Coronavirus - COVID-19

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Mundane Mayhem
Posts: 608
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:04 am
Location: Denver

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

boyyourself wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 2:40 pm
Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 10:38 am
Okay, man. I had a nice lunch conversation a few years back with Ed Herman, who was Noam Chomsky's co-author on Manufacturing Consent. I am well fucking aware of how narratives get shaped, bought, and manipulated. Your tone that you're the only one with your third eye open or whatever is pretty grating.

I'll kindly ask you to never speak about what my mom did or didn't do again.


My tone? You mean after you accused me of being dishonest? Or after you accused me of being ignorant to agriculture Of which I know more about than 99 percent is the worlds population?

Was it you that also accused me of not having compassion or being dumb? I lost track of where it all comes from my apologies.

Anyone who loves or hates me or has know me for more than 5 minutes would laugh in your face at these accusations.

I answered all your questions with encouragement from others and am not the one that starts personal bs And makes assumptions.
I’m not here to offend. Period.

You keep making false assumptions. Period. It’s annoying. Hell you just threw it out there that telluride and Montrose are the same. No worries if you couldn’t actually be more wrong.
So why keep making it personal and making assumptions and lobbing accusations?
I never spoke about your compassion. I also didn't accuse you of being ignorant to agriculture. Nor did I ever call you dumb. Nor did I mention word fucking one about Telluride versus Montrose. I have lived in Colorado since age 4 though, so we could have a nice Colorado conversation if we ever decided to.

What else you got?

Feel free to provide any evidence that I leveled any of those accusations.

The "dishonest" thing was that hypothetically, one cannot (in my opinion) make an honest argument that Dallas's basketball approach isn't riskier than New York's w/r/t spreading COVID-19 (which you hadn't, by that point, so it's hard to say I was calling YOU dishonest). One can very easily make an honest argument that we shouldn't care about that, or the risk is worth it, or individual freedom is more important than the risk assumed by that course of action. See the difference?

I'd say you didn't answer all my questions either, but you're under no obligation to and I don't particularly care anymore.
Last edited by Mundane Mayhem on Fri May 28, 2021 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All it takes is one wicked heart, a pile of money, and a chain of folks just doing their jobs

Mundane Mayhem
Posts: 608
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:04 am
Location: Denver

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

boyyourself wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 2:34 pm
https://www.cpr.org/2021/05/25/covid-me ... -colorado/



Don’t worry you kids we will get to you after, um, well, I’m sure we will get to you at some point. Til then, mask up, get vaxxed, and avoid others until literally everyone complies. It’s that simple.
David Brumbaugh (CMO cited in this article as declaring this state of emergency) seems like an expert I would trust. The lockdowns have been horrible for mental health, no question.

Also David Brumbaugh:

“Children’s Hospital Colorado is excited to welcome adolescents ages 12 and older to our vaccine clinics,” said David Brumbaugh, MD, Chief Medical Officer at Children’s Hospital Colorado. “We encourage everyone to learn about the COVID-19 vaccines and get vaccinated as soon as they are able. The more people who can get vaccinated, the better we can protect our community and get back to some normalcy – and back to life.
All it takes is one wicked heart, a pile of money, and a chain of folks just doing their jobs

Zip City
Posts: 16750
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:59 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Zip City »

boyyourself wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 2:34 pm
https://www.cpr.org/2021/05/25/covid-me ... -colorado/



Don’t worry you kids we will get to you after, um, well, I’m sure we will get to you at some point. Til then, mask up, get vaxxed, and avoid others until literally everyone complies. It’s that simple.
Imagine what a boost to mental health there will be if everyone got vaxxed instead of needlessly dragging this out...
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

boyyourself
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 2:51 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 2:40 pm
Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 10:38 am
Okay, man. I had a nice lunch conversation a few years back with Ed Herman, who was Noam Chomsky's co-author on Manufacturing Consent. I am well fucking aware of how narratives get shaped, bought, and manipulated. Your tone that you're the only one with your third eye open or whatever is pretty grating.

I'll kindly ask you to never speak about what my mom did or didn't do again.


My tone? You mean after you accused me of being dishonest? Or after you accused me of being ignorant to agriculture Of which I know more about than 99 percent is the worlds population?

Was it you that also accused me of not having compassion or being dumb? I lost track of where it all comes from my apologies.

Anyone who loves or hates me or has know me for more than 5 minutes would laugh in your face at these accusations.

I answered all your questions with encouragement from others and am not the one that starts personal bs And makes assumptions.
I’m not here to offend. Period.

You keep making false assumptions. Period. It’s annoying. Hell you just threw it out there that telluride and Montrose are the same. No worries if you couldn’t actually be more wrong.
So why keep making it personal and making assumptions and lobbing accusations?
I never spoke about your compassion. I also didn't accuse you of being ignorant to agriculture. Nor did I ever call you dumb. Nor did I mention word fucking one about Telluride versus Montrose. I have lived in Colorado since age 4 though, so we could have a nice Colorado conversation if we ever decided to.

What else you got?

Feel free to provide any evidence that I leveled any of those accusations.

The "dishonest" thing was that hypothetically, one cannot (in my opinion) make an honest argument that Dallas's basketball approach isn't riskier than New York's w/r/t spreading COVID-19 (which you hadn't, by that point, so it's hard to say I was calling YOU dishonest). One can very easily make an honest argument that we shouldn't care about that, or the risk is worth it, or individual freedom is more important than the risk assumed by that course of action. See the difference?

I'd say you didn't answer all my questions either, but you're under no obligation to and I don't particularly care anymore.



Fair enough and my bad then. I thought we were having nice go between so let’s get back to that.

boyyourself
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Zip City wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 4:06 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 2:34 pm
https://www.cpr.org/2021/05/25/covid-me ... -colorado/



Don’t worry you kids we will get to you after, um, well, I’m sure we will get to you at some point. Til then, mask up, get vaxxed, and avoid others until literally everyone complies. It’s that simple.
Imagine what a boost to mental health there will be if everyone got vaxxed instead of needlessly dragging this out...

If everyone would just.......... deep zip.

Zip City
Posts: 16750
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:59 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Zip City »

boyyourself wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 4:47 pm
Zip City wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 4:06 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 2:34 pm
https://www.cpr.org/2021/05/25/covid-me ... -colorado/



Don’t worry you kids we will get to you after, um, well, I’m sure we will get to you at some point. Til then, mask up, get vaxxed, and avoid others until literally everyone complies. It’s that simple.
Imagine what a boost to mental health there will be if everyone got vaxxed instead of needlessly dragging this out...

If everyone would just.......... deep zip.
Deep? Nope. Simple? You bet. Everything you’re wishing for could happen quickly with vaccines, so it’s the one thing you won’t do.
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

User avatar
Flea
Posts: 3986
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Location: Underneath the veneer

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Flea »

boyyourself wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 8:03 am
I’m against industry and factory farming and wanted to do something about it myself. So I did.
This is an honest, straight-forward, no bullshit-no gotcha question: I would like to hear about your farm. Can you provide details? I assume you concentrate on pork based on your previous statements, but I could be very very wrong. What livestock/crops do you produce? How small or large is your operation? I would really like to hear of your animal husbandry philosophy, particularly in regards to feeding, housing, and environmental enrichment. Do you slaughter your own product, or contract that out? What steps do you take to ensure that your animals are treated and managed humanely?
Now it's dark.

Mundane Mayhem
Posts: 608
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:04 am
Location: Denver

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

Well I suppose this was inevitable.
All it takes is one wicked heart, a pile of money, and a chain of folks just doing their jobs

boyyourself
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Flea wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 6:57 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 8:03 am
I’m against industry and factory farming and wanted to do something about it myself. So I did.
This is an honest, straight-forward, no bullshit-no gotcha question: I would like to hear about your farm. Can you provide details? I assume you concentrate on pork based on your previous statements, but I could be very very wrong. What livestock/crops do you produce? How small or large is your operation? I would really like to hear of your animal husbandry philosophy, particularly in regards to feeding, housing, and environmental enrichment. Do you slaughter your own product, or contract that out? What steps do you take to ensure that your animals are treated and managed humanely?
I’ve experienced different styles of farming.
Grew up on thousands of acres running cattle, growing wheat and corn. I liked working with Cattle but hated the rest. So I ran off to college then the mountains.
Then I started looking into regenerative practices until I wanted to try my self.
Bought 200 acres and had laying chickens and pigs
. Sold that place for a million reasons and now have 3 acres which I’ve spent the last couple years.

It’s all based on respect. For the land, the animal, and the consumer.
And in order to respect an animal you must keep it mobile. And in order to respect land you must give it a chance to heal, but you can’t leave it alone or it degenerates, disturbance is required for growth——-the game to play is how much disturbance. Too much and you kill the soil. Not disturbance and you get overgrowth off brambles and weeds and thorn bushes. So with whatever animal it is, for me in the last few years it’s been chickens and pigs on a relatively small scale, frequent rotation is key.
I’m referring to having animals out on grass so really the goal is growing grass to provide as much forage as possible to the animal. Grown right there using sunlight, water, and with proper animal management, the soil gets all the nutrients it needs via animal manure and urine.
Management is key and requires human involvement.

Keeping in mind that the goal is carbon neutral.
So obviously trying to be minimize fossil fuel use and your practices and what animals we are talking about will have a drastic effect on fossil fuel usage. THE number one lie told by both producers and consumers is fossil fuel usage. I’ve seen it myself because I grew up growing subsidized grain and my family still does. You really don’t have to keep track of fuel usage because your books are already cooked. And it’s a lot of fuel. Grain is an annual. You have to plant and harvest every year. This requires fuel and expensive depreciating infrastructure. Plus amend the soil. That usually happens with chemicals and or manure trucked in from feedlots. Cropping is so fucked ecologically and terrible for the soil and not so coincidentally not good for frequent human consumption.
We are keeping in mind the sake of the health of the planet, for this conversation, and for real.
So the sustainability of your diet is based on how much fossil fuel it took to get that food on your plate. For consumers it’s not that they lie about fuel so much as they don’t care or think about it.
Eating tofu which is drive from soy, because you think that eating meat bad for the planet (true for confinement animals) likely has no clue what it takes to grow soy, or the ecological degredation that occurs or the animal displacement that happens. Not to mention the health drawback of soy.

Which animal we are talking about matters a lot here when talking about grain and fuel. Chickens and pigs are omnivores meaning they can eat about anything including grain. You don’t have to feed pigs grain but they’d grow too slowly for it to be a viable on any sort of scale. They also love to forage and that’s why it’s key to have them on pasture or in the woods and ingesting green material which is key to healthy digestion.
Right now I have about 2 usable acres (technically it’s rented out right now and I’m taking a break to be in Telluride full time where my daughter lives because I couldn’t convince her to quit school and farm full time so I’m on a break for now)
But here’s what I did last year....
I raised 15 pigs and 50 chickens for meat. Had a small garden with kale, beets, and potatoes.

The frequency in which I rotated the pigs was determined by a set amount of feed, when the feed was gone it was time to move them and that’s how I kept track of the impact I had on each paddock. So as they grew they were rotated more frequently because the amount of food I gave them remained constant and disappeared faster. Make sense?

This is accomplished by using electric fence or in my case electric netting. They are easy to train to electric fence and once they are they are butter in your hands to move around. The feed I used was non gmo and local corn with whole roasted soybean so it gives em something to chew. Always fresh clean water. Always shade.
No antibiotics. And frequent rotation also creates a parasite free environment because you leave the host behind.
Me and a friend butchered two pigs right there on the property and the rest got sent to processing which sucked after doing it myself.
I will say that some meals I had on my farm last year that were only pork that I raised, harvested, butchered, and cooked myself, combined with potatoes, beets. Kale, onions, and greens, was the best thing that ever happened to my jowels and that lifestyle beckons me.
This is graphic but you asked about the humanity———I shot them with a 22 magnum. Both clean shots. The first time wasn’t super smooth because the one I had chosen new it was chosen. They were used to me so she wasn’t scared of me but she knew. I scattered feed in a line and got pretty much got a point blank shot between the eyes as she ate. Scared the shit out of the others and they scattered but got her out and they went right back to eating. Trusted me again right away.
The next one went differently. I spent two days meditating before it was time to take the life of something I love and respect. I walked into their paddock with a calm that I had never experienced before or since and I don’t know how else to put it, it just felt right. Not good or bad or happy or sad. Taking a life to feed life and make room for more life. And directly connected to the consequences of my own decision making, which is as gratifying as anything though gratification is not the goal.
This pig was just chilling too. Literally laying down and not caring that the end of my rifle was almost touch it’s head. To me that’s because of the love and respect I gave that fucker his whole life.
The rest i took in to a processing facility and that worked out but it’s not the same. Something awesome about never loading an animal on to a trailer at the end of its life.
But they knocked back a few Hamms a piece and some ice cream as their last meal and life goes on.
Good work guys.

I also raised 50 chickens for meat. Never done that. They were inside for their first 3 weeks then moved out on to the pasture in a bottomless 10x12 pen that was strurdy enough to keep out predators yet portable enough to move no problem. Which I did every single day for 5 weeks. What a true joy to watch em line up in the front of the pen every morning and walk along as I move their pen with a dolly——-to fresh pasture. Fresh grass. Fresh bugs. Away from yesterday’s manure that you so thankfully left on my grass. This respects the chickenness of the chicken. This would take about 5 minutes total a day. This couldn’t be more different than a confinement facility.
I will never do this again but I butchered them all myself because I wanted to dial in every aspect of the process.
Tastiest chicken ever. And the bones were dense as hell and almost impossible to snap. Factory chicken bones are grossly brittle.
Portable mobile infrastructure is key in this style of farming.

These are amazing ways to raise pigs and chickens, and people love chicken and pork, but they require grain supplementation which jacks up the carbon footprint (still much better than confinement, obviously.)
But to really get down to raising meat without fossil fuel we are talking about grass fed grass finished beef. And if we imagine worst case scenario which is running out of fossil fuel, then say bye bye to grain cropping and consequently bye bye to chickens and pigs. (True worst case is running out of water in which case we all die)
Luckily with sunshine and water you can grow grass. Herbivores eat the grass. It ferments in their stomachs and gets converted to meat. That’s your carbon neutral meat source.
Daily cattle moves is ideal but not paramount.
Massaging and caressing the land with cattle using electric fence which super portable and easy to set up. Never over graze. Never feed lot.
Medicine is not required in this scenario. This produces a naturally healthy cow. After all we are mimicking migratory patterns Of natures herbivores (just like on the Serengeti which has dick high grass for a reason), it’s all we got since the Buffalo left.
Even better If can follow the cattle with laying hens that scratch out the larvae and spread the manure——-pasture sanitation occurs with eggs as a consequence.
These practices improve the ecology and attract wildlife. Good soil means earthworms and bugs therefore tons of other life. No Round Up required in this scenario either. (Covid sticks to round up)

And I haven’t tried this but would like to—— I know people that feed their cattle in a hay shed
All winter. They shit and piss 50 lbs a day and if you layer wood chips and hay all winter to soak up the shit and piss, you have yourself a nutrient dense carbonaceous diaper that is one step from being compost to spread back onto your field.
If you also layer your hay and wood chips with corn, it starts fermenting. Then you put a few pigs in there and they turn your compost for you by rooting out every kernel of corn in their. Now it’s aerobic and ready to be spread back into your pasture in the spring Sequestering carbon and producing an abundance of nutrient dense food at the same time.

boyyourself
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 11:28 am
Well I suppose this was inevitable.



Hey at least we got an all time doozie from isbell
Out of the deal——-he called them asshats. Aaaahhhhhahahaha. Nice Jason.
Geez if everyone’s thoughts and opinions lined up with artists and entertainers we’d all be better off for sure. Yeah right.
I wonder how isbell feels about the Colorado Mennonites? None of them that I know are Vaxxing and that’s a large community.

Maybe we need isbell to come down herd and talk some sense into them. “Hey guys I know that you are family oriented, can build your own houses, make your own cheeses, basically sustain yourselves on every level, oh and you seem really sweet and healthy, overall respectable and self reliant humans, but you guys are a bunch of ass hats for not getting vaxxed.”
These Mennonites don’t know how cool east Nashville is so the message might not be well received.

Mundane Mayhem
Posts: 608
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:04 am
Location: Denver

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

boyyourself wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 12:19 pm
Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 11:28 am
Well I suppose this was inevitable.



Hey at least we got an all time doozie from isbell
Out of the deal——-he called them asshats. Aaaahhhhhahahaha. Nice Jason.
Geez if everyone’s thoughts and opinions lined up with artists and entertainers we’d all be better off for sure. Yeah right.
I wonder how isbell feels about the Colorado Mennonites? None of them that I know are Vaxxing and that’s a large community.

Maybe we need isbell to come down herd and talk some sense into them. “Hey guys I know that you are family oriented, can build your own houses, make your own cheeses, basically sustain yourselves on every level, oh and you seem really sweet and healthy, overall respectable and self reliant humans, but you guys are a bunch of ass hats for not getting vaxxed.”
These Mennonites don’t know how cool east Nashville is so the message might not be well received.
Are the Mennonites comparing themselves to victims of the Holocaust?
All it takes is one wicked heart, a pile of money, and a chain of folks just doing their jobs

boyyourself
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 12:22 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 12:19 pm
Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 11:28 am
Well I suppose this was inevitable.



Hey at least we got an all time doozie from isbell
Out of the deal——-he called them asshats. Aaaahhhhhahahaha. Nice Jason.
Geez if everyone’s thoughts and opinions lined up with artists and entertainers we’d all be better off for sure. Yeah right.
I wonder how isbell feels about the Colorado Mennonites? None of them that I know are Vaxxing and that’s a large community.

Maybe we need isbell to come down herd and talk some sense into them. “Hey guys I know that you are family oriented, can build your own houses, make your own cheeses, basically sustain yourselves on every level, oh and you seem really sweet and healthy, overall respectable and self reliant humans, but you guys are a bunch of ass hats for not getting vaxxed.”
These Mennonites don’t know how cool east Nashville is so the message might not be well received.
Are the Mennonites comparing themselves to victims of the Holocaust?


I never said the lady wasn’t a douche.

boyyourself
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Why do most artists and entertainers all feel the same about Covid? And does most of our rural population feel the opposites?

Anyone care to try and answer that?

boyyourself
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Why do most rural residents not feel that way?

Zip City
Posts: 16750
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:59 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Zip City »

boyyourself wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 12:33 pm
Why do most rural residents not feel that way?
Trump

Q
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

boyyourself
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Zip City wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 12:50 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 12:33 pm
Why do most rural residents not feel that way?
Trump

Q



I was asking the adults in the room.

Zip City
Posts: 16750
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:59 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Zip City »

boyyourself wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:03 pm
Zip City wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 12:50 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 12:33 pm
Why do most rural residents not feel that way?
Trump

Q



I was asking the adults in the room.
Don’t ask questions if you are t going to like the answers
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

boyyourself
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

So because of trump rural residents don’t feel the same as urbanites? That would define a stupid anawer. So what would your answer be pre 2016? Don’t hurt yourself.

boyyourself
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Zip City wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:15 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:03 pm
Zip City wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 12:50 pm


Trump

Q



I was asking the adults in the room.
Don’t ask questions if you are t going to like the answers
Didn’t say I didn’t like the answer. I said it was stupid and that I’d rather talk to adults.

Zip City
Posts: 16750
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:59 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Zip City »

Rural voters overwhelmingly supported Trump, who filled their heads with conspiracies and doubts about COVID, masks and vaccines.
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

boyyourself
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Zip City wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:48 pm
Rural voters overwhelmingly supported Trump, who filled their heads with conspiracies and doubts about COVID, masks and vaccines.


And they bought it because they are dumb.
Now shut up kids!!!! Biden and Fauci are talking and I’m gonna take their word as gold!! And if you don’t then it’s because I ain’t raisin you right!!! Now get your ass back inside!!! Who do you think you are boy? Some sort of free thinking Neanderthal nature lover that wants to be independent of the system and in charge of your own health?
Wash your damn hands and put a mask on unless you’re eating cereal that we got from a store!!!
And turn it down goddamn it!!!

There I completed your answer so it’s understandable.

beantownbubba
Posts: 19747
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by beantownbubba »

boyyourself wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 12:28 pm
Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 12:22 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 12:19 pm





Hey at least we got an all time doozie from isbell
Out of the deal——-he called them asshats. Aaaahhhhhahahaha. Nice Jason.
Geez if everyone’s thoughts and opinions lined up with artists and entertainers we’d all be better off for sure. Yeah right.
I wonder how isbell feels about the Colorado Mennonites? None of them that I know are Vaxxing and that’s a large community.

Maybe we need isbell to come down herd and talk some sense into them. “Hey guys I know that you are family oriented, can build your own houses, make your own cheeses, basically sustain yourselves on every level, oh and you seem really sweet and healthy, overall respectable and self reliant humans, but you guys are a bunch of ass hats for not getting vaxxed.”
These Mennonites don’t know how cool east Nashville is so the message might not be well received.
Are the Mennonites comparing themselves to victims of the Holocaust?


Artists and entertainers are entitled to their opinions same as everyone else. Except for the few who make themselves actually knowledgeable about an issue(s) and the truly rare bird who actually has insightful things to say on a regular basis, the real question is why anybody cares what they have to say or listens to them. But this is an old, boring discussion that's not even on point.

Assuming you're quoting Jason correctly, the only thing Jason did wrong was that he called these fucking morons merely "asshats" as if that term could come close to describing completely outrageous behavior that is bad history, an incorrect analogy, evidence of serious mental deficiency, obnoxious, frivolous and insulting as hell while desecrating and minimizing the deaths and memory of millions of people.

I'm not a violent person. I haven't been in a fistfight since 5th grade. But I could see myself getting into it if I saw someone wearing one of those stars. Just to be clear this has nothing to do w/ urban v. rural, white collar v. blue collar or farmer, Trump supporter v. Biden or Bernie supporter or anything else but specific people acting outrageously, obnoxiously, horribly and totally without a clue and I take it fucking personally.

Bringing up the Mennonites is completely off point. Like, totally irrelevant. The issue here is not people choosing not to vaccinate, the issue is people who refuse to vaccinate choosing to compare themselves to Jews forced by the Nazis to wear yellow stars under some of the most horrific circumstances in the history of the world, and that's not an exaggeration.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

boyyourself
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 2:46 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 12:28 pm
Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 12:22 pm


Are the Mennonites comparing themselves to victims of the Holocaust?


Artists and entertainers are entitled to their opinions same as everyone else. Except for the few who make themselves actually knowledgeable about an issue(s) and the truly rare bird who actually has insightful things to say on a regular basis, the real question is why anybody cares what they have to say or listens to them. But this is an old, boring discussion that's not even on point.

Assuming you're quoting Jason correctly, the only thing Jason did wrong was that he called these fucking morons merely "asshats" as if that term could come close to describing completely outrageous behavior that is bad history, an incorrect analogy, evidence of serious mental deficiency, obnoxious, frivolous and insulting as hell while desecrating and minimizing the deaths and memory of millions of people.

I'm not a violent person. I haven't been in a fistfight since 5th grade. But I could see myself getting into it if I saw someone wearing one of those stars. Just to be clear this has nothing to do w/ urban v. rural, white collar v. blue collar or farmer, Trump supporter v. Biden or Bernie supporter or anything else but specific people acting outrageously, obnoxiously, horribly and totally without a clue and I take it fucking personally.

Bringing up the Mennonites is completely off point. Like, totally irrelevant. The issue here is not people choosing not to vaccinate, the issue is people who refuse to vaccinate choosing to compare themselves to Jews forced by the Nazis to wear yellow stars under some of the most horrific circumstances in the history of the world, and that's not an exaggeration.


SomeGood points. And I mentioned the lady was a douche.
But you’re gonna be the Karen of what’s a relevant discussion and what’s not?
Oh and my points are irrelevant?
Oh and you’re gonna throw hands at someone for what they wear?

Good talk.

boyyourself
Posts: 753
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 2:46 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 12:28 pm
Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 12:22 pm


Are the Mennonites comparing themselves to victims of the Holocaust?


Artists and entertainers are entitled to their opinions same as everyone else. Except for the few who make themselves actually knowledgeable about an issue(s) and the truly rare bird who actually has insightful things to say on a regular basis, the real question is why anybody cares what they have to say or listens to them. But this is an old, boring discussion that's not even on point.

Assuming you're quoting Jason correctly, the only thing Jason did wrong was that he called these fucking morons merely "asshats" as if that term could come close to describing completely outrageous behavior that is bad history, an incorrect analogy, evidence of serious mental deficiency, obnoxious, frivolous and insulting as hell while desecrating and minimizing the deaths and memory of millions of people.

I'm not a violent person. I haven't been in a fistfight since 5th grade. But I could see myself getting into it if I saw someone wearing one of those stars. Just to be clear this has nothing to do w/ urban v. rural, white collar v. blue collar or farmer, Trump supporter v. Biden or Bernie supporter or anything else but specific people acting outrageously, obnoxiously, horribly and totally without a clue and I take it fucking personally.

Bringing up the Mennonites is completely off point. Like, totally irrelevant. The issue here is not people choosing not to vaccinate, the issue is people who refuse to vaccinate choosing to compare themselves to Jews forced by the Nazis to wear yellow stars under some of the most horrific circumstances in the history of the world, and that's not an exaggeration.
Forgive me for being so shallow but the tone of your response is what irks about isbell and other Hollywooders and even the president——
Which is that your right and I’m wrong because your smarter than me. And then something about how it’s because I’m brainwashed or not well Informed and how the blue team has a lot of work to do because apparently diversity exists and that’s apparently a real shocker to many.
We need everyone thinking alike!!!!
All that bugs me. That’s it. I wasn’t trying to minimize how fucked up hateful people like this lady are. But really she’s just bored. Bitch needs to get some chickens. Apologies due the name calling.

Zip City
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Zip City »

boyyourself wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:56 pm
Zip City wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:48 pm
Rural voters overwhelmingly supported Trump, who filled their heads with conspiracies and doubts about COVID, masks and vaccines.


And they bought it because they are dumb.
Now shut up kids!!!! Biden and Fauci are talking and I’m gonna take their word as gold!! And if you don’t then it’s because I ain’t raisin you right!!! Now get your ass back inside!!! Who do you think you are boy? Some sort of free thinking Neanderthal nature lover that wants to be independent of the system and in charge of your own health?
Wash your damn hands and put a mask on unless you’re eating cereal that we got from a store!!!
And turn it down goddamn it!!!

There I completed your answer so it’s understandable.
Jesus, you’re a prick. Fuck off, I’m done with you.
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

boyyourself
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Zip City wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 3:29 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:56 pm
Zip City wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:48 pm
Rural voters overwhelmingly supported Trump, who filled their heads with conspiracies and doubts about COVID, masks and vaccines.


And they bought it because they are dumb.
Now shut up kids!!!! Biden and Fauci are talking and I’m gonna take their word as gold!! And if you don’t then it’s because I ain’t raisin you right!!! Now get your ass back inside!!! Who do you think you are boy? Some sort of free thinking Neanderthal nature lover that wants to be independent of the system and in charge of your own health?
Wash your damn hands and put a mask on unless you’re eating cereal that we got from a store!!!
And turn it down goddamn it!!!

There I completed your answer so it’s understandable.
Jesus, you’re a prick. Fuck off, I’m done with you.



Promise?

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Flea
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Flea »

boyyourself wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 12:09 pm
Flea wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 6:57 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 8:03 am
I’m against industry and factory farming and wanted to do something about it myself. So I did.
This is an honest, straight-forward, no bullshit-no gotcha question: I would like to hear about your farm. Can you provide details? I assume you concentrate on pork based on your previous statements, but I could be very very wrong. What livestock/crops do you produce? How small or large is your operation? I would really like to hear of your animal husbandry philosophy, particularly in regards to feeding, housing, and environmental enrichment. Do you slaughter your own product, or contract that out? What steps do you take to ensure that your animals are treated and managed humanely?
I’ve experienced different styles of farming.
Grew up on thousands of acres running cattle, growing wheat and corn. I liked working with Cattle but hated the rest. So I ran off to college then the mountains.
Then I started looking into regenerative practices until I wanted to try my self.
Bought 200 acres and had laying chickens and pigs
. Sold that place for a million reasons and now have 3 acres which I’ve spent the last couple years.

It’s all based on respect. For the land, the animal, and the consumer.
And in order to respect an animal you must keep it mobile. And in order to respect land you must give it a chance to heal, but you can’t leave it alone or it degenerates, disturbance is required for growth——-the game to play is how much disturbance. Too much and you kill the soil. Not disturbance and you get overgrowth off brambles and weeds and thorn bushes. So with whatever animal it is, for me in the last few years it’s been chickens and pigs on a relatively small scale, frequent rotation is key.
I’m referring to having animals out on grass so really the goal is growing grass to provide as much forage as possible to the animal. Grown right there using sunlight, water, and with proper animal management, the soil gets all the nutrients it needs via animal manure and urine.
Management is key and requires human involvement.

Keeping in mind that the goal is carbon neutral.
So obviously trying to be minimize fossil fuel use and your practices and what animals we are talking about will have a drastic effect on fossil fuel usage. THE number one lie told by both producers and consumers is fossil fuel usage. I’ve seen it myself because I grew up growing subsidized grain and my family still does. You really don’t have to keep track of fuel usage because your books are already cooked. And it’s a lot of fuel. Grain is an annual. You have to plant and harvest every year. This requires fuel and expensive depreciating infrastructure. Plus amend the soil. That usually happens with chemicals and or manure trucked in from feedlots. Cropping is so fucked ecologically and terrible for the soil and not so coincidentally not good for frequent human consumption.
We are keeping in mind the sake of the health of the planet, for this conversation, and for real.
So the sustainability of your diet is based on how much fossil fuel it took to get that food on your plate. For consumers it’s not that they lie about fuel so much as they don’t care or think about it.
Eating tofu which is drive from soy, because you think that eating meat bad for the planet (true for confinement animals) likely has no clue what it takes to grow soy, or the ecological degredation that occurs or the animal displacement that happens. Not to mention the health drawback of soy.

Which animal we are talking about matters a lot here when talking about grain and fuel. Chickens and pigs are omnivores meaning they can eat about anything including grain. You don’t have to feed pigs grain but they’d grow too slowly for it to be a viable on any sort of scale. They also love to forage and that’s why it’s key to have them on pasture or in the woods and ingesting green material which is key to healthy digestion.
Right now I have about 2 usable acres (technically it’s rented out right now and I’m taking a break to be in Telluride full time where my daughter lives because I couldn’t convince her to quit school and farm full time so I’m on a break for now)
But here’s what I did last year....
I raised 15 pigs and 50 chickens for meat. Had a small garden with kale, beets, and potatoes.

The frequency in which I rotated the pigs was determined by a set amount of feed, when the feed was gone it was time to move them and that’s how I kept track of the impact I had on each paddock. So as they grew they were rotated more frequently because the amount of food I gave them remained constant and disappeared faster. Make sense?

This is accomplished by using electric fence or in my case electric netting. They are easy to train to electric fence and once they are they are butter in your hands to move around. The feed I used was non gmo and local corn with whole roasted soybean so it gives em something to chew. Always fresh clean water. Always shade.
No antibiotics. And frequent rotation also creates a parasite free environment because you leave the host behind.
Me and a friend butchered two pigs right there on the property and the rest got sent to processing which sucked after doing it myself.
I will say that some meals I had on my farm last year that were only pork that I raised, harvested, butchered, and cooked myself, combined with potatoes, beets. Kale, onions, and greens, was the best thing that ever happened to my jowels and that lifestyle beckons me.
This is graphic but you asked about the humanity———I shot them with a 22 magnum. Both clean shots. The first time wasn’t super smooth because the one I had chosen new it was chosen. They were used to me so she wasn’t scared of me but she knew. I scattered feed in a line and got pretty much got a point blank shot between the eyes as she ate. Scared the shit out of the others and they scattered but got her out and they went right back to eating. Trusted me again right away.
The next one went differently. I spent two days meditating before it was time to take the life of something I love and respect. I walked into their paddock with a calm that I had never experienced before or since and I don’t know how else to put it, it just felt right. Not good or bad or happy or sad. Taking a life to feed life and make room for more life. And directly connected to the consequences of my own decision making, which is as gratifying as anything though gratification is not the goal.
This pig was just chilling too. Literally laying down and not caring that the end of my rifle was almost touch it’s head. To me that’s because of the love and respect I gave that fucker his whole life.
The rest i took in to a processing facility and that worked out but it’s not the same. Something awesome about never loading an animal on to a trailer at the end of its life.
But they knocked back a few Hamms a piece and some ice cream as their last meal and life goes on.
Good work guys.

I also raised 50 chickens for meat. Never done that. They were inside for their first 3 weeks then moved out on to the pasture in a bottomless 10x12 pen that was strurdy enough to keep out predators yet portable enough to move no problem. Which I did every single day for 5 weeks. What a true joy to watch em line up in the front of the pen every morning and walk along as I move their pen with a dolly——-to fresh pasture. Fresh grass. Fresh bugs. Away from yesterday’s manure that you so thankfully left on my grass. This respects the chickenness of the chicken. This would take about 5 minutes total a day. This couldn’t be more different than a confinement facility.
I will never do this again but I butchered them all myself because I wanted to dial in every aspect of the process.
Tastiest chicken ever. And the bones were dense as hell and almost impossible to snap. Factory chicken bones are grossly brittle.
Portable mobile infrastructure is key in this style of farming.

These are amazing ways to raise pigs and chickens, and people love chicken and pork, but they require grain supplementation which jacks up the carbon footprint (still much better than confinement, obviously.)
But to really get down to raising meat without fossil fuel we are talking about grass fed grass finished beef. And if we imagine worst case scenario which is running out of fossil fuel, then say bye bye to grain cropping and consequently bye bye to chickens and pigs. (True worst case is running out of water in which case we all die)
Luckily with sunshine and water you can grow grass. Herbivores eat the grass. It ferments in their stomachs and gets converted to meat. That’s your carbon neutral meat source.
Daily cattle moves is ideal but not paramount.
Massaging and caressing the land with cattle using electric fence which super portable and easy to set up. Never over graze. Never feed lot.
Medicine is not required in this scenario. This produces a naturally healthy cow. After all we are mimicking migratory patterns Of natures herbivores (just like on the Serengeti which has dick high grass for a reason), it’s all we got since the Buffalo left.
Even better If can follow the cattle with laying hens that scratch out the larvae and spread the manure——-pasture sanitation occurs with eggs as a consequence.
These practices improve the ecology and attract wildlife. Good soil means earthworms and bugs therefore tons of other life. No Round Up required in this scenario either. (Covid sticks to round up)

And I haven’t tried this but would like to—— I know people that feed their cattle in a hay shed
All winter. They shit and piss 50 lbs a day and if you layer wood chips and hay all winter to soak up the shit and piss, you have yourself a nutrient dense carbonaceous diaper that is one step from being compost to spread back onto your field.
If you also layer your hay and wood chips with corn, it starts fermenting. Then you put a few pigs in there and they turn your compost for you by rooting out every kernel of corn in their. Now it’s aerobic and ready to be spread back into your pasture in the spring Sequestering carbon and producing an abundance of nutrient dense food at the same time.
Thank you. I feel I know you much better.
Now it's dark.

boyyourself
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Well framed questions

beantownbubba
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Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by beantownbubba »

boyyourself wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 2:58 pm
Oh and you’re gonna throw hands at someone for what they wear?
Are you actually suggesting that the selling/wearing of stars as described in the link is a fashion statement and not a political statement? I suspect that will come as a great surprise to a lot of people, many of whom are wearing those stars.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

boyyourself
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 10:26 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 2:58 pm
Oh and you’re gonna throw hands at someone for what they wear?
Are you actually suggesting that the selling/wearing of stars as described in the link is a fashion statement and not a political statement? I suspect that will come as a great surprise to a lot of people, many of whom are wearing those stars.

I don’t care what kind of statement someone is trying to Make. I’m just saying I don’t understand wanting to throw hands over something someone’s wearing.

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