Coronavirus - COVID-19

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Mundane Mayhem
Posts: 608
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:04 am
Location: Denver

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:49 pm
Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:49 pm
willfully unvaccinated people are freeloading on the rest of us. That's fine...
I assume you mean "fine" in the sense of "so be it" or "there's nothing I can do about it," which is, ummm, fine, but I just want to say that freeloading is not fine.
Fair. Yes, I was basically throwing my hands up and saying "c'est la vie," but I agree it wasn't phrased well. I also do not think it is "fine," in an ethical sense. Edited accordingly. My poor phrasing can live on in these quoted messages.
All it takes is one wicked heart, a pile of money, and a chain of folks just doing their jobs

boyyourself
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

:arrow: gh
Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:49 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:35 pm

I’m not anti vax nor am I denying the science. It’s basically the same as I feel about the lockdowns which is that it should’ve been a choice. It’s not for everyone. Same as the vaccine. If you want it then go for it. All about it. Just don’t think it’s someone everyone needs to take. And the fact is plenty won’t. Let’s deal with that. Shaking a fist at them, us, isn’t helping. And if you’re vaxxed then aren’t you good? Then I honestly don’t see why you would worry about what others do.
This thread contains pages and pages of people explaining quite eloquently why this way of thinking simply doesn't apply to communicable and contagious diseases. In the context of controlling a virus that spreads via aerosol and mutates at random, there is really no such thing as making a decision that only affects yourself. Maybe if you live on a self-sufficient farm and never have to venture to town for commerce or entertainment. Seems that describes such a vanishingly small number of people that it isn't really relevant from a policymaking standpoint.

There are also pages and pages of people trying to meet you halfway on the importance of wellness and health, but pointing out that that isn't particularly relevant to this particular discussion about a public health emergency. If my house is on fire and you come to my door lecturing me about how I didn't fireproof my property well enough, I'm gonna be a little confused and probably pissed off. I'd much rather you show up with a hose.

As for not being "anti-vax"...does it matter? At this point, nearly* everyone who is refusing a vaccine that is free, safe, and widely available might as well be "anti-vax," at least in terms of the overall impact on public health. If you don't trust the US healthcare establishment, that's fine. Epidemiologists all over the world are virtually unanimous on this point. Vaccines work. They are safe. For countries that have failed to control the virus by other means (e.g., actual lockdowns with measures to ameliorate the economic fallout), they are the easiest way back to normalcy.

At this point, enough people are vaccinated that we're unlikely to descend back into the darkest time of the pandemic. We know more about how to treat people who do get sick. Our health system is unlikely to be overwhelmed moving forward. But make no mistake: willfully unvaccinated people are freeloading on the rest of us. That's their choice and they are allowed to make it (thanks for the edit, BTB), but let's call a spade a spade.

*Folks who have challenges around transportation, access, good information delivered in a language/format they can understand, or an inability to take time off work for possible side effects being the notable exceptions.


I guess all you’re left to do is shake a fist at society for not being as “ethical” aa you. Let me know how that works out.

Mundane Mayhem
Posts: 608
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:04 am
Location: Denver

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

boyyourself wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:09 am
:arrow: gh
Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:49 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:35 pm

I’m not anti vax nor am I denying the science. It’s basically the same as I feel about the lockdowns which is that it should’ve been a choice. It’s not for everyone. Same as the vaccine. If you want it then go for it. All about it. Just don’t think it’s someone everyone needs to take. And the fact is plenty won’t. Let’s deal with that. Shaking a fist at them, us, isn’t helping. And if you’re vaxxed then aren’t you good? Then I honestly don’t see why you would worry about what others do.
This thread contains pages and pages of people explaining quite eloquently why this way of thinking simply doesn't apply to communicable and contagious diseases. In the context of controlling a virus that spreads via aerosol and mutates at random, there is really no such thing as making a decision that only affects yourself. Maybe if you live on a self-sufficient farm and never have to venture to town for commerce or entertainment. Seems that describes such a vanishingly small number of people that it isn't really relevant from a policymaking standpoint.

There are also pages and pages of people trying to meet you halfway on the importance of wellness and health, but pointing out that that isn't particularly relevant to this particular discussion about a public health emergency. If my house is on fire and you come to my door lecturing me about how I didn't fireproof my property well enough, I'm gonna be a little confused and probably pissed off. I'd much rather you show up with a hose.

As for not being "anti-vax"...does it matter? At this point, nearly* everyone who is refusing a vaccine that is free, safe, and widely available might as well be "anti-vax," at least in terms of the overall impact on public health. If you don't trust the US healthcare establishment, that's fine. Epidemiologists all over the world are virtually unanimous on this point. Vaccines work. They are safe. For countries that have failed to control the virus by other means (e.g., actual lockdowns with measures to ameliorate the economic fallout), they are the easiest way back to normalcy.

At this point, enough people are vaccinated that we're unlikely to descend back into the darkest time of the pandemic. We know more about how to treat people who do get sick. Our health system is unlikely to be overwhelmed moving forward. But make no mistake: willfully unvaccinated people are freeloading on the rest of us. That's their choice and they are allowed to make it (thanks for the edit, BTB), but let's call a spade a spade.

*Folks who have challenges around transportation, access, good information delivered in a language/format they can understand, or an inability to take time off work for possible side effects being the notable exceptions.


I guess all you’re left to do is shake a fist at society for not being as “ethical” aa you. Let me know how that works out.
Not engaging with the substance? That’s alright. Keep shaking your fist at Fauci and pretending you’re not doing exactly what you accuse everyone else of doing w/r/t Trump. Let me know how that works out for you.
All it takes is one wicked heart, a pile of money, and a chain of folks just doing their jobs

boyyourself
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

boyyourself wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:09 am
:arrow: gh
Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:49 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:35 pm

I’m not anti vax nor am I denying the science. It’s basically the same as I feel about the lockdowns which is that it should’ve been a choice. It’s not for everyone. Same as the vaccine. If you want it then go for it. All about it. Just don’t think it’s someone everyone needs to take. And the fact is plenty won’t. Let’s deal with that. Shaking a fist at them, us, isn’t helping. And if you’re vaxxed then aren’t you good? Then I honestly don’t see why you would worry about what others do.
This thread contains pages and pages of people explaining quite eloquently why this way of thinking simply doesn't apply to communicable and contagious diseases. In the context of controlling a virus that spreads via aerosol and mutates at random, there is really no such thing as making a decision that only affects yourself. Maybe if you live on a self-sufficient farm and never have to venture to town for commerce or entertainment. Seems that describes such a vanishingly small number of people that it isn't really relevant from a policymaking standpoint.

There are also pages and pages of people trying to meet you halfway on the importance of wellness and health, but pointing out that that isn't particularly relevant to this particular discussion about a public health emergency. If my house is on fire and you come to my door lecturing me about how I didn't fireproof my property well enough, I'm gonna be a little confused and probably pissed off. I'd much rather you show up with a hose.

As for not being "anti-vax"...does it matter? At this point, nearly* everyone who is refusing a vaccine that is free, safe, and widely available might as well be "anti-vax," at least in terms of the overall impact on public health. If you don't trust the US healthcare establishment, that's fine. Epidemiologists all over the world are virtually unanimous on this point. Vaccines work. They are safe. For countries that have failed to control the virus by other means (e.g., actual lockdowns with measures to ameliorate the economic fallout), they are the easiest way back to normalcy.

At this point, enough people are vaccinated that we're unlikely to descend back into the darkest time of the pandemic. We know more about how to treat people who do get sick. Our health system is unlikely to be overwhelmed moving forward. But make no mistake: willfully unvaccinated people are freeloading on the rest of us. That's their choice and they are allowed to make it (thanks for the edit, BTB), but let's call a spade a spade.

*Folks who have challenges around transportation, access, good information delivered in a language/format they can understand, or an inability to take time off work for possible side effects being the notable exceptions.


I guess all you’re left to do is shake a fist at society for not being as “ethical” aa you. Let me know how that works out.



I appreciate the points your trying to make. And the conversation. We are just so far apart on so many things. I think that’s perfectly fine. But it confounds me to basically be called unethical and non compassionate. Is that not what you’re doing? Just making sure.

Mundane Mayhem
Posts: 608
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Location: Denver

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

boyyourself wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:58 am
boyyourself wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:09 am
:arrow: gh
Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:49 pm


This thread contains pages and pages of people explaining quite eloquently why this way of thinking simply doesn't apply to communicable and contagious diseases. In the context of controlling a virus that spreads via aerosol and mutates at random, there is really no such thing as making a decision that only affects yourself. Maybe if you live on a self-sufficient farm and never have to venture to town for commerce or entertainment. Seems that describes such a vanishingly small number of people that it isn't really relevant from a policymaking standpoint.

There are also pages and pages of people trying to meet you halfway on the importance of wellness and health, but pointing out that that isn't particularly relevant to this particular discussion about a public health emergency. If my house is on fire and you come to my door lecturing me about how I didn't fireproof my property well enough, I'm gonna be a little confused and probably pissed off. I'd much rather you show up with a hose.

As for not being "anti-vax"...does it matter? At this point, nearly* everyone who is refusing a vaccine that is free, safe, and widely available might as well be "anti-vax," at least in terms of the overall impact on public health. If you don't trust the US healthcare establishment, that's fine. Epidemiologists all over the world are virtually unanimous on this point. Vaccines work. They are safe. For countries that have failed to control the virus by other means (e.g., actual lockdowns with measures to ameliorate the economic fallout), they are the easiest way back to normalcy.

At this point, enough people are vaccinated that we're unlikely to descend back into the darkest time of the pandemic. We know more about how to treat people who do get sick. Our health system is unlikely to be overwhelmed moving forward. But make no mistake: willfully unvaccinated people are freeloading on the rest of us. That's their choice and they are allowed to make it (thanks for the edit, BTB), but let's call a spade a spade.

*Folks who have challenges around transportation, access, good information delivered in a language/format they can understand, or an inability to take time off work for possible side effects being the notable exceptions.


I guess all you’re left to do is shake a fist at society for not being as “ethical” aa you. Let me know how that works out.



I appreciate the points your trying to make. And the conversation. We are just so far apart on so many things. I think that’s perfectly fine. But it confounds me to basically be called unethical and non compassionate. Is that not what you’re doing? Just making sure.
I think you’re probably a perfectly ethical and compassionate person who’s making a particular decision I regard as selfish and misguided.
All it takes is one wicked heart, a pile of money, and a chain of folks just doing their jobs

boyyourself
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:04 am
boyyourself wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:58 am
boyyourself wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:09 am
:arrow: gh



I guess all you’re left to do is shake a fist at society for not being as “ethical” aa you. Let me know how that works out.



I appreciate the points your trying to make. And the conversation. We are just so far apart on so many things. I think that’s perfectly fine. But it confounds me to basically be called unethical and non compassionate. Is that not what you’re doing? Just making sure.
I think you’re probably a perfectly ethical and compassionate person who’s making a particular decision I regard as selfish and misguided.


Thanks. And that’s true about a lot of decisions I make. Just not this one IMO.
What should my 91 gramma, my 70 year old parents, brother, wife and kids, my ex wife, my daughter, all who had it…..what should they do?

Mundane Mayhem
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Location: Denver

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

boyyourself wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:09 am
Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:04 am
boyyourself wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:58 am





I appreciate the points your trying to make. And the conversation. We are just so far apart on so many things. I think that’s perfectly fine. But it confounds me to basically be called unethical and non compassionate. Is that not what you’re doing? Just making sure.
I think you’re probably a perfectly ethical and compassionate person who’s making a particular decision I regard as selfish and misguided.


Thanks. And that’s true about a lot of decisions I make. Just not this one IMO.
What should my 91 gramma, my 70 year old parents, brother, wife and kids, my ex wife, my daughter, all who had it…..what should they do?
Yep, please don't misunderstand anything I said as indicating I want to have some sort of holier-than-thou pissing contest about living an ethical life. Hell, your posts have made me question why I don't get a clothes line going and stop using my dryer when possible. I use more single-use plastic than I'd like. I'm the only person in my car way more than is probably ethically defensible. We've all got our shit to work on.

As for what your previously infected family members should do, I'd submit that they should get vaccinated, absent a medical reason not to. Obviously they should listen to their doctors rather than a guy on a band forum. Here's that argument (although as you said, we're just pretty far apart on a lot of things and this is probably nearing a logical stopping point).

It is likely that your family members have at least some lingering immunity to the virus strains circulating now. How much is somewhat up in the air. The answer to that question depends on how long ago your family members were infected, what strain they had, what their viral loads were, the general state of their immune systems, etc.

The thing is, when you're dealing with a problem this big (i.e., immunizing the billions of people on earth to stamp out a lethal virus), you need blunt instruments. Axes as opposed to scalpels. And that's what the vaccines are. Might it be redundant for someone with natural immunity to get vaccinated? Sure, maybe. But the science is pretty conclusive that the downside/risk is minimal (at least at the 6-month+ mark).

The datasets for the vaccines are huge. So we're able to look at the population level and say, okay, you received your final dose of vaccine A on date B. Given that, we have reason to believe that you retain C% protection against strains D, E, and F for G months. Unfortunately, new strains H and I are potentially concerning even for people who are vaccinated, so we might need to take extra steps to stamp those out when we see them pop up.

There's just far more confidence and certainty, given those enormous datasets and concentrated study thereof, than is really possible with natural immunity. Add in the fact that some people who never tested positive are going to be convinced they had COVID in April 2020 because they got a little winded climbing up a flight of stairs. Maybe they just had a cold or were a little more out of shape than they thought. You can see where the margin for error gets pretty small. Add in the possibility of a variant that breaks through natural immunity but not vaccine-conferred immunity (or vice-versa I suppose) and you see the scope of the challenge facing public health professionals here.

I mentioned P.1 before. Manaus was absolutely wrecked by COVID early on--seroprevalence study suggested perhaps more than 70% of the population was infected. Sounds like herd immunity, right? Well, a variant came through and presumably reinfected a whole bunch of people whose natural immunity didn't protect them. Vaccines, so far, appear to be decently effective against most variants, but that may not continue to be the case. We need to give the virus fewer chances to mutate, which means giving it fewer chances to infect in the first place. How do we do that? Vaccines.

Which brings us back to your family. It's sort of like the public health version of Pascal's Wager (which I don't find terribly convincing in its original theological context, but that's another conversation for another thread): the cost and risk of getting vaccinated is practically nil. Maybe you get chills and headache for a day or so. The risk of not getting vaccinated is that you either get sick yourself or else contribute to community spread and the possibility of viral mutation that puts you and quite literally millions of others at risk. Given those two risk/reward profiles, the choice seems pretty clear to my way of thinking.

It's possible that guidance changes down the line and indicates that vaccination is superfluous for the *confirmed* previously infected within a certain time horizon. But again, at this scale, the key guiding principles are blunt instruments and an abundance of caution. We need approaches that can be applied quickly, efficiently, and uniformly across the board. Hence, vaccination--even for the previously infected--is the best tool we have to confidently reclaim our cultural and economic way of life in a way that doesn't price in thousands and thousands of needless deaths.
All it takes is one wicked heart, a pile of money, and a chain of folks just doing their jobs

boyyourself
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »


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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Jonicont »

I couldn’t stop laughing
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beantownbubba
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by beantownbubba »

Alright, ok. Let's take the worst case (for the Chinese).

The evil, diabolical dictator Xi wants to stick it to the West, make us really suffer. So he thinks, hmmm, maybe biological weapons. So he figures, hey, this is China, we must have some evil genius, diabolical scientists around. So he calls in the most evil and diabolical scientific genius he can find and says go make me a virus that will make the West really suffer and leave us atop the world, unchallenged. Spare no expense!

So the evil genius diabolical scientist retreats to his/her lab spiffy new, up to date w/ all the latest toys lab, which happens to be in Wuhan, China, and s/he creates a virus. What's the first thing s/he does? S/he releases the virus in ... Wuhan China, from where it spreads to... all of China, causing the complete lockdown of Chinese export manufacturing, which just happens to be the non-virused lifeblood of China.

Whoops.

So Xi sends evil, diabolical scientist ! to the Chinese gulag and brings in evil, diabolical scientist II who is twice the genius of evil genius diabolical scientist I to get this right. So evil diabolical genius scientist II aims the virus in the "right" direction where it kills... old people, fat people, poor people and old fat poor people, whom, it turns out, nobody in America gives a fuck about.

Whoops again. So evil, diabolical, genius scientist II joins his/her buddy in the gulag. In the meantime...

The media is on to the story and all of this appears on the front page of the New York Times on about January 24 or 25, 2020, from where it is immediately picked up by every media outlet in the country and the world, left, right, center, legit, not so legit, not at all legit, everyone's on this story. So now it's approximately January 25, 2020 and President Donald Trump is going to address the nation and the world to explain exactly what we're going to do to combat this dread, evil, diabolical disease. He gets in front of the cameras and says... exactly what he said on every day from February 1January 26, 2020 to November 6, 2020. NONE OF THIS MAKES A GODDAMN BIT OF DIFFERENCE TO ANYTHING THAT TRUMP DID OR WOULD HAVE DONE. Nor, btw would it make a bit of difference to what Fauci, the CDC or anyone else said or did (except that they wouldn't blame the bats).

So what we have here is, at most, a media crisis. If the media got it wrong, really badly wrong, that's a serious problem, no doubt. But it doesn't change the political situation or the analysis of who did or didn't do what to whom one iota. It is, surprise, surprise, just more deflection and redirection of blame away from the single person and his administration on whom it totally belongs. That would be Donald Trump, his boy Jared and their gang that couldn't shoot straight if you haven't been following along.

Media bad? Okay I can buy that. Even if they got this right, they've still got their share of problems and if they got it wrong those problems are worse.

But media bad equals Trump good, or Trump right (about fighting the virus, not its cause)? No. Not at all. One can't get there from here. Those pesky facts and actual reality just keep getting in the way.

Edited once for clarity and correction of a couple of mistakes
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

boyyourself
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:37 pm
Alright, ok. Let's take the worst case (for the Chinese).

The evil, diabolical dictator Xi wants to stick it to the West, make us really suffer. So he thinks, hmmm, maybe biological weapons. So he figures, hey, this is China, we must have some evil genius, diabolical scientists around. So he calls in the most evil and diabolical scientific genius he can find and says go make me a virus that will make the West really suffer and leave us atop the world, unchallenged. Spare no expense!

So the evil genius diabolical scientist retreats to his/her lab spiffy new, up to date w/ all the latest toys lab, which happens to be in Wuhan, China, and s/he creates a virus. What's the first thing s/he does? S/he releases the virus in ... Wuhan China, from where it spreads to... all of China, causing the complete lockdown of Chinese export manufacturing, which just happens to be the non-virused lifeblood of China.

Whoops.

So Xi sends evil, diabolical scientist ! to the Chinese gulag and brings in evil, diabolical scientist II who is twice the genius of evil genius diabolical scientist I to get this right. So evil diabolical genius scientist II aims the virus in the "right" direction where it kills... old people, fat people, poor people and old fat poor people, whom, it turns out, nobody in America gives a fuck about.

Whoops again. So evil, diabolical, genius scientist II joins his/her buddy in the gulag. In the meantime...

The media is on to the story and all of this appears on the front page of the New York Times on about January 24 or 25, 2020, from where it is immediately picked up by every media outlet in the country and the world, left, right, center, legit, not so legit, not at all legit, everyone's on this story. So now it's approximately January 25, 2020 and President Donald Trump is going to address the nation and the world to explain exactly what we're going to do to combat this dread, evil, diabolical disease. He gets in front of the cameras and says... exactly what he said on every day from February 1January 26, 2020 to November 6, 2020. NONE OF THIS MAKES A GODDAMN BIT OF DIFFERENCE TO ANYTHING THAT TRUMP DID OR WOULD HAVE DONE. Nor, btw would it make a bit of difference to what Fauci, the CDC or anyone else said or did (except that they wouldn't blame the bats).

So what we have here is, at most, a media crisis. If the media got it wrong, really badly wrong, that's a serious problem, no doubt. But it doesn't change the political situation or the analysis of who did or didn't do what to whom one iota. It is, surprise, surprise, just more deflection and redirection of blame away from the single person and his administration on whom it totally belongs. That would be Donald Trump, his boy Jared and their gang that couldn't shoot straight if you haven't been following along.

Media bad? Okay I can buy that. Even if they got this right, they've still got their share of problems and if they got it wrong those problems are worse.

But media bad equals Trump good, or Trump right (about fighting the virus, not its cause)? No. Not at all. One can't get there from here. Those pesky facts and actual reality just keep getting in the way.

Edited once for clarity and correction of a couple of mistakes

Well framed bean.

The true evil continues imo, everytime fauci says that if you criticize him you’re anti science. Hey kids make sure you take criticism like a bitch! That’s what I tell the kids. I do want to give fauci a break and actually blame his parents for raising such an entitled little twit.
“They” want to be the good guys so bad. But It’s not working out that way for “them”. And “they” continue to toy with lives because it’s not about lives. It’s about pushing agendas for the team and an ugly ball of bs disguised as virtue. That’s what I’m seeing and hearing anyways.
God I hope somebody’s cause takes soon.

Mundane Mayhem
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

Just heard a story about someone who was unable to receive a vaccine due to being in chemotherapy for a treatable, stage 1 cancer. He died today of COVID. He was in his 30s.

I never met the guy, but I've met members of his immediate family. This is causing immeasurable pain to people I know.

This is why I care that everyone who can get vaccinated does so. This shit is real, and the consequences are life and death.
All it takes is one wicked heart, a pile of money, and a chain of folks just doing their jobs

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by tinnitus photography »

cool piece on how the vaccine was produced and scaled to meet demand. this is the sort of thing i've been doing for 30+ years (either on the production or engineering side) so it's nice to see it get a bit of publicity.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... rs-supply/

boyyourself
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aier.o ... c-too/amp/

The king of “just in case science” has been at it for quite sometime.
I was trying to find examples in history of Fauci being correct. Turns out he’s always wanted people to distance from other people. Just in case he’s right. Which he never is. Damage done. Dude still getting that fat check to be an expert though. This is not a story of the boy who cried wolf, this is a story of a gullible crowd, all running off the cliff together at a ghost wolf.
But fauci says that if you criticize him then you’re anti science. Ok then I’m officially anti science.

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Flea »

boyyourself wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:13 pm
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aier.o ... c-too/amp/

The king of “just in case science” has been at it for quite sometime.
I was trying to find examples in history of Fauci being correct. Turns out he’s always wanted people to distance from other people. Just in case he’s right. Which he never is. Damage done. Dude still getting that fat check to be an expert though. This is not a story of the boy who cried wolf, this is a story of a gullible crowd, all running off the cliff together at a ghost wolf.
But fauci says that if you criticize him then you’re anti science. Ok then I’m officially anti science.

Do you have access to the publication in question (the original JAMA article from 1983) without relying upon an interpretation from a political entity? I would like to read it and make my own conclusions.
Last edited by Flea on Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Now it's dark.

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Zip City »

The need to scapegoat Fauci in all of this (instead of, say, the entire Trump administration) is fascinating to me
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Mundane Mayhem
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

boyyourself wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:13 pm
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aier.o ... c-too/amp/

The king of “just in case science” has been at it for quite sometime.
I was trying to find examples in history of Fauci being correct. Turns out he’s always wanted people to distance from other people. Just in case he’s right. Which he never is. Damage done. Dude still getting that fat check to be an expert though. This is not a story of the boy who cried wolf, this is a story of a gullible crowd, all running off the cliff together at a ghost wolf.
But fauci says that if you criticize him then you’re anti science. Ok then I’m officially anti science.
Now do Dr. Ashley Bloomfield
All it takes is one wicked heart, a pile of money, and a chain of folks just doing their jobs

boyyourself
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Fauci now saying that vaccinated people should still avoid congregating. Thanks Karen. Please go away. The rest of are getting on with it.

boyyourself
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Zip City wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:59 pm
The need to scapegoat Fauci in all of this (instead of, say, the entire Trump administration) is fascinating to me

Oh I’m fully aware of all of Trumps fault. I’ve yet to see 6 years of pointing them out bare fruit.
Defending fauci is fascinating. But you have to defend what you “believe” I guess.

Zip City
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Zip City »

I don't defend Fauci any more than saying "he knows more about this than I ever will". I won't pretend to know the motivations behind anything he does or says, I just don't pretend that I know more than him
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

Zip City
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Zip City »

And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

User avatar
Flea
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Flea »

If someone catches the disease and dies because of his/her obstinance in getting a vaccine for any reason other than medical issues, I truly no longer care.

And boyyourself, my question stands regarding the article referenced in your post above.
Now it's dark.

boyyourself
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Flea wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:03 pm
If someone catches the disease and dies because of his/her obstinance in getting a vaccine for any reason other than medical issues, I truly no longer care.

Exactly………and that goes along with what I’ve said about being vaccinated. Doesn’t that mean you are protected? And if so then why would you care what someone else does?
I can look around everyday see examples of people being reckless with their health. Both on a short term and long term basis. Myself included. And it’s clear not everyone wants this vaccine. Half the people even. So yeah chalk em to the dumb half of the country that didn’t vote Biden and let em run off the cliff.
That seems way more reasonable than expecting everyone to take this vaccine and shaking a fist at em for not.




And boyyourself, my question stands regarding the article referenced in your post above.

boyyourself
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Flea wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:23 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:13 pm
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aier.o ... c-too/amp/

The king of “just in case science” has been at it for quite sometime.
I was trying to find examples in history of Fauci being correct. Turns out he’s always wanted people to distance from other people. Just in case he’s right. Which he never is. Damage done. Dude still getting that fat check to be an expert though. This is not a story of the boy who cried wolf, this is a story of a gullible crowd, all running off the cliff together at a ghost wolf.
But fauci says that if you criticize him then you’re anti science. Ok then I’m officially anti science.

Do you have access to the publication in question (the original JAMA article from 1983) without relying upon an interpretation from a political entity? I would like to read it and make my own conclusions.


I do not

Zip City
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Zip City »

Why is it hard to believe that some of us want to see EVERYONE safe from the virus, not JUST OURSELVES?
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

boyyourself
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Zip City wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:08 pm
Why is it hard to believe that some of us want to see EVERYONE safe from the virus, not JUST OURSELVES?


I get that. But what I don’t think you don’t get is that I feel safe from the virus without the vaccine. And do not reckon I’m the only one who feels that way.

Zip City
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Zip City »

boyyourself wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:43 pm
Zip City wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:08 pm
Why is it hard to believe that some of us want to see EVERYONE safe from the virus, not JUST OURSELVES?


I get that. But what I don’t think you don’t get is that I feel safe from the virus without the vaccine. And do not reckon I’m the only one who feels that way.

And what YOU don't get is that the virus doesn't care about your feelings
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

Mundane Mayhem
Posts: 608
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

boyyourself wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:43 pm
Zip City wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:08 pm
Why is it hard to believe that some of us want to see EVERYONE safe from the virus, not JUST OURSELVES?


I get that. But what I don’t think you don’t get is that I feel safe from the virus without the vaccine. And do not reckon I’m the only one who feels that way.
And you’re getting safer every day as the rest of us do our part. You’re welcome!
All it takes is one wicked heart, a pile of money, and a chain of folks just doing their jobs

Mundane Mayhem
Posts: 608
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Location: Denver

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

boyyourself wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:59 pm
Flea wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:03 pm
If someone catches the disease and dies because of his/her obstinance in getting a vaccine for any reason other than medical issues, I truly no longer care.

Exactly………and that goes along with what I’ve said about being vaccinated. Doesn’t that mean you are protected? And if so then why would you care what someone else does?
I can look around everyday see examples of people being reckless with their health.
My sister’s friend buried her 35-year-old brother this week. Cancer didn’t kill him, but COVID did. People who didn’t get vaccinated were reckless with HIS health, and he died. Is that clear enough? We’ve answered this question a hundred fucking times.
All it takes is one wicked heart, a pile of money, and a chain of folks just doing their jobs

beantownbubba
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by beantownbubba »

COVID is communicable, obesity is not.
COVID is communicable, drug addiction is not.
COVID is communicable, riding a motorcycle w/out a helmet is not.
COVID is communicable, eating nutritionally dubious medically problematic fast food is not.
COVID is communicable, living in high stress urban areas and working at high stress jobs are not.
Drunk driving is at least as dangerous to others as it is to one's self; most of us don't do that anymore. Even the folks who sell you the stuff will take away your keys or call you a cab if they think you're a danger to yourself and the community.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

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