Coronavirus - COVID-19

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Mundane Mayhem
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

boyyourself wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:16 am
I’m waiting to here from the “if we all just would’ve listened to Fauci this never would’ve happened” crowd. After all you were a dumb trumper if you didn’t. That’s was the explanation I’ve gotten several times for why some people didn’t buy into fauci.....
And do these fuckers have nothing better to do than to track the mutation of a virus in a bat?
Sorry but I don’t agree with that science.

What’s good to know, comforting honestly, is that there are a great number of us out there that don’t like or trust Biden, Trump, or fauci. You wouldn’t know that if you only watched the news. Or wherever you get your “information”. It’s all about choosing sides and adopting the current belief systems of that side.

So yeah hopefully we are better prepared in the future because we have more that will be less willing to comply to mandates with grave consequences. Maybe some musicians besides kid rock will actually come out and start speaking about how maybe after all we didn’t need to have their entire lives shut down nor the entire industry around it.. Or is only ok to rail against Trump if you’re an entertainer? Hard to tell. It starts to fall on deaf ears when groups like that with big voices never seem to call out “the other side” for their bs. Gotta act like your supposed to according to the colors you choose to fly I guess. Isbell is the classic example. Ever heard him call out anyone other than a republican on Twitter? It’s for the good of the cause that I’m sure is gonna take soon.
Or maybe kids can speak up about how we knew the whole time that they were low risk and that schools never should’ve closed. I guarantee teachers unions won’t. Kids got disrespected more than anything. That and the ocean. But we’re gonna get to the environment after this is over. And start building infrastructure I guess.
Sucks when the new buzz word equals more more more. More shit.

Watching the media protect fauci still is as predictable as finding out that in all those fauci emails, there’s nothing about remedies or preventions......just vaccines. All he saw was vaccine and he loved his 15 minutes. “He’s an expert and your not!!! Oh ok.
And his connection to Bill Gates?
The biomedical company that did early testing here in Telluride? Connected to Bill gates as well ——— yet all I heard is how lucky of a community we are to have them. Don’t worry about them getting all your info while doing a human experiment on you at the same time.
I took it because I’m on search and rescue. Got duped. Hook line and sinker.

And don’t worry about how they all believe in de population as a means to saving the planet.....
Wild conspiracy? You think so? I don’t.
Not 100% sure what you're talking about here (the lab angle?), but I never quite understood the hero worship of Fauci as an individual. Although in those emails, it seems like he didn't quite understand it, either. Speaking for those of us on the actual left (not the Democratic Party), I never saw a ton of the cringeworthy SNL-style Fauci stuff. I mostly saw people making fun of it, although probably more for aesthetic reasons than public health reasons. I just don't spend that much time thinking about Anthony Fauci, to be honest.

I think it's less helpful to focus on Fauci as one individual and more helpful to focus on the fact that social distancing and lockdowns were the general consensus among epidemiologists and public health professionals all over the world. Fauci's real value is that Trump couldn't really get away with firing him and so he provided an "adult in the room" vibe that people latched onto. Frankly, if Trump had been capable of providing any leadership whatsoever, I don't think Fauci would have been pumped up to such an absurd degree.

If your takeaway from this pandemic is that more people should be like Kid Rock and flout public health precautions/not comply with mandates, I'm not sure what you're basing that on. We're going to end up having lost more than 600,000 people in the U.S., and it could have been much worse if we had just given up and allowed the virus to circulate even more broadly.

As for a focus on vaccines, in my opinion it was pretty obvious pretty early on that vaccines were our only real path out of this thing, unfortunately. Other countries that actually instituted stricter lockdowns, testing and tracing, etc. (thinking of, e.g., New Zealand, South Korea, Vietnam) had other methods at their disposal, but America screwed the pooch so quickly and proved so incapable of managing viral spread that vaccines were our only hope.

Here's one thing I will give you: I rolled my eyes pretty hard when the Fauci book news leaked. It would be one thing if it came out in a year or two, but we're still not even out of the pandemic yet and it's just not a good look to have America's Public Health Daddy cashing in already.
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pearlbeer
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by pearlbeer »

boyyourself wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:16 am
Gotta act like your supposed to according to the colors you choose to fly I guess. Isbell is the classic example. Ever heard him call out anyone other than a republican on Twitter?
He turned in his CMA Membership in protest of John Prine not being recognized.
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boyyourself
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

pearlbeer wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:45 am
boyyourself wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:16 am
Gotta act like your supposed to according to the colors you choose to fly I guess. Isbell is the classic example. Ever heard him call out anyone other than a republican on Twitter?
He turned in his CMA Membership in protest of John Prine not being recognized.



Good move on his part. But It took that for him to realize he didn’t want to be part of that club?
And was just trying to make the point that if you’re gonna call out bs then call it out everywhere otherwise you sound like a cheerleader.

This is why Kwame Brown captured my attention.
And that of many others. And he’s everything a lot of people in the media are threatened by because he’s just speaking his mind and has a platform for it.
Jason isbell wants what’s best for Society. I know that. I love him for that. Always have. Always like the line “sleep while the soldiers get sunstroke”. Which to me speaks to isbell maintaining a universal perspective no matter how comfy your life seems right now.
But If you’re gonna be a referee then call it both ways. And if you’re try to be a ref and a cheerleader at the same time then people are gonna question your calls. Best to keep it real and be neither. But what the hell do I know about society I talk slow and my moneys spent and my burglar alarm is unloaded for some reason.

Mundane Mayhem
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

Here’s a good example of a Left critique of Fauci from January.

https://www.thedriftmag.com/the-case-against-fauci/
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tinnitus photography
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by tinnitus photography »

i've posted bits of Andrew's weekly updates before, but this really gets to the heart of what science is, and why the prevailing voice of experts (epidemiologists, in this case) have a stronger foundation for their beliefs than Joe or Jane Schmoe. i mean, i guess it's ok if ye don't think experts know what they are talking about (and let's focus solely on experts in scientific fields here, not pundits who bloviate on various other topics), but it hardly makes that belief correct.
Scientific and epidemiologic data separate fact from fiction, reality from hunches. So often we believed one thing but when tested formally our beliefs turned out to be wrong. Non-scientists (and poor scientists) get information to affirm their existing beliefs or refute the beliefs of others. True science, on the other hand, is meant to start with a hypothesis or question, and try to get more information by trying to disprove your initial idea. If you do it honestly, you are trying to poke holes in the armour of what you believe. Most epidemiologic studies merely try to find the various pieces of information, without actually manipulating the subjects of research.
this weekly edition is again worth reading, as it touches on the kids (schools, sports, other closures) and how the pandemic has affected them, and relative risks.

https://covidemails.com/weekly-email-61 ... ght-issue/

boyyourself
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:42 pm
Here’s a good example of a Left critique of Fauci from January.

https://www.thedriftmag.com/the-case-against-fauci/



I wonder if he’s still accepting research donations? Surely he want lying to make sure the money kept coming in?
Good dude. All about saving Lives.

boyyourself
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

I got killed on here for a year for being a fauci science denier because science is ever evolving and whatnot. Retractions are never as vigorous as the accusations eh?

And So much for “China Virus” being a racist term. Now the media be all like “oh of course the virus came from Wuhan! Duh.
Any musicians pissed that their lives being shut down was based on bs? If they are they probably won’t speak up because theyre playing go along get along. Anything for the team. Let’s also not ever extol the value of many have received from HCQ and ivomec. Let’s for sure not talk about who got hit hard and how to build immunity. Nope. Not shine a light on the low risk population and ask why. That may actually save lives.

It was never about lives. It was never about science.
It was a blatant act of disrespect to our youth, the working class, and migrant workers——-all who suffered while corporations got fatter.
Cuomo and the Michigan governer for passes and now so will fauci. The fda continues to be a corrupt. The telluride couple that saved took my blood and all my info because I was a dumbass get to walk around town with their dogs like nothing ever happened. Ironic that I thought I needed to be tested because I’m on search and rescue. Altruistically speaking I wanted to make sure I could “safely” go on rescue missions. It was the right thought I just wish I had it back knowing so much more than I did in March 2020.
The irony is that fauci initially said masks didn’t work because he wanted to make sure there were enough for front line workers. What an idiot.
This just in....... there were plenty to go around and in China they can band together and crank out plastic shit all day long including masks. Which they did. Billions of them. That will all end up in the Ocean.

I bet if we mandated everyone suddenly be in charge of their own health and there own garbage I bet a lot of motherfuckers would start doing a lot of shit differently. And the world would be a better place.

I’m fully in agreement with Fuck Trump For the record. Fuck him. But I’ve seen that sentiment for six years and haven’t seen it be helpful.
But fck fauci Fck the fda. Fck the usda. Fck the cdc. And many others.
“Buy local, use less.” Way better than fuck Trump or alternative energy anyways.

It’s nice to get all that off my chest. And
I respect and admire all of you that have chosen to engage with me through this pandemic.

boyyourself
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com ... acket/amp/

This guy was literally playing with lives.

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tinnitus photography
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by tinnitus photography »

Whether it was a weak attempt at gallows humor among Fauci and his friends, or a published cartoon being forwarded around, isn’t clear. But the image did generate shock on social media (as well as internet bulletin boards of certain bands).

let's assume Fauci (for whatever reason) did create that bracket.

how was he 'literally playing with lives' if he deduced that COVID was the most dangerous pathogen to deal with? i mean, if it was bounced out in the first round, that would tell a different story.

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Flea
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Flea »

boyyourself wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:32 pm
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com ... acket/amp/

This guy was literally playing with lives.
You don't seem to have a concept of the gallows humor that develops in almost every medical professional.
Now it's dark.

Zip City
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Zip City »

I hear that Fauci didn’t wash his hands one time...what a dick
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boyyourself
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newswe ... 69%3famp=1

but but but, they’re expert scientist so they know more than you. So much for that.

boyyourself
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »


Mundane Mayhem
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

boyyourself wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:08 pm
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news-m ... study.aspx



Not surprising
Cool. Agreed that it’s not terribly surprising. Worth exploring. That is the job of science. Will be interesting to see the longevity of various types of immunity as that sort of study becomes possible.

Were you previously infected, to your knowledge? Shouldn’t people who don’t presently have immunity do the easiest thing they can do to attain immunity (i.e., vaccination)?
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pearlbeer
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by pearlbeer »

Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:42 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:08 pm
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news-m ... study.aspx



Not surprising
Cool. Agreed that it’s not terribly surprising. Worth exploring. That is the job of science. Will be interesting to see the longevity of various types of immunity as that sort of study becomes possible.

Were you previously infected, to your knowledge? Shouldn’t people who don’t presently have immunity do the easiest thing they can do to attain immunity (i.e., vaccination)?
I heard a slightly conflicting report last night that Covid+ folks SHOULD get the vaccine, but wait a while after infection for best efficacy. The amount of antibodies created by the vax is WAY more than the infection. This is why we are seeing re-infections with Covid+ but hardly any infections with vaxxed folk. A pretty simple way to look and judge here is -- who is now actually getting Covid? (hint: mostly the unvaxxed)

Another interesting tidbit (based on my understanding) about the Vax is with mRNA technology, the actual vaccination doesn't last very long in your body - it just teaches you how to make the anti-body and fades away pretty quickly.
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Mundane Mayhem
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

pearlbeer wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:58 pm
Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:42 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:08 pm
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news-m ... study.aspx



Not surprising
Cool. Agreed that it’s not terribly surprising. Worth exploring. That is the job of science. Will be interesting to see the longevity of various types of immunity as that sort of study becomes possible.

Were you previously infected, to your knowledge? Shouldn’t people who don’t presently have immunity do the easiest thing they can do to attain immunity (i.e., vaccination)?
I heard a slightly conflicting report last night that Covid+ folks SHOULD get the vaccine, but wait a while after infection for best efficacy. The amount of antibodies created by the vax is WAY more than the infection. This is why we are seeing re-infections with Covid+ but hardly any infections with vaxxed folk. A pretty simple way to look and judge here is -- who is now actually getting Covid? (hint: mostly the unvaxxed)

Another interesting tidbit (based on my understanding) about the Vax is with mRNA technology, the actual vaccination doesn't last very long in your body - it just teaches you how to make the anti-body and fades away pretty quickly.
Yeah. I think a lot about the P.1 variant that tore through Manaus, Brazil, largely (it is hypothesized) by reinfecting previously infected people. I know they're already experimenting with strain-targeted boosters to keep the virus at bay. Science is so cool.
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boyyourself
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo ... 00816.html


Suppressing info about treatment and touting only vaccines is playing with lives. Which is a moot point since it never was about lives.
Plus the big bad orange clown touted it so it must be bad. I wonder if people who suffered from Covid symptoms that could’ve been minimized are pissed off? And are we still only talking about the vaccine? I guess so.
How long does it work? Really looking forward to advertisements about how it’s time to get vaccinated again! It’s your civic duty!
Yet still nothing being floated out there about how to be low risk. I guess we couldn’t afford it? Other cause mortalities and info on who got hit hard just gets swept under the rug. It’s not about lives or that info would be readily available.

I’m starting to think the Biden team cares more about it’s agendas than it does the people it claims to care about.

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by pearlbeer »

boyyourself wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:29 am
https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo ... 00816.html


Suppressing info about treatment and touting only vaccines is playing with lives. Which is a moot point since it never was about lives.
Plus the big bad orange clown touted it so it must be bad. I wonder if people who suffered from Covid symptoms that could’ve been minimized are pissed off? And are we still only talking about the vaccine? I guess so.
How long does it work? Really looking forward to advertisements about how it’s time to get vaccinated again! It’s your civic duty!
Yet still nothing being floated out there about how to be low risk. I guess we couldn’t afford it? Other cause mortalities and info on who got hit hard just gets swept under the rug. It’s not about lives or that info would be readily available.

I’m starting to think the Biden team cares more about it’s agendas than it does the people it claims to care about.
a bit of context about that article...this study is focusing on patients who were on ventilators:

"The observational study, published by medRxiv, found that antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine, along with zinc, could increase the coronavirus survival rate by as much as nearly 200% if distributed at higher doses to ventilated patients with a severe version of the illness."

70%+ of the subjects in the study died. This is not about preventing infection. This is looking at patients in serious critical care.

There is a LOT to digest and learn about how we (mis)handled this pandemic. However, the evidence is in on vaccines. Millions of people (close to 100mm in the US) and across the globe have been vaccinated, and the efficacy rates are great! Further, negative side effects are very rare.

If you are going to look at data and science to evaluate treatment options...great! Check out the data set from the vaccine...it is massive and shows that it is EXTREMELY effective in preventing infection. Hydroxy appears to have beneficial to the very, very critically ill (and 70% of them died).

I'm for a deep investigation into how we can manage and treat a health emergency better next time - but while you are accusing the "suppression" of treatment for end of life, you are also ignoring the clear science of massive benefits of the vaccine. That's suppression too, hoss.
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tinnitus photography
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by tinnitus photography »

Also, i guess it's not so good at preventing infection. :lol:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... e-of-weeks

boyyourself
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

pearlbeer wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:38 am
boyyourself wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:29 am
https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo ... 00816.html


Suppressing info about treatment and touting only vaccines is playing with lives. Which is a moot point since it never was about lives.
Plus the big bad orange clown touted it so it must be bad. I wonder if people who suffered from Covid symptoms that could’ve been minimized are pissed off? And are we still only talking about the vaccine? I guess so.
How long does it work? Really looking forward to advertisements about how it’s time to get vaccinated again! It’s your civic duty!
Yet still nothing being floated out there about how to be low risk. I guess we couldn’t afford it? Other cause mortalities and info on who got hit hard just gets swept under the rug. It’s not about lives or that info would be readily available.

I’m starting to think the Biden team cares more about it’s agendas than it does the people it claims to care about.
a bit of context about that article...this study is focusing on patients who were on ventilators:

"The observational study, published by medRxiv, found that antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine, along with zinc, could increase the coronavirus survival rate by as much as nearly 200% if distributed at higher doses to ventilated patients with a severe version of the illness."

70%+ of the subjects in the study died. This is not about preventing infection. This is looking at patients in serious critical care.

There is a LOT to digest and learn about how we (mis)handled this pandemic. However, the evidence is in on vaccines. Millions of people (close to 100mm in the US) and across the globe have been vaccinated, and the efficacy rates are great! Further, negative side effects are very rare.

If you are going to look at data and science to evaluate treatment options...great! Check out the data set from the vaccine...it is massive and shows that it is EXTREMELY effective in preventing infection. Hydroxy appears to have beneficial to the very, very critically ill (and 70% of them died).

I'm for a deep investigation into how we can manage and treat a health emergency better next time - but while you are accusing the "suppression" of treatment for end of life, you are also ignoring the clear science of massive benefits of the vaccine. That's suppression too, hoss.



Nice to see you criticizing science.

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

This study is only talking about critically ill. That doesn’t mean others haven’t had good luck with it. Hoss.
How many were critically ill? Y’all were throwing numbers around showing compassion for the ill.... now it’s JUST the ill that benefited from something other than a mask. No big deal. Nothing to see here.
So should those that got critically ill be pissed that this info was surprresssed? I’m guessing you would be.

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by pearlbeer »

boyyourself wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:47 pm
This study is only talking about critically ill. That doesn’t mean others haven’t had good luck with it. Hoss.
How many were critically ill? Y’all were throwing numbers around showing compassion for the ill.... now it’s JUST the ill that benefited from something other than a mask. No big deal. Nothing to see here.
So should those that got critically ill be pissed that this info was surprresssed? I’m guessing you would be.
The study was focused on the very critically ill. I saw no evidence presented on the efficacy of Hyrdoxy as a treatment or preventative - that is just YOU drawing those conclusions. If you are going to be so cavalier about drawing those connections, I suppose that would give me the authority to ask about the efficacy of blowing sunshine up your ass or drinking bleach (which were also sighted at the highest levels as potential treatment options) ;)
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by pearlbeer »

boyyourself wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:41 pm




Nice to see you criticizing science.
Being critical of science is science. :)
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

pearlbeer wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:02 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:47 pm
This study is only talking about critically ill. That doesn’t mean others haven’t had good luck with it. Hoss.
How many were critically ill? Y’all were throwing numbers around showing compassion for the ill.... now it’s JUST the ill that benefited from something other than a mask. No big deal. Nothing to see here.
So should those that got critically ill be pissed that this info was surprresssed? I’m guessing you would be.
The study was focused on the very critically ill. I saw no evidence presented on the efficacy of Hyrdoxy as a treatment or preventative - that is just YOU drawing those conclusions. If you are going to be so cavalier about drawing those connections, I suppose that would give me the authority to ask about the efficacy of blowing sunshine up your ass or drinking bleach (which were also sighted at the highest levels as potential treatment options) ;)


What? Dude I’m sharing info. That’s being cavalier? My frustration is with which info gets passed around as gold and which gets vilified.

It’s not what science you’re strung out on they care about so much as who’s.

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by pearlbeer »

boyyourself wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:24 pm
pearlbeer wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:02 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:47 pm
This study is only talking about critically ill. That doesn’t mean others haven’t had good luck with it. Hoss.
How many were critically ill? Y’all were throwing numbers around showing compassion for the ill.... now it’s JUST the ill that benefited from something other than a mask. No big deal. Nothing to see here.
So should those that got critically ill be pissed that this info was surprresssed? I’m guessing you would be.
The study was focused on the very critically ill. I saw no evidence presented on the efficacy of Hyrdoxy as a treatment or preventative - that is just YOU drawing those conclusions. If you are going to be so cavalier about drawing those connections, I suppose that would give me the authority to ask about the efficacy of blowing sunshine up your ass or drinking bleach (which were also sighted at the highest levels as potential treatment options) ;)


What? Dude I’m sharing info. That’s being cavalier? My frustration is with which info gets passed around as gold and which gets vilified.

It’s not what science you’re strung out on they care about so much as who’s.
I know you are sharing info. I didn't argue with the info you shared, but it seemed to me you shared a pretty narrow study and made some pretty broad assumptions. By the same token, it also seems to me that you are dismissing broad studies on vaccines and making some narrow assumptions.

Without assigning blame, or playing politics --- over the past year we've faced a challenge that has never been faced before. Covid-19 in humans just recently came into existence. Science, medicine, policy - we've never faced it before. There were A LOT of screw ups. There was a LOT of bad information...because we didn't know! You are right that we need to dig in to the ground truth and learn what we can so we can improve, because there will be a next time. Let's learn from our mistakes and our successes.

I'm not dismissing your opinions or evidence. Really. I trust them more if they are data driven and science based, certainly, but I am saying - yeah, we need to understand where we fucked up...and we did fuck up A LOT. We had to fail fast to beat this thing. But, we also came up with a (so far so good) solution. That's where I continue to push back on you as you don't seem to be fairly considering the broad evidence of the efficacy of the vaccines in concert with the evidence (that will continue to emerge) on how we could/should have done better.
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

pearlbeer wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:17 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:24 pm
pearlbeer wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:02 pm


The study was focused on the very critically ill. I saw no evidence presented on the efficacy of Hyrdoxy as a treatment or preventative - that is just YOU drawing those conclusions. If you are going to be so cavalier about drawing those connections, I suppose that would give me the authority to ask about the efficacy of blowing sunshine up your ass or drinking bleach (which were also sighted at the highest levels as potential treatment options) ;)


What? Dude I’m sharing info. That’s being cavalier? My frustration is with which info gets passed around as gold and which gets vilified.

It’s not what science you’re strung out on they care about so much as who’s.
I know you are sharing info. I didn't argue with the info you shared, but it seemed to me you shared a pretty narrow study and made some pretty broad assumptions. By the same token, it also seems to me that you are dismissing broad studies on vaccines and making some narrow assumptions.

Without assigning blame, or playing politics --- over the past year we've faced a challenge that has never been faced before. Covid-19 in humans just recently came into existence. Science, medicine, policy - we've never faced it before. There were A LOT of screw ups. There was a LOT of bad information...because we didn't know! You are right that we need to dig in to the ground truth and learn what we can so we can improve, because there will be a next time. Let's learn from our mistakes and our successes.

I'm not dismissing your opinions or evidence. Really. I trust them more if they are data driven and science based, certainly, but I am saying - yeah, we need to understand where we fucked up...and we did fuck up A LOT. We had to fail fast to beat this thing. But, we also came up with a (so far so good) solution. That's where I continue to push back on you as you don't seem to be fairly considering the broad evidence of the efficacy of the vaccines in concert with the evidence (that will continue to emerge) on how we could/should have done better.


I’m not anti vax nor am I denying the science. It’s basically the same as I feel about the lockdowns which is that it should’ve been a choice. It’s not for everyone. Same as the vaccine. If you want it then go for it. All about it. Just don’t think it’s someone everyone needs to take. And the fact is plenty won’t. Let’s deal with that. Shaking a fist at them, us, isn’t helping. And if you’re vaxxed then aren’t you good? Then I honestly don’t see why you would worry about what others do.
I don’t mind the criticism. Obviously.
Unlike fauci who now says that criticizing him is anti science. That’s almost unbelievable. But that’s how it is........disagree with me and you must be wrong and lacking virtue. And all his cronies operate like that. They don’t want diversity. Believe what I believe or you’re dumb. And it’s tired and played out and in fact not true. And exactly why I don’t trust him or the media and the government who protects him. How is someone that thinks they are beyond criticism trustworthy? They aren’t. And I didn’t all along.
My beef is this... where are we in a year or two or five or twenty and why? And that If we want to be a healthier hardier population l, how do we achieve that? Wellness is never discussed. Only illness. Fauci is exhibit a of this. Virus everywhere go inside!!! Oh wait you should’ve gone outside. Oops. Ow well don’t worry about natural prevention......just get vaxxed.
Which again, go for it, the question is always then what.


boyyourself
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Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by boyyourself »

We’ll create the cure. We made the disease. Frustrated incorporated.

Mundane Mayhem
Posts: 608
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Location: Denver

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

boyyourself wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:35 pm

I’m not anti vax nor am I denying the science. It’s basically the same as I feel about the lockdowns which is that it should’ve been a choice. It’s not for everyone. Same as the vaccine. If you want it then go for it. All about it. Just don’t think it’s someone everyone needs to take. And the fact is plenty won’t. Let’s deal with that. Shaking a fist at them, us, isn’t helping. And if you’re vaxxed then aren’t you good? Then I honestly don’t see why you would worry about what others do.
This thread contains pages and pages of people explaining quite eloquently why this way of thinking simply doesn't apply to communicable and contagious diseases. In the context of controlling a virus that spreads via aerosol and mutates at random, there is really no such thing as making a decision that only affects yourself. Maybe if you live on a self-sufficient farm and never have to venture to town for commerce or entertainment. Seems that describes such a vanishingly small number of people that it isn't really relevant from a policymaking standpoint.

There are also pages and pages of people trying to meet you halfway on the importance of wellness and health, but pointing out that that isn't particularly relevant to this particular discussion about a public health emergency. If my house is on fire and you come to my door lecturing me about how I didn't fireproof my property well enough, I'm gonna be a little confused and probably pissed off. I'd much rather you show up with a hose.

As for not being "anti-vax"...does it matter? At this point, nearly* everyone who is refusing a vaccine that is free, safe, and widely available might as well be "anti-vax," at least in terms of the overall impact on public health. If you don't trust the US healthcare establishment, that's fine. Epidemiologists all over the world are virtually unanimous on this point. Vaccines work. They are safe. For countries that have failed to control the virus by other means (e.g., actual lockdowns with measures to ameliorate the economic fallout), they are the easiest way back to normalcy.

At this point, enough people are vaccinated that we're unlikely to descend back into the darkest time of the pandemic. We know more about how to treat people who do get sick. Our health system is unlikely to be overwhelmed moving forward. But make no mistake: willfully unvaccinated people are freeloading on the rest of us. That's their choice and they are allowed to make it (thanks for the edit, BTB), but let's call a spade a spade.

*Folks who have challenges around transportation, access, good information delivered in a language/format they can understand, or an inability to take time off work for possible side effects being the notable exceptions.
Last edited by Mundane Mayhem on Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All it takes is one wicked heart, a pile of money, and a chain of folks just doing their jobs

beantownbubba
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Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19

Post by beantownbubba »

Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:49 pm
willfully unvaccinated people are freeloading on the rest of us. That's fine...
I assume you mean "fine" in the sense of "so be it" or "there's nothing I can do about it," which is, ummm, fine, but I just want to say that freeloading is not fine.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

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