The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

Cole Younger wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:23 am
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... art-monkey

I’m interested to hear thoughts on this. I’m agin it personally. Look at how humans treat each other. How will some less intelligent chimera be treated? Best of intentions my ass. There is no way this sort of thing needs to happen.
there was never any intention of bringing for a viable organism, merely to try to understand early stage cell differentiation in order to advance organ transplants/regeneration.
"This knowledge will allow us to go back now and try to re-engineer these pathways that are successful for allowing appropriate development of human cells in these other animals," Belmonte told NPR. "We are very, very excited."

Such mixed-species embryos are known as chimeras, named for the fire-breathing creature from Greek mythology that is part lion, part goat and part snake.

"Our goal is not to generate any new organism, any monster," Belmonte said. "And we are not doing anything like that. We are trying to understand how cells from different organisms communicate with one another."

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

tinnitus photography wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:33 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:23 am
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... art-monkey

I’m interested to hear thoughts on this. I’m agin it personally. Look at how humans treat each other. How will some less intelligent chimera be treated? Best of intentions my ass. There is no way this sort of thing needs to happen.
there was never any intention of bringing for a viable organism, merely to try to understand early stage cell differentiation in order to advance organ transplants/regeneration.
"This knowledge will allow us to go back now and try to re-engineer these pathways that are successful for allowing appropriate development of human cells in these other animals," Belmonte told NPR. "We are very, very excited."

Such mixed-species embryos are known as chimeras, named for the fire-breathing creature from Greek mythology that is part lion, part goat and part snake.

"Our goal is not to generate any new organism, any monster," Belmonte said. "And we are not doing anything like that. We are trying to understand how cells from different organisms communicate with one another."
Right, I read that part. I know that’s what was and is said. But among the things that I know about humans are if we can we will and whether or not we should doesnt much enter into it. Sooner or later if the means are there it will happen. Reassurance to the contrary means little to me. “Oh we wouldn’t do that. We promise.” has been the disclaimer that has lead to all sorts of awful things.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

Cole Younger wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:54 pm
Right, I read that part. I know that’s what was and is said. But among the things that I know about humans are if we can we will and whether or not we should doesnt much enter into it. Sooner or later if the means are there it will happen. Reassurance to the contrary means little to me. “Oh we wouldn’t do that. We promise.” has been the disclaimer that has lead to all sorts of awful things.
I used to be totally gung-ho about scientific research of any sort, but there's stuff we're learning that we don't have any idea how to handle. Biological engineering and antisocial media are two of the best--and by best, I mean worst--examples, but there are others. I'm still for it, but more cautiously.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:46 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:54 pm
Right, I read that part. I know that’s what was and is said. But among the things that I know about humans are if we can we will and whether or not we should doesnt much enter into it. Sooner or later if the means are there it will happen. Reassurance to the contrary means little to me. “Oh we wouldn’t do that. We promise.” has been the disclaimer that has lead to all sorts of awful things.
I used to be totally gung-ho about scientific research of any sort, but there's stuff we're learning that we don't have any idea how to handle. Biological engineering and antisocial media are two of the best--and by best, I mean worst--examples, but there are others. I'm still for it, but more cautiously.
Our ability to do shit has greatly outpaced our ability to understand and control shit. As far as I can tell the ethical, moral, philosophical and religious "tools" we've developed over the past 3,000 or so years just aren't up to the job. There will undoubtedly be a disaster right out of science fiction or dystopian fiction but it's hard to say precisely what or when.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

Is the phrase "promote Anglo Saxon political traditions" as funny in the states as it is on the other side of the pond?

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5487 ... traditions

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Anybody notice Paul Krugman's op-ed column on Adrew Yang in today's NYT? Whatever the merits of Krugman's substantive case, I was really brought up short by the very personal nature of his attack on Yang.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

305 Engine wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:13 pm
Is the phrase "promote Anglo Saxon political traditions" as funny in the states as it is on the other side of the pond?

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5487 ... traditions
I don't have a good handle on just how funny this is on your end, but my guess is that the answer is no, it's not as funny here. For one simple reason: I doubt that there are more than a few thousand people in this country (population 330 million) who have any idea what anglo saxon political traditions are and I'd bet my entire retirement account that Marjorie Taylor Greene is not one of them. I have less of a handle on Gosar but I'm pretty sure he doesn't know either. What about it wolf? Ready to take on this action?
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:10 pm
There will undoubtedly be a disaster right out of science fiction or dystopian fiction but it's hard to say precisely what or when.
Are you certain our current life in the panopticon isn't it?
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:20 pm
305 Engine wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:13 pm
Is the phrase "promote Anglo Saxon political traditions" as funny in the states as it is on the other side of the pond?

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5487 ... traditions
I don't have a good handle on just how funny this is on your end, but my guess is that the answer is no, it's not as funny here. For one simple reason: I doubt that there are more than a few thousand people in this country (population 330 million) who have any idea what anglo saxon political traditions are and I'd bet my entire retirement account that Marjorie Taylor Greene is not one of them. I have less of a handle on Gosar but I'm pretty sure he doesn't know either. What about it wolf? Ready to take on this action?
Taken literally, "Anglo Saxon political traditions" means a witan of lords and bishops advising the king, building alliances with areas under the influence of the Danish and trying to battle incursions from the Welsh.

I'm guessing that this isn't what these idiots mean and it's really just code for more racist stuff.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:15 pm
Anybody notice Paul Krugman's op-ed column on Adrew Yang in today's NYT? Whatever the merits of Krugman's substantive case, I was really brought up short by the very personal nature of his attack on Yang.
Personal nature of his attack? That's sweetness and light! Even in my world, where bad math is indeed a personal matter to me. If I were accused of bad math, I guess I would probably demand Satisfaction, or at least a few bars of Get Off My Cloud. But math you don't do is math you don't do bad.

This is my current brouhaha (ha ha ha, except it isn't really funny):

“How is ‘George R.R. Martin Can Fuck Off Into the Sun’ not a violation of the DisCon III Code of Conduct?” That eye-catching phrase is attached to a Best Related Work finalist whose complete title is “George R.R. Martin Can Fuck Off Into the Sun, Or: The 2020 Hugo Awards Ceremony (Rageblog Edition)”, Natalie Luhrs (Pretty Terrible, August 2020).
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:15 pm
Anybody notice Paul Krugman's op-ed column on Adrew Yang in today's NYT? Whatever the merits of Krugman's substantive case, I was really brought up short by the very personal nature of his attack on Yang.
They’ve got their sights on Andrew Yang now because he thinks for himself. Same as with Bernie. I might not agree with either on a lot but I don’t think they’re bad people. And most of the rest in the ruling class whether that’s media corporate leaders or “public servants” are black hearted sonsofbitches.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

305 Engine wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:29 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:20 pm
305 Engine wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:13 pm
Is the phrase "promote Anglo Saxon political traditions" as funny in the states as it is on the other side of the pond?

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5487 ... traditions
I don't have a good handle on just how funny this is on your end, but my guess is that the answer is no, it's not as funny here. For one simple reason: I doubt that there are more than a few thousand people in this country (population 330 million) who have any idea what anglo saxon political traditions are and I'd bet my entire retirement account that Marjorie Taylor Greene is not one of them. I have less of a handle on Gosar but I'm pretty sure he doesn't know either. What about it wolf? Ready to take on this action?
Taken literally, "Anglo Saxon political traditions" means a witan of lords and bishops advising the king, building alliances with areas under the influence of the Danish and trying to battle incursions from the Welsh.

I'm guessing that this isn't what these idiots mean and it's really just code for more racist stuff.
Yeah, I had visions of drinking mead, tearing huge gobs of meat off even huger carcasses to eat w/ your hands while banging on the table demanding more wenches. But of course that would be after the formal agenda when they'd draw lots to see who would get to claim that they brought back the one true cross or chalice from the Crusades.

Oh yeah, as I'm sure you already know, racist motivations are a total given.

All that said, it's still waaay cool to see the more or less original Magna Carta at the British Library.

But of even more importance, when is Jose Marinho going to be fired?
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:57 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:15 pm
Anybody notice Paul Krugman's op-ed column on Adrew Yang in today's NYT? Whatever the merits of Krugman's substantive case, I was really brought up short by the very personal nature of his attack on Yang.
Personal nature of his attack? That's sweetness and light! Even in my world, where bad math is indeed a personal matter to me. If I were accused of bad math, I guess I would probably demand Satisfaction, or at least a few bars of Get Off My Cloud. But math you don't do is math you don't do bad.

This is my current brouhaha (ha ha ha, except it isn't really funny):

“How is ‘George R.R. Martin Can Fuck Off Into the Sun’ not a violation of the DisCon III Code of Conduct?” That eye-catching phrase is attached to a Best Related Work finalist whose complete title is “George R.R. Martin Can Fuck Off Into the Sun, Or: The 2020 Hugo Awards Ceremony (Rageblog Edition)”, Natalie Luhrs (Pretty Terrible, August 2020).
Context is everything. What a Nobel Prize Winner says in the NYT is judged, at least by me, on a different scale than a blog dispute about popular fiction.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:20 pm
305 Engine wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:13 pm
Is the phrase "promote Anglo Saxon political traditions" as funny in the states as it is on the other side of the pond?

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5487 ... traditions
I don't have a good handle on just how funny this is on your end, but my guess is that the answer is no, it's not as funny here. For one simple reason: I doubt that there are more than a few thousand people in this country (population 330 million) who have any idea what anglo saxon political traditions are and I'd bet my entire retirement account that Marjorie Taylor Greene is not one of them. I have less of a handle on Gosar but I'm pretty sure he doesn't know either. What about it wolf? Ready to take on this action?
I find it funny insofar as it’s hilarious to me that the same people who say you shouldn’t be down on someone for things they had nothing to do with like race (I agree) openly hiss and spit about “white people”. What is so awful about “white Anglo Saxon traditions” political or otherwise? What specifically are they talking about? Is it just woke horse shit for provocation’s sake? Can you imagine someone saying something derogatory about “African American traditions”? This shit has gotten so stupid.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Cole Younger wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:18 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:15 pm
Anybody notice Paul Krugman's op-ed column on Adrew Yang in today's NYT? Whatever the merits of Krugman's substantive case, I was really brought up short by the very personal nature of his attack on Yang.
They’ve got their sights on Andrew Yang now because he thinks for himself. Same as with Bernie. I might not agree with either on a lot but I don’t think they’re bad people. And most of the rest in the ruling class whether that’s media corporate leaders or “public servants” are black hearted sonsofbitches.
Fair enough as a general proposition but I'm not sure how applicable this is when the establishment type accuses the independent type of being a non thinking charlatan without a thought in his head. And backs it up w/ math.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:28 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:18 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:15 pm
Anybody notice Paul Krugman's op-ed column on Adrew Yang in today's NYT? Whatever the merits of Krugman's substantive case, I was really brought up short by the very personal nature of his attack on Yang.
They’ve got their sights on Andrew Yang now because he thinks for himself. Same as with Bernie. I might not agree with either on a lot but I don’t think they’re bad people. And most of the rest in the ruling class whether that’s media corporate leaders or “public servants” are black hearted sonsofbitches.
Fair enough as a general proposition but I'm not sure how applicable this is when the establishment type accuses the independent type of being a non thinking charlatan without a thought in his head. And backing it up w/ math.
Paul Krugman is a dick and most of what he says in his little shit slinging articles about other people are descriptions of him in my opinion. If he doesn’t like someone, it makes me think they can’t be all bad.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Cole Younger wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:26 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:20 pm
305 Engine wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:13 pm
Is the phrase "promote Anglo Saxon political traditions" as funny in the states as it is on the other side of the pond?

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5487 ... traditions
I don't have a good handle on just how funny this is on your end, but my guess is that the answer is no, it's not as funny here. For one simple reason: I doubt that there are more than a few thousand people in this country (population 330 million) who have any idea what anglo saxon political traditions are and I'd bet my entire retirement account that Marjorie Taylor Greene is not one of them. I have less of a handle on Gosar but I'm pretty sure he doesn't know either. What about it wolf? Ready to take on this action?
I find it funny insofar as it’s hilarious to me that the same people who say you shouldn’t be down on someone for things they had nothing to do with like race (I agree) openly hiss and spit about “white people”. What is so awful about “white Anglo Saxon traditions” political or otherwise? What specifically are they talking about? Is it just woke horse shit for provocation’s sake? Can you imagine someone saying something derogatory about “African American traditions”? This shit has gotten so stupid.
I don't get this. It seems to me that what's being laughed at here is the idea that MTG has the slightest clue what she's talking about and since she doesn't it's a good bet that whatever she's doing is a cover for the same old shit she's been slinging since she started slinging shit.

I also disagree with you more generally for standard reasons but I really don't see how the old argument about white people dont get no respect even applies here.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Ha! Whatever else, we do seem to have similar tastes in the vernacular. :lol:
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

I don’t care about MTG but if she pisses off the other assholes in Washington and the media and the people who think everything is racist because they don’t like it then I guess she serves a purpose. When those people are pissed off it makes me happy.

As for white people gettin no respect, I didn’t say that or think it. Calling racial wolf crying what it is might not be popular but that’s not important to me.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:21 pm
305 Engine wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:29 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:20 pm


I don't have a good handle on just how funny this is on your end, but my guess is that the answer is no, it's not as funny here. For one simple reason: I doubt that there are more than a few thousand people in this country (population 330 million) who have any idea what anglo saxon political traditions are and I'd bet my entire retirement account that Marjorie Taylor Greene is not one of them. I have less of a handle on Gosar but I'm pretty sure he doesn't know either. What about it wolf? Ready to take on this action?
Taken literally, "Anglo Saxon political traditions" means a witan of lords and bishops advising the king, building alliances with areas under the influence of the Danish and trying to battle incursions from the Welsh.

I'm guessing that this isn't what these idiots mean and it's really just code for more racist stuff.
Yeah, I had visions of drinking mead, tearing huge gobs of meat off even huger carcasses to eat w/ your hands while banging on the table demanding more wenches. But of course that would be after the formal agenda when they'd draw lots to see who would get to claim that they brought back the one true cross or chalice from the Crusades.

Oh yeah, as I'm sure you already know, racist motivations are a total given.

All that said, it's still waaay cool to see the more or less original Magna Carta at the British Library.

But of even more importance, when is Jose Marinho going to be fired?
The Magna Carta holds a lot more gravitas in the states than it does in the Uk. That fact in itself is quite interesting.

Personally, I'm not a big soccer fan. I'm Welsh (Not the Wolf kind, I pay my debts. The etymology of "Welch" I'll leave for now) and my main sport is rugby. My main question regarding Tottenham is whether they'll keep Gareth Bale.

Broadly speaking guys, if you use "Anglo Saxon" as a shorthand for "Pro White politics" then strictly speaking it's not too accurate in terms of history and using it in that sense isn't clever. Obviously certain words or phrases take on different meanings over time and that is normal but I always think its good for folks to educate themselves about the words they use.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

305 Engine wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:42 pm
The Magna Carta holds a lot more gravitas in the states than it does in the Uk. That fact in itself is quite interesting.
I did not know this and no explanation for it springs immediately to mind other than America's longstanding but waning Anglophilia. OTOH, the thing has quite a place of honor at the Library.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Cole Younger wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:42 pm
As for white people gettin no respect, I didn’t say that or think it.
Yeah, my bad. If my wife has told me once she's told me a thousand times that my own peculiar shorthand will get me in trouble, and it does. I did not mean that literally but rather than trying to unwind it I'll just take it as a moment lost, a lesson I'll learn eventually and move on w/ an apology.
Cole Younger wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:42 pm
Calling racial wolf crying what it is might not be popular but that’s not important to me.
Cole Younger wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:42 pm
the people who think everything is racist because they don’t like it then I guess she serves a purpose. When those people are pissed off it makes me happy.
.

Yeah, I know you think this. Sometimes you're right on this subject and I really have no wish to be identified with the people who cry racist at any and every opportunity. OTOH, sometimes a racist is just a racist. And sometimes calling something or someone racist is true. I'm not going to convince you of anything on this subject and you're not gonna convince me. I just feel obligated to note that sweeping statements of non-racism are no more convincing than sweeping statements of racism. And you are more than welcome to Marjorie Taylor Greene.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

305 Engine wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:42 pm
My main question regarding Tottenham is whether they'll keep Gareth Bale.
Yeah, Gareth Bale was my first love when I first started following the Premier League and Spurs in particular. I was overjoyed when he returned this year. Truth be told, though, it hasn't been a great fit. I don't know enough about the sport to know whether he's declined (which most of the commentators who do the US broadcasts think) or he's got the wrong manager but I'd like to see him get another crack at it w/ a different manager.

I know you said that soccer's not your primary interest, but I'll ask anyway: Why is Great Britain in the Olympics but England, Wales and Scotland separate World Cup entities?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:25 pm
Context is everything. What a Nobel Prize Winner says in the NYT is judged, at least by me, on a different scale than a blog dispute about popular fiction.
For me, a personal attack is a personal attack. Krugman's is weak sauce. And she's probably going to win the most prestigious award in SF writing for that ill-tempered rant. It's likely to cause immense community damage in the process. It's not a huge world, but I don't want to see it get fucked up.

Plus I'll put up the money, if you can figure out a way for our descendants to collect on the bet, that I can name five SF writers and get at least three right as being accepted in a hundred years as significant mainstream literary writers.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:10 am
beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:25 pm
Context is everything. What a Nobel Prize Winner says in the NYT is judged, at least by me, on a different scale than a blog dispute about popular fiction.
For me, a personal attack is a personal attack. Krugman's is weak sauce. And she's probably going to win the most prestigious award in SF writing for that ill-tempered rant. It's likely to cause immense community damage in the process. It's not a huge world, but I don't want to see it get fucked up.

Plus I'll put up the money, if you can figure out a way for our descendants to collect on the bet, that I can name five SF writers and get at least three right as being accepted in a hundred years as significant mainstream literary writers.
I was not in any way dissing science fiction as a literary genre nor do I need any convincing on that subject.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Cole Younger wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:42 pm
Calling racial wolf crying what it is might not be popular but that’s not important to me.
I imagine that you're not likely to be swayed by Heather Cox Richardson's views, but when Richardson, Kevin McCarthy and Liz Cheney all recognize nativist, racist dog whistling for what it is, perhaps this is not an example of racial wolf calling. You might well say that McCarthy and Cheney are just different parts of the swamp and that their views carry no weight with you (and I would agree that McCarthy and Cheney are long time swamp insiders) but i dunno, if I was looking across no man's land at Richardson, McCarthy and Cheney and my foxhole included Marjorie Taylor Greene, Matt Gaetz and Paul Gosar I might have second thoughts.

From Professor Richardson's 4/16 newsletter:

Today, news broke that a number of pro-Trump House Republicans, including Representatives Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA), Matt Gaetz (R-FL), and Paul Gosar (R-AZ), are organizing the “America First Caucus,” which calls for “a degree of ideological flexibility, a certain intellectual boldness… to follow in President Trump’s footsteps, and potentially step on some toes and sacrifice sacred cows for the good of the American nation.”

The seven-page document outlining their ideas, obtained by Punchbowl News, is a list of the grievances popular in right-wing media. It calls for regulation of “Big Tech,” which right-wing commentators claim is biased against them; an end to coronavirus lockdowns, which the authors say “have ruined many businesses to bankruptcy such that many Americans are left unemployed and potentially destitute”; opposition to “wasteful social justice programs like the Green New Deal”; support for oil and gas; and rejection of “globalist institutions.”

And, with extraordinary clarity, it shows the ideology that underpins these positions, an ideology eerily reminiscent of that of the elite slaveholders of the 1850s American South.

“America was founded on the basis of individual and state sovereignty,” the document says, but that federalism has been undermined by decadent and corrupt bureaucrats in Washington. The authors propose to get rid of regulation and the regulatory state, thus restoring individual freedom. This is the exact argument that animated elite slaveholders, who vowed to keep the national government small so it could not intrude on their institution of human enslavement.

The authors of the America First Caucus platform lay out very clearly the racial argument behind the political one. America, the authors write, is based on “a common respect for uniquely Anglo-Saxon political traditions,” and “mass immigration” must be stopped. “Anglo-Saxon” is an old-fashioned historical description that has become a dog whistle for white supremacy. Scholars who study the Medieval world note that visions of a historical “white” England are fantasies, myths that are set in an imaginary past.

This was a myth welcome to pre-Civil War white southerners who fancied themselves the modern version of ancient English lords and used the concept of “Anglo-Saxon” superiority to justify spreading west over Indigenous and Mexican peoples. It was a myth welcome in the 1920s to members of the Ku Klux Klan, who claimed that “only as we follow in the pathway of the principles of our Anglo-Saxon father and express in our life the spirit and genius of their ideals may we hope to maintain the supremacy of the race, and to perpetuate our inheritance of liberty.” And it is a myth that appeals to modern-day white supremacists, who imitate what they think are ancient crests for their clothing, weapons, and organizations.

Emphasizing their white nationalism, the members of the America First Caucus call for “the architectural, engineering and aesthetic value that befits the progeny of European architecture… stunningly, classically, beautiful, befitting a world power and source of freedom.” They also condemn the current education system, calling it “progressive indoctrination” and saying it works “to actively undermine pride in America’s great history and is actively hostile to the civic and cultural assimilation necessary for a strong nation.” They conclude that “The future of America’s position in the world depends on addressing the crisis in education, at both the primary and secondary level.” They envision a world in which people who think as they do control the nation.

Indeed, the document embraces the Big Lie that Biden did not, in fact win the 2020 election. Despite the fact that all evidence proves that the 2020 election was one of the cleanest in our history and that President Joe Biden won, fair and square, the America First Caucus Policy Platform insists that the 2020 election was characterized by “massive voter fraud” and calls for limiting the vote.

Behind all this, of course, is the idea that a Democratic victory in an election is, by definition, impossible.

This extraordinary document makes it clear that Republican leaders are reaping what they began to sow during the Nixon administration, when party operatives nailed together a coalition by artificially dividing the nation between hardworking white taxpayers on the one hand and, on the other, people of color and feminist women whose demand for equality, the argument went, was code for government handouts. In the years since 1970, Republicans have called for deregulation and tax cuts that help the wealthy, arguing that such cuts advance individual liberty. All the while, they have relied on racism and sexism to rally voters with the argument that Black and Brown voters and feminist women—“feminazis,” in radio host Rush Limbaugh’s world—wanted big government so it would give them handouts.

It was a political equation that worked with a wink and a nod until former president Trump put the racism and sexism openly on the table and encouraged his supporters to turn against their opponents. They have now embraced open white supremacy.

The platform of the America First Caucus appears to have woken up some of the business Republicans—who want tax cuts and deregulation, but not the mindless white nationalism of the Trump supporters—to what has taken over their party. Today House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) took to Twitter to say that “America is built on the idea that we are all created equal and success is earned through honest, hard work. It isn’t built on identity, race, or religion. The Republican Party is the party of Lincoln & the party of more opportunity for all Americans—not nativist dog whistles.”

Representative Liz Cheney (R-WY), the third most powerful Republican leader in the House, tweeted, “Republicans believe in equal opportunity, freedom, and justice for all. We teach our children the values of tolerance, decency and moral courage. Racism, nativism, and anti-Semitism are evil. History teaches us all we have an obligation to confront & reject such malicious hate.”

In an op-ed in the Washington Post today, former President George W. Bush defended immigration in our past, present, and future as “a great and defining asset of the United States.” “New Americans are just as much a force for good now, with their energy, idealism and love of country, as they have always been,” he wrote as he described his new book, made up of portraits he has painted of Americans who came originally from other nations.

Will the business Republicans’ newfound inclusiveness manage to reclaim their party? It’s not at all clear that what conservative commentator Tom Nichols calls “an extremely dangerous authoritarian party” will not win out.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

305 Engine
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:31 pm
305 Engine wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:42 pm
The Magna Carta holds a lot more gravitas in the states than it does in the Uk. That fact in itself is quite interesting.
I did not know this and no explanation for it springs immediately to mind other than America's longstanding but waning Anglophilia. OTOH, the thing has quite a place of honor at the Library.
If you go to Runnymede, the only memorial to Magna Carta there was paid for by the American Bar association. I think I'm right in saying that the majority of tourists they get there are also American.

The difference seems to be that in the states, Magna Carta is seen as a precursor to the United States constitution, and so it takes on a semi mythic status. In the Uk, it's seen as important, but not more important than lots of other key dates. It's something most people have heard of, but they won't necessarily know exactly why it's important.

305 Engine
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:53 am

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:53 pm
305 Engine wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:42 pm
My main question regarding Tottenham is whether they'll keep Gareth Bale.
Yeah, Gareth Bale was my first love when I first started following the Premier League and Spurs in particular. I was overjoyed when he returned this year. Truth be told, though, it hasn't been a great fit. I don't know enough about the sport to know whether he's declined (which most of the commentators who do the US broadcasts think) or he's got the wrong manager but I'd like to see him get another crack at it w/ a different manager.

I know you said that soccer's not your primary interest, but I'll ask anyway: Why is Great Britain in the Olympics but England, Wales and Scotland separate World Cup entities?
People who know more about soccer than me seem to think Bale just needs a shot of confidence after a messed up time in Madrid. I only ever watch him when he plays for Wales but he seems to be playing well.

With a couple of exceptions, the Olympics requires countries to be fully sovereign nation states as defined by the UN. FIFA is a bit looser. If you're a nation with some but not full autonomy (and nobody objects) you can join FIFA and play international soccer.

John A Arkansawyer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:20 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:10 pm
There will undoubtedly be a disaster right out of science fiction or dystopian fiction but it's hard to say precisely what or when.
Are you certain our current life in the panopticon isn't it?
I mean, maybe it's not. But I wouldn't bet on it.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

Bubba I’m going to address the longer post later when I have more time but “You’re more than welcome to Marjory Taylor Green.” made me laugh harder than it probably had any right to. Man that cracked me up.

That’s how I feel about all of them. Her and AOC both and all the rest. They are titts on a boar hog useless.

Agree that we aren’t going to convince each other of anything. I would never disrespect you by trying. That’s a level of arrogance I want nothing to do with.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

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