The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:48 am
If you want to understand the mindset of anti vaxxers who continue to refuse to get vaccinated against covid even as the virus ravages their ranks, you might want to look to Massachusetts. Here, the state Republican Party and Trump are gloating that they forced moderate, old style Republican incumbent governor Charlie Baker out of the race for another term. As most know, MA is a very blue state that has regularly elected old fashioned Republican governors but there is virtually no chance that that the party's preferred candidate, a Trumpist, can win election here so it appears that Trump and the GOP would rather lose control of 1 of 50 statehouses rather than see a moderate Republican elected. I personally don't understand either viewpoint but they seem very much connected. Something about noses and faces.
In the case of driving out the moderates, the Trumpublicans are no different from Leninists: Purges make the party stronger.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:18 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:48 am
If you want to understand the mindset of anti vaxxers who continue to refuse to get vaccinated against covid even as the virus ravages their ranks, you might want to look to Massachusetts. Here, the state Republican Party and Trump are gloating that they forced moderate, old style Republican incumbent governor Charlie Baker out of the race for another term. As most know, MA is a very blue state that has regularly elected old fashioned Republican governors but there is virtually no chance that that the party's preferred candidate, a Trumpist, can win election here so it appears that Trump and the GOP would rather lose control of 1 of 50 statehouses rather than see a moderate Republican elected. I personally don't understand either viewpoint but they seem very much connected. Something about noses and faces.
In the case of driving out the moderates, the Trumpublicans are no different from Leninists: Purges make the party stronger.
That analogy doesn't work for me. The Leninists didn't have to worry about winning elections; at least for the moment, Trumpists do.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Clams wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:42 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:48 am
If you want to understand the mindset of anti vaxxers who continue to refuse to get vaccinated against covid even as the virus ravages their ranks, you might want to look to Massachusetts. Here, the state Republican Party and Trump are gloating that they forced moderate, old style Republican incumbent governor Charlie Baker out of the race for another term. As most know, MA is a very blue state that has regularly elected old fashioned Republican governors but there is virtually no chance that that the party's preferred candidate, a Trumpist, can win election here so it appears that Trump and the GOP would rather lose control of 1 of 50 statehouses rather than see a moderate Republican elected. I personally don't understand either viewpoint but they seem very much connected. Something about noses and faces.
Makes about as much sense as Dr Oz carpetbagging his way into the PA senate race, but here we are.
Sort of like Hillary Rodham Clinton running for Senate in NY?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

pearlbeer wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:17 pm
Clams wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:42 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:48 am
If you want to understand the mindset of anti vaxxers who continue to refuse to get vaccinated against covid even as the virus ravages their ranks, you might want to look to Massachusetts. Here, the state Republican Party and Trump are gloating that they forced moderate, old style Republican incumbent governor Charlie Baker out of the race for another term. As most know, MA is a very blue state that has regularly elected old fashioned Republican governors but there is virtually no chance that that the party's preferred candidate, a Trumpist, can win election here so it appears that Trump and the GOP would rather lose control of 1 of 50 statehouses rather than see a moderate Republican elected. I personally don't understand either viewpoint but they seem very much connected. Something about noses and faces.
Makes about as much sense as Dr Oz carpetbagging his way into the PA senate race, but here we are.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:03 pm
John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:18 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:48 am
If you want to understand the mindset of anti vaxxers who continue to refuse to get vaccinated against covid even as the virus ravages their ranks, you might want to look to Massachusetts. Here, the state Republican Party and Trump are gloating that they forced moderate, old style Republican incumbent governor Charlie Baker out of the race for another term. As most know, MA is a very blue state that has regularly elected old fashioned Republican governors but there is virtually no chance that that the party's preferred candidate, a Trumpist, can win election here so it appears that Trump and the GOP would rather lose control of 1 of 50 statehouses rather than see a moderate Republican elected. I personally don't understand either viewpoint but they seem very much connected. Something about noses and faces.
In the case of driving out the moderates, the Trumpublicans are no different from Leninists: Purges make the party stronger.
That analogy doesn't work for me. The Leninists didn't have to worry about winning elections; at least for the moment, Trumpists do.
You gotta take the long view!
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:12 pm
You gotta take the long view!
:lol:

Hmmm... why am I laughing?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

The Roe v Wade SCOTUS ruling is going to cause a lot of stress in the short term. Reports are that should they take it up, that they won't make a ruling until June
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

Zip City wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:28 pm
The Roe v Wade SCOTUS ruling is going to cause a lot of stress in the short term. Reports are that should they take it up, that they won't make a ruling until June
This issue is (and has been for some time) a 60%/40% issue. We are being ruled by the minority. That's pretty much an expected and accepted outcome. I can site lots more examples (guns, weed, insurance, etc) if needed, but this is the country we now live in. It's happening...it's happened.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:21 pm
John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:12 pm
You gotta take the long view!
:lol:

Hmmm... why am I laughing?
Laughter, like comment, is free; crying uses up handkerchiefs.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Zip City wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:28 pm
The Roe v Wade SCOTUS ruling is going to cause a lot of stress in the short term. Reports are that should they take it up, that they won't make a ruling until June
I'm not sure what you mean by "should they take it up." They took it up months ago and it was argued yesterday to great fanfare. It is fairly customary for the Court to release many major decisions at the end of its term in June and while it could come sooner I suspect the Justices will want to be on the way to their summer retreats when this decision is issued.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

The Danger of Discussing ‘Maker and Taker’ States
When Democrats talk about ‘moocher’ red states receiving more federal benefits than they give in federal taxes, they reveal their elitism and reinforce ‘welfare queen’ rhetoric.

The concept of “moocher states” is about the most tone-deaf Democratic message since Hillary Clinton uttered the phrase “basket of deplorables.” Directed at red states that voted for Trump, the framing is embarrassingly elitist, cutting against the spirit of inclusive social and economic development that has defined the Democratic Party’s better legacies. For a party agonizing over how to appeal to voters outside its loyal constituencies, it threatens to undermine any outreach to less prosperous regions and distract from the considerable investments that the American Rescue Plan and the recently signed bipartisan infrastructure framework contain.
I know when I hear the word "moocher", I remember how much Ayn Rand loved using that word.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

This is a very worrisome analysis of why the Texas abortion law is so much worse than it appears:

It Goes Way Beyond Abortion

The thesis is that the mechanisms used in that law amount to a new Nullification method. It left me feeling quite bereft.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:32 am
The Danger of Discussing ‘Maker and Taker’ States
When Democrats talk about ‘moocher’ red states receiving more federal benefits than they give in federal taxes, they reveal their elitism and reinforce ‘welfare queen’ rhetoric.

The concept of “moocher states” is about the most tone-deaf Democratic message since Hillary Clinton uttered the phrase “basket of deplorables.” Directed at red states that voted for Trump, the framing is embarrassingly elitist, cutting against the spirit of inclusive social and economic development that has defined the Democratic Party’s better legacies. For a party agonizing over how to appeal to voters outside its loyal constituencies, it threatens to undermine any outreach to less prosperous regions and distract from the considerable investments that the American Rescue Plan and the recently signed bipartisan infrastructure framework contain.
I know when I hear the word "moocher", I remember how much Ayn Rand loved using that word.
I didn't know that the Democrats talk about "moocher" states in a formal, "official talking points" kind of way. I've understood it more as an expression of anger from certain parts of the wider population in certain geographic areas (sometimes including me) in reaction to equally moronic comments from the other side of the equation. If this is in fact part of the Dems' platform or outlook, they're even bigger idiots than I thought.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:42 am
This is a very worrisome analysis of why the Texas abortion law is so much worse than it appears:

It Goes Way Beyond Abortion

The thesis is that the mechanisms used in that law amount to a new Nullification method. It left me feeling quite bereft.
This is absolutely correct and, among other things, an incredible indictment of the media coverage of this matter (the author also indicts pro-choice groups for failing to make this clear which may be true, I don't know). In this case, the initial reporting by much of the MSM was factually correct but completely wrong.

The TX statute isn't "just" about abortion, and nullification is just a part of it. It's also about vigilante justice and blatant disregard for the Constitution, the Court and the fundamentals of our Constitutional system (much of which is included or implied in the term "nullification" but in this case I think it's important to spell it out). It is a broad "fuck you" to the Supreme Court and it would appear that a majority of the Court likes getting fucked and has asked for more. Coverage of the TX law and challenges to it that don't incorporate all of this are at best a disservice to the public and perhaps something like media malpractice on a grand scale.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

It has been said in these pages and elsewhere that climate change is not a working class matter. That working people (and the poor) have more important, more pressing issues to deal with like keeping roofs over their heads and food on the table. That harping on climate change just shows how out of touch the President and the Democratic Party are with "real people." Well guess what? Not only was that always a less than compelling or convincing argument , it is becoming more tragically outpaced by events every single goddamn day.

Did you see a lot of rich people in the pictures from Kentucky and Tennessee? A lot of destroyed mansions or mcmansions? A lot of overturned Teslas and BMW's? No, me neither. The fact is that the environment and climate change is one of the most obvious issues of inequity out there: It's almost always the working class and the poor who take it on the chin and up the ass when natural disasters strike *. Sure, a hurricane or tsunami might destroy some rich people's beach houses, or a fire on the West Coast might destroy some million dollar homes that shouldn't have been built in the first place, but those beach house owners will be safely back in their primary residences and those fire victims will be counting their insurance money while the working people who provide the lobsters, gasoline, lawnmowing and other services are sleeping in the high school gym.

Misguided loudmouths from the media, particularly the right leaning media always ask, "but Mr. President can you say that THIS storm was caused by climate change?" The answer to that is almost always going to be "no," or at best "I don't know," as if that makes the slightest bit of difference. As usual, the joke is on the people these members of the media pretend to represent with their down to earth, anti-elite affect that (a) tends to hide their Ivy League degrees and (b) is just more sleight of hand to make money off the vulnerable. I can't look at these pictures anymore without getting sick to my stomach.

While it really doesn't matter very much I wonder how those politicians who downplay 750,000 covid deaths while moaning for the cameras about 100 deaths sleep at night. Which is not to dismiss the 100 tragically dead, but to point out yet again the absurdity of the covid is no big deal crowd. Just imagine what would happen to me if I were to suggest that a statistically significant portion of those who died in these tornadoes are obese (which is very likely to be true though I don't know it for a fact) so who cares, they were gonna die soon anyway. I can't believe I'm writing about this shit on the verge of 2022 yet here we are continuing to pay the consequences for our limitless stupidity and short sightedness.

*And they are almost always the ones most affected by environmental catastrophes like Love Canal and Flint.

Edited once to add the footnote and a second time to tone down some of the excesses and to attempt greater accuracy.
Last edited by beantownbubba on Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:51 pm
I didn't know that the Democrats talk about "moocher" states in a formal, "official talking points" kind of way. I've understood it more as an expression of anger from certain parts of the wider population in certain geographic areas (sometimes including me) in reaction to equally moronic comments from the other side of the equation. If this is in fact part of the Dems' platform or outlook, they're even bigger idiots than I thought.
This is certainly Gottenheimer's outlook but not, thank goodness, part of the party platform. I hope it stays that way. It appeals to peoples' worser angels and would likely catch on if it were pushed by a competent candidate.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

The supreme court’s abortion ruling is even more unsettling than it may seem
In her dissent, Justice Sonia Sotomayor compared SB8 to the views of John C Calhoun – a nineteenth-century pro-slavery campaigner who argued that states have the right to nullify federal laws that they do not like. America fought its civil war in no small part over this question.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

From the I See A Little Opportunism In Your Look Dept.:

Governor Newsom Statement on Supreme Court Decision
I am outraged by yesterday’s U.S. Supreme Court decision allowing Texas’s ban on most abortion services to remain in place, and largely endorsing Texas’s scheme to insulate its law from the fundamental protections of Roe v. Wade. But if states can now shield their laws from review by the federal courts that compare assault weapons to Swiss Army knives, then California will use that authority to protect people’s lives, where Texas used it to put women in harm’s way.

I have directed my staff to work with the Legislature and the Attorney General on a bill that would create a right of action allowing private citizens to seek injunctive relief, and statutory damages of at least $10,000 per violation plus costs and attorney’s fees, against anyone who manufactures, distributes, or sells an assault weapon or ghost gun kit or parts in the State of California. If the most efficient way to keep these devastating weapons off our streets is to add the threat of private lawsuits, we should do just that.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 7:19 am
From the I See A Little Opportunism In Your Look Dept.:

Governor Newsom Statement on Supreme Court Decision
I am outraged by yesterday’s U.S. Supreme Court decision allowing Texas’s ban on most abortion services to remain in place, and largely endorsing Texas’s scheme to insulate its law from the fundamental protections of Roe v. Wade. But if states can now shield their laws from review by the federal courts that compare assault weapons to Swiss Army knives, then California will use that authority to protect people’s lives, where Texas used it to put women in harm’s way.

I have directed my staff to work with the Legislature and the Attorney General on a bill that would create a right of action allowing private citizens to seek injunctive relief, and statutory damages of at least $10,000 per violation plus costs and attorney’s fees, against anyone who manufactures, distributes, or sells an assault weapon or ghost gun kit or parts in the State of California. If the most efficient way to keep these devastating weapons off our streets is to add the threat of private lawsuits, we should do just that.
Pointed. Clever. Even a little bit cute. Not even the Supreme Court can fail to get this message. The partisan hacks are probably already working on a "principled legal philosophy" that will enable them to distinguish abortion from guns. [In case that was too subtle, that last sentence was sarcastic.]

I get it. And I can't and won't make any objections to it. But I have to say that I have the sneaking suspicion that the US in 2021-22 is starting to resemble the Europe of 1913-14 with the states playing the European countries; governors, congressmen and various provocateurs playing the parts of prime ministers, foreign ministers and provocateurs; and various radicals of all sorts making everyone somewhere between uneasy and scared. . Each move and countermove might make sense in the context of the previous one, but in the big picture, in the linear progression from A to Z where one still remembers A and B and not just X and Y, the whole thing is completely nuts and totally inexplicable. This just isn't a good way to run a country. And in case anybody here slept through class that day, WWI was an absolute fucking disaster by pretty much every measure, with its most notable result being WWII which I'd like to think is nobody's idea of a good outcome.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:51 pm
John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:32 am
The Danger of Discussing ‘Maker and Taker’ States
When Democrats talk about ‘moocher’ red states receiving more federal benefits than they give in federal taxes, they reveal their elitism and reinforce ‘welfare queen’ rhetoric.

The concept of “moocher states” is about the most tone-deaf Democratic message since Hillary Clinton uttered the phrase “basket of deplorables.” Directed at red states that voted for Trump, the framing is embarrassingly elitist, cutting against the spirit of inclusive social and economic development that has defined the Democratic Party’s better legacies. For a party agonizing over how to appeal to voters outside its loyal constituencies, it threatens to undermine any outreach to less prosperous regions and distract from the considerable investments that the American Rescue Plan and the recently signed bipartisan infrastructure framework contain.
I know when I hear the word "moocher", I remember how much Ayn Rand loved using that word.
I didn't know that the Democrats talk about "moocher" states in a formal, "official talking points" kind of way. I've understood it more as an expression of anger from certain parts of the wider population in certain geographic areas (sometimes including me) in reaction to equally moronic comments from the other side of the equation. If this is in fact part of the Dems' platform or outlook, they're even bigger idiots than I thought.
I think this gets to the heart of the matter. OT1H it's ridiculous for politicians and ordinary citizens to bash other citizens and states based on silly stereotypes, lack of information/facts and/or to gain temporary advantage, hypocrisy be damned. It's also ridiculous to suggest that necessary aid not be given in order to punish people for their immaturity, ignorance or, in the case of Rand Paul types, evil manipulations and machinations for personal advantage. OTOH it's frustrating and exhausting as hell to have to listen to all that bullshit from people claiming moral superiority for their independence when they don't understand how dependent they are or how things actually work. A little more humility and a lot more facts from everyone would be a really good thing.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Mundane Mayhem »



A gobsmacking portrait of one of our political parties (mis)leading its loyal adherents off a fucking cliff.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:13 pm
A gobsmacking portrait of one of our political parties (mis)leading its loyal adherents off a fucking cliff.
Owning the libs by dying would seem to be a step too far, but nothing seems to matter. Which is crazy and, at least to me, impossible to understand.

As I've said before I discount the seriousness of those who claim a principled stand against the vaccine, whether the stated reason be liberty or fear of unproven medicine. But here's the thing, or at least one thing if you fear that we don't know enough about the long term effects of the vaccine, if the choice is materially increasing the odds that you might die now versus possibly suffering unknown side effects of unknown severity later, how is not taking the vaccine the better choice?

Note that charts of this type are at least a little skewed by the likelihood of Republicans to be older and thus more likely to be in a high risk group, but I suspect that even if adjusted, the bottom line would be much the same.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

NB: As frustrating as it is, calling out politicians for their hypocrisy and less than well thought out proclamations is really old dog bites man territory. I'm trying to get at something a little different here, but I can't swear that the difference is as big as I think it is.

Meet our economists in chief:

On one side, we have Joe Manchin. Most of what he says and a lot of what he does is tired and predictable and easily chalked up to the usual political sins like corruption. But what I don't understand is why nobody (as far as I know) has challenged him on his $1.75 Trillion line in the sand. Like, "say, Joe, how have you calculated that precisely $1.75T is not too inflationary but $1.76T is? " "What level of inflation do you regard as acceptable and why is it more acceptable than a tenth of a percent higher? How did you reach these conclusions?" It drives me crazy that the media accepts his position as rational without questioning it on its own terms.

On the same side, but different, we have Rand Paul. Senator Paul justifies his requests for aid for victims of the KY tornadoes, as opposed to his opposition to aid for the victims of other disasters in other places in America, by saying that he "never" voted against aid, he voted against unpaid for aid (i.e. aid not covered by additional revenue). Why has nobody asked him how the aid he wants for KY is being paid for? He'd presumably say that it's already in the budget. But in a budget that hasn't been balanced in more than 2 decades, on a balance sheet that is trillions of dollars in the red, not a single dollar of federal expenditures is "paid for" in any meaningful sense of the term. It's all the same funny money to which he objects when the money would help, say, New Yorkers. And yet nobody (as far as I know) calls him on this absurd math.

As that noted philosopher, cortez the killer knows, nobody is entitled to their own facts. The problem is that at this point unreality is so baked into our political process and our political gamesmanship that it becomes almost impossible to cut through all the bullshit.

BTW, and just for yucks, the current US national debt works out to $229,706 per taxpayer and $87,148 for every citizen in the US. That's right, a baby born today in the US of A starts out his or her life over 87 thousand dollars in debt. Welcome to the world!
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:00 pm
The problem is that at this point unreality is so baked into our political process and our political gamesmanship that it becomes almost impossible to cut through all the bullshit.
Bingo!

Facts are all but irrelevant in the current political landscape. Unfortunately, it seems to have morphed into a never-ending game of "Yeah, but..." where the whole point is to turn the attention away from the uncomfortable hypocrisy or cruelty of a certain action or position and rely on the, as you say, baked-in biases that a good amount of American citizens possess with regards to which side they identify with in the Elephant vs. the Donkey game.

I've been called a number of things, bubba, but noted philosopher is a first.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Beaverdam »

I rarely enter political discussions with folks whom I don’t know well. My parents always taught me that discussing politics was basically “rude,” as I might run the risk of offending.

That said, I know most of you quite well….

Confession, I honestly would have considered myself a Republican (or at least a fiscal conservative) as a young man in my 20’s and early 30’s, but I married a lifelong democrat (Bryan’s/Grandpa’s daughter) who slowly eroded my conservative sentiments. I would not have fancied myself leaning democrat when I begin listening to DBT (after several years of marriage) so my immersion in the band and its culture probably helped the cause as well.

I do however miss the lack of moderates in today’s political climates. I believe we do still have moderates, but they are a dying breed as extremism sells; this scares the piss out of me, but for the sake of my children I have to hold to my faith that this country will endure. Some of you may think moderates won’t “get stuff done,” but I think we need people who can at least understand one another…I mean the last time we didn’t have that, the Civil War erupted!

Light Saturday morning coffee talk…

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tinnitus photography
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

the polarization of our country is unfortunately still accelerating. but mostly to the right, i think. Obama was branded a far-out liberal where by most measures he was a centrist.

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Flea
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Flea »

tinnitus photography wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:45 pm
the polarization of our country is unfortunately still accelerating. but mostly to the right, i think. Obama was branded a far-out liberal where by most measures he was a centrist.
yes, this
Now it's dark.

John A Arkansawyer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

What happens if two sides get so far apart they don't even share an Overton window? If the far edges of what the two sides accept as reasonable opinion leave a great big gap between them?
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

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tinnitus photography
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

sadly we're gonna find out, and the Republican strategy of gerrymandering and voting rights restriction is going to try to keep them in power as much as possible.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Dana Milbank's column in today's WaPo focuses on the work of Professor Barbara F. Walter of the UCSD who is part of a CIA working group called the Political Instability Task Force that rates the likelihood of civil disturbance erupting in countries around the world (except for the US, because as we know the CIA never operates in the US). Applying the same criteria to the US, she finds us dangerously close to civil war, about halfway on her indicator scale and already closer to authoritarian than democratic. Milbank also noted that "The Stockholm-based International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance put the United States on a list of “backsliding democracies” in a report last month. “The United States, the bastion of global democracy, fell victim to authoritarian tendencies itself," the report said."

Troubled, troubling times.
Beaverdam wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:13 pm
I do however miss the lack of moderates in today’s political climates. I believe we do still have moderates, but they are a dying breed as extremism sells; this scares the piss out of me, but for the sake of my children I have to hold to my faith that this country will endure. Some of you may think moderates won’t “get stuff done,” but I think we need people who can at least understand one another…I mean the last time we didn’t have that, the Civil War erupted!


I think that most people wish there were more moderates around in the sense of people who can work together, who can respectfully debate ideas based on shared values and agreed upon facts, prioritize issues on the basis of those values and facts and come to sensible compromise solutions to address big problems. But there is a real question as to what it means to be a moderate in the current environment to say nothing of the many questions wrapped into the big question of what forces that are driving so many people to more extreme positions? I'd say that the odds of answering that question are pretty low and without facing those issues there is no chance for a middle ground to emerge and no way for ambitious leaders to stake out that ground and lead the country towards it. I am intentionally avoiding the question of what that middle ground might look like and whether that middle ground is even desirable.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

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