Coronavirus - COVID-19

[beantownbubba]

PS I mean "doesnt seem to matter very much" in the larger context of the country and its divisions, not anything about our interactions.

[Zip City]

Doesn't seem to be a lot of screaming happening here. Just some people offering data and news stories, and others ignoring everything in deference to their contrarian opinions

[tinnitus photography]

Well it seems like we are back to screaming at each other. Disappointing but I guess that’s what passes for normal now along with a lot of other things that aren’t good.

i said that i was done voicing my opinions or commenting on others re: COVID and vaccinations etc as it's pretty clear (i think) what my positions are. and i intend to stay true to my position.

however, i will ask this question:

The concept of total government control over medicine is now commonplace instead of something most people argued against.

It is now (mostly) accepted that the government can force businesses to close and people to stay home whenever they choose.

with respect to a highly communicable disease and how to deal with it, wouldn't that fall under public policy and public health? if the gov't doesn't set the agenda in how to deal with it, who should? Should it really be up to individuals?

[Cole Younger]

Well it seems like we are back to screaming at each other. Disappointing but I guess that’s what passes for normal now along with a lot of other things that aren’t good.

i said that i was done voicing my opinions or commenting on others re: COVID and vaccinations etc as it's pretty clear (i think) what my positions are. and i intend to stay true to my position.

however, i will ask this question:

The concept of total government control over medicine is now commonplace instead of something most people argued against.

It is now (mostly) accepted that the government can force businesses to close and people to stay home whenever they choose.

with respect to a highly communicable disease and how to deal with it, wouldn't that fall under public policy and public health? if the gov't doesn't set the agenda in how to deal with it, who should? Should it really be up to individuals?

When the death rate is as low as it is with this I don’t see how it’s justified for the government to be able to shut down businesses and make people stay inside. If the government hadn’t done so much to prove that is not trustworthy well I’d still have a problem with it to be honest but it probably wouldn’t bother me as much. This seems especially true considering such a high percentage of the people killed by this virus were already in bad health. Since this is the internet and I am in a very small minority here as far as my political positions are concerned I will clarify that I’m not saying those who have died are unimportant just because it’s a small number and the death rate of this virus is tiny.

[Cole Younger]

Doesn't seem to be a lot of screaming happening here. Just some people offering data and news stories, and others ignoring everything in deference to their contrarian opinions

Well bubba seems to think the screaming has resumed too so it’s not just me for whatever that’s worth.

[Cole Younger]

PS I mean "doesnt seem to matter very much" in the larger context of the country and its divisions, not anything about our interactions.

Oh I knew what you meant. Yeah I don’t know what’s to be done either. It’s situations like this that Stein’s Law is somewhat comforting to me. Whatever can’t go on forever will come to an end. I say somewhat comforting because what might bring it to an end might not be something any of us are going to like.

[John A Arkansawyer]

Doesn't seem to be a lot of screaming happening here. Just some people offering data and news stories, and others ignoring everything in deference to their contrarian opinions

Well bubba seems to think the screaming has resumed too so it’s not just me for whatever that’s worth.

I probably started this round and I'm having a hard time regretting it. Not that I'm going to do any screaming at you, Cole.

Something not screamy at all:

Out of Patience with the CDC? Grow the F Up

Okay, the title is screamy, but the article is anything but:

This isn’t a brief for anyone at CDC. Like I said, I think they’ve gotten some key decisions wrong, in ways I’ll describe in a moment. Mostly they are not clinical decisions but decisions which have sought to balance the available scientific knowledge with evolving public opinion. Or to be more specific, they are cases where they have sought to balance it with what we might call very understandable public exhaustion.

The fact is that we are living through an historic global pandemic. It’s complicated. We’re collectively having to make big decisions without anywhere near enough knowledge. It will continue to be bumpy. The problem isn’t that the CDC doesn’t have enough wizards to wave wands to make it disappear for you. The problem is the virus. And we are not done with it.

As I suggested above, the real challenges now are balancing the the current scientific knowledge with the political realities of an exhausted population. Our biggest challenge is one of free ridership. The CDC is now asking the vaccinated to resume masking in areas of high transmission, which is now most but not all of the country. What that means is that we are again asking the vaccinated to take on the burdens of the decisions of the voluntarily unvaccinated. And that’s a big problem.

[boyyourself]

Doesn't seem to be a lot of screaming happening here. Just some people offering data and news stories, and others ignoring everything in deference to their contrarian opinions

A agree with most of that. If you and others were actually ignoring contrian opinions that's one thing. Instead you piss on other opinions. Then cherry it by choosing whose righteous , tagging it as mis information, and pointing to ignorance that stems from quanon and fox. And repeat.

That's not ignoring someone's opinion.

And yeah I'm not screaming either. Just responding with text on a forum. None of my original posts were ever directed at anyone. But you kept pointing fingers at me and questioning my character because of my opinions on a forum. I didn't expect that and had to learn how handle it my own way. Which isn't always what I would consider acting like a grown ass man. . Using words against each other. Real mature stuff. I admit to participating in middle school behavior, not ashamed of my 17 yr old mind. Ain't proud of it neither. I'll try to do better because I appreciate being here for working through polarizing topics with folk willing to engage. I can take the fire now. I sure ain't gonna try to modify anyone's behavior like my teenager it ain't possible. But I reserve the right to acknowledge when I see it.

[cortez the killer]

Something not screamy at all:

Out of Patience with the CDC? Grow the F Up

Okay, the title is screamy, but the article is anything but:

This isn’t a brief for anyone at CDC. Like I said, I think they’ve gotten some key decisions wrong, in ways I’ll describe in a moment. Mostly they are not clinical decisions but decisions which have sought to balance the available scientific knowledge with evolving public opinion. Or to be more specific, they are cases where they have sought to balance it with what we might call very understandable public exhaustion.

The fact is that we are living through an historic global pandemic. It’s complicated. We’re collectively having to make big decisions without anywhere near enough knowledge. It will continue to be bumpy. The problem isn’t that the CDC doesn’t have enough wizards to wave wands to make it disappear for you. The problem is the virus. And we are not done with it.

As I suggested above, the real challenges now are balancing the the current scientific knowledge with the political realities of an exhausted population. Our biggest challenge is one of free ridership. The CDC is now asking the vaccinated to resume masking in areas of high transmission, which is now most but not all of the country. What that means is that we are again asking the vaccinated to take on the burdens of the decisions of the voluntarily unvaccinated. And that’s a big problem.

Spot on. Thanks for sharing, JAA.

[pearlbeer]

Well it seems like we are back to screaming at each other. Disappointing but I guess that’s what passes for normal now along with a lot of other things that aren’t good.

i said that i was done voicing my opinions or commenting on others re: COVID and vaccinations etc as it's pretty clear (i think) what my positions are. and i intend to stay true to my position.

however, i will ask this question:

The concept of total government control over medicine is now commonplace instead of something most people argued against.

It is now (mostly) accepted that the government can force businesses to close and people to stay home whenever they choose.

with respect to a highly communicable disease and how to deal with it, wouldn't that fall under public policy and public health? if the gov't doesn't set the agenda in how to deal with it, who should? Should it really be up to individuals?

When the death rate is as low as it is with this I don’t see how it’s justified for the government to be able to shut down businesses and make people stay inside. If the government hadn’t done so much to prove that is not trustworthy well I’d still have a problem with it to be honest but it probably wouldn’t bother me as much. This seems especially true considering such a high percentage of the people killed by this virus were already in bad health. Since this is the internet and I am in a very small minority here as far as my political positions are concerned I will clarify that I’m not saying those who have died are unimportant just because it’s a small number and the death rate of this virus is tiny.

Point of clarification. The death rate isn't the driving factor here, it is the load placed on the regional hospital systems and available ICU beds.

[tinnitus photography]

When the death rate is as low as it is with this I don’t see how it’s justified for the government to be able to shut down businesses and make people stay inside. If the government hadn’t done so much to prove that is not trustworthy well I’d still have a problem with it to be honest but it probably wouldn’t bother me as much. This seems especially true considering such a high percentage of the people killed by this virus were already in bad health. Since this is the internet and I am in a very small minority here as far as my political positions are concerned I will clarify that I’m not saying those who have died are unimportant just because it’s a small number and the death rate of this virus is tiny.

breaking my vow, i am going to be as even-handed and as civil as i can here. and if i'm not, pls let me know.

1 - it's not just the death rate that is the issue, it's hospital capacity. and if hospitals fill to capacity, not only does it put an undue burden on the staff, it also defers other medical treatments. we've seen this happen, it's not a hypothetical.

2 - the death rate of COVID complications has gone down considerably from the initial surge, as we learned how to treat it better:


(note the side disclaimer about the differences between Case Fatality Rate, Crude Fatality Rate and Infection Fatality Rate, here's the link as it is worth reading:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-mortality-risk )

3 - was anyone in the US ever made to stay inside? I don't recall that happening, but my experience is obv limited.

4 - about the 'bad health/old' part of COVID fatalities... yes, they are the majority. that is indisputable. that said, there is a non-zero population of people who have pre-existing conditions or their kids or parents do and can't get the vaccine, which make them more vulnerable and their conditions aren't reversible by a lifestyle change (MS, asthma, emphysema, immunocompromised, etc).

5 - what is an acceptable death rate? if it's 0.001%, those people who did die still meant something to someone. it's been shown that masks and vaccines go a long way to stopping infection spread. for people who feel they are not going to live in fear and aren't in a crowded area, good for them. sounds like self-imposed social distancing is already in place. is wearing a mask to get groceries really something that difficult to do? yeah, i hate masks myself and was happy to get rid of them but i'll be wearing one at Psycho Las Vegas in 3 weeks' time, assuming the event still happens.


yes, it's clear that the messaging and communication has been variable, confusing and at times contradictory. The FDA specifically is waffling over not yet giving formal approval of the vaccines given emergency authorization, yet all the time you hear officials say 'get the vaccine.' this is not helping people who have vaccine hesitancy one bit, and i wish they would get their shit together.

[Cole Younger]

When the death rate is as low as it is with this I don’t see how it’s justified for the government to be able to shut down businesses and make people stay inside. If the government hadn’t done so much to prove that is not trustworthy well I’d still have a problem with it to be honest but it probably wouldn’t bother me as much. This seems especially true considering such a high percentage of the people killed by this virus were already in bad health. Since this is the internet and I am in a very small minority here as far as my political positions are concerned I will clarify that I’m not saying those who have died are unimportant just because it’s a small number and the death rate of this virus is tiny.

breaking my vow, i am going to be as even-handed and as civil as i can here. and if i'm not, pls let me know.

1 - it's not just the death rate that is the issue, it's hospital capacity. and if hospitals fill to capacity, not only does it put an undue burden on the staff, it also defers other medical treatments. we've seen this happen, it's not a hypothetical.

2 - the death rate of COVID complications has gone down considerably from the initial surge, as we learned how to treat it better:


(note the side disclaimer about the differences between Case Fatality Rate, Crude Fatality Rate and Infection Fatality Rate, here's the link as it is worth reading:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-mortality-risk )

3 - was anyone in the US ever made to stay inside? I don't recall that happening, but my experience is obv limited.

4 - about the 'bad health/old' part of COVID fatalities... yes, they are the majority. that is indisputable. that said, there is a non-zero population of people who have pre-existing conditions or their kids or parents do and can't get the vaccine, which make them more vulnerable and their conditions aren't reversible by a lifestyle change (MS, asthma, emphysema, immunocompromised, etc).

5 - what is an acceptable death rate? if it's 0.001%, those people who did die still meant something to someone. it's been shown that masks and vaccines go a long way to stopping infection spread. for people who feel they are not going to live in fear and aren't in a crowded area, good for them. sounds like self-imposed social distancing is already in place. is wearing a mask to get groceries really something that difficult to do? yeah, i hate masks myself and was happy to get rid of them but i'll be wearing one at Psycho Las Vegas in 3 weeks' time, assuming the event still happens.


yes, it's clear that the messaging and communication has been variable, confusing and at times contradictory. The FDA specifically is waffling over not yet giving formal approval of the vaccines given emergency authorization, yet all the time you hear officials say 'get the vaccine.' this is not helping people who have vaccine hesitancy one bit, and i wish they would get their shit together.

Nothing wrong at all with that post, man. Very civil. Point taken on it not being all about the death rate. I guess I’ll do things out of order and go ahead and address your fifth point first (Sorry). Let me reiterate that those people’s deaths are not meaningless or acceptable to me. But I still can’t see making the entire country radically alter their lives over it. That sounds way more callous than I mean it. But I can’t. I lost a cousin and an uncle to this. I loved them both. Both were in bad health and had been for a long time and one was a life long smoker. Their deaths matter to me. But it’s not like all of this exists in a vacuum. I miss them and wish they were still here but I don’t see why that means everyone should totally change the way they live.

Again, fair point on it not being all about the death rate. But I might be a little more receptive if we hadn’t been told the lie, “Two weeks to flatten the curve to make sure hospitals aren’t overwhelmed”. Only to see lockdowns last for months. We can debate whether or not it was an honest mistake based on lack of information but in the end it really doesn’t matter all that much. Once it was clear hospitals were t overwhelmed it should have stopped.

On your second point, no argument.

Has anyone in the US been made to stay inside? I probably should have worded that a little differently but haven’t they? Was t that going on in California? New York too? If not, it did go on in Georgia and Florida among the elderly. I know a few people who were and are perfectly healthy who lived in a retirement home and were told they were not to leave their rooms/apartments or they would be asked to leave for good. It doesn’t matter to me whether or not the intentions behind that were good and they probably were. Holding people prisoner under the threat of being thrown out and made homeless is wrong.

To your fourth point, fair enough. I still don’t think everyone should have to change their lives because of that. We either live in a free country or we don’t. I just can’t be ok with a footnote in the constitution that reads, “This is all null and void if a lot of people start getting sick.”


Your closing statement I totally agree with. It has been a train wreck. And it has just bolstered my belief that the government sucks at most things it tries. Then again, it was FDR who said, “There are no coincidences when it comes to politics. When something happens in the world of politics you can bet that it was planned that way.”

Edit. I had to make one addition. To your point about masks. That has been mangled as far as messaging. Fauci was against it and then he was a stone cold believer and then he said in an email that it really didn’t make any difference. And I don’t see how these little cloth masks are doing any good when most people don’t even wear them the right way.

[boyyourself]

When the death rate is as low as it is with this I don’t see how it’s justified for the government to be able to shut down businesses and make people stay inside. If the government hadn’t done so much to prove that is not trustworthy well I’d still have a problem with it to be honest but it probably wouldn’t bother me as much. This seems especially true considering such a high percentage of the people killed by this virus were already in bad health. Since this is the internet and I am in a very small minority here as far as my political positions are concerned I will clarify that I’m not saying those who have died are unimportant just because it’s a small number and the death rate of this virus is tiny.

breaking my vow, i am going to be as even-handed and as civil as i can here. and if i'm not, pls let me know.

1 - it's not just the death rate that is the issue, it's hospital capacity. and if hospitals fill to capacity, not only does it put an undue burden on the staff, it also defers other medical treatments. we've seen this happen, it's not a hypothetical.

2 - the death rate of COVID complications has gone down considerably from the initial surge, as we learned how to treat it better:


(note the side disclaimer about the differences between Case Fatality Rate, Crude Fatality Rate and Infection Fatality Rate, here's the link as it is worth reading:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-mortality-risk )

3 - was anyone in the US ever made to stay inside? I don't recall that happening, but my experience is obv limited.

4 - about the 'bad health/old' part of COVID fatalities... yes, they are the majority. that is indisputable. that said, there is a non-zero population of people who have pre-existing conditions or their kids or parents do and can't get the vaccine, which make them more vulnerable and their conditions aren't reversible by a lifestyle change (MS, asthma, emphysema, immunocompromised, etc).

5 - what is an acceptable death rate? if it's 0.001%, those people who did die still meant something to someone. it's been shown that masks and vaccines go a long way to stopping infection spread. for people who feel they are not going to live in fear and aren't in a crowded area, good for them. sounds like self-imposed social distancing is already in place. is wearing a mask to get groceries really something that difficult to do? yeah, i hate masks myself and was happy to get rid of them but i'll be wearing one at Psycho Las Vegas in 3 weeks' time, assuming the event still happens.


yes, it's clear that the messaging and communication has been variable, confusing and at times contradictory. The FDA specifically is waffling over not yet giving formal approval of the vaccines given emergency authorization, yet all the time you hear officials say 'get the vaccine.' this is not helping people who have vaccine hesitancy one bit, and i wish they would get their shit together.

Nothing wrong at all with that post, man. Very civil. Point taken on it not being all about the death rate. I guess I’ll do things out of order and go ahead and address your fifth point first (Sorry). Let me reiterate that those people’s deaths are not meaningless or acceptable to me. But I still can’t see making the entire country radically alter their lives over it. That sounds way more callous than I mean it. But I can’t. I lost a cousin and an uncle to this. I loved them both. Both were in bad health and had been for a long time and one was a life long smoker. Their deaths matter to me. But it’s not like all of this exists in a vacuum. I miss them and wish they were still here but I don’t see why that means everyone should totally change the way they live.

Again, fair point on it not being all about the death rate. But I might be a little more receptive if we hadn’t been told the lie, “Two weeks to flatten the curve to make sure hospitals aren’t overwhelmed”. Only to see lockdowns last for months. We can debate whether or not it was an honest mistake based on lack of information but in the end it really doesn’t matter all that much. Once it was clear hospitals were t overwhelmed it should have stopped.

On your second point, no argument.

Has anyone in the US been made to stay inside? I probably should have worded that a little differently but haven’t they? Was t that going on in California? New York too? If not, it did go on in Georgia and Florida among the elderly. I know a few people who were and are perfectly healthy who lived in a retirement home and were told they were not to leave their rooms/apartments or they would be asked to leave for good. It doesn’t matter to me whether or not the intentions behind that were good and they probably were. Holding people prisoner under the threat of being thrown out and made homeless is wrong.

To your fourth point, fair enough. I still don’t think everyone should have to change their lives because of that. We either live in a free country or we don’t. I just can’t be ok with a footnote in the constitution that reads, “This is all null and void if a lot of people start getting sick.”


Your closing statement I totally agree with. It has been a train wreck. And it has just bolstered my belief that the government sucks at most things it tries. Then again, it was FDR who said, “There are no coincidences when it comes to politics. When something happens in the world of politics you can bet that it was planned that way.”

Edit. I had to make one addition. To your point about masks. That has been mangled as far as messaging. Fauci was against it and then he was a stone cold believer and then he said in an email that it really didn’t make any difference. And I don’t see how these little cloth masks are doing any good when most people don’t even wear them the right way.

All that plus the narrative that it's a pandemic of the unvaccinated has proven false. So having said all of that I still do not agree that somehow vaxing, masking, social distancing, etc, has anything to do with protecting those who are terminal and can't get the Vax. They haven't really proven to help with anything. And it also doesn't automatically make you some altruistic righteous person just for doing all that. Hopefully you just are. Same casting the attachment that if you don't do those things then you're the problem or you're not a good dude? Absolutely ridiculous.

[tinnitus photography]

you don't think vaccination has anything to do w/ stopping the spread of the virus? for real?

this is just one article... there are loads of data that clearly demonstrate this. Also, if masks do nothing then should front line medical staff not bother using them?

https://theconversation.com/us-is-split ... ide-164460

It is hard to find data about overall cases among unvaccinated compared with vaccinated individuals. This results partly from the CDC’s transition in May 2021 to focusing on hospitalizations of COVID-19 vaccine recipients rather than cases. But one way to get at this data is to compare two states with large differences in vaccination rates. As the delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 surges across the U.S., one can observe the consequences of this split into a vaccinated and unvaccinated America in real time.

In the state of Missouri, only 40% of people are vaccinated. In some counties within Missouri, as few as 14.7% of the residents are vaccinated. Not surprisingly, the state has seen a surge in COVID-19 cases through the middle of July, with 2,000 to 3,000 new cases per day. The rate of spread is also increasing. Already, some hospitals are running out of ventilators and intensive care beds.

[Understand new developments in science, health and technology, each week. Subscribe to The Conversation’s science newsletter.]

Contrast this with Massachusetts, where 63% of people are fully vaccinated. Though the state is also seeing an increase in cases, total new infections numbered only around 200 to 300 per day. The number of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 in Massachussetts is also down 95% since January 2021.

As of July 20, 2021, Missouri had 1,357 patients hospitalized with COVID-19, almost 13 times more than the 106 patients in Massachusetts. This is despite Missouri’s having a slightly smaller population that is much more dispersed.

Cole, the way I see it is that if you are a smoker, unless you are particularly brutal w/ your second hand smoke, the only one who is being adversely affected is yourself. if getting a vaccine is radically altering one's life, i don't understand that position.

i came up w/ possibly an OK analogy of the vaccine and affecting others. think of the vaccine as wearing a seatbelt. it doesn't mean that you won't die in a crash, but it ups the percentages of survival significantly. but maybe some people get a slight neck rash from wearing one, it's uncomfortable and not their first choice.

now think about a scenario where every person not wearing their seatbelt slightly lessens the efficacy of everyone who does. Should we mandate seat belt laws?

[Cole Younger]

you don't think vaccination has anything to do w/ stopping the spread of the virus? for real?

this is just one article... there are loads of data that clearly demonstrate this. Also, if masks do nothing then should front line medical staff not bother using them?

https://theconversation.com/us-is-split ... ide-164460

It is hard to find data about overall cases among unvaccinated compared with vaccinated individuals. This results partly from the CDC’s transition in May 2021 to focusing on hospitalizations of COVID-19 vaccine recipients rather than cases. But one way to get at this data is to compare two states with large differences in vaccination rates. As the delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 surges across the U.S., one can observe the consequences of this split into a vaccinated and unvaccinated America in real time.

In the state of Missouri, only 40% of people are vaccinated. In some counties within Missouri, as few as 14.7% of the residents are vaccinated. Not surprisingly, the state has seen a surge in COVID-19 cases through the middle of July, with 2,000 to 3,000 new cases per day. The rate of spread is also increasing. Already, some hospitals are running out of ventilators and intensive care beds.

[Understand new developments in science, health and technology, each week. Subscribe to The Conversation’s science newsletter.]

Contrast this with Massachusetts, where 63% of people are fully vaccinated. Though the state is also seeing an increase in cases, total new infections numbered only around 200 to 300 per day. The number of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 in Massachussetts is also down 95% since January 2021.

As of July 20, 2021, Missouri had 1,357 patients hospitalized with COVID-19, almost 13 times more than the 106 patients in Massachusetts. This is despite Missouri’s having a slightly smaller population that is much more dispersed.

Cole, the way I see it is that if you are a smoker, unless you are particularly brutal w/ your second hand smoke, the only one who is being adversely affected is yourself. if getting a vaccine is radically altering one's life, i don't understand that position.

i came up w/ possibly an OK analogy of the vaccine and affecting others. think of the vaccine as wearing a seatbelt. it doesn't mean that you won't die in a crash, but it ups the percentages of survival significantly. but maybe some people get a slight neck rash from wearing one, it's uncomfortable and not their first choice.

now think about a scenario where every person not wearing their seatbelt slightly lessens the efficacy of everyone who does. Should we mandate seat belt laws?

I’m not talking about the vaccine when I speak of people having to radically alter their lives. I’m talking about lockdowns, forced business closures, kids not being able to go to school (I imagine that’s going to crop up and significant and unimagined ways down the road if it continues) people not being able to see their loved ones in the hospital even if they’re dying, not being able to have funeral for a loved one, and not being able to do things that are just fun like attend concerts.

As far as your seatbelt analogy it is interesting. If we are talking about me being forced to wear one to save you I can be more receptive to that than me being forced to wear one because it’s for my own good. I can’t stand the idea of politicians protecting me from my own self.

[Zip City]

Re: "2 weeks to flatten the curve"

Was this unrealistic? Perhaps. But there was also a lot of non-compliance with those orders, so of course it wasn't going to work

Re: "This being a pandemic of the vaccinated has been proven false"

Please cite your sources.

Re: "Masking, vaccines and social distancing has made no difference"

Again, cite your sources. Notice where the virus is running rampant right now: states that have listed all mask and distancing regulations

[Cole Younger]

I just thought I would mention, Bill DeBlasio has now explained that more stringent Covid regulations are coming and the “voluntary phase is over.” I don’t think this going to be good.

[Cole Younger]

Re: "2 weeks to flatten the curve"

Was this unrealistic? Perhaps. But there was also a lot of non-compliance with those orders, so of course it wasn't going to work

Re: "This being a pandemic of the vaccinated has been proven false"

Please cite your sources.

Re: "Masking, vaccines and social distancing has made no difference"

Again, cite your sources. Notice where the virus is running rampant right now: states that have listed all mask and distancing regulations

But there are no “orders”, Zip. It’s not a politician’s place to give people orders as far as whether or not they can go to work, have people over to their house in larger numbers than they like etc. It’s like when the president said, “The rule is, unless you’ve had the vaccine you have to wear a mask.” There is no “rule” and he is not enumerated that power to just decree anything.

[Zip City]

So this is a simple matter of our American value of “fuck you, I’ll do what I want?”

[Cole Younger]

So this is a simple matter of our American value of “fuck you, I’ll do what I want?”

That’s not what I said or anything close to it. But I can respect that more than “You will live the way I think you should.”

[LBRod]

So this is a simple matter of our American value of “fuck you, I’ll do what I want?”

More like "don't tell me how to live my life, and I'll return the favor."

[LBRod]

Should we mandate seat belt laws?

I was against it at the time. Same for helmet laws for motorcycles.
Also, there would be a lot fewer overdoses if herion was legal.

note: I always wear a seatbelt, and did so before it was the law, and have never felt the need to try herion.

[tinnitus photography]

i like seat belt laws as it helps protect everyone and gets kids used to wearing one.

helmet laws to me are something that, while i would never not wear one, i can see it as govt intrusion to tell you to do so. wearing one doesn't make operating a motorcycle safer.


i can't believe that i used to ski w/o one, and after having a weird incident where i came out of a ski that threw me forward and slammed my head into a (thankfully pretty small) tree that i never saw coming, i certainly wouldn't have skied the rest of the day had i not been wearing one.

[boyyourself]

I just thought I would mention, Bill DeBlasio has now explained that more stringent Covid regulations are coming and the “voluntary phase is over.” I don’t think this going to be good.

Unless you're pelaton, pizza delivery, booze, beer, Xanax, zoloft, McDonald's, Amazon, to go.container companies, people who like staying home etc.
Great stuff too like integrity farming is on the rise and here to stay. Also everything outdoor industry wise has blown up and folks are actually getting outside so that's cool. I've started questioning my decision not to be growing my own food right now and looking into getting some animals sooner rather than later.

[Cole Younger]

I just thought I would mention, Bill DeBlasio has now explained that more stringent Covid regulations are coming and the “voluntary phase is over.” I don’t think this going to be good.

Unless you're pelaton, pizza delivery, booze, beer, Xanax, zoloft, McDonald's, Amazon, to go.container companies, people who like staying home etc.
Great stuff too like integrity farming is on the rise and here to stay. Also everything outdoor industry wise has blown up and folks are actually getting outside so that's cool. I've started questioning my decision not to be growing my own food right now and looking into getting some animals sooner rather than later.

More people being outside is a double edged sword. Yes it is good in a lot of ways. But one of my favorite trout fishing spots was crowded last weekend and that sucked.

People would be amazed how much they could provide for themselves with a small to average sized garden and a few chickens. That alone would keep them from spending nearly as much on groceries. And there ain’t nothing like fresh eggs. A tomato sandwich made from a tomato you just picked is mighty fine too. I can’t help but think if more people got to experience things like that spent less time staring at their phone and reading the latest outrage of the hour far fewer people would be pissed off like they are. I used to think it was politics that did it but this Covid thing has learned me something. Politics was just a symptom.

[boyyourself]

i like seat belt laws as it helps protect everyone and gets kids used to wearing one.

helmet laws to me are something that, while i would never not wear one, i can see it as govt intrusion to tell you to do so. wearing one doesn't make operating a motorcycle safer.


i can't believe that i used to ski w/o one, and after having a weird incident where i came out of a ski that threw me forward and slammed my head into a (thankfully pretty small) tree that i never saw coming, i certainly wouldn't have skied the rest of the day had i not been wearing one.

I've been skiing 45 years without a helmet. Which is coincidence i know. I just don't like them. I feel less aware skiing trees with a helmet on, almost like I'm less sharp because of it. I see a lot of dopes skiing with helmets and music and not having there head on a swivel, and it can be frightening. Not that I mind dopey skiers i am one. Buy it's similar to driving. Some people just aren't paying attention or texting or drunk. Helmet and seatbelt don't fix stupid.
Shit happens. I get that. That's also partly why i don't even attempt to disaster proof much of any part of my life.

[boyyourself]

I just thought I would mention, Bill DeBlasio has now explained that more stringent Covid regulations are coming and the “voluntary phase is over.” I don’t think this going to be good.

Unless you're pelaton, pizza delivery, booze, beer, Xanax, zoloft, McDonald's, Amazon, to go.container companies, people who like staying home etc.
Great stuff too like integrity farming is on the rise and here to stay. Also everything outdoor industry wise has blown up and folks are actually getting outside so that's cool. I've started questioning my decision not to be growing my own food right now and looking into getting some animals sooner rather than later.

More people being outside is a double edged sword. Yes it is good in a lot of ways. But one of my favorite trout fishing spots was crowded last weekend and that sucked.

People would be amazed how much they could provide for themselves with a small to average sized garden and a few chickens. That alone would keep them from spending nearly as much on groceries. And there ain’t nothing like fresh eggs. A tomato sandwich made from a tomato you just picked is mighty fine too. I can’t help but think if more people got to experience things like that spent less time staring at their phone and reading the latest outrage of the hour far fewer people would be pissed off like they are. I used to think it was politics that did it but this Covid thing has learned me something. Politics was just a symptom.

Oh I hear that. Gotta work pretty hard for a secret spot these days. Plenty left out here in the west though.

And no doubt on growing food. It's easy too. Get some chicken and get a garden. It'd pretty simply and ultimately rewarding. And avoiding trips to the store is always good.

I think it's messed up.that kids are taught to use computers but don't know how to grow food. Both things can happen at once.

[Cole Younger]

Unless you're pelaton, pizza delivery, booze, beer, Xanax, zoloft, McDonald's, Amazon, to go.container companies, people who like staying home etc.
Great stuff too like integrity farming is on the rise and here to stay. Also everything outdoor industry wise has blown up and folks are actually getting outside so that's cool. I've started questioning my decision not to be growing my own food right now and looking into getting some animals sooner rather than later.

More people being outside is a double edged sword. Yes it is good in a lot of ways. But one of my favorite trout fishing spots was crowded last weekend and that sucked.

People would be amazed how much they could provide for themselves with a small to average sized garden and a few chickens. That alone would keep them from spending nearly as much on groceries. And there ain’t nothing like fresh eggs. A tomato sandwich made from a tomato you just picked is mighty fine too. I can’t help but think if more people got to experience things like that spent less time staring at their phone and reading the latest outrage of the hour far fewer people would be pissed off like they are. I used to think it was politics that did it but this Covid thing has learned me something. Politics was just a symptom.

Oh I hear that. Gotta work pretty hard for a secret spot these days. Plenty left out here in the west though.

And no doubt on growing food. It's easy too. Get some chicken and get a garden. It'd pretty simply and ultimately rewarding. And avoiding trips to the store is always good.

I think it's messed up.that kids are taught to use computers but don't know how to grow food. Both things can happen at once.

Yeah I agree. I realize technology isn’t going anywhere but it’s good to know how to do without it, you know? So many people wouldn’t have any idea what to do even in the event of a prolonged power outage. That’s sad. If things were to go really sideways in this country, God forbid, and grocery stores were empty for a month or more people would be totally screwed. And for a lot of them it doesn’t have to be like that. I know hunting and fishing aren’t for everybody but I highly recommend Clay Newcomb’s podcast Bear Grease for anyone interested in learning what hunting really is. He was also a guest on Rogan recently and you could catch that episode and get a good idea too.

[jr29]

I believe 96% of doctors are vaccinated. I think doctors are full of shit fairly often, but if 96% of them recommended a certain treatment for something I was dealing with it would be a no brainer.

[John A Arkansawyer]

i like seat belt laws as it helps protect everyone and gets kids used to wearing one.

helmet laws to me are something that, while i would never not wear one, i can see it as govt intrusion to tell you to do so. wearing one doesn't make operating a motorcycle safer.

My friend the EMT considers seat belt and cycle helmet use protection from him having to scrape up remains so often.