Man I sincerely appreciate your taking the time to explain that. Your own personal connection and background was particularly helpful and interesting. I understand some of that.phungi wrote: ↑Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:32 amCole, unlurking again, to provide a slightly different, albeit personal perspective.
Growing up in NE Philly, there were basically two religions in my world, those who were jewish and those who were not... I didn't really understand the difference between Catholics and Protestants (not sure I do now, other than Jameson vs Bushmills, but I digress). My neighborhood was "mixed" as was my group of friends as was my school. My dad worked as a civilian software engineer for the gov't at the Philly Navy Yard, and voted Republican his entire life. I was never on an airplane, until I was 21 (paid for it myself) but got new sneakers and clothes annually (i.e., new school year) or when I needed them (sadly, sometimes simply trading in for new Tough-Skin jeans, but I digress). While I was raised in a "semi-religious" household, I denounced my religion shortly after my bar mitzvah, and have remained a steadfast apathetic evangelical atheist (i.e., too lazy to spread the word of no god, but I digress) since age 13. However, when I got to high school, there were plenty of kids from "the other side of the boulevard" who looked at me as the devil, as a rich jew, and not only wanted to kick my ass, but did so a few times in "several-on-one" ugly scenes.
So, I graduate (get) high school, go to Penn State in lovely Centre County PA, and meet lots of people, including some from the more rural areas of PA who not only had never met anyone jewish, but actually thought I had horns. I grew accustomed to choosing which hill to die on when someone said "fucking jew" in the tv-lounge (ah, the days of early cable tv, but I digress)... there were "friendly fraternities" and for the most part, this was a non-issue, and I by no means grew up as an oppressed minority in this country. As I mentioned, I didn't know hunger, I went to college, and then to grad school (on my dime) and had/have a pretty good life. While I remain uninterested in any form of organized religion (other than live music shows, but I digress), I suppose I identify with some aspects of the culture: family meals during holidays, attending secular ceremonies (e.g., weddings and funerals and bar mitzvahs, but I digress). Along the way, I read the bible, torah, and koran, and educated myself. I was able to visit Europe and even some concentration camps, and holocaust museums (abroad and in Washington DC), which sets up the reason I am posting.
I was no fan of Trump, but hoped for the best. However, when the shit went down in Charleston VA, and neo-Nazis were marching the streets with torches, saying "jews will not replace us",I went right back to my youth and experienced a level of hurt and oppression that few can understand without a lack of personal experience. Jewish people only represent about 2% of the population in the US, so when Trump did not repudiate this group, and instead validated their existence, it hurt perhaps only a minority. Imagine, if you will, a crowd chanting "anti-Marines rhetoric" (or Army, I don't recall your branch of service, but I digress), and know that there are thousands who would want you dead on the spot, simply for belonging to a group which they neither understood nor ever interacted with... I imagine it would personally hurt you, as well as the 2-3% of US citizens who, like you, selflessly served. Imagine a crowd chanting "blacks should still be slaves" and how that would hurt anyone who grew up oppressed as a black person in the US. (Note, I am not insinuating you are racist, incapable of empathy, or validate any of Trump's views, just waxing/digressing to get to my point). So, in response to "You got what you wanted. Why is that not enough? What would be enough?" nothing short of the harshest repudiation of Trump, his rhetoric, his racism, his xenophobia, and all the lies he used to create "anti-everything that doesn't support me, my people, or my bank account" propaganda would be a good start. I want anything that will not allow this guy to slink into the dark recesses of our country only to re-build and re-emerge with a stronger more disgusting platform of hate and vilification and lies. Metaphorically, I want him cut off at the knees, with compound fractures of both tibia, along with bilateral severed achilles tendons, perhaps even as an amputee in a wheelchair. I want his brand name disgraced, his properties ceremonially razed/demolished, and his family bankrupt, living in the same tenement houses they denied poor minorities to inhabit, working at minimum-wage jobs they refuse to respect with even a shred of decency by raising the wage. I want them to have to live on the social security and government-based health care they want to deny others, and I want every person who supported him (not Republicans, but what we refer to as "flag-waving evangelical Trumpsters") to see the just outcome of hate, evil, selfishness and lies and hopefully learn something from this.
Sorry if this seems personally against you, it is not, but it is an answer to "what more do Democrats want". At least, this is what this evangelical atheist jew heathen wants, as well as to hang with you and all the good people at the next rock show and share a beer.
I would less than honest if I didn’t admit that I don’t understand some of the emboldened part. That’s alright. I don’t have to understand it. But I do think we are headed for trouble if we want supporters of one president, politician or other to pay some sort of price for it. We now have AOC saying she wants lists of names of people who voted for Trump. I dont know what she thinks she’s going to do once she has such a list but that is a fire we do not need to play with because it will not be pretty. This is what I have been concerned about with the normalization of rioting and falsely describing the riots as “peaceful protests”. The “elections have consequences” mentality came back to bite the democrats when they were no longer in power. And “I want names” will too and possibly sooner than a republican being in the White House. This is what happens when people who don’t know anything about fighting and warfare decide “This is war!!!!!” It escalates. The other side isnt going to just lay down and take it. They are going to fight back. I dont mean you are calling for anything like that. Just one small part of your post got me thinking in that direction as I have already been thinking about the danger of this sort of thing.
I appreciate you, brother. I mean that. And if what I said made it seem in any way like maybe I sympathize with the type of person who says or thinks things like “Damn Jews” or “black people should still be slaves” or anything like that, let me put that to bed right now. No way, no how. I will never be in agreement with most here about most things political. And I can be a smart ass and don’t always word things the best way that I could. And I am definitely not in agreement on some of this stuff. But I’m not a person who hates people not like me. Thanks again, man and hopefully we cross paths again before long. All I can say for myself for when it seems like I’m being a jackass, remember, I’m pretty much all alone here. Well now that boyyourself is here, not anymore, but still. It’s not lost on me that an awful lot of people would love for me to just go away and not come back. For some it’s even personal. That’s fine, I don’t care. I only bring it up to help explain some of my less than pleasant moments here. I’ve got no problem standing right on my own. But that means I won’t always seem like a nice guy as a result.