The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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chuckrh
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:09 am
pearlbeer wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:06 pm
Fuck Trump
It never stops, does it?

I am just so, so tired. And angry. Really angry all the time. And so tired of being really angry all the time.

The conventional wisdom seems to be that the wildfires in the West are not getting the full attention they deserve because they're not in swing states and thus not part of everyone's alleged laser like focus on the election. This makes no sense to me, just wondering if anybody else has any thoughts, pro or con.

Fuck Trump.
I'm really afraid that Burnt Cheato is going to win. First, if somehow college football & the NFL manage to pull off a (COVID) full season he is going to take credit for that personally. The flyover & SE states are going to believe him. As the true father of the country (PT Barnum) once said, "There's a sucker born every minute". Second, I worry about Biden debating him. If he has 1 or 2 bad performances in the debates, all bets are off. I don't think Harris vs Pence is a problem but that's a sideshow. Nobody ever went broke overestimating the stupidity of the general population. Chaos could easily ensue. Which makes me think that Putin (or possibly the Chinese or both) are more heavily involved than our worst nightmares. For instance the situation with city government in Seattle. I'm fairly liberal, I like to think a common sense liberal. What is going on here is way beyond the pale. I won't go into the whole sordid story but I'm convinced that if someone dug hard enough they would find Putin under a rock. It is totally out of control. These people make Bernie Sanders (whom I was pulling for) look like Richard Nixon. & there has been a fairly constant barrage going out nationally, far from all of it accurate, scaring the shit out of the big middle stupid. It's a nightmare. If Cheato does get in again, the rape & pillage of the country is going to be so extensive that we may never get it back.

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

I know this is as welcome as a hair in a biscuit but it’s true so I’m going to say it.

I don’t know how the democrats screwed this up so royally. Blame Orange Man all you want but all the democrats had to do was just not be insane. That was it. And they couldn’t help themselves. Trump was crashing and burning and the democrats wouldn’t observe that golden rule of American politics, when your opponent is committing suicide just get out of the way. But no, the democrats wanted pay back so they fell into the same old trap. Screaming at the top of their lungs that anyone to the right of the far left is stupid and above all racist. Don’t like seeing cities burned? You’re a white supremacist. Sick of these antifa dick heads? You’re a nazi. Tired of riots? Do you call them riots and not “peaceful protests”? You’re “literally Hitler”? For all Trump’s flaws and there are many and they are glaring, the democrats were consumed by their rage on one hand and too chicken shit to tell the craziest among their base to shut up on the other hand. Like it or not, people get sick of being told they’re stupid and racist for stupid reasons. And they get sick of being told they’re horrible people for not wanting police defunded as they watch their city burn. Not many people are going to be good with that. And as odious as you may find Orange Man, the left wing of the Democratic Party is making him look like the least worst of the two options right now. Combine all that with the fact that somehow the democrats found an even worse candidate than Hillary and that’s how you get Orange Man possibly getting re-elected when it looked like he was done a few months ago.

I don’t know what happens to the Democratic Party now. They can’t seem to understand socialism and riots aren’t attractive to a huge portion of this country. And instead of just accepting that they just get pissed and tell those people they’re stupid and racist. And openly saying things like wanting a revolution and that this is war etc just makes more and more people think, “There is no way I’m voting with those people.” Get mad all you want but it’s true. And why wouldn’t people feel that way? If I tell you you’re a piece of shit over and over and threaten to kick your ass if you dont do what I want you to do are you going to just take that? Of course not. Why would you? And I should probably leave this alone but the comments made here a year or two ago about how it’s always the right that’s violent haven’t exactly aged well. Screaming “Fuck Trump!” and telling people who vote differently how much you hate them isn’t going to get you anywhere you want to go. And it’s now the democrats who do the moralizing and telling everybody what they must do in order to be a good person. And the goalposts for that get moved seemingly everyday. Nobody is progressive enough. And one slip of the tongue gets you “cancelled”. Even if you said it years ago. Because the left is perfect apparently. Being puritanical and fundamentalist in your views used to be a conservative problem. Now it’s the left wanting acts of contrition and demanding that people kneel and apologize for things like being white. The democrats used to be the ones who said it isnt right to judge people for things they had no control over like their race. And being soft on these groups that openly speak of their hatred for this country is a losing strategy. Whatever BLM was originally it has been high jacked by people with a totally different agenda.

I know nobody is going to listen and I’ll just get a bunch of guff for it but I don’t care. there it is.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

Zip City
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

The opinions you are attributing to Democrats are not generally held by the politicians who are running or holding office. Biden is running away from the left, hoping to win by attracting centrists and moderate Republicans. He’s also against defunding police, against free college tuition, etc.
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

Zip City wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:36 pm
The opinions you are attributing to Democrats are not generally held by the politicians who are running or holding office. Biden is running away from the left, hoping to win by attracting centrists and moderate Republicans. He’s also against defunding police, against free college tuition, etc.
I know it but nobody has any confidence in him to be able to dress himself much less anything else so it’s moot.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

chuckrh
Posts: 1581
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

Fuck Trump! The democrats are going to have to grow some stones & play dirty or else we're going to end up with the honorable Ted Cruz. That guy is a total idiot. We'll be living the Handmaid's Tale & the repercussions will be felt long after I"m dead. 1 thing I can agree with Cole Younger on is the extremists on the left are out of control, too. That's about it though. Nazi liberals (we have plenty of those in Seattle) are the worst.

Zip City
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

Cole Younger wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:41 pm
Zip City wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:36 pm
The opinions you are attributing to Democrats are not generally held by the politicians who are running or holding office. Biden is running away from the left, hoping to win by attracting centrists and moderate Republicans. He’s also against defunding police, against free college tuition, etc.
I know it but nobody has any confidence in him to be able to dress himself much less anything else so it’s moot.
Nobody?
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Cole Younger wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:16 pm
I know this is as welcome as a hair in a biscuit but it’s true so I’m going to say it.

I don’t know how the democrats screwed this up so royally. Blame Orange Man all you want but all the democrats had to do was just not be insane. That was it. And they couldn’t help themselves. Trump was crashing and burning and the democrats wouldn’t observe that golden rule of American politics, when your opponent is committing suicide just get out of the way. But no, the democrats wanted pay back so they fell into the same old trap. Screaming at the top of their lungs that anyone to the right of the far left is stupid and above all racist. Don’t like seeing cities burned? You’re a white supremacist. Sick of these antifa dick heads? You’re a nazi. Tired of riots? Do you call them riots and not “peaceful protests”? You’re “literally Hitler”? For all Trump’s flaws and there are many and they are glaring, the democrats were consumed by their rage on one hand and too chicken shit to tell the craziest among their base to shut up on the other hand. Like it or not, people get sick of being told they’re stupid and racist for stupid reasons. And they get sick of being told they’re horrible people for not wanting police defunded as they watch their city burn. Not many people are going to be good with that. And as odious as you may find Orange Man, the left wing of the Democratic Party is making him look like the least worst of the two options right now. Combine all that with the fact that somehow the democrats found an even worse candidate than Hillary and that’s how you get Orange Man possibly getting re-elected when it looked like he was done a few months ago.

I don’t know what happens to the Democratic Party now. They can’t seem to understand socialism and riots aren’t attractive to a huge portion of this country. And instead of just accepting that they just get pissed and tell those people they’re stupid and racist. And openly saying things like wanting a revolution and that this is war etc just makes more and more people think, “There is no way I’m voting with those people.” Get mad all you want but it’s true. And why wouldn’t people feel that way? If I tell you you’re a piece of shit over and over and threaten to kick your ass if you dont do what I want you to do are you going to just take that? Of course not. Why would you? And I should probably leave this alone but the comments made here a year or two ago about how it’s always the right that’s violent haven’t exactly aged well. Screaming “Fuck Trump!” and telling people who vote differently how much you hate them isn’t going to get you anywhere you want to go. And it’s now the democrats who do the moralizing and telling everybody what they must do in order to be a good person. And the goalposts for that get moved seemingly everyday. Nobody is progressive enough. And one slip of the tongue gets you “cancelled”. Even if you said it years ago. Because the left is perfect apparently. Being puritanical and fundamentalist in your views used to be a conservative problem. Now it’s the left wanting acts of contrition and demanding that people kneel and apologize for things like being white. The democrats used to be the ones who said it isnt right to judge people for things they had no control over like their race. And being soft on these groups that openly speak of their hatred for this country is a losing strategy. Whatever BLM was originally it has been high jacked by people with a totally different agenda.

I know nobody is going to listen and I’ll just get a bunch of guff for it but I don’t care. there it is.
Thanks for the post CY. Always good to hear from you and always good to hear your POV.

In my humble opinion, you're half right, maybe just over, depending on how one wants to count. Do Democrats historically make life hard for themselves and continue to do so? You betcha. Is calling everyone who disagrees a racist and/or stupid a failed and failing strategy? Sure. Are a large swath of Americans unwilling to adopt "socialism" and is it a mistake to force that swath to swallow it? Yes. Good as far as it goes but it doesn't go very far, again, imho.

I'm not willing to get into a point by point with you and I doubt you want to go there, either. So I'll just say two things, both of which I've said many times before: On both (all?) sides, anyone remotely connected w/ a particular POV or party or ism gets tagged w/ the worst behavior of anyone else remotely associated w/ the same POV, party or ism. It's ridiculous and it makes conversation and debate impossible. Not all Republicans are racist and not all Democrats call Republicans racist on a knee jerk basis but I'm sure we agree on how all that gets portrayed on a regular basis. Without devolving into tin hat conspiracy theories, it clearly serves some people's interest for this dynamic to continue to play out in more and more severe ways.

Second, it continues to surprise me that people who are not sympathetic to the Democratic POV do not seem to understand that the Republican Party has ruled this country either actively (when in charge) or passively (the McConnell-Obama/Gingrich years) as a minority party for a long time. That's a fact and the result of the mathematics of the Electoral College and the 2 senators for every state rule. After a while people in a supposed democracy get sick of being dictated to in that way, especially when what they actually think and want is totally distorted as part of the minority's game plan. Of a thousand billion examples, let's take two: One is very au courant: After what happened to Merrick Garland, if the Republicans insist on appointing a Supreme Court judge between now and January (unless they win the White House and Senate in November), all hell is going to break out. McConnell's smirking bullshit is enough to drive anyone crazy even before the hypocrisy and lying and then when you add in the consequences, well, people will be justifiably pissed off in a very visceral, emotional way. Second, and this one's been around forever, is the constant drumbeat about "Democrat" cities and states being "takers" and red states being dragged down having to pay for Democratic excess. Unfortunately, the facts are quite different. All (yes I said all) of the states at the top of the "pay more in taxes than they get back" column are considered blue states. All (yes I said all) of the states that get more in federal spending than they pay in taxes are red states. Mississippi is, of course #1 (or is that #50?) on the latter list. So what we've got is that people who represent a minority and who are living on the largesse of the majority constantly stick it to the majority, lie about it, refuse to acknowledge it and try to make the minority look like crazed oppressors. Nobody should be surprised if the majority, once roused, takes exception to this state of affairs.

We (that's the general we) can argue about all the real and imagined slights on both sides over the years, the real and exaggerated behaviors and statements that are anywhere from irresponsible to gross to pathetic to dangerous. On the whole all of that fits under the term "culture wars." But the previous 2 paragraphs describe structural problems that underlie everything else and which aren't going away. It doesn't matter who's smart, who's stupid, who's arrogant, who's racist or who is a perfect paragon of human empathy and understanding. It's all gonna break down if the problems above aren't addressed. That's neither threat nor promise. To me, that's just inevitability.
RIP sweet jimmy c.

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

Zip City wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:50 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:41 pm
Zip City wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:36 pm
The opinions you are attributing to Democrats are not generally held by the politicians who are running or holding office. Biden is running away from the left, hoping to win by attracting centrists and moderate Republicans. He’s also against defunding police, against free college tuition, etc.
I know it but nobody has any confidence in him to be able to dress himself much less anything else so it’s moot.

Nobody?
Few. And I can’t imagine many buying the “good ol blue collar Joe from Scranton” image even when Biden still knew where he was all the time. He’s been in Washington his entire adult life and besides that I can’t imagine he fires many people up.

I do expect him to suddenly have been exposed to Covid for it to become necessary for him to not be able to be at any debates in person. I imagine he will be posted up in his command center, the place he takes commands from people, and where he can read a teleprompter. I really don’t know how the democrats ended up with a worse candidate than Hillary. That did t seem possible.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

Thanks, bubba and it’s nice talking to you. I have had to take a loooooong break from anything political. I’m just sick of seeing it tear everything apart.

I do want to get your take on this newest twist in the plot with the new vacancy on the SC. Harry Reid’s decision to change the rules as far as eliminating the filibuster and changing things in terms of a simple majority looms large. I remember the Democrats were warned about it at the time that they wouldn’t always have the numbers but the decision was made to move ahead. I remember you arguing here at one point that the SC was on its way to irrelevance. I can see that possibility.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

jr29
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by jr29 »

It seems to me like Biden has been fairly sharp over the last several months.
There have been a handful of verbal flubs but he is certainly not the bumbling, senile incompetent that the right is making him out to be.

If he takes a turn I'll be the first to say so.

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

jr29 wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:05 pm
It seems to me like Biden has been fairly sharp over the last several months.
There have been a handful of verbal flubs but he is certainly not the bumbling, senile incompetent that the right is making him out to be.

If he takes a turn I'll be the first to say so.
I guess I’m comparing him to himself a couple years ago. He doesn’t sound like the same person.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

jr29
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by jr29 »

Cole Younger wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:08 pm
jr29 wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:05 pm
It seems to me like Biden has been fairly sharp over the last several months.
There have been a handful of verbal flubs but he is certainly not the bumbling, senile incompetent that the right is making him out to be.

If he takes a turn I'll be the first to say so.
I guess I’m comparing him to himself a couple years ago. He doesn’t sound like the same person.
He has lost a step....I totally concede that. I do not think he is totally lost and propped up and fed every single thing he says.
He diffused the Tara Reade thing by saying "if you believe her don't vote for me. If I believed her I wouldn't vote for me." Boom.....it went away.
That is the way he has handled a lot of criticism that has come his way. He's been concise and direct and that may have something to do with Trump's struggle to label him.

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

jr29 wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:13 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:08 pm
jr29 wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:05 pm
It seems to me like Biden has been fairly sharp over the last several months.
There have been a handful of verbal flubs but he is certainly not the bumbling, senile incompetent that the right is making him out to be.

If he takes a turn I'll be the first to say so.
I guess I’m comparing him to himself a couple years ago. He doesn’t sound like the same person.
He has lost a step....I totally concede that. I do not think he is totally lost and propped up and fed every single thing he says.
He diffused the Tara Reade thing by saying "if you believe her don't vote for me. If I believed her I wouldn't vote for me." Boom.....it went away.
That is the way he has handled a lot of criticism that has come his way. He's been concise and direct and that may have something to do with Trump's struggle to label him.
I don’t think Trump is struggling to label him at all. Biden has said enough wacky things that it’s not hard to make him look addled. I agree it’s probably overblown but I dont believe he can stand on a stage with Trump goading him and not come apart. He seems to say the dumbest things when someone challenges him or makes him mad. And while Trump is no master of debate he’s good at trolling. Of course the spin will be that Orange Man is picking on a poor confused old man. It then Orange Man just turns around and sasys, “And you think other countries are going to take it easy on him?”
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

jr29
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by jr29 »

I could definitely see him losing his cool during the debates. No argument there.

Trump has not found the "lock her up", Crooked Hillary type thing to use against Biden.
If Sleepy Joe is as good as it gets then Trump needs to work on his material.

I also heard on satellite radio yesterday that head to head polls between Trump and Biden are almost identical to what they were a year ago. I'm not sure the debates are gonna change anyone's mind.

beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Cole Younger wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:33 pm
Thanks, bubba and it’s nice talking to you. I have had to take a loooooong break from anything political. I’m just sick of seeing it tear everything apart.

I do want to get your take on this newest twist in the plot with the new vacancy on the SC. Harry Reid’s decision to change the rules as far as eliminating the filibuster and changing things in terms of a simple majority looms large. I remember the Democrats were warned about it at the time that they wouldn’t always have the numbers but the decision was made to move ahead. I remember you arguing here at one point that the SC was on its way to irrelevance. I can see that possibility.
Here's the thing about the post-RBG part of the world: The poor woman's body is not even in the ground and if there haven't literally been a million words written/spoken speculating about what's next, then it's not much short of that number. And the thing about that is, nobody knows nuthin'. The relevant decisions are going to be made by a very small group of people who in turn will be advised by a small group charged w/ analyzing/gaming the situation and assembling the data (mostly polling) to back their recommendation. That's it. Everyone else is just yakking in the dark and making a lot of noise. To me, the situation seems ripe for gaming and can go a number of ways, depending on what that small group thinks about some key issues. At a bare minimum, I can see the range going from them purposely pushing a pre-election vote to give Republican Senators in trouble a chance to "act independently" by voting no to deciding that the key is to tie down the evangelicals which might mean pushing through an appealing (to them) nominee or waiting so they need to re-elect Trump to get the slot filled in a desirable way. Lots of room for machinations and calculations. As I've said, I believe that pushing through a nomination and approval before the election would be a very bad thing for the Republicans to do though I can't say whether the reaction will be felt more at the ballot box or in other ways. It certainly will not do anything to diminish the polarization/politicization of the country.

My views on the role of the filibuster in the legislative process are still evolving. Mostly I think it's a bad way to accomplish a necessary purpose but there must be a better way to accomplish that purpose. Unfortunately I don't have any good ideas at the moment and completely abandoning the procedure seems like an even worse idea. The one thing about the modern application of the filibuster that I truly hate is that most often the minority is not forced to filibuster, just required to threaten to do so. Filibusters are not fun and if the objecting minority had to follow through every time they made the threat, there would be many fewer filibusters. Whether that's a good or bad thing is obviously subject to differences of outlook about government generally and the specifics in each case. I really wish I could remember what I thought at the time about Reid eliminating the filibuster for SCOTUS nominees, but I can't. I imagine that in retrospect he might do things differently if he had the chance, but I can't say that with certainty. As I recall the moment was pretty fraught and his options were limited. But one thing I don't accept is the straight line that you (I think) and others (for sure) attempt to draw from Reid changing the filibuster rule to what was done to Merrick Garland. That does not compute, unless you just want to say in some general way that it's karma which is ok in a casual conversation kind of way but not a winning argument. That's an apples and oranges comparison about which I feel no urgency to comment in detail.

I do think that the SCOTUS is barreling towards irrelevance and will soon reach critical, irreversible speed in that direction. I will admit that I can't precisely lay out the actual way in which we'll get there but I have no doubt it's coming if things continue as they have been going. Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, conservative, liberal, alt right, far left, whatever, every day more people are convinced that the Court is just another political institution and when that view takes serious hold of the conventional wisdom, the Court is through, one way or another. All the Court really has is its reputation, credibility and the myths of objectivity and being the elite of the elite based solely on merit. All 4 of those are under tremendous assault and current events will only accelerate that process. In fairness, I should say that the large majority of my lawyer friends disagree with me, mostly on the practical ground of wondering how any disgruntled litigant/institution/interested party would actually go about ignoring a ruling by the SCOTUS. My answer for now is that I'm not sure but I'm pretty sure that it can and will happen.
RIP sweet jimmy c.

John A Arkansawyer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:39 pm
All the Court really has is its reputation, credibility and the myths of objectivity and being the elite of the elite based solely on merit. All 4 of those are under tremendous assault and current events will only accelerate that process. In fairness, I should say that the large majority of my lawyer friends disagree with me, mostly on the practical ground of wondering how any disgruntled litigant/institution/interested party would actually go about ignoring a ruling by the SCOTUS. My answer for now is that I'm not sure but I'm pretty sure that it can and will happen.
It's easy to see how the court gets ignored. A president will go full Andrew Jackson and that'll be it for a few decades.

I blame Roe v. Wade. Legalized abortion was a popular cause capable of being won through the political process. Then activists mistook the historical accident of a pro-rights courts for a permanent fixture and settled for a legal remedy. As the decades wound on, we reached the point where the anti-equal marriage Proposition 8 passed in California. That was a winnable electoral cause--Prop 8 won because gay people slept on it till too late--but activists were insistent that their rights were too important to voted on by people, that they had to be won in the Supreme Court.

Since the pro-rights court was a historical accident and the court is now reverting to its usual state, that's turned out to be a shit strategy. Building a movement is harder than winning a court case, but it lasts a whole lot longer. Movements have democratic power. They contain multitudes and those multitudes all vote, all march, and seldom get in line when you threaten them. Even when you lose, you gain something. Lose in court and you get a handshake and a bill.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

John A Arkansawyer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

Cole Younger wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:16 pm
Do you call them riots and not “peaceful protests”?
I call them riots which were inevitable, because they were warranted, after George Floyd's murder. After several years of vigorous protest--beginning with militant non-violence and mostly staying that way until very recently--against denial of equal protection under law by the police, it became clear that rule of law isn't functioning and stronger measures had to be taken. And it worked. After the riots against George Floyd's murder, some actual structural changes started being made. Not everywhere, and municipal changes are being repressed by states, but it's progress.

This is playing out differently from the Civil Rights movement. It's easier to protest denial of something you can walk up and ask for, by walking up and asking for it: A bus ride. A hamburger. A job. How do you protest not getting equal protection under the law by those who enforce that law? When rule of law doesn't apply to you? So it started in a higher gear, around the level of the Birmingham campaign of 1963. That was known among the staff as "Project C" because the real name was Project Confrontation. The goal was to expose how black people were treated in Birmingham by confronting the authorities and obstructing business as usual by flooding downtown Birmingham with black people. It blocked traffic and was accused of keeping ambulances from getting through. It blocked businesses that wouldn't hire blacks. It ended up with schoolchildren being attacked by dogs and hosed down by firemen--it's a miracle none of them were killed, but kids are tough--and saw (for the first time I'm aware of) bystanders unconnected with the protests start throwing rocks and bottles at the police at that sight. For all that it was non-violent--and it was, on the part of the protesters--it was still a street fight.

Black Lives Matter started at around this level of intensity, which is fair for a problem left hanging for decades.

If there'd been a broad-based, citizen-led effort against police criminality, or a political party which took the lead--but there was not. There aren't broad-based efforts any more--gotta give every little faction its own turf, like Chicago, or Yugoslavia--and the party that leads has been headed the wrong way.

I'm not glad events have taken this turn. I would've liked a different development. But I honestly don't see another path forward which served the specific legitimate goals of those who organized it. So this is what we got.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

John A Arkansawyer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

Cole Younger wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:15 pm
I really don’t know how the democrats ended up with a worse candidate than Hillary. That did t seem possible.
They didn't, because it wasn't. Hilary Clinton was a disastrously lousy candidate in every possible way. Biden wasn't a great choice, but he's capable of running for president. And he occasionally doesn't act like a Democrat--he doesn't always kiss ass. If Trump tries that 'walk behind the speaker' trick that made Hilary look weak and stupid on stage, Biden will call him on it. He might get in his face about it. America is aching for someone who calls people on their bullshit, to their face and in plain language.

But "basket of deplorables". It's like the Democratic Party had a death wish and named it Hilary. If she hadn't existed, the party would have invented her.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by jr29 »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:18 am
Cole Younger wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:15 pm
I really don’t know how the democrats ended up with a worse candidate than Hillary. That did t seem possible.
They didn't, because it wasn't. Hilary Clinton was a disastrously lousy candidate in every possible way. Biden wasn't a great choice, but he's capable of running for president. And he occasionally doesn't act like a Democrat--he doesn't always kiss ass. If Trump tries that 'walk behind the speaker' trick that made Hilary look weak and stupid on stage, Biden will call him on it. He might get in his face about it. America is aching for someone who calls people on their bullshit, to their face and in plain language.

But "basket of deplorables". It's like the Democratic Party had a death wish and named it Hilary. If she hadn't existed, the party would have invented her.
I've often wondered how different things might have been if Hillary had just said "can I help you ?" when he pulled that trick.

Biden is a red ass. He would absolutely say something to Trump if he tried the same thing.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

I dont doubt that Biden will say something. What I also don’t doubt is that is exactly what Orange Man wants. He wants Biden to get emotional and mad because he knows he will say something stupid if he does. Something on the order of dog faced pony soldier or worse. I don’t really care that he said that and don’t even know the context of what was going on. But it’s easy to make him look dumb when he says things like that. You can shrug it off and say it doesn’t matter and maybe it shouldn’t but it’s Michael Dukakis in the helmet type stuff. Does it matter? Not in a vacuum. Does it help an already cemented narrative that he’s buffoonish, confused, and easily manipulated? Yeah it does. I absolutely expect Orange Man to goad Biden into making himself look foolish. And while I agree the debates don’t win it for anybody the debates can sure lose it for them.

And really all Orange Man has to do is keep repeating that the Democrats are the party of riots and lawlessness. That they want you arrested if you try to defend your home or your business but think you have a perfect right destroy other people’s homes and businesses. There is really nothing Biden is going to be able to say to dig out of that hole. He will yammer something about how that isn’t true etc but that narrative is cemented and AOC and Biden’s running mate telling people to “stay in the streets” etc doesn’t help. Orange Man can also bring up Biden saying “You’re damn right I’m coming for your guns.” as a part of all this. Biden may win but it ain’t going to be easy. His party has done him no favors. The Democrats did what they so often do, misjudged how tolerant the country is a whole is for left wing politics ie “resist! Stay in the streets!” while cities burn. And they overplayed their hand yet again.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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Being against BLM today is like being pro-KKK in the 60s. not a good look and i'm pretty confident that history will prove me right.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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someone wrote
From where you sit I’m sure that’s true. People having their property destroyed in the name of BLM think that is insanity and I’m pretty sure they’re right.
how much has burned down? the Targets, Apple stores and the other multi-national companies can handle the losses just fine, and i would imagine the the breakdown of 'people having their properties burned' vs large companies is pretty lopsided in one direction. what if there were no videos of the atrocities perpetrated in the last handful of months? i'm sure we'd still be where we were. at least there are discussions and some changes afoot now.

but Breonna Taylor's murderers still walk around free. go figure.
[quote="linkous"]There are three genres of music. Good music, bad music, and music made by The Fall.[/quote]

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by jr29 »

Cole Younger wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:08 pm
I dont doubt that Biden will say something. What I also don’t doubt is that is exactly what Orange Man wants. He wants Biden to get emotional and mad because he knows he will say something stupid if he does. Something on the order of dog faced pony soldier or worse. I don’t really care that he said that and don’t even know the context of what was going on. But it’s easy to make him look dumb when he says things like that. You can shrug it off and say it doesn’t matter and maybe it shouldn’t but it’s Michael Dukakis in the helmet type stuff. Does it matter? Not in a vacuum. Does it help an already cemented narrative that he’s buffoonish, confused, and easily manipulated? Yeah it does. I absolutely expect Orange Man to goad Biden into making himself look foolish. And while I agree the debates don’t win it for anybody the debates can sure lose it for them.

And really all Orange Man has to do is keep repeating that the Democrats are the party of riots and lawlessness. That they want you arrested if you try to defend your home or your business but think you have a perfect right destroy other people’s homes and businesses. There is really nothing Biden is going to be able to say to dig out of that hole. He will yammer something about how that isn’t true etc but that narrative is cemented and AOC and Biden’s running mate telling people to “stay in the streets” etc doesn’t help. Orange Man can also bring up Biden saying “You’re damn right I’m coming for your guns.” as a part of all this. Biden may win but it ain’t going to be easy. His party has done him no favors. The Democrats did what they so often do, misjudged how tolerant the country is a whole is for left wing politics ie “resist! Stay in the streets!” while cities burn. And they overplayed their hand yet again.
I don't think the right has done a good job of connecting Biden with the far left. Either they haven't done a good job or Biden and his camp have done a good job distancing him from it. Even when they have tried it with Harris they turn around in the next breath and say she was too tough on folks when she was a prosecutor.
With that said, a third of the country absolutely believes Biden is a socialist nut job. I just don't think the 6 or 7 percent of people whose votes really matter are buying it.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by jr29 »

tinnitus photography wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:50 pm
someone wrote
From where you sit I’m sure that’s true. People having their property destroyed in the name of BLM think that is insanity and I’m pretty sure they’re right.
how much has burned down? the Targets, Apple stores and the other multi-national companies can handle the losses just fine, and i would imagine the the breakdown of 'people having their properties burned' vs large companies is pretty lopsided in one direction. what if there were no videos of the atrocities perpetrated in the last handful of months? i'm sure we'd still be where we were. at least there are discussions and some changes afoot now.

but Breonna Taylor's murderers still walk around free. go figure.
What if you or someone you cared about was working in a pizza place when a brick sailed through the window ?

I think I understand the angst but I wouldn't be ok with that.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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jr29 wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:01 pm
tinnitus photography wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:50 pm
someone wrote
From where you sit I’m sure that’s true. People having their property destroyed in the name of BLM think that is insanity and I’m pretty sure they’re right.
how much has burned down? the Targets, Apple stores and the other multi-national companies can handle the losses just fine, and i would imagine the the breakdown of 'people having their properties burned' vs large companies is pretty lopsided in one direction. what if there were no videos of the atrocities perpetrated in the last handful of months? i'm sure we'd still be where we were. at least there are discussions and some changes afoot now.

but Breonna Taylor's murderers still walk around free. go figure.
What if you or someone you cared about was working in a pizza place when a brick sailed through the window ?

I think I understand the angst but I wouldn't be ok with that.
i am not saying i condone wholesale violence. i guess my point is, and i admit it's a nebulous one, is that eventually one realizes that peaceful protests don't do shit and other means are necessary. our country was borne of violence and that history continues, for better or for worse.

MLK, 1967
Certain conditions continue to exist in our society, which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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We agree on Breonna Taylor, tinnitus. We also agree that police brutality can’t be tolerated. What we don’t agree on is that’s ok to destroy things if you’re mad and that it really doesn’t count if it’s rich people’s stuff that you destroy because they can afford it. No way.

If we decide it’s ok to riot and hurt people if you think it’s justified, where does that stop? Are only certain people allowed that because they’ve historically gotten a raw deal? I don’t think we can go down that road and expect that to work.

What if it was somebody else doing the rioting? Then what? I’m the resident hillbilly so I’ll use my own kind as an example. What if we continue down this road and decide that we have to allow rioting and it’s ok because a lot of the property being destroyed belongs to people who can afford it even though I don’t know that that is whole story there. What if decide certain people have to be allowed to do this. There will be a backlash eventually won’t there? What will that look like?

Well let’s just say Biden wins and the democrats hold the house and then take back the Senate. The far left feels vindicated and decides most of America agrees with them. So they start putting the screws to the conservatives at every opportunity. More and more we hear that conservative white men are the problem in this country and should be treated as such. This continues and eventually people get fed up.

Now you have nothing to fear from me. I’m a country boy in rural Georgia who works and in his free time spends time with his family and hunts and fishes. But guys like me own a lot of guns. And are a lot better with them than our counterparts on the far left. What if the bubbas of this country decide they need to riot? Will that be ok? If not, why not? How can it be ok for some people to riot and destroy property and not others?

This is road we do not want to continue down. If we don’t have law and order we don’t have much of anything and deciding special groups are entitled to it is something we can’t afford long term as a country.

Police brutality is a serious problem. Does that make it ok for people to go out and destroy people’s property and hurt people? What if it was one of your kids that got hurt? What if it was one of your parents and all they had done was end up in the wrong place at the wrong time? BLM might have started as one thing but is now run by a self described Marxist who is plain about hating this country and it has become little more than a black supremacist movement. To me that makes siding with them just like siding with the KKK in the sixties.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

Also, using quotes from the past to justify the present can be a bad idea-

“The white liberal is the person who has perfected the art of selling themselves to the black man as our ‘friend’ to get our sympathy, our allegiance and our minds. The white liberal attempts to use us politically against white conservatives, so that anything the black man does is never for his own good, never for his advancement, never for his own progress, he’s only a pawn in the hands of the white liberal.”

“I only cite these things to show you that in America the history of white liberal has been nothing but a series of trickery designed to make us think that the white liberal was going to solve our problems. Our problems will never be solved by the white liberal. The only way that our problems will be solved is when the black man wakes up, cleans himself up, stands on his own two feet, stops begging the white liberal and takes immediate steps to do for ourselves the things that we have been waiting on the white liberal to do for us.”

“The media’s the most powerful entity on Earth. They have the power to make the innocent look guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that’s power. Because they control the mind of the masses.”

“The Democrats are playing you for a political chump and if you vote for them, not only are you a chump, you are a traitor to your race.”

The person who spoke these words was Malcolm-X. He was assassinated two days after expressing the last quote. I
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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i'm glad we agree on those things, Cole. the problem is that they continue to happen. I mean, the reason some of these flashpoint issues have stirred up violence is that they were recorded. how many instances don't go recorded, now or in the past?

again i am not condoning violence, but i think i can understand at least a little bit of what's fueled it. not sure if hillbillies have the same grievances to rise up as african-americans but if they do i will gather what info i can and decide if it's warranted or not.
Well let’s just say Biden wins and the democrats hold the house and then take back the Senate. The far left feels vindicated and decides most of America agrees with them. So they start putting the screws to the conservatives at every opportunity.
the republicans wrote this playbook... i don't think the Dems are your worst thing to fear but then again i can't speak for you. it's really funny how Biden/Harris have been branded as radical, far left politicians. nothing could be further from the truth. but fox news thinks otherwise so these labels get traction.

i view BLM a bit differently than you, as i don't see it as some sort of centralized movement at all, just a grassroots response to frustration to the fact that really not much has changed.

Ferguson was 6 years ago.

i want our country to be safe - don't think i want otherwise. i also think the 'law and order' contingent is perfectly ok w/ the large scale fraud, tax evasion, insider trading etc that goes on routinely, or at least it's out of sight, out of mind. it's still boggling to think that barely anyone was punished for the 2008 meltdown.


edit - i've read my share of X and Baldwin and can't say i disagree with them on those points. but when the alternative to the Democrats is Trump? i'll pull that lever all day long.
[quote="linkous"]There are three genres of music. Good music, bad music, and music made by The Fall.[/quote]

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

tinnitus photography wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:04 pm
i'm glad we agree on those things, Cole. the problem is that they continue to happen. I mean, the reason some of these flashpoint issues have stirred up violence is that they were recorded. how many instances don't go recorded, now or in the past?

again i am not condoning violence, but i think i can understand at least a little bit of what's fueled it. not sure if hillbillies have the same grievances to rise up as african-americans but if they do i will gather what info i can and decide if it's warranted or not.
Well let’s just say Biden wins and the democrats hold the house and then take back the Senate. The far left feels vindicated and decides most of America agrees with them. So they start putting the screws to the conservatives at every opportunity.
the republicans wrote this playbook... i don't think the Dems are your worst thing to fear but then again i can't speak for you. it's really funny how Biden/Harris have been branded as radical, far left politicians. nothing could be further from the truth. but fox news thinks otherwise so these labels get traction.

i view BLM a bit differently than you, as i don't see it as some sort of centralized movement at all, just a grassroots response to frustration to the fact that really not much has changed.

Ferguson was 6 years ago.

i want our country to be safe - don't think i want otherwise. i also think the 'law and order' contingent is perfectly ok w/ the large scale fraud, tax evasion, insider trading etc that goes on routinely, or at least it's out of sight, out of mind. it's still boggling to think that barely anyone was punished for the 2008 meltdown.


edit - i've read my share of X and Baldwin and can't say i disagree with them on those points.
Agree that the instances that were recorded aren’t the only ones. That makes perfect sense.

I don’t mean to say that hillbillies and black peoples have the same grievances. It was just an example of how something can seem ok when it’s a group that you sympathize with but not ok at all when it’s one that you don’t.

I agree that Biden and Harris are not radicals. They’re corporatists Democrats.

I’m right there with you that the rich boys are allowed to commit their crimes while others are not and that is dead wrong. We really aren’t all that far apart it seems. Not on this anyway.🍺
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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Cheers Cole. Enjoy your Sunday.
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