The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

Mike Damone, who, like the Mooch, is a little prick, lasted longer than Scarramucci

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

I may be wrong- the chances are always pretty high that I am wrong- but I *think* Trump has not come to the west since being elected. I am not even certain if he's crossed the Mississippi, he may have been to Iowa. Assuming I am correct, is this unusual for a POTUS over 6 months in to not come out this way? I know it is said that he never likes to be more than a few hours from a Trump property but that excuse doesn't even hold up in this scenario, because at the very least he has a hotel in Las Vegas

[tinnitus photography]

i was gonna say wait until winter closes the eastern golf courses but there's still florida.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

Every time Stephen Miller makes an appearance I can't decide if he's a ghoul, a homunculus, Bat Boy, or the Slenderman




Stephen Miller, another dook alumni, along with Dick Nixon, Kenneth Starr, and Christian Laettner. Nuke the place, nuke it now

[beantownbubba]

Does anyone have an idea/proposal about what a sensible immigration policy might look like? NOTE: I'm talking about the policy/standards/procedures for people to apply to immigrate legally (not what we should do w/ illegal immigrants who are already here). I don't think the new Trump plan is the answer but damned if I know what is.

[beantownbubba]

Speaking of immigration, is legal immigration even a problem that requires serious focus in the first place? That's not rhetorical. As I understand it, currently about a million people a year immigrate legally and Trump's plan would cut that in half. Is there a concern that we let in 500,000 too many people/year? I understand musings about tweaking the current rules, e.g. the debate between encouraging people w/ certain skills to immigrate v. questioning whether those people unfairly compete w/ existing US citizens, but is there a serious problem w/ the current number or w/ the current standards for admission? In asking the latter question, I'm assuming that my vague understanding of the rules is largely correct: One must have certain specified and desired skills (and be sponsored by an employer) or one must have an existing family relationship w/ current citizens, there's a complicated formula that establishes quotas based on country or region of origin* and everyone goes through a serious vetting process.

*I don't know what the factors are in establishing the quotas.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Speaking of immigration, is legal immigration even a problem that requires serious focus in the first place? That's not rhetorical. As I understand it, currently about a million people a year immigrate legally and Trump's plan would cut that in half. Is there a concern that we let in 500,000 too many people/year? I understand musings about tweaking the current rules, e.g. the debate between encouraging people w/ certain skills to immigrate v. questioning whether those people unfairly compete w/ existing US citizens, but is there a serious problem w/ the current number or w/ the current standards for admission? In asking the latter question, I'm assuming that my vague understanding of the rules is largely correct: One must have certain specified and desired skills (and be sponsored by an employer) or one must have an existing family relationship w/ current citizens, there's a complicated formula that establishes quotas based on country or region of origin* and everyone goes through a serious vetting process.

*I don't know what the factors are in establishing the quotas.

Don't forget that in this proposed legislation that, with few exceptions, they have to speak fluent English before they get here. This is just red meat for the base. If it comes close to passing I'll be even more discouraged than I am now.

[beantownbubba]

Don't forget that in this proposed legislation that, with few exceptions, they have to speak fluent English before they get here. This is just red meat for the base. If it comes close to passing I'll be even more discouraged than I am now.

Yep. I stayed away from that in my posts because I was trying to get at something different, i.e. it's hard to view this requirement other than in the obvious negative light. I'm trying to get some sense of whether the law needs changing and in what ways, w/out getting into the "different subject, same argument" syndrome we're all accustomed to.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

Don't forget that in this proposed legislation that, with few exceptions, they have to speak fluent English before they get here. This is just red meat for the base. If it comes close to passing I'll be even more discouraged than I am now.

Yep. I stayed away from that in my posts because I was trying to get at something different, i.e. it's hard to view this requirement other than in the obvious negative light. I'm trying to get some sense of whether the law needs changing and in what ways, w/out getting into the "different subject, same argument" syndrome we're all accustomed to.

what about all the Americans born here (from families that have been here for generations and generations) who still can't speak fluent English?

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

Speaking of immigration, is legal immigration even a problem that requires serious focus in the first place?

in my amateur opinion, NO

like transgenders in the military, it's another "solution" in search of a problem

[beantownbubba]

what about all the Americans born here (from families that have been here for generations and generations) who still can't speak fluent English?

Yep. Again, I'm trying to separate this element which seems to be totally hot button play to the base-related from the overall issue of whether "immigration reform" w/ respect to legal immigrants is even a problem requiring a solution, if i may borrow a phrase. As a "political consumer" my immediate reaction on hearing about the new plan was to keep my ears open until they got to the language requirement. At that point it was immediately obvious to me what the "game" and the message is and I reverted to my usual cynical angry self. I guess the question I'm trying to pose is, even if the English requirement is bogus, is there a problem and does this plan (other than the English requirement) address it?

[4sooner]

Don't forget that in this proposed legislation that, with few exceptions, they have to speak fluent English before they get here. This is just red meat for the base. If it comes close to passing I'll be even more discouraged than I am now.

Yep. I stayed away from that in my posts because I was trying to get at something different, i.e. it's hard to view this requirement other than in the obvious negative light. I'm trying to get some sense of whether the law needs changing and in what ways, w/out getting into the "different subject, same argument" syndrome we're all accustomed to.

what about all the Americans born here (from families that have been here for generations and generations) who still can't speak fluent English?

"Melania, we need to have a word with you...."

[Flea]

You know, if you were to put them in brown shirts...

[Cole Younger]

Well I'm mostly staying away from here these days but we have ourselves quite a circus.

Personally, I think people are attributing things to evil intentions on the part of the president when often it is just plain old incompetence and ignorance. Not everything obviously but definitely a lot of it. I mean he stuck with the Mooch even after the Mooch had been spewing epithets and insults about people like a seventh grade boy for an entire week. And then, instead of sitting him down and telling him he was going to have to cool it and that he couldn't talk like that, he fires him and just makes it even worse in the short term.

The president basically talks and acts like a cab driver from New York himself. And he does things you would expect a cab driver from New York to do if he had billions of dollars. He marries models. He has golden toilets. He builds huge buildings with his name on them.

The pettiness is what never fails to amaze me. He is the most powerful man in the world and he is up at three o'clock in the morning insulting and as it turns out also blocking people on Twitter. Lol! I mean, come on.

I actually want him to be a good president because I want all presidents to be a good president but it ain't like I'm holding my breath.

Also, I think a percentage of people on my side of the aisle don't even care what kind of job he does. They just want him to continue pissing off the left. President Obama trolled the right while he was president and you had the media elite etc looking down their noses at the right and rural America laughing at them but also shaming them for not being able to appreciate a president who, in their mind, was almost the embodiment of a best case scenario. So now, a percentage of the right just wants revenge. They love when the president insults the left. They love when he calls a liberal a name and they love when he trashes CNN or Mika what's her name and says bizarre things about her being out in public bleeding from her plastic surgery scars. Aside from being beneath what a preside t is supposed to behave like, I don't even believe that story was true. Who goes out in public bleeding from the face?

But a sizeable percentage of the right doesn't care. They love him pissing the left off so much that they don't even care whether or not he makes any headway as president toward anything they would see as a positive. He said he takes so many golf trips because the white House is "too shabby". And there are a bunch of people on the right who don't even care. As a conservative, I know for a fact that if Barak Obama had said that, the right would have exploded.

And on the left there are people who truly seem to believe that he is going g to be impeached or is going to step down. I don't think there is any way either of those two things are going to happen.

[Iowan]

Well I'm mostly staying away from here these days but we have ourselves quite a circus.

Personally, I think people are attributing things to evil intentions on the part of the president when often it is just plain old incompetence and ignorance. Not everything obviously but definitely a lot of it. I mean he stuck with the Mooch even after the Mooch had been spewing epithets and insults about people like a seventh grade boy for an entire week. And then, instead of sitting him down and telling him he was going to have to cool it and that he couldn't talk like that, he fires him and just makes it even worse in the short term.

The president basically talks and acts like a cab driver from New York himself. And he does things you would expect a cab driver from New York to do if he had billions of dollars. He marries models. He has golden toilets. He builds huge buildings with his name on them.

The pettiness is what never fails to amaze me. He is the most powerful man in the world and he is up at three o'clock in the morning insulting and as it turns out also blocking people on Twitter. Lol! I mean, come on.

I actually want him to be a good president because I want all presidents to be a good president but it ain't like I'm holding my breath.

Also, I think a percentage of people on my side of the aisle don't even care what kind of job he does. They just want him to continue pissing off the left. President Obama trolled the right while he was president and you had the media elite etc looking down their noses at the right and rural America laughing at them but also shaming them for not being able to appreciate a president who, in their mind, was almost the embodiment of a best case scenario. So now, a percentage of the right just wants revenge. They love when the president insults the left. They love when he calls a liberal a name and they love when he trashes CNN or Mika what's her name and says bizarre things about her being out in public bleeding from her plastic surgery scars. Aside from being beneath what a preside t is supposed to behave like, I don't even believe that story was true. Who goes out in public bleeding from the face?

But a sizeable percentage of the right doesn't care. They love him pissing the left off so much that they don't even care whether or not he makes any headway as president toward anything they would see as a positive. He said he takes so many golf trips because the white House is "too shabby". And there are a bunch of people on the right who don't even care. As a conservative, I know for a fact that if Barak Obama had said that, the right would have exploded.

And on the left there are people who truly seem to believe that he is going g to be impeached or is going to step down. I don't think there is any way either of those two things are going to happen.

I think you listened to JRE this week.

I'm halfway through that podcast. I like that Rogan brings in people with differing political stances, and they actually have a conversation. I like Shapiro more than most conservative pundits because he's at least capable of seeing the bullshit on his side of the aisle. I don't like how quick he is to basically say that left leaning folks are idiots (this was early on). Rogan and I have a lot of common ground, politically, and I find interviews with guys like Shapiro far more interesting than a circle jerk of like minded people congratulating themselves.

From what I've heard so far, I think there's a lot of truth in those takes. I still think Trump gets impeached, and I think it's going to be because he's fought enough with the Republicans that they're going to turn on him.

[Cole Younger]

Well I'm mostly staying away from here these days but we have ourselves quite a circus.

Personally, I think people are attributing things to evil intentions on the part of the president when often it is just plain old incompetence and ignorance. Not everything obviously but definitely a lot of it. I mean he stuck with the Mooch even after the Mooch had been spewing epithets and insults about people like a seventh grade boy for an entire week. And then, instead of sitting him down and telling him he was going to have to cool it and that he couldn't talk like that, he fires him and just makes it even worse in the short term.

The president basically talks and acts like a cab driver from New York himself. And he does things you would expect a cab driver from New York to do if he had billions of dollars. He marries models. He has golden toilets. He builds huge buildings with his name on them.

The pettiness is what never fails to amaze me. He is the most powerful man in the world and he is up at three o'clock in the morning insulting and as it turns out also blocking people on Twitter. Lol! I mean, come on.

I actually want him to be a good president because I want all presidents to be a good president but it ain't like I'm holding my breath.

Also, I think a percentage of people on my side of the aisle don't even care what kind of job he does. They just want him to continue pissing off the left. President Obama trolled the right while he was president and you had the media elite etc looking down their noses at the right and rural America laughing at them but also shaming them for not being able to appreciate a president who, in their mind, was almost the embodiment of a best case scenario. So now, a percentage of the right just wants revenge. They love when the president insults the left. They love when he calls a liberal a name and they love when he trashes CNN or Mika what's her name and says bizarre things about her being out in public bleeding from her plastic surgery scars. Aside from being beneath what a preside t is supposed to behave like, I don't even believe that story was true. Who goes out in public bleeding from the face?

But a sizeable percentage of the right doesn't care. They love him pissing the left off so much that they don't even care whether or not he makes any headway as president toward anything they would see as a positive. He said he takes so many golf trips because the white House is "too shabby". And there are a bunch of people on the right who don't even care. As a conservative, I know for a fact that if Barak Obama had said that, the right would have exploded.

And on the left there are people who truly seem to believe that he is going g to be impeached or is going to step down. I don't think there is any way either of those two things are going to happen.

I think you listened to JRE this week.

I'm halfway through that podcast. I like that Rogan brings in people with differing political stances, and they actually have a conversation. I like Shapiro more than most conservative pundits because he's at least capable of seeing the bullshit on his side of the aisle. I don't like how quick he is to basically say that left leaning folks are idiots (this was early on). Rogan and I have a lot of common ground, politically, and I find interviews with guys like Shapiro far more interesting than a circle jerk of like minded people congratulating themselves.

From what I've heard so far, I think there's a lot of truth in those takes. I still think Trump gets impeached, and I think it's going to be because he's fought enough with the Republicans that they're going to turn on him.

Yep. Rogan said some similar stuff the other day too. Another thing I read earlier in the week was pretty similar as well. Dont know who got there first but I agree with it.

I always like when people who maybe don't see things the same can sit down and have a conversation without screaming at each other and playing gotcha. It happens so seldom now that it is almost a shock when it does happen.

I'm not buying that he gets impeached. But I guess it really depends on what a person means when they say impeached. It seems like most people think that means he is going to be thrown out of office. I think those folks will be disappointed. These are the people who are clinging to ideas that Clinton didn't really lose because somehow Trump cheated.

[Tequila Cowboy]

I'm not buying that he gets impeached. But I guess it really depends on what a person means when they sat impeached. It seems like most people think that means he is going to be thrown out of office. I think those folks will be disappointed. These are the people who are clinging to ideas that Clinton didn't really lose because somehow Trump cheated.

Well, I don't think he cheated and HIlary lost fair and square based on our laws. No issues there. The question of whether he will be impeached/removed from office/resign I have zero doubt of that. Zero. This investigation is too multi layered and is moving way too fast for me not to think that's the case. The speed, particularly in convening the Grand Jury, indicates Mueller thinks there is an existential threat and that too much time could lead to further coverups. Like most scandals what gets you isn't the crime, it's the cover up and I think that's the case here. The fact that Congress looks to have the votes to pass legislation preventing the President from firing Mueller, a tally that looks veto-proof btw, indicates to me that Republicans believe this about Mueller's investigation too and that soon Trump will become too big a liability for them to endure, particularly with midterms coming. We've seen evidence of crimes publicly, but those are small potatoes and would never be enough to remove a President, it's what's being investigated with unusual haste that has me believing the way I do.

All that said, it's not good for the country. None of this is. Clearly a large segment of people will always believe this was a "witch hunt" and those people will feel further isolated. These are dark times, and they don't all have to do with Trump.

[Cole Younger]

I'm not buying that he gets impeached. But I guess it really depends on what a person means when they sat impeached. It seems like most people think that means he is going to be thrown out of office. I think those folks will be disappointed. These are the people who are clinging to ideas that Clinton didn't really lose because somehow Trump cheated.

Well, I don't think he cheated and HIlary lost fair and square based on our laws. No issues there. The question of whether he will be impeached/removed from office/resign I have zero doubt of that. Zero. This investigation is too multi layered and is moving way too fast for me not to think that's the case. The speed, particularly in convening the Grand Jury, indicates Mueller thinks there is an existential threat and that too much time could lead to further coverups. Like most scandals what gets you isn't the crime, it's the cover up and I think that's the case here. The fact that Congress looks to have the votes to pass legislation preventing the President from firing Mueller, a tally that looks veto-proof btw, indicates to me that Republicans believe this about Mueller's investigation too and that soon Trump will become too big a liability for them to endure, particularly with midterms coming. We've seen evidence of crimes publicly, but those are small potatoes and would never be enough to remove a President, it's what's being investigated with unusual haste that has me believing the way I do.

All that said, it's not good for the country. None of this is. Clearly a large segment of people will always believe this was a "witch hunt" and those people will feel further isolated. These are dark times, and they don't all have to do with Trump.

I guess they are going to have to show me. Lol. I say that because I have lost count of how many times the Democrats and the media have acted as if it was a done deal. "We've finally got him!". And it turned out to be something like that nonsense Rachel Maddow came up with. They are Geraldo looking for Al Capone's vault. You may turn out to be right and I wrong but...they are going g to have to show me. And Mueller and company are just about a sure fire way to make people believe it is a witch hunt because that's exactly what it looks like regardless of what it is or isn't.

Agree that it is bad for the country. All the way around. And I agree that Trump is more of a symptom than the problem.

[Iowan]

I think he'll definitely be impeached the way Clinton was, IE with a house vote.

I don't know if the Senate will remove him. I think if house impeachment looks likely, he'll be more likely to resign. Trump is going to quit before he gets fired, IMO. Like TC said, Congress is already in-step in preventing him from firing the investigator, and they're moving faster all the time. I think what will come out is just more evidence of low level collusion, and really haphazard attempts to cover it up.

[Cole Younger]

The cover up is always worse than the crime for sure.

The worst part of this is going to be where we go from here. An absolutely furious political right and an emboldened "you can't beat us" political left. It ain't good.

[Beebs]

I say that because I have lost count of how many times the Democrats and the media have acted as if it was a done deal. "We've finally got him!"

I'm diligent in making sure my news comes from a wide variety of sources and I have no experience with "the Democrats" or "the media" being all gotcha! about anything. Is it possible that you're giving too much credit to each headline and development of the hour?

And that's really just a hopefully respectful way of me saying "confirmation bias?"

[Cole Younger]

I say that because I have lost count of how many times the Democrats and the media have acted as if it was a done deal. "We've finally got him!"

I'm diligent in making sure my news comes from a wide variety of sources and I have no experience with "the Democrats" or "the media" being all gotcha! about anything. Is it possible that you're giving too much credit to each headline and development of the hour?

And that's really just a hopefully respectful way of me saying "confirmation bias?"

Possible but not likely. I didn't vote for Trump and view him as an extension of Barak Obama (who I didn't like) in that he seems to think being president means he can do whatever he wants. and while a lot of power is granted to the president it seems to get worse each time in terms the president governing by decree and getting away with it. Or put another way, he exactly what I don't like but knew would happen.

Maybe people would be more receptive to not having such a powerful federal government now?

[Zip City]

Trump was a "useful idiot" when he was elected. When he's moved from "useful" to "liability" is when Congress will turn on him. I would have thought that line had been crossed (several times) already but here we are

[Zip City]

I'm not sure what Obama did that warrants an accusation of him "thinking he can do whatever he wants", but perception is reality i guess *shrug*

[Cole Younger]

I'm not sure what Obama did that warrants an accusation of him "thinking he can do whatever he wants", but perception is reality i guess *shrug*

Well when you root for a particular team it makes it a lot tougher to see their flaws I imagine. President Obama didn't invent it. W swung things hard in that direction and O kept the ball rolling. But the people who were outraged at W for doing it didnt mind when O did it(some of us did but not many). And then some of us warned, "You aren't going to like this when the other team gets in there and does the same thing". But that was so far in the future that it didn't matter. While Trump was running it never even seemed to occurr that he might get a chance at governing by decree, fiat,whatever you want to call it, but that was answered with laughter. The minute he won, "Oh my God! Resist! Resist!".

If a lot of people hadn't gotten so cozy with the idea of a federal government on steroids there would be no need for a resistance or whatever they call it now. But that horse is out of the barn and saying "I told you so" doesn't make it any better.

[Zip City]

I'm not sure what Obama did that warrants an accusation of him "thinking he can do whatever he wants", but perception is reality i guess *shrug*

Well when you root for a particular team it makes it a lot tougher to see their flaws I imagine. President Obama didn't invent it. W swung things hard in that direction and O kept the ball rolling. But the people who were outraged at W for doing it didnt mind when O did it(some of us did but not many). And then some of us warned, "You aren't going to like this when the other team gets in there and does the same thing". But that was so far in the future that it didn't matter. While Trump was running it never even seemed to occurr that he might get a chance at governing by decree, fiat,whatever you want to call it, but that was answered with laughter. The minute he won, "Oh my God! Resist! Resist!".

If a lot of people hadn't gotten so cozy with the idea of a federal government on steroids there would be no need for a resistance or whatever they call it now. But that horse is out of the barn and saying "I told you so" doesn't make it any better.

Didn't rally answer the question though.

[Cole Younger]

Trump was a "useful idiot" when he was elected. When he's moved from "useful" to "liability" is when Congress will turn on him. I would have thought that line had been crossed (several times) already but here we are

I agree with the first part to an extent. He was a useful idiot but the Republicans have never liked him. He was always viewed as a liability.

[Cole Younger]

I'm not sure what Obama did that warrants an accusation of him "thinking he can do whatever he wants", but perception is reality i guess *shrug*

Well when you root for a particular team it makes it a lot tougher to see their flaws I imagine. President Obama didn't invent it. W swung things hard in that direction and O kept the ball rolling. But the people who were outraged at W for doing it didnt mind when O did it(some of us did but not many). And then some of us warned, "You aren't going to like this when the other team gets in there and does the same thing". But that was so far in the future that it didn't matter. While Trump was running it never even seemed to occurr that he might get a chance at governing by decree, fiat,whatever you want to call it, but that was answered with laughter. The minute he won, "Oh my God! Resist! Resist!".

If a lot of people hadn't gotten so cozy with the idea of a federal government on steroids there would be no need for a resistance or whatever they call it now. But that horse is out of the barn and saying "I told you so" doesn't make it any better.

Didn't rally answer the question though.

You didn't ask a question.

[Zip City]

What are the executive orders and decrees that Obama made that have you so upset?