Coronavirus - COVID-19

[Cole Younger]

Saying Fauci created and/or is responsible for any variant of COVID is unproven, wildly disingenuous conspiracy theory stuff.

I’m not so sure. Maybe. But I’m not so sure. So what about the rest of it as far as contrasting the reaction to small pocks and this? Is he wrong?

[Zip City]

Saying Fauci created and/or is responsible for any variant of COVID is unproven, wildly disingenuous conspiracy theory stuff.

I’m not so sure. Maybe. But I’m not so sure. So what about the rest of it as far as contesting the reaction to small pocks and this? Is he wrong?

Well, "Fauci is the world's greatest supervillain" narrative aside (which I still don't get, but whatever), I would say that small pox should not be standard by which we create/implement public health policy. If he is suggesting that no disease should be mitigated unless it rises to the levels of small pox death rates, well I simply don't agree. He also ignores that many many mistakes were made during the Small Pox vaccine era which might have saved thousands more lives.

[Cole Younger]

Saying Fauci created and/or is responsible for any variant of COVID is unproven, wildly disingenuous conspiracy theory stuff.

I’m not so sure. Maybe. But I’m not so sure. So what about the rest of it as far as contesting the reaction to small pocks and this? Is he wrong?

Well, "Fauci is the world's greatest supervillain" narrative aside (which I still don't get, but whatever), I would say that small pox should not be standard by which we create/implement public health policy. If he is suggesting that no disease should be mitigated unless it rises to the levels of small pox death rates, well I simply don't agree. He also ignores that many many mistakes were made during the Small Pox vaccine era which might have saved thousands more lives.

Well one thing we agree on is vaccines are a blessing. Where we don’t agree is getting behind one based on the politics of it. Do some reading on the polio vaccine and how long that took and how hesitant Salk was to declare it ready for mass distribution and application because he knew it wasn’t something that could be done quickly despite his desire to have it ready. I understand medicine has advanced a lot since then. But to have something rolled out in weeks and then have people talking about demanding proof that you’ve had it seems ill advised at best and stupid and politically motivated at worst not to mention draconian. I can’t speak for everyone not wanting this thing but for me it’s been rushed like nothing every before and the arm twisting by the government about it makes me suspicious. That’s never happened before either. Why? Is this administration just the smartest in history? Hardly.

[Zip City]

I’m not so sure. Maybe. But I’m not so sure. So what about the rest of it as far as contesting the reaction to small pocks and this? Is he wrong?

Well, "Fauci is the world's greatest supervillain" narrative aside (which I still don't get, but whatever), I would say that small pox should not be standard by which we create/implement public health policy. If he is suggesting that no disease should be mitigated unless it rises to the levels of small pox death rates, well I simply don't agree. He also ignores that many many mistakes were made during the Small Pox vaccine era which might have saved thousands more lives.

Well one thing we agree on is vaccines are a blessing. Where we don’t agree is getting behind one based on the politics of it. Do some reading on the polio vaccine and how long that took and how hesitant Salk was to declare it ready for mass distribution and application because he knew it wasn’t something that could be done quickly despite his desire to have it ready. I understand medicine has advanced a lot since then. But to have something rolled out in weeks and then have people talking about demanding proof that you’ve had it seems ill advised at best and stupid and politically motivated at worst not to mention draconian. I can’t speak for everyone not wanting this thing but for me it’s been rushed like nothing every before and the arm twisting by the government about it makes me suspicious. That’s never happened before either. Why? Is this administration just the smartest in history? Hardly.

Again, we'll just have to disagree over the term "rushed". The development of this vaccine was able to happen faster for several reasons, NONE of which were skipping over important scientific steps. We can agree that the vaccine distribution has been politicized, but that started pre-Biden, so let's not lay this at his administration's feet. Remember, Trump wants all the credit for the speed of getting the vaccine ready, but also doesn't think you should get it, but he also got it, got it?

[boyyourself]

maybe you should use this board to talk about other bands and music

New rule/suggestion:

For every 5 posts in the covid and/or politics threads, you got to post at least once in the listening thread

Shellfish gives me gout but since its flying from the mollusk mouth, I will give it a shot.

"Gotta kiss a lot of clam to find a pearl"
The Living Bubba

[Cole Younger]

Well, "Fauci is the world's greatest supervillain" narrative aside (which I still don't get, but whatever), I would say that small pox should not be standard by which we create/implement public health policy. If he is suggesting that no disease should be mitigated unless it rises to the levels of small pox death rates, well I simply don't agree. He also ignores that many many mistakes were made during the Small Pox vaccine era which might have saved thousands more lives.

Well one thing we agree on is vaccines are a blessing. Where we don’t agree is getting behind one based on the politics of it. Do some reading on the polio vaccine and how long that took and how hesitant Salk was to declare it ready for mass distribution and application because he knew it wasn’t something that could be done quickly despite his desire to have it ready. I understand medicine has advanced a lot since then. But to have something rolled out in weeks and then have people talking about demanding proof that you’ve had it seems ill advised at best and stupid and politically motivated at worst not to mention draconian. I can’t speak for everyone not wanting this thing but for me it’s been rushed like nothing every before and the arm twisting by the government about it makes me suspicious. That’s never happened before either. Why? Is this administration just the smartest in history? Hardly.

Again, we'll just have to disagree over the term "rushed". The development of this vaccine was able to happen faster for several reasons, NONE of which were skipping over important scientific steps. We can agree that the vaccine distribution has been politicized, but that started pre-Biden, so let's not lay this at his administration's feet. Remember, Trump wants all the credit for the speed of getting the vaccine ready, but also doesn't think you should get it, but he also got it, got it?

The difference between me and some people is that my thoughts on this have not changed with the politics. I did t want it when Trumpy Bear was pushing it and I still don’t. Democrats were dead against it then and are all for it now. A lot of republicans were for it then and against it now.

[boyyourself]

Well, "Fauci is the world's greatest supervillain" narrative aside (which I still don't get, but whatever), I would say that small pox should not be standard by which we create/implement public health policy. If he is suggesting that no disease should be mitigated unless it rises to the levels of small pox death rates, well I simply don't agree. He also ignores that many many mistakes were made during the Small Pox vaccine era which might have saved thousands more lives.

Well one thing we agree on is vaccines are a blessing. Where we don’t agree is getting behind one based on the politics of it. Do some reading on the polio vaccine and how long that took and how hesitant Salk was to declare it ready for mass distribution and application because he knew it wasn’t something that could be done quickly despite his desire to have it ready. I understand medicine has advanced a lot since then. But to have something rolled out in weeks and then have people talking about demanding proof that you’ve had it seems ill advised at best and stupid and politically motivated at worst not to mention draconian. I can’t speak for everyone not wanting this thing but for me it’s been rushed like nothing every before and the arm twisting by the government about it makes me suspicious. That’s never happened before either. Why? Is this administration just the smartest in history? Hardly.

Again, we'll just have to disagree over the term "rushed". The development of this vaccine was able to happen faster for several reasons, NONE of which were skipping over important scientific steps. We can agree that the vaccine distribution has been politicized, but that started pre-Biden, so let's not lay this at his administration's feet. Remember, Trump wants all the credit for the speed of getting the vaccine ready, but also doesn't think you should get it, but he also got it, got it?

Got it. And what started pre trump (remember that?)
How bout babies in cages? And what are we supposed to call them now? Migrant detention facilities? Not sure that fits the meter. They want to control the narrative and the language, and say wtf they want....oh but dont go by their words remember? Its what they meant that counts. Got it?

"Historys an etch o sketch. Facts and figures are dominoes."

[beantownbubba]

CY, reading your most recent posts on top of what I've been reading for a while it is finally clear to me that what separates us (you can read that as you and me or more widely) is our different perceptions of how serious a threat this virus is. Do I have any basis to make an independent judgment on how serious the virus is? No, I don't. LIke most people I get my information from a variety of secondary sources. Could they all be wrong or wrong to a significant extent? I suppose so but obviously I don't think so. I think you're in the same position but have reached the opposite conclusion. I have no idea how that gap can be bridged or even if it can. But it seems to me that's the nub of the thing. All the other stuff that has come up over the months (and now years!) is either minor, tangential, or we agree more than might first be apparent. But this is a big one.

[Zip City]

[Cole Younger]

CY, reading your most recent posts on top of what I've been reading for a while it is finally clear to me that what separates us (you can read that as you and me or more widely) is our different perceptions of how serious a threat this virus is. Do I have any basis to make an independent judgment on how serious the virus is? No, I don't. LIke most people I get my information from a variety of secondary sources. Could they all be wrong or wrong to a significant extent? I suppose so but obviously I don't think so. I think you're in the same position but have reached the opposite conclusion. I have no idea how that gap can be bridged or even if it can. But it seems to me that's the nub of the thing. All the other stuff that has come up over the months (and now years!) is either minor, tangential, or we agree more than might first be apparent. But this is a big one.

Yeah I think you nailed it.

[Cole Younger]

Making a caricature of people who don’t agree with you might be fun and feel like owning the cons but it’s not particularly persuasive of helpful whether it’s you or me doing it.

[Zip City]

Though that letter had a fair share of snark, I think it makes a decent enough point about where "personal freedom" around public health blurs into other people's lives

[Cole Younger]

Though that letter had a fair share of snark, I think it makes a decent enough point about where "personal freedom" around public health blurs into other people's lives

Not really. This is part of the problem. We want context only when it suits us. The people who love to say “Well you might have freedom of speech but there limits. You can’t yell ‘Fire!’ in a crowded theatre.” The problem is that applies to that particular instance and not all free speech cases across the board but they are using it as an example as it it does. The same thing is done with seemingly every argument about personal freedom. An argument is made in favor of its limits that applies very specifically to a particular instance and not broadly. This is somethings done by people who don’t know any better and it is sometimes done by people on purpose because they think the other person doesn’t know any better and will fall for it.

[boyyourself]

Though that letter had a fair share of snark, I think it makes a decent enough point about where "personal freedom" around public health blurs into other people's lives

Not all people. Despite our local munipality and med center and schools ways, the people here have completely moved on. Take my day yesterday here in Telluride......
Got a call yesterday to help with search and rescue, have not been to a meeting in 2 years. Not been on a mission since Covid. Busy with other things.
Had to heed this call.
I had no clue how things were going to be when I showed up as far as covid stuff. 20 or so wilderness first responders. Not at liberty to say what "safety" protocols were in place, but ill say i was presently surprised.
And havent really seen quite a few of those folk since we all were the first people in the world to be experimented on and have are info extracted, errrrrrrr get tested for covid.
And there were hugs all around. So aweome. Hugging. Not distancing.

Then last night went to a show in town. A cute little porch. Outdoors. Pretty jam packed for a fine set of music from local musicians. Not one single person wearing a mask.
After the show, i shook two of the band members hands. Im not a hand shake bully they are friends of mine and it was mutual. The stand up bass player, who i had seen in the record store earlier and gave him a copy of the plan 9 cd because knew hes a fan. Seen him cover dbt a bunch,
Thanked me for the record and gave me a big hug.
So not all musicisns and scenes are alike. Imagine that.
Quite different than the story of that one band saying aint no way to be safe in a crowd. Thankfully theys a lot of dangerous people here willing to affectionately mingle with other dangerous members of the community, unsafe? Still one death in our county, so, whats safe for you is whats safe for you. More proof that individuals should be in charge of themselvez,

[beantownbubba]

Report from the front, or at least the side: Last time I was at the town library about 2 wks ago I'd guesstimate that other than staff less than between 10% and 20% of those present were wearing masks. As I sit in the library today, that number is way over half, maybe over 80% (of which I am not one if you're counting). Just an observation, I don't know that it says or proves anything about anything. I am surprised though and wondering what they might know that I don't.

[beantownbubba]

Report from the front, or at least the side: Last time I was at the town library about 2 wks ago I'd guesstimate that other than staff less than between 10% and 20% of those present were wearing masks. As I sit in the library today, that number is way over half, maybe over 80% (of which I am not one if you're counting). Just an observation, I don't know that it says or proves anything about anything. I am surprised though and wondering what they might know that I don't.

Aha! Occam's razor raises its sharp blade: I came in through the side door, but at the front entrance there's a pretty big sign saying please wear a mask. LOL.

[dime in the gutter]

here in louisiana, indoor mask mandates went back into effect on 8/1. decreed by our governor.

enter any public building or business open to the public....mask up.

i think we eased restrictions to non-mask back in april.

[boyyourself]

Saying Fauci created and/or is responsible for any variant of COVID is unproven, wildly disingenuous conspiracy theory stuff.

I’m not so sure. Maybe. But I’m not so sure. So what about the rest of it as far as contesting the reaction to small pocks and this? Is he wrong?

Well, "Fauci is the world's greatest supervillain" narrative aside (which I still don't get, but whatever), I would say that small pox should not be standard by which we create/implement public health policy. If he is suggesting that no disease should be mitigated unless it rises to the levels of small pox death rates, well I simply don't agree. He also ignores that many many mistakes were made during the Small Pox vaccine era which might have saved thousands more lives.




Maybe its that my heart isnt big enough to have compassion for guys like michael vick and Pfauci.
Vick wasnt apologizing to nobody til he got caught. Said the right things, cuz thats what counts. Pfauci doing work on animals, pushing for humanity to separate, literally, flip flopping around for 40 years while being protected under all sorts of made up umbrellas. All for our safety.

Worlds greatest super villain is your words. How bout bad dudes that smile for cameras and love tv time. Both pretty boys too. I wouldnt let either one of them near my pigs. Yes thats my measure of a man. Do i trust you around my pigs. They are unvaxxed and stress free and outdoors their whole life, aint nobody gonna pump them full of meds or expirement on them to see what happens. And i dare mikey to try to choke one out from behind, it would not go well.
Pure love and respect til the end. Thats life. It ends. And when treated with love and respect outdoors and stress free, the meat is delicious and is regenerative to those fortunate enough taste. Meanwhile dog fighting and animal expiriments still happen. Entertainment culture is sickly and destructive and sucks up national resources, not so coincedentally, so are confinement animal facilities, animal expiriment labs, and seemingly virus labs, labs for viruses. Whatevrr. Lot of gmo grain too just for these animals. Very natural. Very humane. Oh well we will consider the enviroronment and the animals and the kids and live music when pandemic is over. Jam shit up their collwctive asses in meantime

[LBRod]

https://reason.com/2021/08/06/ignore-pa ... rmal-life/

Once again, vaccination is widely available in the United States and the unvaccinated have chosen that status. They've made their own decisions and assumed the resulting dangers, just like people who smoke, eat too much, ride motorcycles, or go rock-climbing. In a free society, people have the right to make their own risk assessments, even if others don't approve, and the rest of us should get to live our lives without limiting ourselves because of the decisions made by others.

[Zip City]

https://reason.com/2021/08/06/ignore-pa ... rmal-life/

Once again, vaccination is widely available in the United States and the unvaccinated have chosen that status. They've made their own decisions and assumed the resulting dangers, just like people who smoke, eat too much, ride motorcycles, or go rock-climbing. In a free society, people have the right to make their own risk assessments, even if others don't approve, and the rest of us should get to live our lives without limiting ourselves because of the decisions made by others.

And, again, overeating or riding a bike without a helmet or rock climbing are not lifestyle choices that put other people at great risk. It's a bad comparison.

[LBRod]

https://reason.com/2021/08/06/ignore-pa ... rmal-life/

Once again, vaccination is widely available in the United States and the unvaccinated have chosen that status. They've made their own decisions and assumed the resulting dangers, just like people who smoke, eat too much, ride motorcycles, or go rock-climbing. In a free society, people have the right to make their own risk assessments, even if others don't approve, and the rest of us should get to live our lives without limiting ourselves because of the decisions made by others.

And, again, overeating or riding a bike without a helmet or rock climbing are not lifestyle choices that put other people at great risk. It's a bad comparison.

You have remarkably little faith in the vaccine you are pushing so hard.

[Zip City]

Not sure why you’re drawing that conclusion

[boyyourself]

https://reason.com/2021/08/06/ignore-pa ... rmal-life/

Once again, vaccination is widely available in the United States and the unvaccinated have chosen that status. They've made their own decisions and assumed the resulting dangers, just like people who smoke, eat too much, ride motorcycles, or go rock-climbing. In a free society, people have the right to make their own risk assessments, even if others don't approve, and the rest of us should get to live our lives without limiting ourselves because of the decisions made by others.

And, again, overeating or riding a bike without a helmet or rock climbing are not lifestyle choices that put other people at great risk. It's a bad comparison.

You have remarkably little faith in the vaccine you are pushing so hard.

Bingo. If this vax and masks are so effective then why do i need to use them in order to protect you?
Stay safe. Stay healthy. Whatever that means for you.
Thats my opinion.

[boyyourself]

https://reason.com/2021/08/06/ignore-pa ... rmal-life/

Once again, vaccination is widely available in the United States and the unvaccinated have chosen that status. They've made their own decisions and assumed the resulting dangers, just like people who smoke, eat too much, ride motorcycles, or go rock-climbing. In a free society, people have the right to make their own risk assessments, even if others don't approve, and the rest of us should get to live our lives without limiting ourselves because of the decisions made by others.

And, again, overeating or riding a bike without a helmet or rock climbing are not lifestyle choices that put other people at great risk. It's a bad comparison.

Ive been hearing soooooooo much about how we need to make sure nobody stresses out our medical workers.
Is that your take?

[Zip City]

https://reason.com/2021/08/06/ignore-pa ... rmal-life/

Once again, vaccination is widely available in the United States and the unvaccinated have chosen that status. They've made their own decisions and assumed the resulting dangers, just like people who smoke, eat too much, ride motorcycles, or go rock-climbing. In a free society, people have the right to make their own risk assessments, even if others don't approve, and the rest of us should get to live our lives without limiting ourselves because of the decisions made by others.

And, again, overeating or riding a bike without a helmet or rock climbing are not lifestyle choices that put other people at great risk. It's a bad comparison.

Ive been hearing soooooooo much about how we need to make sure nobody stresses out our medical workers.
Is that your take?

Stresses out? Are you fucking serious?

Rhetorical question, of course, because you're not.

[boyyourself]

And, again, overeating or riding a bike without a helmet or rock climbing are not lifestyle choices that put other people at great risk. It's a bad comparison.

Ive been hearing soooooooo much about how we need to make sure nobody stresses out our medical workers.
Is that your take?

Stresses out? Are you fucking serious?

Rhetorical question, of course, because you're not.

Ok guy. I asked you a question and it bunched your panties. Yes. Serious question. Too much?
I am actually a front line medical professional by way of wilderness first responder. Well seasoned at attending to and extracting injured people out of the san juan mountains anytime in any weather year round. So i kmow nothing about the medical profession or how to be and or keep people safe and i dont know what its like to be stressed based on someone elses accident or self inflicted disaster?
LOL. Oh Aaaaaaand you accuse me of being comfortable enough to develop "views" on these things from MY bubble.
Classic, come spend a day in my shoes. Open invite, beware its no college campus out here you serious person you.

[boyyourself]

https://reason.com/2021/08/06/ignore-pa ... rmal-life/

Once again, vaccination is widely available in the United States and the unvaccinated have chosen that status. They've made their own decisions and assumed the resulting dangers, just like people who smoke, eat too much, ride motorcycles, or go rock-climbing. In a free society, people have the right to make their own risk assessments, even if others don't approve, and the rest of us should get to live our lives without limiting ourselves because of the decisions made by others.

I am so elated at how our little bubble of a mountain town is "handling" all this. No business, not even grocery stores or restaraunts are even attempting mask masdates, let alone vax passes, and almost no patrons are rocking masks.
Theres such a great vibe in the air in town, as if everone is so glad to be moving on. Nobody really brings it up. No mentions. People hugging and shaking hands.
Maybe its been going on for awhile but im just noticing, went to eat at new place in town tonight. So fun. Amazing food. Sat at the bar, caught up with bartender i havent seen in 2 years. Made new friends. Went to pay the tab and they said its on us and thanks for coming. alright alright

[boyyourself]

https://reason.com/2021/08/06/ignore-pa ... rmal-life/

Once again, vaccination is widely available in the United States and the unvaccinated have chosen that status. They've made their own decisions and assumed the resulting dangers, just like people who smoke, eat too much, ride motorcycles, or go rock-climbing. In a free society, people have the right to make their own risk assessments, even if others don't approve, and the rest of us should get to live our lives without limiting ourselves because of the decisions made by others.

I am so elated at how our little bubble of a mountain town is "handling" all this. No business, not even grocery stores or restaraunts are even attempting mask masdates, let alone vax passes, and almost no patrons are rocking masks.
Theres such a great vibe in the air in town, as if everone is so glad to be moving on. Nobody really brings it up. No mentions. People hugging and shaking hands.
Maybe its been going on for awhile but im just noticing, went to eat at new place in town tonight. So fun. Amazing food. Sat at the bar, caught up with bartender i havent seen in 2 years. Made new friends. Went to pay the tab and they said its on us and thanks for coming. alright alright

[boyyourself]

https://youtu.be/tiwsv51Il4k

[boyyourself]

https://youtu.be/tiwsv51Il4k

"Try finding that story anywhere" sums it up.