Coronavirus - COVID-19

[boyyourself]

I am attempting to understand the decision to not get vaccinated, having abandoned any thought/hope that posting medical data and research might provide some context or sway intentions. In my world, false positives/false negatives (Type 1/Type II Errors) often describe the merit of a finding, or the risk of accepting results (e.g., False Positive: a person passes a driving test when they should not be on the road, versus a False Negative: A person is told they cannot drive when they are capable of being on the road)

I tried to explain vaccinations using this rubric. Please tell me what I got wrong or what I am missing

Type I Error (False Positive): I got the vaccine but didn't need it
Pros:

1. I decreased my likelihood of getting COVID
2. I decreased my likelihood of transmitting COVID to others who are not vax'd, including kids under the age of 12
3. Were I to get COVID, I decreased the likelihood of serious illness, hospitalization, and death
4. I decreased the likelihood of significantly taxing the health care industry
   1. More ER/ICU beds available
   2. Fewer COVID cases so people able to get treatment for other emergencies
   3. Fewer COVID cases so people able to get elective surgeries

Cons:

1. I allowed a vaccine into my body, and it might have negative consequences down the road
2. I allowed the government to control me

Type II Error: I didn't get the vaccine but needed it
Cons:

1. I got COVID, and
   1. Transmitted it to other people who were not vax'd, including kids under the age of 12
   2. My symptoms were worse than they would be were I vax'd
   3. I needed to go to the ER/needed treatment in the ICU
   4. I died

Pros:

1. I didn't allow a vaccine into my body
2. The government didn't control me

Why should a healthy person who had covid get vaxxed?
Or why should I get vaxxed? Genuinely curious why you think......

[Zip City]

[boyyourself]

Union Transfer is a mid-sized rock venue in Philly. It's where the Truckers have played their last 2 or 3 shows in Philly. I've got tickets to see Japanese Breakfast there on Friday night, their first of 5 (count em, 5!) sold out shows at the venue. It's gonna be a grand reopening of sorts - Union Transfer's first shows in 18 months since the pandemic. I got an email from UT today announcing that, per the band's request, you need to show proof of vaxx or a negative covid test within 48 hours of the show in order to enter the venue. No proof, no entry. Also they are "requesting" that all attendees be masked for the show, except when eating or drinking. Seems like lots of employers, businesses, restaurants, venues, etc are heading in this direction. Anti-vaxxers are starting to get squeezed out.

Here's the email in full:

Hello! We are excited to welcome everyone back for our very first shows in seventeen months! We wanted to pass along this update for all ticket holders for the upcoming Japanese Breakfast shows on August 6 – 7 – 8 - 10 and 11.

The band has requested that all attendees for the remainder of their tour be vaccinated OR have tested negative for Covid in the 48 hours prior to attending a show.
If you are vaccinated, we ask that you please bring your vaccination card, a copy of your vaccination card, or have a legible photo of your vaccination card on your phone.

If you are unvaccinated, please bring a printed or digital copy of your recent negative Covid–19 test results (48 hrs from the date of the show).

If you cannot furnish proof of either a vaccine or negative test, we will refund your tickets in full, BUT, unfortunately, you will not be permitted inside the venue.

Additionally, we at Union Transfer will be asking all patrons, along with all staff, to please wear a mask inside for the duration of the show, except when eating or drinking.

As mentioned above these our very first shows back. This, in all likelihood, will be a constantly evolving process as we progress and learn throughout our summer/fall calendar. We kindly ask for your patience as we navigate these new and often changing waters. After this week we will examine and adjust what has worked / not worked. Our goal is to do our best in keeping things relatively safe for everyone while making sure it's still a fun night for all.

We value your feedback and will send all ticket holders an anonymous survey which they can complete at the end of the night. In the meantime, please feel free to reach out to info@utphilly.com with any questions, ideas, thoughts or concerns and we will get back to you as quickly as possible.

xo, UT

At one point in my life I would've perceived all of this as me being "sqeezed out. I spent a lot of years being fortunate enough to see well over a hundred dbt shows I. The last 18 years. In at least ten states and three countries. A total of 28 hours of driving for rain canceled shows alone counting salt lake. I'm tired after all of that. Plus traveling wears my ass out anymore. So I don't feel sqeezed out at all.
Plus most of my friends and family in Colorado and Texas wouldn't feel put out either. Their lives revolve around the outdoors. . Farming. Ranching. Construction. Biking hiking climbing rafting fishing hunting etc. These people are averse to cities anyways. Going there is a novelty, spend a couple days being gluttonous and shopping then gtf out if there. Taking all that away is no skin off there backs.
My entire big ass family all had covid, and only one uncle of mine us getting vaxxdd and he's perplexed at why the rest of the family is not-------hes been the only one getting hammered too. Waaaaay more so than his 92 year old mom. Well uncle Rex, love you, youre awesome, and the fact that you've been sitting on your ass selling insurance for the last 40 years is fine. Swilling Wine non stop is fine. Never exercising is fine, I really don't care, it's your life...........hes so overweight and inactive hes barely been able to breath for the last ten years. Always coughing and wheezing. And he got his ass kicked by covid,,,,,,,,,,,,coincidence? Hell no.
It's perplexing to me that people don't take care of themselves then wonder why they get sick. Then also tries to get everyone else to get vaxxed even though they already all had covid? We all feel bad for him but chuckle at him trying to get us to all live like him. And that all seems like a microcosm to the rest of the world in my opinion.
Sorry not sorry for bringing up lifestyle, but imo it's important. Some have lifestylez related to health and wellness related to the outdoors. Some have sedentary lifestyles that revolve around eating and or being entertained, to me those people have sqeezed themselves out of the freedom that comes from being healthy enough to be able to enjoy yourself without someone else entertaining you. Am I being judgemental? Yes but on me too. I wouldn't stop drinking beer even after I got gout so bad I could hardly move and it's depressing. Meds didn't work because I kept drinking. What a fucking dumbass.
Do I blame the docs for not ever mentioning diet and lifestyle to curb illness? No. I don't blame any of my drug dealers for anything. and I'd rather be in charge of my own health and safety and be the one to determine what that means for me. Personal responsibility and what not.

[LBRod]

Type II Error: I didn't get the vaccine but needed it
Cons:

1. I got COVID, and
   1. Transmitted it to other people who were not vax'd, including kids under the age of 12
   2. My symptoms were worse than they would be were I vax'd
   3. I needed to go to the ER/needed treatment in the ICU
   4. I died

That is a big but my friend.
And you forgot none of the above, which is true for the vast majority of those who contract the virus.
Many of them never know they have it.

[boyyourself]

Ah yes. The fduh. You mean that organization that approves mountain dew but considers raw milk poison?
The same orginization also approved feeding dead cattle to other cattle, which led to mad cow disease? (Well to be fair in the mid 80s the science wasnt clear on what would happen if you force fed meat to ruminant bovine herbivores.
Bovine knieval indeed.)
Not to mention all pharmacyeticals that get approved. Soda and pills? How does that formula work for bulletproofing ones immune sysrem? Better than milking your own cow right into your coffee to go w your bacon? Bacon, which according to fduh or the usduh, whoever determines serving size, is one piece per serving........ still going with low fat propagsnda bought and paid for by the sugar industry. Thats a fact. I believe they cut a 50,000 check that spawned the original food pryamid. Carbs on the bottom baby. 28 grams of sugar in that mountain dew is a serving size too. Whats happened to obesity rates because of that since then? Type2? Heart disease? Coincedence?

Those guys?

[John A Arkansawyer]

I keep posting from Josh Marshall because he is a good example of how to be skeptical without letting your brains dribble out your ears:

What On Earth Is Going On Here?

He goes through reported data, finds it very confusing, and makes some educated guesses.

Follow Up on Breakthrough Infections and Outcomes

Then he stays on it. He doesn't call names, throw fits, or shit his pants and wave them like a bloody shirt. He keeps looking and thinking.

[tinnitus photography]

I keep posting from Josh Marshall because he is a good example of how to be skeptical without letting your brains dribble out your ears:

What On Earth Is Going On Here?

He goes through reported data, finds it very confusing, and makes some educated guesses.

Follow Up on Breakthrough Infections and Outcomes

Then he stays on it. He doesn't call names, throw fits, or shit his pants and wave them like a bloody shirt. He keeps looking and thinking.

What you really want is total number of cases, hospitalizations or deaths broken down by vaccination status. That tells you something concrete about vaccine efficacy. It’s not perfect since the testing isn’t random surveillance testing but in response to exposure or illness. But it still gives you some concrete information. My hunting suggests that very few states are publishing anything like that.

spot on. when the situation changes (vax status, new variant) you have to change your account methods along with it; the previous data is no longer relevant.

[tinnitus photography]

so what should this 'scared person' do, find another line of work? divorce his wife? seems like that's the recommendation from the anti-vax contingent.

I’m in a full time cover band that plays weddings, events, and busy tourist spots in the northeast. Starting 3/7/2019 we were suddenly unemployed. Good news; we made it though. Mid-May 2021 bookings went from zero to 100 and I have been playing to hundreds of people a night (in very close quarters), 3 or 4 nights a week, within about a 300 mile radius. And we, and everyone at the gig…staff, audience…all go home, wherever that is.

I still mask indoors, but at venues we play there’s no chance of staying safe. You’re constantly near someone.

And I come home to my (vaxxed) immunocompromised (cancer, stage 4) wife every Monday with around four states worth of dirt on me and everything I carry, worrying that this might be the time I got accidentally spit on by the wrong person at the bar. Ultimately to fire up Facebook and see another braying moron standing up for “their freedom”, still somehow completely ignorant to the irrefutable fact that This. Fucking Isn’t. Only. About. You.

[boyyourself]

so what should this 'scared person' do, find another line of work? divorce his wife? seems like that's the recommendation from the anti-vax contingent.

I’m in a full time cover band that plays weddings, events, and busy tourist spots in the northeast. Starting 3/7/2019 we were suddenly unemployed. Good news; we made it though. Mid-May 2021 bookings went from zero to 100 and I have been playing to hundreds of people a night (in very close quarters), 3 or 4 nights a week, within about a 300 mile radius. And we, and everyone at the gig…staff, audience…all go home, wherever that is.

I still mask indoors, but at venues we play there’s no chance of staying safe. You’re constantly near someone.

And I come home to my (vaxxed) immunocompromised (cancer, stage 4) wife every Monday with around four states worth of dirt on me and everything I carry, worrying that this might be the time I got accidentally spit on by the wrong person at the bar. Ultimately to fire up Facebook and see another braying moron standing up for “their freedom”, still somehow completely ignorant to the irrefutable fact that This. Fucking Isn’t. Only. About. You.

Oh so a struggling musician is teling me that theres no way to be safe in a crowd? Ohhhh. Now im convinced. Finally someone is parroting 40 years of Pfauci quite literally, no hyperbole, divisive.
Hey im just glad that someone is mentioning the plight of musicisns. Thats a first.
Facebook? Reaaaal original. What, fox news didnt want any of that?

[phungi]

Why should a healthy person who had covid get vaxxed?
Or why should I get vaxxed? Genuinely curious why you think......

I will take a crack at this, albeit, it may amount to pissing in the wind.

First off, getting COVID creates anti-bodies, which are different from the antibodies created from the vaccine. Unlike a flu vaccine, the COVID vaccine does not introduce a small amount of the target virus and then allow the immune system to identify it, react, and build up antibodies. Rather, the COVID vaccine introduces a protein that is unique to the cell structure of the COVID virus molecule, and an agent that destroys that protein. The immune system remembers this and stores it as a genetic code/variation. When the actual virus enters the body, the immune system kills the protein (and thus the COVID virus cells) with a very high level of precision. So, the protective antibodies generated in response to a COVID vaccine will target a broader range of COVID variants than those generated in response to a person getting COVID and developing antibodies, because the vax targets/destroys the actual cell membrane of any form of COVID (and it appears to apply to variants) whereas COVID antibodies only help fight that specific virus. Oh, and the change in the genetic code from the vaccine lasts way longer than your immune response, which diminishes significantly as the time from infection increases (so you may no longer have antibodies).

This also has implications for variants (there were 18 previous SARS-CoV-2 variations, and this is #19... it is mutating, and will one day form a new SARS-CoV-2 variation that is so unique it is COVID-20). When a virus is widely circulating/spreading in a population, causing outbreaks and infections, the likelihood of the virus mutating increases. Vaccination decreases spread, outbreaks, and mutations, thereby decreasing the life cycle of the virus. Without your measles/mumps/rubella vax, you would be dead... without the polio vax, polio would still be around. The bubonic plague wiped out nearly 2/3rds of the population of Europe in the 1300's and it would have been stopped by a a vaccine.

So, in response to "why get a vaccine when you are healthy and/or already had COVID":

1. It will protect you from severe symptoms, illness, hospitalization, and death, way better than having only naturally-developed antibodies
2. It will protect others from spreading the virus, especially those who are not able to be/get vaccinated
3. It will stop the spread of the virus by decreasing outbreaks and variants
4. It is one small thing you can do to help decrease the burden on the health care system and workers who have to treat everyone needing medical attention, and not only the folks who are equally stubborn and choose not to do the one thing they can to prevent them from getting COVID when they do get COVID and end up in the health care system and suddenly realize they should have gotten vaccinated but it is too late
5. It may prevent this thread from being an ironic post-mortem commentary on one anti-vaxer which, after his death, went... wait for it... viral

Type II Error: I didn't get the vaccine but needed it
Cons:

1. I got COVID, and
   1. Transmitted it to other people who were not vax'd, including kids under the age of 12
   2. My symptoms were worse than they would be were I vax'd
   3. I needed to go to the ER/needed treatment in the ICU
   4. I died

That is a big but my friend.
And you forgot none of the above, which is true for the vast majority of those who contract the virus.
Many of them never know they have it.

I like big buts, and I cannot lie... ("a" says "transmitted to others", including variants, so see above)

[Zip City]

It must be very comforting going through life thinking everyone but yourself is wrong

[boyyourself]

Why should a healthy person who had covid get vaxxed?
Or why should I get vaxxed? Genuinely curious why you think......

I will take a crack at this, albeit, it may amount to pissing in the wind.

First off, getting COVID creates anti-bodies, which are different from the antibodies created from the vaccine. Unlike a flu vaccine, the COVID vaccine does not introduce a small amount of the target virus and then allow the immune system to identify it, react, and build up antibodies. Rather, the COVID vaccine introduces a protein that is unique to the cell structure of the COVID virus molecule, and an agent that destroys that protein. The immune system remembers this and stores it as a genetic code/variation. When the actual virus enters the body, the immune system kills the protein (and thus the COVID virus cells) with a very high level of precision. So, the protective antibodies generated in response to a COVID vaccine will target a broader range of COVID variants than those generated in response to a person getting COVID and developing antibodies, because the vax targets/destroys the actual cell membrane of any form of COVID (and it appears to apply to variants) whereas COVID antibodies only help fight that specific virus. Oh, and the change in the genetic code from the vaccine lasts way longer than your immune response, which diminishes significantly as the time from infection increases (so you may no longer have antibodies).

This also has implications for variants (there were 18 previous SARS-CoV-2 variations, and this is #19... it is mutating, and will one day form a new SARS-CoV-2 variation that is so unique it is COVID-20). When a virus is widely circulating/spreading in a population, causing outbreaks and infections, the likelihood of the virus mutating increases. Vaccination decreases spread, outbreaks, and mutations, thereby decreasing the life cycle of the virus. Without your measles/mumps/rubella vax, you would be dead... without the polio vax, polio would still be around. The bubonic plague wiped out nearly 2/3rds of the population of Europe in the 1300's and it would have been stopped by a a vaccine.

So, in response to "why get a vaccine when you are healthy and/or already had COVID":

1. It will protect you from severe symptoms, illness, hospitalization, and death, way better than having only naturally-developed antibodies
2. It will protect others from spreading the virus, especially those who are not able to be/get vaccinated
3. It will stop the spread of the virus by decreasing outbreaks and variants
4. It is one small thing you can do to help decrease the burden on the health care system and workers who have to treat everyone needing medical attention, and not only the folks who are equally stubborn and choose not to do the one thing they can to prevent them from getting COVID when they do get COVID and end up in the health care system and suddenly realize they should have gotten vaccinated but it is too late
5. It may prevent this thread from being an ironic post-mortem commentary on one anti-vaxer which, after his death, went... wait for it... viral

Type II Error: I didn't get the vaccine but needed it
Cons:

1. I got COVID, and
   1. Transmitted it to other people who were not vax'd, including kids under the age of 12
   2. My symptoms were worse than they would be were I vax'd
   3. I needed to go to the ER/needed treatment in the ICU
   4. I died

That is a big but my friend.
And you forgot none of the above, which is true for the vast majority of those who contract the virus.
Many of them never know they have it.

I like big buts, and I cannot lie... ("a" says "transmitted to others", including variants, so see above)

I dont consider that pissing in the wind, and i apprecuate your opinions.
I just dont agree that getting vaxxed for this is sn immune booster. And now, with other new variants popping up, its never ending. And youre left with perpetual booster shots and shaking your fist at those who dont vax..... forever.
Plus vaxxed people still transmit.
And you dont make any mention of how one can have a strong immune system or how millions are asymptomatic, or why. You keep mentioning well being and how to achieve it through medicine, but zero mention of how to naturally boost your immune system.
So youre left with calling me a murderer for not protecting the high risk population. Im not buying that. Sorry. Im not buying the altruism that allegedly magicly appears for just masking and vaxxing. Thats very convenient to those who wouldnt piss on you if you were on fire but are suddenly virtuos creatures.

[boyyourself]

It must be very comforting going through life thinking everyone but yourself is wrong

I know right. Your so comfortable, what with central air and heat, indoor plumbing, that college campus with green grass. A podium, now theres sonething a can get behind, to tell your bright eyed college students how right you are about everything, because university atmospheres are so open minded.

You post on here with such certainty. In a chaotic, uncertain universe, zip fucking city is the king of certainty and facts. Its a wonder that not everone agrees with you.

[John A Arkansawyer]

your opinions

[phungi]

I dont consider that pissing in the wind, and i apprecuate your opinions.
I just dont agree that getting vaxxed for this is sn immune booster. And now, with other new variants popping up, its never ending. And youre left with perpetual booster shots and shaking your fist at those who dont vax..... forever.
Plus vaxxed people still transmit.
And you dont make any mention of how one can have a strong immune system or how millions are asymptomatic, or why. You keep mentioning well being and how to achieve it through medicine, but zero mention of how to naturally boost your immune system.
So youre left with calling me a murderer for not protecting the high risk population. Im not buying that. Sorry. Im not buying the altruism that allegedly magicly appears for just masking and vaxxing. Thats very convenient to those who wouldnt piss on you if you were on fire but are suddenly virtuos creatures.

I cannot respond to straw arguments or fallacies that have no scientific basis or truth.. it isn't an issue of "agreement", and vaccines are not merely "immune boosters"

Show me the scientific evidence that one can boost their immune system against a fast-spreading, airborne, contagion... this is a virus, and it is a deadly one that will continue to mutate with implications for everyone, not only the "high risk" population ... you have no protection, only a sense of one, but you can clearly do whatever you want... you asked me a question and I answered it.

Notice that I never mentioned masking, but you seem to have a pattern of spewing nonsensical rhetoric that helps you justify whatever decision you appear to be entrenched defending... at this point I can only hope you are some undercover reporter doing a long-con exposé on thread shitting in a closed forum, and this will all come out in some front page Sunday newspaper article...

[John A Arkansawyer]

at this point I can only hope you are some undercover reporter doing a long-con exposé on thread shitting in a closed forum, and this will all come out in some front page Sunday newspaper article...

When I cut my dreadlocks back in '86, one factor was that I'd started meeting a fair number of other white guys with them. They, unlike white women with dreads, unlike black people with dreads*, tended to stink. Not smell--I smelled some of the time myself--but stink, stank, stunk, like a skunk.

So I'm just hoping this is a generous effort to get Cole vaxxed the same way the world got me to cut my dreads. It's the most positive view I've got on it.

*I met one exception to this in the five years I wore mine. He was a homeless dude and he really did smell bad.

[boyyourself]

I keep posting from Josh Marshall because he is a good example of how to be skeptical without letting your brains dribble out your ears:

What On Earth Is Going On Here?

He goes through reported data, finds it very confusing, and makes some educated guesses.

Follow Up on Breakthrough Infections and Outcomes

Then he stays on it. He doesn't call names, throw fits, or shit his pants and wave them like a bloody shirt. He keeps looking and thinking.

What you really want is total number of cases, hospitalizations or deaths broken down by vaccination status. That tells you something concrete about vaccine efficacy. It’s not perfect since the testing isn’t random surveillance testing but in response to exposure or illness. But it still gives you some concrete information. My hunting suggests that very few states are publishing anything like that.

spot on. when the situation changes (vax status, new variant) you have to change your account methods along with it; the previous data is no longer relevant.

In the meantime, say whatever you want, wether its true or not, because the science changes? Inventing new ways to skirt being responsible to anything that flies out of your mouth. Just in case science. My favorote.
But its good news for covid bros like yourself. Especially now that we are in the endless cycle of mutating viruses. A new clean slate eh?
So get vaxxed, then enter a perpetual cycle of boosters? Is there a diminishing margin of return on the effecacy of boosters? Dont worry bout that just get vaxxed and enter the endless cycle of boosters? Tell your kids that too eh? They fall under the same umbrella as your gramma right?
Very respectful to a child to not show them how to naturally have a strong immune system. Dont worry about junior eating mcdonalds and other shit everyday. Why? We got a mask and a vax to keep you safe son. Also you cant leave the house or socialize with other kids. K junior? Its for your safety. You trust mommy right? Plus the NIH director says kids should wear masks at home. Brilliant. Soon enough, when all the anti vaxxers are dead, we can come out of the house to find only people like meeeeeeeee!
Only then will we turn on the neighbors for not being liberal enough. Smart enough Altruistic enough etc. Etc
Im pretty sure some russian novelist could explain what happens when you try to create utopia. It doesnt work.

But you come on here and so proudly signal that youve done everuthing right about covid because you are such a righteous dude. Oh and you proudly did nothing after 9/11. Im sure you werent pissed about travel regulations after that because they were for your safety. Thank god you cant take a pocket knife on a plane eh? Murder on planes plummeted after that no? I have a knife now, im so tempted to use it on someone since im allowed to have it, and i can barely keep from walking into a nursing and sneezing on people, because i can. They should ban knives for everones safety. Mask mandates much? Just in case a piece of ocean litter might help. Just in csse.
Or maybe just stop blanketing everone with the same shit under the guys of safety. Who get to determine what is safe for everyone? You? Oh ok. Unfortunately your tactics perfectly mirror the leaders from your team. Diversity is just a sticker on your car. Meanwhile in thr drive through line youre on your phone wondering why not everyone thinks like you. Upper level virtue right there.

[Zip City]

It must be very comforting going through life thinking everyone but yourself is wrong

I know right. Your so comfortable, what with central air and heat, indoor plumbing, that college campus with green grass. A podium, now theres sonething a can get behind, to tell your bright eyed college students how right you are about everything, because university atmospheres are so open minded.

You post on here with such certainty. In a chaotic, uncertain universe, zip fucking city is the king of certainty and facts. Its a wonder that not everone agrees with you.

Not sure what my job (or air conditioning) has to do with anything here.

[tinnitus photography]

what makes you so sure that you know more about infectious disease that Fauci does? what are your credentials? or do credentials not matter in science? this inflated sense of superiority is hilarious.

[boyyourself]

I dont consider that pissing in the wind, and i apprecuate your opinions.
I just dont agree that getting vaxxed for this is sn immune booster. And now, with other new variants popping up, its never ending. And youre left with perpetual booster shots and shaking your fist at those who dont vax..... forever.
Plus vaxxed people still transmit.
And you dont make any mention of how one can have a strong immune system or how millions are asymptomatic, or why. You keep mentioning well being and how to achieve it through medicine, but zero mention of how to naturally boost your immune system.
So youre left with calling me a murderer for not protecting the high risk population. Im not buying that. Sorry. Im not buying the altruism that allegedly magicly appears for just masking and vaxxing. Thats very convenient to those who wouldnt piss on you if you were on fire but are suddenly virtuos creatures.

I cannot respond to straw arguments or fallacies that have no scientific basis or truth.. it isn't an issue of "agreement", and vaccines are not merely "immune boosters"

Show me the scientific evidence that one can boost their immune system against a fast-spreading, airborne, contagion... this is a virus, and it is a deadly one that will continue to mutate with implications for everyone, not only the "high risk" population ... you have no protection, only a sense of one, but you can clearly do whatever you want... you asked me a question and I answered it.

Notice that I never mentioned masking, but you seem to have a pattern of spewing nonsensical rhetoric that helps you justify whatever decision you appear to be entrenched defending... at this point I can only hope you are some undercover reporter doing a long-con exposé on thread shitting in a closed forum, and this will all come out in some front page Sunday newspaper

Theres about 2 million years of humanity that you can glean from regarding how to bulletoroof your immunity.
But thats straw man to you, and clearly you are the one to detrrmine a valid opinion or not. With your concrete stances.

Its only pc to talk preventative measures as they are based on medicine? I bring up masks because its allegedly a preventative measure. Same with vax and lockdowns. Got it. So again, you tell junior that the only path to physical well being is through medicine. I will show my kid how to be naturally healthy, and we will measure their overall health parameters in 50 years. Or did you want a quick fix for everyone? Lets duct tape the problem perpetually without ever addressing root causes?

Or are you also a person.that hates when someone disagrees with you because you are clearly correct? Its an internet forum. You want mic drop moment where we close down the thread because of some fact bomb you think you dropped that convinces everone to agree with you, and when i respectfully dont, its begause cleary what say is irrelavant garbage?

[tinnitus photography]

Especially now that we are in the endless cycle of mutating viruses. A new clean slate eh?

if only there was a vaccine that would have prevented those mutations...

[tinnitus photography]

In the meantime, say whatever you want, wether its true or not, because the science changes? Inventing new ways to skirt being responsible to anything that flies out of your mouth. Just in case science. My favorote.
But its good news for covid bros like yourself. Especially now that we are in the endless cycle of mutating viruses. A new clean slate eh?
So get vaxxed, then enter a perpetual cycle of boosters? Is there a diminishing margin of return on the effecacy of boosters? Dont worry bout that just get vaxxed and enter the endless cycle of boosters? Tell your kids that too eh? They fall under the same umbrella as your gramma right?
Very respectful to a child to not show them how to naturally have a strong immune system. Dont worry about junior eating mcdonalds and other shit everyday. Why? We got a mask and a vax to keep you safe son. Also you cant leave the house or socialize with other kids. K junior? Its for your safety. You trust mommy right? Plus the NIH director says kids should wear masks at home. Brilliant. Soon enough, when all the anti vaxxers are dead, we can come out of the house to find only people like meeeeeeeee!
Only then will we turn on the neighbors for not being liberal enough. Smart enough Altruistic enough etc. Etc
Im pretty sure some russian novelist could explain what happens when you try to create utopia. It doesnt work.

But you come on here and so proudly signal that youve done everuthing right about covid because you are such a righteous dude. Oh and you proudly did nothing after 9/11. Im sure you werent pissed about travel regulations after that because they were for your safety. Thank god you cant take a pocket knife on a plane eh? Murder on planes plummeted after that no? I have a knife now, im so tempted to use it on someone since im allowed to have it, and i can barely keep from walking into a nursing and sneezing on people, because i can. They should ban knives for everones safety. Mask mandates much? Just in case a piece of ocean litter might help. Just in csse.
Or maybe just stop blanketing everone with the same shit under the guys of safety. Who get to determine what is safe for everyone? You? Oh ok. Unfortunately your tactics perfectly mirror the leaders from your team. Diversity is just a sticker on your car. Meanwhile in thr drive through line youre on your phone wondering why not everyone thinks like you. Upper level virtue right there.

[boyyourself]

Patiently awaiting anyone start listing examples of sir Pfauci being right.

[Zip City]

Patiently awaiting anyone start listing examples of sir Pfauci being right.

You are an unserious person

[boyyourself]

Patiently awaiting anyone start listing examples of sir Pfauci being right.

Hey like sleepy joe, who literally said, dont take my word for it about facebook being murderers, just try and understand the sentiment of what i meant to say, which was something not stupid. Same w pfauci. His word is shit but hey, he's an expert. Clearly.
But lets do hold trump accountable for something he said that clearly caused the insurrection because words matter? Got it.
I wont worry about all the hypocritical bs that has been flying out of the face of the covid bros for a year and a half and just comply.

[John A Arkansawyer]

[boyyourself]

Oh yes a seattle band. Next your gonna use kurt cobain as an example of why upper crust northewesterners are much better than those living in reality in the flyover states.
You know the guy that was so cool that he made fun of his own audience...."here we are now..... entertain us!!!!!"
Exactly kurt. Those folks will do anything just to be entertained. Two years ago they were the "resistance" huh. Now they will seemingly comply to anything resembling science to "comply" in order do anything necessary to be entertained. Sounds like hard core religion to me. Fortunately i dont need to be entertained, dbt cancelling 2020 and salt lake was effected my life exactly zero. And if i never see another show itll be exactly zero skin off my back, and i will cosider it a lifestyle improvement, back to nature, until the laws of nature, which we keep trifling with, oh but lets not blame that, will eventually take me down and no one will be to blame because i surrender to the cycle of life, and the rythm of the masky river, it will remain, minus the choking fish.

Here we are now, entertain us.....has become the battle cry for the compliance. Brilliant. And godspeed to the orthodoxy of compliance.

And my battle cry will be trees and birds and pigs and chickens and kids and family and hugs.
Lets see whos singing in a hundred years. The agrerian type nature crowd or the Pfauci crowd?
Perhaps we never should have started storing grain to control the food supply and the people at once, any one read Ishmael? Not good. That let us bulid cities and stack on top of each other with all that stored up "food".
And now we have abundance that apparently couldnt provide. That led to cental heat and air, a petrie dish for respiraratory disease, wuhan lab didnt even have good ventilaion. Look it up. Aaaand now we are in a perpetual cycle of whack a mole. No worries, we'll create the cure, We made the disease.
So get that gmo grain and a jab and look down youre nose at those of us millions, outside in the woods and on the grass, convening with nature and other humans, controlling our own food and safety choices, with the understanding of cycle of life in which death is necessary for new life, and who understand that illness can be defined as a deviation from nature. Dont need a doctor or expert tp draw that concluision, we can go off about the last 2 million years of decisions. 2 million years of decicions maaaaaaaade.
Thats the divide it seems and battle lines have been drawn between the intellects and power freaks, and nature. Lets see whos standing and singing in a humdred years, the self reliant crowd, or the dependant crowd. If i am wrong ill have my ancestors apologize to yours and we live happily ever after on zoloft, gmo grain and vaccines, just like your boy Bill Gates going for.

[beantownbubba]

I know all those elite coastal cities are all the same but still, it isn’t often that Seattle is confused with New York City or that Sonic Youth is confused with grunge.

[Zip City]

I know all those elite coastal cities are all the same but still, it isn’t often that Seattle is confused with New York City or that Sonic Youth is confused with grunge.

Forget it, he's rollin'

[chuckrh]

I know all those elite coastal cities are all the same but still, it isn’t often that Seattle is confused with New York City or that Sonic Youth is confused with grunge.

True true. Thanks, bubba. I can't see what you are referring to as I have a few blocks going. Helps keep the blood pressure down. There's another site I post on with a few stridently backward folks who keep doubling down on their positions. It's probably hopeless unless they get the virus. I have a few friends who almost died from it. 1, the doctors told his wife (who is a nurse) that she should say her goodbyes & be prepared to raise their 2 toddlers by herself. Thankfully, he eventually pulled through after months in the hospital but the after effects will be with him the rest of his life. I've been lucky & haven't caught it but it has taken a lot of discipline. Even though I'm fully vaccinated, it wouldn't be pretty if I caught it with the other issues that have been going on. Thinking about my friend helps me not bitch too much about chemo.