Coronavirus - COVID-19

[Cole Younger]

Isn't it sad when cousins marry? Sadly, I can't take credit for that line, stolen from a Martin Mull comedy record in the 70s. Credit where credit is due. Appropriate to the discussion though.

That’s great psychology. Now call my momma some ugly names.

[Cole Younger]

People who haven’t gotten the vaccine haven’t done so because they are selfish, stupid, immoral, and inbred, is that about it? I might have missed a few. Egocentric and of a belief that their rights and personal choices are more important than what’s good for the whole despite not being well educated enough to even understand their rights.

Let’s do an exercise. Who here has served in our nation’s military? If you haven’t, why haven’t you? Were you too scared? So you were too chicken shit to do your patriotic duty as an American. You weren’t willing do your part in service to our country. Fear prevented you from doing your part. You should be ashamed for shirking you’re duty. Your country needed you. You weren’t willing to do your part because you were afraid. What about it, Cortez? Does your Cortez The Killer act not extend beyond the keyboard? Were you too afraid that once you got to Paris Isalnd or Fort Benning, or Great Lakes Illinois you would melt into a puddle of piss when faced with your drill instructors who couldn’t give a fuck about what a badass you think you are? Pussy. What about you, chuckrh? Your country could have used your help. You like to mean mouth and act hard on the internet. Did you serve your country? If not, why not? You too much of a little bitch to do your part?


Why else? If you never served your country why didn’t you? Was a few years of service too much time out of your life? That’s selfish. What’s the matter? Don’t you believe in serving a cause greater than yourself? We are all in this together. You don’t care about what is good for the whole? Nope. You care too much about your personal rights, life choices, and decisions about what is best for you so you said fuck everybody else because you didn’t want to serve. Let somebody else do it. You had other things you wanted to do. That’s selfish. That’s giving no thought to what’s good for the whole. You think service to your country is for somebody else. Let someone else do your part. To whom much is given, much is expected but I guess that doesn’t apply to you, huh? Your personal choices were more important than doing your part. Your individual rights were more important. You aren’t smart enough to understand that without people who aren’t selfish like you willing to serve in our military you have no rights. You aren’t smart enough to understand how your rights are preserved. You think the Democratic Party does it. Selfish jackasses.

Why else? Why didn’t you do your part in service to your country? Do you think you’re above it? What about it, Zip? Is the military just for dumb people who aren’t as intellectually game as you? For those dumb folks who believe in foolish antiquated notions like love of country? Those idiots who go to state fairs and eat fast food and don’t understand art? Is that about right? Little people. Folks who are beneath you. Guys like you are too smart to take time out of their lives and be a part of something bigger than themselves.

Why else? Is it because you think voting a certain way and for certain programs gets you off the hook? Is it because you are all about the idea of what’s good for the whole being above individual rights as long as you don’t have to actually do anything? As long as it doesn’t cost you anything personally you love the idea of us all being in this together and all being tied to one another but as soon as your country needs you and you might actually have to do something you look the other way. So in addition to being a coward, and selfish, and narcissistic, you’re also lazy.

I would hate to know these things about myself. I’d hate to know I’m too much of a pussy, too selfish, narcissistic, and lazy to answer my country’s call and leave my share of the load for someone else to shoulder. That would eat a hole in my gut.

But I don’t have that problem. I did my part. I’m not selfish. I’m don’t think I’m above it or that it’s somebody else’s problem. I’m not a lazy bastard. And I really am a bad motherfucker and not just a keyboard warrior. You pussies. You selfish leaches. You narcissist dick heads. You lazy fucks. You’re all take and no give. You take and take and the. Bitch and whine about wanting more but you never give of yourself. You lecture other people on what they should do but you’ve never actually done shit for your country because you’re lazy and think you’re above it. God that must suck to know that about yourself.

That was an exercise. Those are not my personal thoughts or beliefs. Whether or not a person serves in the military is personal and the reasons and motivations for choosing to or not are as varied as their are individual people. Do you see how arrogant, egocentric, and stupid that all sounded? That’s exactly how some of you sound. That’s a mirror image of the way you sound telling everybody how virtuous and smart and moral you are and how they are none of those things. Think about that for a while. Would you give me a second of serious consideration if I talked to you that way or would you ignore me and tell me to eat shit? You see where I’m going with that? Scolding people and telling them how selfish you think they are and how egocentric and stupid and inbred they are and inversely how you are the opposite of all those things and how they should be more like you isn’t a persuasive or valid argument.

[cortez the killer]

What about it, Cortez? Does your Cortez The Killer act not extend beyond the keyboard? Were you too afraid that once you got to Paris Isalnd or Fort Benning, or Great Lakes Illinois you would melt into a puddle of piss when faced with your drill instructors who couldn’t give a fuck about what a badass you think you are? Pussy.

Bingo!

[Zip City]

This would be a good analogy if the people not joining the military were actively spreading a virus to the ones who did

[Cole Younger]

This would be a good analogy if the people not joining the military were actively spreading a virus to the ones who did

So the vaccine is effective. But I need to get it too because otherwise I might give it to you because it’s effective? We seem to want it both ways.

[boyyourself]

Isn't it sad when cousins marry? Sadly, I can't take credit for that line, stolen from a Martin Mull comedy record in the 70s. Credit where credit is due. Appropriate to the discussion though.

That’s great psychology. Now call my momma some ugly names.

You wouldn't understand Cole, you're not from the pacific northwest. I think it's the lattes, the traffic, and the whiny ass grunge music combined to make them the deep thinking intellects they are.
And if everyone thought like a latte sipper then I'm sure it'd be never never land around here. Nobody would ever even notice Pinocchios nose growing. It's just normal. Mommy why does his nose keep growing is he lying? No honey the science is changing.

[Cole Younger]

Isn't it sad when cousins marry? Sadly, I can't take credit for that line, stolen from a Martin Mull comedy record in the 70s. Credit where credit is due. Appropriate to the discussion though.

That’s great psychology. Now call my momma some ugly names.

You wouldn't understand Cole, you're not from the pacific northwest. I think it's the lattes, the traffic, and the whiny ass grunge music combined to make them the deep thinking intellects they are.
And if everyone thought like a latte sipper then I'm sure it'd be never never land around here. Nobody would ever even notice Pinocchios nose growing. It's just normal. Mommy why does his nose keep growing is he lying? No honey the science is changing.

Eh I’m sure there are cool folks up there. He’s just a shit head.

[Zip City]

This would be a good analogy if the people not joining the military were actively spreading a virus to the ones who did

So the vaccine is effective. But I need to get it too because otherwise I might give it to you because it’s effective? We seem to want it both ways.

You're really overcomplicating it.

[boyyourself]

That’s great psychology. Now call my momma some ugly names.

You wouldn't understand Cole, you're not from the pacific northwest. I think it's the lattes, the traffic, and the whiny ass grunge music combined to make them the deep thinking intellects they are.
And if everyone thought like a latte sipper then I'm sure it'd be never never land around here. Nobody would ever even notice Pinocchios nose growing. It's just normal. Mommy why does his nose keep growing is he lying? No honey the science is changing.

Eh I’m sure there are cool folks up there. He’s just a shit head.

Just playing regional generalization games for entertainment purposes only, my health for this next Armageddon is dependent on me keeping my sense of humor which I plan on doing.

[Cole Younger]

This would be a good analogy if the people not joining the military were actively spreading a virus to the ones who did

So the vaccine is effective. But I need to get it too because otherwise I might give it to you because it’s effective? We seem to want it both ways.

You're really overcomplicating it.

Is that not the argument being made? Where have I got the wires crossed?

[Cole Younger]

You wouldn't understand Cole, you're not from the pacific northwest. I think it's the lattes, the traffic, and the whiny ass grunge music combined to make them the deep thinking intellects they are.
And if everyone thought like a latte sipper then I'm sure it'd be never never land around here. Nobody would ever even notice Pinocchios nose growing. It's just normal. Mommy why does his nose keep growing is he lying? No honey the science is changing.

Eh I’m sure there are cool folks up there. He’s just a shit head.

Just playing regional generalization games for entertainment purposes only, my health for this next Armageddon is dependent on me keeping my sense of humor which I plan on doing.

I heard that. He might be ok in person for all I know. I seriously doubt he’d be near as mouthy in person.

[Zip City]

So the vaccine is effective. But I need to get it too because otherwise I might give it to you because it’s effective? We seem to want it both ways.

You're really overcomplicating it.

Is that not the argument being made? Where have I got the wires crossed?

You should want to get the vaccination to mitigate your own risk of suffering from a bad case of the virus

[Cole Younger]

You're really overcomplicating it.

Is that not the argument being made? Where have I got the wires crossed?

You should want to get the vaccination to mitigate your own risk of suffering from a bad case of the virus

But my health is not your problem. If you genuinely care about my well being I appreciate it. I mean that. But just is not your problem. Look, I adhere to a strict diet, work out at least three days a week in addition to my job which is pretty physical. I slacked off on all that and started getting fat so I got back on it. I probably do more for my own health than the average person here. And like I said, I might get the vaccine at some point. But a bunch of blabbering and hard talk about it from people ain’t gonna expedite that decision and it surely isn’t going to get me to discuss it seriously with them and why would it? Remember that whole coming to something in good faith thing that you mentioned? That’s a two way street, man.

[Zip City]

So you just don't like the way they're asking?

[Cole Younger]

So you just don't like the way they're asking?

No, Zip. And there’s more to it than that. You’re either being obtuse or you have t understood a thing Ive said about my own reasons for having reservations about it. I guess you’re just going to have to live with it, man. Take me off your list of worries. I’m pretty tough and will be ok.

[jr29]

read this Twitter thread, and realize there are implications for your decisions... It is unlikely to make a difference in your egocentric view of our world, and I will stop trying, but please read it

https://twitter.com/Coo_ray/status/1420060053206413314

Dr. J F Curry
@Coo_ray
Jul 27
I’m an Arkansas ER physician. We are at the point warned about a year ago. There are no ICU beds in the state. 4 days ago we called 5 surrounding states looking for ICU beds and we were unsuccessful. (Thread)

In simple terms, because the critical care beds are full of ill Covid patients (who tend to have a slow recovery), there are no beds for the heart attacks, the major traumas, the septic patients…I could go all day.

A few facts:
1) The average delta variant positive person infects 6 people (compared to less than 3 with the original variant)
2) Almost all of the ill pneumonia patients we are seeing are unvaccinated (yes vaccinated people can get it but mostly with milder symptoms)
3) We are seeing a trend of severe disease in younger people

A few requests:
1) Wear a mask! It’s how most of us who spend all day with Covid patients coughing in our faces don’t get it. It’s worked for more than a year. It also keeps you from spreading it.
2) We are in a major surge! Stay away from large unmasked gatherings.
3) The ERs are loaded, there is a wait. Maybe call your doctor first.
4) Get vaccinated! I obsessively love my family and I grabbed each of them by the ear to get their shot as soon as they were eligible. I would never hurt them.


A little snark:
1) If you won’t wear a mask for 20 minutes in Walmart to protect kids who can’t get the vaccine, you would not have hid Anne Frank. Stop saying that! This is your real history hero moment. Step up.
2) Your friend from high school “who has done all the research and knows the truth about vaccines”, hasn’t and doesn’t.
I have 2 degrees and 30 years of experience in medicine and I usually have to read these articles several times to make sure I understand them.

Addendum: I have nothing to promote but getting the vaccine. Also, we have cared for every patient who arrived at our doors. It has been inspiring to see the medical and nursing staff, administration and all the ancillary services make this happen.

I had a chat yesterday with an ER nurse here in Memphis and she basically echoed 'A few facts 1,2 and 3.'
I am not aware of her political affiliation.

[Cole Younger]

I’m still wondering if anybody besides bubba who seemed to have questions about it too has any thoughts on why the flu shot isn’t mandated and there isn’t a full court press on the flu with regular updates from Fauci and wall to wall coverage on it.

Also, are the people being allowed in across our southern border in rather large numbers being made to get the Covid vaccine or are they exempt? If so, why?

[jr29]

I’m still wondering if anybody besides bubba who seemed to have questions about it too has any thoughts on why the flu shot isn’t mandated and there isn’t a full court press on the flu with regular updates from Fauci and wall to wall coverage on it.

Also, are the people being allowed in across our southern border in rather large numbers being made to get the Covid vaccine or are they exempt? If so, why?

I don't know. I could turn the tables though and ask if the media and democrats, I guess, are only concerned with sowing fear then why haven't they scared us about the flu ? Maybe it isn't nearly as dangerous as covid. The flu shot is pushed though and it has been for a long time, at least where I live.

They tried to scare us with swine flu, mad cow, west nile...etc but those never materialized. Maybe the media stopped talking about those things because they went away or never materialized in the states. There was no story after so long. This one (covid) actually happened and there are dead people to prove it. (Pouring some sparkling water out for Joe Diffie and John Prine and Charley Pride)

[Cole Younger]

I’m still wondering if anybody besides bubba who seemed to have questions about it too has any thoughts on why the flu shot isn’t mandated and there isn’t a full court press on the flu with regular updates from Fauci and wall to wall coverage on it.

Also, are the people being allowed in across our southern border in rather large numbers being made to get the Covid vaccine or are they exempt? If so, why?

I don't know. I could turn the tables though and ask if the media and democrats, I guess, are only concerned with sowing fear then why haven't they scared us about the flu ? Maybe it isn't nearly as dangerous as covid. The flu shot is pushed though and it has been for a long time, at least where I live.

They tried to scare us with swine flu, mad cow, west nile...etc but those never materialized. Maybe the media stopped talking about those things because they went away or never materialized in the states. There was no story after so long. This one (covid) actually happened and there are dead people to prove it. (Pouring some sparkling water out for Joe Diffie and John Prine and Charley Pride)

But people die from the flu every year and not word is uttered about mandates or masks or lockdowns. I’m not suggesting something sinister is behind it although that is t out of the question. This has all just reinforced my belief that the government sucks at most things it tries. A bunch of eighth graders wouldn’t have bungled this any worse. I tend to chalk these things up to plain old laziness and incompetence as much as anything else.

Also, when Orange Man mentioned a possible need for national lockdowns NPR said that was probably not legal. Now he’s gone and nobody says that. This is an example of why I’m skeptical about the information we’re getting.

[LBRod]

Why do we no longer hear about herd immunity? It's all vaccines, all the time.
What about all those people who had it, recovered, and now have stronger immunity than the vaccinated?
It makes me wonder.

[jr29]

I’m still wondering if anybody besides bubba who seemed to have questions about it too has any thoughts on why the flu shot isn’t mandated and there isn’t a full court press on the flu with regular updates from Fauci and wall to wall coverage on it.

Also, are the people being allowed in across our southern border in rather large numbers being made to get the Covid vaccine or are they exempt? If so, why?

I don't know. I could turn the tables though and ask if the media and democrats, I guess, are only concerned with sowing fear then why haven't they scared us about the flu ? Maybe it isn't nearly as dangerous as covid. The flu shot is pushed though and it has been for a long time, at least where I live.

They tried to scare us with swine flu, mad cow, west nile...etc but those never materialized. Maybe the media stopped talking about those things because they went away or never materialized in the states. There was no story after so long. This one (covid) actually happened and there are dead people to prove it. (Pouring some sparkling water out for Joe Diffie and John Prine and Charley Pride)

But people die from the flu every year and not word is uttered about mandates or masks or lockdowns. I’m not suggesting something sinister is behind it although that is t out of the question. This has all just reinforced my belief that the government sucks at most things it tries. A bunch of eighth graders wouldn’t have bungled this any worse. I tend to chalk these things up to plain old laziness and incompetence as much as anything else.

Also, when Orange Man mentioned a possible need for national lockdowns NPR said that was probably not legal. Now he’s gone and nobody says that. This is an example of why I’m skeptical about the information we’re getting.

People don't die at this rate from the flu. They just don't. I know........the mortality rate is different than it was this time last year.

Schools around here do close occasionally for flu outbreaks.

There has never been a lockdown with this so can you imagine the shit storm if it was suggested in a bad flu year ?

[Cole Younger]

Why do we no longer hear about herd immunity? It's all vaccines, all the time.
What about all those people who had it, recovered, and now have stronger immunity than the vaccinated?
It makes me wonder.

I think this vaccine dust up is a distraction. From what, I don’t know.

[jr29]

Why do we no longer hear about herd immunity? It's all vaccines, all the time.
What about all those people who had it, recovered, and now have stronger immunity than the vaccinated?
It makes me wonder.

Fair point. Those numbers are out there but not as available as they should be.

Although, the push for more vaccines is in an effort to reach herd immunity.

[Cole Younger]

I don't know. I could turn the tables though and ask if the media and democrats, I guess, are only concerned with sowing fear then why haven't they scared us about the flu ? Maybe it isn't nearly as dangerous as covid. The flu shot is pushed though and it has been for a long time, at least where I live.

They tried to scare us with swine flu, mad cow, west nile...etc but those never materialized. Maybe the media stopped talking about those things because they went away or never materialized in the states. There was no story after so long. This one (covid) actually happened and there are dead people to prove it. (Pouring some sparkling water out for Joe Diffie and John Prine and Charley Pride)

But people die from the flu every year and not word is uttered about mandates or masks or lockdowns. I’m not suggesting something sinister is behind it although that is t out of the question. This has all just reinforced my belief that the government sucks at most things it tries. A bunch of eighth graders wouldn’t have bungled this any worse. I tend to chalk these things up to plain old laziness and incompetence as much as anything else.

Also, when Orange Man mentioned a possible need for national lockdowns NPR said that was probably not legal. Now he’s gone and nobody says that. This is an example of why I’m skeptical about the information we’re getting.

People don't die at this rate from the flu. They just don't. I know........the mortality rate is different than it was this time last year.

Schools around here do close occasionally for flu outbreaks.

There has never been a lockdown with this so can you imagine the shit storm if it was suggested in a bad flu year ?

Shit storm? It would depend on how it was politicized wouldn’t it?

[jr29]

But people die from the flu every year and not word is uttered about mandates or masks or lockdowns. I’m not suggesting something sinister is behind it although that is t out of the question. This has all just reinforced my belief that the government sucks at most things it tries. A bunch of eighth graders wouldn’t have bungled this any worse. I tend to chalk these things up to plain old laziness and incompetence as much as anything else.

Also, when Orange Man mentioned a possible need for national lockdowns NPR said that was probably not legal. Now he’s gone and nobody says that. This is an example of why I’m skeptical about the information we’re getting.

People don't die at this rate from the flu. They just don't. I know........the mortality rate is different than it was this time last year.

Schools around here do close occasionally for flu outbreaks.

There has never been a lockdown with this so can you imagine the shit storm if it was suggested in a bad flu year ?

Shit storm? It would depend on how it was politicized wouldn’t it?

I'd raise hell if the idea was floated in an average flu year. I'd be shoulder to shoulder with you.

[Cole Younger]

Also, there are folks in California and New York that would probably like the information that they didn’t go through lockdowns.

[Cole Younger]

People don't die at this rate from the flu. They just don't. I know........the mortality rate is different than it was this time last year.

Schools around here do close occasionally for flu outbreaks.

There has never been a lockdown with this so can you imagine the shit storm if it was suggested in a bad flu year ?

Shit storm? It would depend on how it was politicized wouldn’t it?

I'd raise hell if the idea was floated in an average flu year. I'd be shoulder to shoulder with you.

There are folks here that would say you were inbred for doing so.

[jr29]

Also, there are folks in California and New York that would probably like the information that they didn’t go through lockdowns.

You referenced a national lockdown. I didn't miss one day of work.

[Cole Younger]

Also, there are folks in California and New York that would probably like the information that they didn’t go through lockdowns.

You referenced a national lockdown. I didn't miss one day of work.

Ten four.

[beantownbubba]

This would be a good analogy if the people not joining the military were actively spreading a virus to the ones who did

So the vaccine is effective. But I need to get it too because otherwise I might give it to you because it’s effective? We seem to want it both ways.

My non expert take on this using relative (not definitive or scientifically determined) numbers:

If 95% of those eligible in your area are vaccinated, an unvaccinated person is primarily at risk for him or herself only and secondarily puts those ineligible for the vaccine at risk. The latter may or may not be a big problem depending on how much exposure the unvaccinated person has to the ineligible population. One can complicate this further by going to the level where the unvaccinated person infects a vaccinated person who infects an ineligible person but let's keep it simple.

If 35% of the community is vaccinated the unvaccinated person is a primary threat to him or herself and to a large majority of his or her neighbors/community members while still being a secondary threat to the ineligible and contributes to the situation described below.

In the 35% vaccinated case and if the vaccinated percentage of the population is anywhere from zero to about 90%, the unvaccinated person combined with all other unvaccinated people in the community pretty much insure that threats or the actuality of mask mandates, lockdowns and the like won't go away for a long time and that the economy won't get back to full strength for an even longer time, particularly impacting mom and pop stores, bars and restaurants. This does not apply to communities where the population density is 5 people per square mile or thereabouts, which eliminates less than 10% of the population (and maybe closer to 1%, I didn't do the math) from these concerns.

Note: This latter point goes to the herd immunity question raised by Rod. Herd immunity is still the goal but my guess is that the places with the worst covid outbreaks are also the places with the highest vaccination rates so herd immunity kind of melds w/ the vaccination rate. Which means eventually those places currently experiencing new outbreaks and low vaccination rates will eventually reach something like herd immunity but only after a lot of unnecessary pain and aggravation. This is extremely unscientific but I'm pretty sure that's how it's been working in practice.