mlb 2020

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Shakespeare
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mlb 2020

Post by Shakespeare »

loath as i am to move on from this extremely fun season, i guess its more than time considering we finally have an active offseason again. if i absolutely had to choose i would have picked rendon, but after last year its hard to complain. it sucks to lose someone you watched blossom into a star but have no ill feelings towards him (nor did i towards harper, but the general fan reception this time has been far different)

and also i just read about this max muncy story, where his home address leaked online and he posted on instagram asking fans not to send autograph requests there. lot of folks being willfully obtuse in reaction, moaning about ungrateful millionaires (except he made the league minimum last year, which is nowhere near enough to sign away privacy or even hire someone to handle fan mail) ignoring children (except children almost certainly arent the ones taking advantage of personal info leaked on the internet) and other such nonsense. his post was clumsy wording at the very worst but i cant wrap my head around fans feeling that entitled to a players life. send it to the ballpark or wait around batting practice and hope for the best like fans have done for decades. its december, let the man have some space

anyway, baseball.

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bovine knievel
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by bovine knievel »

Image

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Sterling Bigmouth
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by Sterling Bigmouth »

Fun subplot to follow: MLB is enacting a 3 batter minimum for relievers starting in 2020. Don’t think it’s going to affect the game too much, but I’ll be curious to see who the first team/manager is to bemoan the new rule.

Also I feel great about the Braves going into next year, but I’ll feel much better if they don’t let Josh Donaldson sign with the Nats.
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Zip City
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by Zip City »

Sterling Bigmouth wrote:Fun subplot to follow: MLB is enacting a 3 batter minimum for relievers starting in 2020. Don’t think it’s going to affect the game too much, but I’ll be curious to see who the first team/manager is to bemoan the new rule.
I'll bemoan it. It's fundamentally changing the strategy of pitching while not actually solving any problems
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Shakespeare
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by Shakespeare »

im into it. itll create new problems, as any change tends to do (particularly in baseball, it seems) but seeing a guy come in, get a guy on one or two pitches, then depart because Matchups is an absolute bore.

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Tequila Cowboy
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Shakespeare wrote:im into it. itll create new problems, as any change tends to do (particularly in baseball, it seems) but seeing a guy come in, get a guy on one or two pitches, then depart because Matchups is an absolute bore.
I despise the rule. What if you bring in a guy and he just doesn’t have it that day? Let him get knocked around for three batters and suddenly the game is out if hand? I get they want to eliminate the strategy of the LOOGY (which I disagree with as well) but what about the unintended consequences? This is a terrible change.
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Shakespeare
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by Shakespeare »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:
Shakespeare wrote:im into it. itll create new problems, as any change tends to do (particularly in baseball, it seems) but seeing a guy come in, get a guy on one or two pitches, then depart because Matchups is an absolute bore.
I despise the rule. What if you bring in a guy and he just doesn’t have it that day? Let him get knocked around for three batters and suddenly the game is out if hand? I get they want to eliminate the strategy of the LOOGY (which I disagree with as well) but what about the unintended consequences? This is a terrible change.
my guess is teams will claim an injury and pull the pitcher, particularly if its a fringey guy they can go without for two weeks.

how mlb will try to police that is beyond me though, because there will undoubtedly be legitimate cases of injuries before facing three batters

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Re: mlb 2020

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Shakespeare wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:
Shakespeare wrote:im into it. itll create new problems, as any change tends to do (particularly in baseball, it seems) but seeing a guy come in, get a guy on one or two pitches, then depart because Matchups is an absolute bore.
I despise the rule. What if you bring in a guy and he just doesn’t have it that day? Let him get knocked around for three batters and suddenly the game is out if hand? I get they want to eliminate the strategy of the LOOGY (which I disagree with as well) but what about the unintended consequences? This is a terrible change.
my guess is teams will claim an injury and pull the pitcher, particularly if its a fringey guy they can go without for two weeks.

how mlb will try to police that is beyond me though, because there will undoubtedly be legitimate cases of injuries before facing three batters
So you force a manager in pseudo-cheating to enact logical strategy? That makes no sense. This commissioner wants to diminish the role of pitching in favor of scoring. Worst commissioner of my lifetime and considering he followed Bud Selig that’s really saying something.
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Tequila Cowboy
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Dear Mr. Kuhn: After twelve years in the major leagues, I do not feel that I am a piece of property to be bought and sold irrespective of my wishes. I believe that any system which produces that result violates my basic rights as a citizen and is inconsistent with the laws of the United States and of the several States.”

— Portion of Curt Flood’s letter to baseball commissioner Bowie Kuhn, dated Dec. 24, 1969
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by beantownbubba »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Dear Mr. Kuhn: After twelve years in the major leagues, I do not feel that I am a piece of property to be bought and sold irrespective of my wishes. I believe that any system which produces that result violates my basic rights as a citizen and is inconsistent with the laws of the United States and of the several States.”

— Portion of Curt Flood’s letter to baseball commissioner Bowie Kuhn, dated Dec. 24, 1969
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by LBRod »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Dear Mr. Kuhn: After twelve years in the major leagues, I do not feel that I am a piece of property to be bought and sold irrespective of my wishes. I believe that any system which produces that result violates my basic rights as a citizen and is inconsistent with the laws of the United States and of the several States.”

— Portion of Curt Flood’s letter to baseball commissioner Bowie Kuhn, dated Dec. 24, 1969
https://theundefeated.com/features/caus ... ce-letter/
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oilpiers
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by oilpiers »

I know I am a homer regarding the Padres. I moved to SD when I was 7, Padres first year I turned 8. Been going to games in SD, LA, and now Cincy for 51 seasons. I know this sounds like hyperbole, but I watched about 100 Padre games last year. Tatis Jr. may very well be the best player I have ever seen. He only played 84 games due to injury, but still hit 22 homers at the age of 20. That's the least of it. He turns 21 today. Check out these 21 plays from last year. Trout is the king of baseball, but he CAN NOT do the things Tatis does. Nor can anyone else I've ever seen. Not even Tony Gwynn.
Things I had never seen before
Score from first base on a line drive single that was properly played.
Score from second on a popup caught by a second baseman. TWICE
Score from third on a comeback to the pitcher.
I have never seen a runner caught in a pickle be safe without a throwing error. Number one is unbelievable.

And these examples are only his base running.


https://www.mlb.com/news/fernando-tatis ... ie-moments

jr29
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by jr29 »

So the shit has hit the fan and my team isn't involved.....yet.
And Jose Altuve was wearing a wire or some shit.....where's Frank Drebin when you need him ?

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Re: mlb 2020

Post by Zip City »

jr29 wrote:So the shit has hit the fan and my team isn't involved.....yet.
And Jose Altuve was wearing a wire or some shit.....where's Frank Drebin when you need him ?
You kind of need to admire them saying “not only are we going to cheat, but we’re going to cheat as much as possible”
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by jr29 »

Zip City wrote:
jr29 wrote:So the shit has hit the fan and my team isn't involved.....yet.
And Jose Altuve was wearing a wire or some shit.....where's Frank Drebin when you need him ?
You kind of need to admire them saying “not only are we going to cheat, but we’re going to cheat as much as possible”
It's the damndest thing I've ever seen. Now everyone is getting fired. Quite the dumpster fire.

And I really, really dislike Alex Bregman so if anyone else is caught in the middle of it I hope it's him.

chuckrh
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by chuckrh »

i don't know which is worse: having a team that has been woefully run for decades where the primary concern is squeezing as much money out of the fans & taxpayers as possible (Mariners, i'm talking about you) or a bit of sign stealing. think i could put up with a little cheating, after all we had Gaylord Perry for a few years if it meant getting to the world series. Basically, I've given up on living to see the Mariners ever even get to the world series. & they charge top dollar in baseball to see year after year of horrible play. i only went to one game last year & i don't know if i'll even do that this year. Now, going to the park is like inserting yourself into a giant & constant T Mobile commercial. obnoxious.

Bill in CT
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by Bill in CT »

Using technology to steal signs dates back to 1951. See the article below for evidence.

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/01/spor ... signs.html

:lol: at all the pearl-clutching about stealing signs. Yes they used technology to do it. So what? Either stealing signs (however you do it) is okay or it isn't. I don't see teams being punished for stealing signs without technology so think this current scandal is way overblown.

Rob Manfred is proving to be a horrendous MLB Commissioner between his idiotic rule changes and these draconian punishments for...wait for it folks...stealing signs in baseball.

:x at the Yankee players and fans feigning outrage over the stealing of signs by Houston and Boston. I don't see them offering to give back any of the pennants and WS titles won by Yankee teams that were rife with PED cheats. It's so very hypocritical and comical.
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Zip City
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by Zip City »

Completely disagree. If the runner on 2nd catches on to the signs and can somehow grab his balls or something to let the hitter know, so be it. But to rig up cameras and monitor systems and on-body buzzers is so beyond the pale that I can't believe anyone would defend it.

Actually, I believe that New England Patriots fans might defend it....
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Zip City wrote:Completely disagree. If the runner on 2nd catches on to the signs and can somehow grab his balls or something to let the hitter know, so be it. But to rig up cameras and monitor systems and on-body buzzers is so beyond the pale that I can't believe anyone would defend it.

Actually, I believe that New England Patriots fans might defend it....
Yeah, I’m with you. Technology makes it different. Initially I was thinking the other way but looking at the Astros 6% drop in K rate between 2016 and 2017 and then them bragging about their “advanced hitting program” when it was cheating is vile. Unlike some I think the punishment was enough, I know many thought the title should be vacated and I couldn’t go there but I feel sorry for none of the actors.
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by beantownbubba »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Technology makes it different.
Electronic sign stealing is to standing on second base scratching your balls as PEDs are to push ups.
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by jr29 »

Zip City wrote:Completely disagree. If the runner on 2nd catches on to the signs and can somehow grab his balls or something to let the hitter know, so be it. But to rig up cameras and monitor systems and on-body buzzers is so beyond the pale that I can't believe anyone would defend it.

Actually, I believe that New England Patriots fans might defend it....
Totally agree.

Bill in CT
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by Bill in CT »

Zip City wrote:Completely disagree. If the runner on 2nd catches on to the signs and can somehow grab his balls or something to let the hitter know, so be it. But to rig up cameras and monitor systems and on-body buzzers is so beyond the pale that I can't believe anyone would defend it.

Actually, I believe that New England Patriots fans might defend it....
Center field cameras were still allowed in 2017 and 2018. Look it up.

I'm a Bears fan. But the claim by some NFL fans that the Patriots won any of their titles by cheating is comical and ill-informed.

http://www.yourteamcheats.com

If every NFL teams cheats then doesn't it stand to reason that every MLB team cheats too?

To say that sign stealing (by whatever method) is as bad as PED cheating is bizarre.
Last edited by Bill in CT on Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bill in CT
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by Bill in CT »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:
Zip City wrote:Completely disagree. If the runner on 2nd catches on to the signs and can somehow grab his balls or something to let the hitter know, so be it. But to rig up cameras and monitor systems and on-body buzzers is so beyond the pale that I can't believe anyone would defend it.

Actually, I believe that New England Patriots fans might defend it....
Yeah, I’m with you. Technology makes it different. Initially I was thinking the other way but looking at the Astros 6% drop in K rate between 2016 and 2017 and then them bragging about their “advanced hitting program” when it was cheating is vile. Unlike some I think the punishment was enough, I know many thought the title should be vacated and I couldn’t go there but I feel sorry for none of the actors.
If they cheated in 2017 and won the WS in 7 games and didn't cheat in 2019 and lost the WS in 7 games then how much did cheating really help them?
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by jr29 »

Something was definitely up with Altuve and the bizarre jersey scene. When he was asked why he was so adamant about his jersey staying on he had three different answers. That was in 2019.

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Re: mlb 2020

Post by jr29 »

And AJ Hinch didn't condone this shit but didn't stop it either ? Is he a fucking child ?

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Re: mlb 2020

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Bill in CT wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:
Zip City wrote:Completely disagree. If the runner on 2nd catches on to the signs and can somehow grab his balls or something to let the hitter know, so be it. But to rig up cameras and monitor systems and on-body buzzers is so beyond the pale that I can't believe anyone would defend it.

Actually, I believe that New England Patriots fans might defend it....
Yeah, I’m with you. Technology makes it different. Initially I was thinking the other way but looking at the Astros 6% drop in K rate between 2016 and 2017 and then them bragging about their “advanced hitting program” when it was cheating is vile. Unlike some I think the punishment was enough, I know many thought the title should be vacated and I couldn’t go there but I feel sorry for none of the actors.
If they cheated in 2017 and won the WS in 7 games and didn't cheat in 2019 and lost the WS in 7 games then how much did cheating really help them?
Look at the K rate from 2016 to 2017 where it dropped 6 points (the largest K rate drop in history when the average was actually going up) and they improved by 17 wins. The idea that none of this helped them is comical. C'mon Bill, you're a smart guy, you can't be this casual about this.
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Bill in CT
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by Bill in CT »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:
Bill in CT wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote: Yeah, I’m with you. Technology makes it different. Initially I was thinking the other way but looking at the Astros 6% drop in K rate between 2016 and 2017 and then them bragging about their “advanced hitting program” when it was cheating is vile. Unlike some I think the punishment was enough, I know many thought the title should be vacated and I couldn’t go there but I feel sorry for none of the actors.
If they cheated in 2017 and won the WS in 7 games and didn't cheat in 2019 and lost the WS in 7 games then how much did cheating really help them?
Look at the K rate from 2016 to 2017 where it dropped 6 points (the largest K rate drop in history when the average was actually going up) and they improved by 17 wins. The idea that none of this helped them is comical. C'mon Bill, you're a smart guy, you can't be this casual about this.
What about 2017 vs 2019?
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Bill in CT wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:
Look at the K rate from 2016 to 2017 where it dropped 6 points (the largest K rate drop in history when the average was actually going up) and they improved by 17 wins. The idea that none of this helped them is comical. C'mon Bill, you're a smart guy, you can't be this casual about this.
What about 2017 vs 2019?
It's gone up a little since 2017 but still far below the league average of 23%. The bottom line is that if you know what pitches are coming it's going to affect your PA. I don't disagree with you that stealing signs has always been part of the game and that this was a failure of baseball to keep the rules in line with current technology, but it is cheating and to say otherwise is intellectually dishonest. Also the punishment was far less for what the Braves got for an off the field scandal. I'm no fan of Manfred but he got it right this time.
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Bill in CT
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by Bill in CT »

I think it's highly unlikely that the Astros were cheating in the 2019 postseason. They lost all 4 home games in the WS and won all 3 road games.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb- ... vfNDIxJSDU
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Bill in CT
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Re: mlb 2020

Post by Bill in CT »

Here's an article on how the 1951 New York Giants used technology to steal signs on their way to an historic comeback to win the National League pennant. Unlike today's whiny players, the 1951 Brooklyn Dodgers don't harbor any ill will toward the Giants for their stealing of signs.

https://nypost.com/2002/07/29/51-giants ... ng-scheme/
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