College Basketball 2015-16

[Mr. B]

Yeah, that one Duke game proves your are right. The 5 other 2nd round games in which the favorite won by over 25 points establish nothing. And the 6 1st round games with gaps of 30+ also are meaningless. But this is by far the longest dialogue I have ever had about woman's college basketball, so I'll just recognize that your UConn team is special, congratulate you in advance on this year's championship, and move on.

[Zip City]

I don't think that stating that there is a huge gap in talent in Women's College Basketball takes anything away from what UConn has accomplished.

[Bill in CT]

I wonder if people tried to disparage UCLA's amazing run in the 60s and 70s by making similarly inaccurate claims about the lack of competition at that time.
Number 12 seed Quinnipiac advanced to the Sweet 16 btw. It's nice to have a 2nd team there from my state.

[Bill in CT]

I don't think that stating that there is a huge gap in talent in Women's College Basketball takes anything away from what UConn has accomplished.

The problem is that people who don't follow women's college hoops assume that UConn gets the best recruiting class every year. That is not the case. There is not a huge gap in talent between UConn and Baylor, Notre Dame, etc. UConn has better coaching. As uncle rickey and other New England Patriots fans can tell you, that counts for a lot.

[Zip City]

I don't think that stating that there is a huge gap in talent in Women's College Basketball takes anything away from what UConn has accomplished.

The problem is that people who don't follow women's college hoops assume that UConn gets the best recruiting class every year. That is not the case. There is not a huge gap in talent between UConn and Baylor, Notre Dame, etc. UConn has better coaching. As uncle rickey and other New England Patriots fans can tell you, that counts for a lot.

There's no question that UConn's coach is the best now, probably ever. I don't discredit that at all

[Iowan]

My point has never been a shot at UConn, or a shot at anything really. The only program I pay attention to (and it's not that much attention) is a consistent Top 25 program that makes the Dance almost every year.

They can't lick the boots of the Top 5 programs. The talent level isn't even close.

My observations come through that filter. That in no way, shape, or form is a shot at UConn. Geno has consistently recruited great players and consistently outcoached the competition. It's one of the pinnacles of American sporting dominance.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

just read that Oklahoma State is interviewing Doug Gottlied for their head coach vacancy





Better hide the credit cards

[Iowan]

They want their own Fred Hoiberg.

Honestly wouldn't shock me if Gottlieb did ok there.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

They want their own Fred Hoiberg.

a guy who comes home for five years, gets to Sweet 16 once, and then bolts for the NBA?

have at it

that said #1, still probably no worse than Sean Sutton or Travis Ford

that said #2, having their own Fred Hoiberg would beat having their own Matt Doherty

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

Honestly wouldn't shock me if Gottlieb did ok there.

[Zip City]

They want their own Fred Hoiberg.

Honestly wouldn't shock me if Gottlieb did ok there.

They can have the real Fred Hoiberg if they want him

#bitterBullsfan

[Iowan]

They want their own Fred Hoiberg.

Honestly wouldn't shock me if Gottlieb did ok there.

They can have the real Fred Hoiberg if they want him

#bitterBullsfan

The chance of Hoiberg coaching Okie State is about as high as me coaching them. He might literally get crucified the first time they played in Hilton.

I knew he'd go all Tim Floyd as soon as he left Ames, so I've felt some smug satisfaction about the Bulls gig blowing up in his face.

[Iowan]

They want their own Fred Hoiberg.

a guy who comes home for five years, gets to Sweet 16 once, and then bolts for the NBA?

have at it

that said #1, still probably no worse than Sean Sutton or Travis Ford

that said #2, having their own Fred Hoiberg would beat having their own Matt Doherty

Two conference tournament titles in there, and a bunch of home wins over ranked teams as well. If Hoiberg has stayed at ISU, he'd have probably knocked KU off as regular season champs and made deep tourney runs. There are less than 10 fanbases that wouldn't view his tenure as a success, and you happen to be part of one.

If you look at the last 10 years of Okie State basketball, it's an upgrade. A big one.

[4sooner]

They want their own Fred Hoiberg.

Honestly wouldn't shock me if Gottlieb did ok there.

A lot of em are solidly behind Gottlieb even though he has no coaching experience. The problem is that Head Asshole-er-AD Mike holder is planted solidly on the hotseat with this hire. First he gave Travis Ford that ridiculous 10 year contract after his first year there. People quit showing up for games as the team continued to under perform. Then underwood left the day after losing to Mich. The back story there keeps going right back to Holder trying to low ball him to the point of insulting. Underwood had really brought the fan base back in and did a great job. I'm close with a few Poke donors and they were looking forward to him being there for quite a few years. Then he wasn't.
Gottleib wanted the job last year when they hired Underwood. Holder didn't give him an interview. OSU is a different kind of place. You've got to really want to be there. Mike Gundy-former OSU qb. Josh Holliday-former OSU baseball player. John Smith-Former OSU wrestler. Eddie Sutton-OSU grad. Hell Holder himself was the long time Golf coach.
The problem for Gottleib is If Holder hires him and his lack of experience causes problems then Holder probably loses his job. Finally. I don't think Holder wants to stick his neck out for Gottleib. BUT ive heard that T Boone likes him. Gonna be interesting.

[Iowan]

They want their own Fred Hoiberg.

Honestly wouldn't shock me if Gottlieb did ok there.

A lot of em are solidly behind Gottlieb even though he has no coaching experience. The problem is that Head Asshole-er-AD Mike holder is planted solidly on the hotseat with this hire. First he gave Travis Ford that ridiculous 10 year contract after his first year there. People quit showing up for games as the team continued to under perform. Then underwood left the day after losing to Mich. The back story there keeps going right back to Holder trying to low ball him to the point of insulting. Underwood had really brought the fan base back in and did a great job. I'm close with a few Poke donors and they were looking forward to him being there for quite a few years. Then he wasn't.
Gottleib wanted the job last year when they hired Underwood. Holder didn't give him an interview. OSU is a different kind of place. You've got to really want to be there. Mike Gundy-former OSU qb. Josh Holliday-former OSU baseball player. John Smith-Former OSU wrestler. Eddie Sutton-OSU grad. Hell Holder himself was the long time Golf coach.
The problem for Gottleib is If Holder hires him and his lack of experience causes problems then Holder probably loses his job. Finally. I don't think Holder wants to stick his neck out for Gottleib. BUT ive heard that T Boone likes him. Gonna be interesting.

When I went down to Stillwater for our game there in '14, a lot of folks I talked to said Holder was the reason Gundy's always flirting with other jobs. Apparently his friendship with T. Boone is the only thing saving his job. Especially after the Travis Ford contract.

[rlipps]

They want their own Fred Hoiberg.

Honestly wouldn't shock me if Gottlieb did ok there.

They can have the real Fred Hoiberg if they want him

#bitterBullsfan

The chance of Hoiberg coaching Okie State is about as high as me coaching them. He might literally get crucified the first time they played in Hilton.

I knew he'd go all Tim Floyd as soon as he left Ames, so I've felt some smug satisfaction about the Bulls gig blowing up in his face.

As someone who watched a man that was as beloved by a fanbase as any coach I can remember, Rick Pitino at UK, go coach their archrival, Louisville, I would just say, "Never say never"

[Iowan]

The chance of Hoiberg coaching Okie State is about as high as me coaching them. He might literally get crucified the first time they played in Hilton.

I knew he'd go all Tim Floyd as soon as he left Ames, so I've felt some smug satisfaction about the Bulls gig blowing up in his face.

As someone who watched a man that was as beloved by a fanbase as any coach I can remember, Rick Pitino at UK, go coach their archrival, Louisville, I would just say, "Never say never"

I know what you're saying, but Fred Hoiberg has deeper ties and roots to ISU than Pitino had UK ties. The guy was a fucking ball boy at Hilton Coliseum when he was in grade school.

I could see him returning to the college game at a not-Iowa State school, but it won't be a Big 12 school or Iowa. If it is, he'd be the most reviled individual in Iowa sports history, save maybe Steve Alford.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

They want their own Fred Hoiberg.

a guy who comes home for five years, gets to Sweet 16 once, and then bolts for the NBA?

have at it

that said #1, still probably no worse than Sean Sutton or Travis Ford

that said #2, having their own Fred Hoiberg would beat having their own Matt Doherty

Two conference tournament titles in there, and a bunch of home wins over ranked teams as well. If Hoiberg has stayed at ISU, he'd have probably knocked KU off as regular season champs and made deep tourney runs. There are less than 10 fanbases that wouldn't view his tenure as a success, and you happen to be part of one.

If you look at the last 10 years of Okie State basketball, it's an upgrade. A big one.

Points taken. I probably should have done a better job emphasizing that my main point was not so much the wins/losses but more so the bolting, especially when he was so deeply connected to Ames

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

since some of you are on the ground in Oklahoma/Big 12 country, question: did Underwood leave for Illinois simply because the Illini threw so much money at him? To me, leaving a school after just one year for a huge payday seems like the kind of thing a coach would not want to have on his reputation, so I'm interested to hear what you guys know. I don't know for sure, but from what I gather Underwood had no history at Illinois that would pull him there

[Iowan]

I've heard that Illinois backed the Brincks truck up to Underwood's door. He asked Holder (OSU AD) to pay him the Big 12 average (he was the lowest paid coach in the league). Holder refused, so Underwood bailed. That's a pretty popular story on OSU/Big 12 related message boards.

Illinois is paying a LOT of money for a guy that hasn't quite proven that level of worth, IMO. I think Underwood's a very good coach, but they made him Top 10 paid in the country after a surprise Sweet 16 at a mid-major, and a nice little revival at a P5 school.

[Iowan]

Two conference tournament titles in there, and a bunch of home wins over ranked teams as well. If Hoiberg has stayed at ISU, he'd have probably knocked KU off as regular season champs and made deep tourney runs. There are less than 10 fanbases that wouldn't view his tenure as a success, and you happen to be part of one.

If you look at the last 10 years of Okie State basketball, it's an upgrade. A big one.

Points taken. I probably should have done a better job emphasizing that my main point was not so much the wins/losses but more so the bolting, especially when he was so deeply connected to Ames

It was definitely the all-time nut kick when he left, but I think if you had told me at the depths of Greg McDermott hell that we could hire Hoiberg, go to 4 tourneys, win 2 Big 12 tourney titles (including one over KU), and make a Sweet 16 run only to have him bail with the program on the cusp of the next step, I'd take it. It set us up to bring in a solid coach, and I think we have that in Prohm.

I think after the glimmer of hope in Stillwater this year, and the way the fanbase returned (a lot of them threw in the towel during the Ford era and went all in on the Thunder) to Gallagher-Iba, they want the guy who loves their school, knows the game, and would take him leaving after 5 years if it meant sustained success and a good foundation for the next guy.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

I've heard that Illinois backed the Brincks truck up to Underwood's door. He asked Holder (OSU AD) to pay him the Big 12 average (he was the lowest paid coach in the league). Holder refused, so Underwood bailed. That's a pretty popular story on OSU/Big 12 related message boards.

Illinois is paying a LOT of money for a guy that hasn't quite proven that level of worth, IMO. I think Underwood's a very good coach, but they made him Top 10 paid in the country after a surprise Sweet 16 at a mid-major, and a nice little revival at a P5 school.

Thanks for the info! All things being equal, probably easier to win year after year at OSU than Illinois, especially with an ascendant Northwestern becoming more attractive to recruits in state, so the big payday makes the most sense for him going there

Interested to see who Indiana hires

ETA: I totally forgot McDermott coached at Ames. I thought Eustachy was replaced by Hoiberg, but just looked it up and I was way off. And for the record, I've never even heard of Wayne Morgan, and I'm a hoops junkie

[4sooner]

I've heard that Illinois backed the Brincks truck up to Underwood's door. He asked Holder (OSU AD) to pay him the Big 12 average (he was the lowest paid coach in the league). Holder refused, so Underwood bailed. That's a pretty popular story on OSU/Big 12 related message boards.

Illinois is paying a LOT of money for a guy that hasn't quite proven that level of worth, IMO. I think Underwood's a very good coach, but they made him Top 10 paid in the country after a surprise Sweet 16 at a mid-major, and a nice little revival at a P5 school.

Thanks for the info! All things being equal, probably easier to win year after year at OSU than Illinois, especially with an ascendant Northwestern becoming more attractive to recruits in state, so the big payday makes the most sense for him going there

Interested to see who Indiana hires

ETA: I totally forgot McDermott coached at Ames. I thought Eustachy was replaced by Hoiberg, but just looked it up and I was way off. And for the record, I've never even heard of Wayne Morgan, and I'm a hoops junkie

Of course tripling his salary was the main thing. However Illinois is is thought to be the better job in general. And there was already bad blood between he and Holder. Holder had jumped is ass already this season for leaving the lights on at the practice facility occasionally. He had asked for 2 more treadmills in the training room and Holder turned him down. Then when he went to negotiate a new contract before the Illini offer Holder told him "Fordš first year was better than yours anyway""
Illinois calls, He bolts.

[Iowan]

Thanks for the info! All things being equal, probably easier to win year after year at OSU than Illinois, especially with an ascendant Northwestern becoming more attractive to recruits in state, so the big payday makes the most sense for him going there

Interested to see who Indiana hires

ETA: I totally forgot McDermott coached at Ames. I thought Eustachy was replaced by Hoiberg, but just looked it up and I was way off. And for the record, I've never even heard of Wayne Morgan, and I'm a hoops junkie

Fun Fact: UNC beat a Wayne Morgan coached ISU team en route to the 2005 National title.

He was a mid-tier Eustachy assistant, and the clown AD that fired Eustachy fucked up the coaching search so bad he had to fall back on his own mid-tier assistant. He was a good recruiter, but sucked at holding a program together. His first year, we swept the Big 12 at Hilton, but went winless on the road. We only made the NIT but went to the final 4 of that. The next year, we had a season that looked horrible out the gate, but rallied into a 9 game win streak (which included a win in Phog Allen) which got us into the Dance. We had a 6 man rotation at that point. We beat Minnesota in the 8/9 game, and hung with you guys for about 15 minutes. The next year, the team entered the season ranked (the star-studded back court returned) and completely tanked. He got canned, which seemed like the right move at the time. Until McDermott went sub NIT for 5 consecutive seasons and it was clear our AD (who was not the AD when Morgan was hired) wasn't going to fire him, despite dropping attendance and absolute anger from the fanbase. Greg did us all a favor when he went to Creighton. Hoiberg had been pressing hard for the job, and the AD got him cheap. Home run, I guess.

And now everyone here knows far more about mid 00's Iowa State basketball than they ever cared to know.

[Iowan]

I've heard that Illinois backed the Brincks truck up to Underwood's door. He asked Holder (OSU AD) to pay him the Big 12 average (he was the lowest paid coach in the league). Holder refused, so Underwood bailed. That's a pretty popular story on OSU/Big 12 related message boards.

Illinois is paying a LOT of money for a guy that hasn't quite proven that level of worth, IMO. I think Underwood's a very good coach, but they made him Top 10 paid in the country after a surprise Sweet 16 at a mid-major, and a nice little revival at a P5 school.

Thanks for the info! All things being equal, probably easier to win year after year at OSU than Illinois, especially with an ascendant Northwestern becoming more attractive to recruits in state, so the big payday makes the most sense for him going there

Interested to see who Indiana hires

ETA: I totally forgot McDermott coached at Ames. I thought Eustachy was replaced by Hoiberg, but just looked it up and I was way off. And for the record, I've never even heard of Wayne Morgan, and I'm a hoops junkie

Of course tripling his salary was the main thing. However Illinois is is thought to be the better job in general. And there was already bad blood between he and Holder. Holder had jumped is ass already this season for leaving the lights on at the practice facility occasionally. He had asked for 2 more treadmills in the training room and Holder turned him down. Then when he went to negotiate a new contract before the Illini offer Holder told him "Fordš first year was better than yours anyway""
Illinois calls, He bolts.

I hadn't heard that angle. If I were a Pokes fan, I'd be wanting Holder's head on a stick.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

Fun Fact: UNC beat a Wayne Morgan coached ISU team en route to the 2005 National title.

I certainly remember beating ISU but couldn't have named Wayne Morgan to save my life

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

However Illinois is is thought to be the better job in general.

Really? I would have thought the opposite, though I didn't know all the stuff you guys have offered about the AD at OSU.

[Iowan]

I don't know that Illinois vs. Okie State is all that different. Both are programs in rural midwestern college towns that are decent drives from the nearest big cities that have enjoyed some high profile, but not sustained, success in recent memories and have been known to have great home-court advantage when they're good. Both programs are within 5 hours of Top 5 metro areas in the US.

I fail to see a significant difference from the outside.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

I don't know that Illinois vs. Okie State is all that different. Both are programs in rural midwestern college towns that are decent drives from the nearest big cities that have enjoyed some high profile, but not sustained, success in recent memories and have been known to have great home-court advantage when they're good. Both programs are within 5 hours of Top 5 metro areas in the US.

I fail to see a significant difference from the outside.

I'm probably wrong, but just using the eyeball test, I would have thought OSU was closer to the top of its league year after year than Illinois is. That said, I'm not saying I think OSU is significantly ahead, just that I think they are ahead of Illinois. Unlike the Fonz, I can admit to being wrong


Georgetown fired JT3 today

[Cubfan06]

However Illinois is is thought to be the better job in general.

Really? I would have thought the opposite, though I didn't know all the stuff you guys have offered about the AD at OSU.

Illinois should be more relevant than what they currently are. The past two hires have been lackluster Johnny Come Lately mid-major coaches in John Groce and Bruce Weber. Before those two the U of I coaching job was a great springboard position for Lou Henson, Lon Kruger, and Bill Self. I'd argue that with similar conditions, the Illinois job could and should be in the top half of the Big Ten, which perennially one could successfully argue is the second best basketball conference in the nation. You have two hot beds of prospects to pull from in state if you can be successful. Chicago is less than three hours away. Peoria, where U of I, has been most successful in during the past decade and a half, is only 45 minutes away. Rockford is a shit city, but does have some good prospects. And the North Shore of Lake Michigan has a history of producing great outside shooting prospects.
People seem to be pretty excited about Underwood. I'm unsure. They do have a good recruiting class coming in if it holds. If Underwood can establish early returns and credibility, that program has a really high ceiling.

At this juncture, they are behind Northwestern and arguably my alma mater, Illinois State.