Polar Vortex wtf???

[beantownbubba]

A tale of 2 snowstorms:

The first one dumped well over a foot of snow on the area. The snow started falling mid-morning so the plows were able to start clearing the roads well before rush hour. Many businesses let out early, starting at about 2 and I think govt offices closed at 3 (give or take). My wife left her downtown office at about 5:30 and got home more quickly than she usually does and she usually leaves after rush hour.

The second storm was a lot smaller. Most areas got only 3 or 4 inches despite much more dire predictions. But the storm started at about 3 or 4 pm, the plows couldn't plow before rush hour and businesses & govt offices had no reason to close early because the snow didn't start til so late in the day. My wife left her office at about 6:30 and got home at close to 9. It took her 1.5 hours to go the 5 blocks from her office to the highway. 1.5 hours. That's about a 5 hour per mile pace (NOT 5 miles per hour!!!). In a northeastern snow belt city in a snow "storm" that dropped less than 5 inches on the city & immediate surrounding areas.

[Zip City]

The only two car accidents I've ever been involved in were both on I-80 in Pennsylvania and were both caused by sheet ice on the highway. In the second one, I ended up in the ditch (after a couple of full spins), and in the hour between the accident and getting pulled out, not a single salt truck came by. Consequently, several other cars ended up in the ditch during that hour.

So to add onto what beantown said, the north fails at snowstorms as well

[RolanK]

Same shit happens over here where I live every year. First few inches (centimeters) of snow and it's complete chaos. People are taken by complete surprise and act like they never knew that after autumn comes winter which brings snow and ice. Worst are the transport companies, busses etc. You would kind of assume that in organizations certified with quality control and management systems they had routines for checking the weather forecast and have people prepare the organization for what's coming. But apparently not.

Accidents happen and people die. It's very sad it has to be this way, but I guess it's only human not being able to fully draw lessons from past experience. Proves that collective memory is probably something less than 12 months.

[John A Arkansawyer]

I love the heat , actually. The cold can suck my balls. I'd move to hotter climes in a heartbeat if the opportunity presented itself. Ohio winters can pound sand

I have to agree with this. It's the one big reason I've never seriously considered moving to Chicago. I kinda like hundred, hundred-five degree weather. I used to run in it on my lunch break when I worked in Tulsa. When it's getting toward freezing? I am one miserable puppy.

I am pretty tough, but that's not really the point. I have the gear for it....All that stuff is so expensive. SO expensive. If I had to deal with a snow storm, for a few days, every five years, I wouldn't have any of it, because why would I want to spend thousands of dollars on stuff I don't really need the vast majority of the time? If that were the case, I'd be struggling too.

When I was in my late teens and early twenties, I went out into the cold more than once--think long hitchhiking trips where I was out in the open all night--and I probably nearly died a time or two. The only thing that saved me was layering. I didn't have the right gear other than good footwear and gloves. The worst was the time in the '81-'82 winter when I was headed up to Des Moines. Around two a guy headed there picked me up just north of St. Joe, Missouri. I'd had truck stop chili earlier and started farting. I had to hold them in or be put back out into the cold. It was a useful life lesson in more ways than one.

It didn't take moving south to figure out the whole "winter storm cripples city" thing, all it took was the ice storm of 2011 which affected so many folks travels to Homecoming that year.

All that said, I'm pretty good at maneuvering on and around slick surfaces. I tried (and I think I succeeded) not to laugh as people went down getting to and from the Daze. That was tricky terrain, but not that tricky.

This situation apparently affected a guitarist/songwriter Birmingham native of all of our acquaintance yesterday as well so I'm pretty sure he's not laughing. We were in Little Rock in December and it was the same situation, although they being further north were a little more prepared and salted the main roads.

When I lived in Birmingham, one day I made the drive from Five Points (where I lived) to the Colonnade (where I worked) when there was just a little tiny bit of snow (from my point of view--I drive on the crap well enough and luckily enough to have never yet had a wreck or a ditching, though I've gotten stuck parking a time or five) on 280. The road was, like, deserted. Which is probably why I don't get into wrecks--if it's real crowded, I don't get out into it. And I left a little early from the Whitewater here in December out of weather nervousness.

The snow started falling mid-morning so the plows were able to start clearing the roads well before rush hour. Many businesses let out early, starting at about 2 and I think govt offices closed at 3 (give or take).

We used to have a sensible policy where I work. When the Little Rock school district was closed, so were we. Now, in the interest of efficiency--one of the many faces of Moloch--we evaluate (how? damifino) whether to close. Last time, that resulted in a lot of people who don't live nearby making the trip in, only to find that we'd decided to close outside the window between the school district closing (which they do sensibly early) and our decision. I suspect that'll be used as evidence we shouldn't have closed after all. Moloch the heavy judger of men! (Women, too.)

[psychobillycadillac]

Georgia born and raised here, I work in Alpharetta which is due north of Atlanta by about 25ish miles and live in Canton which is due west from work in a more rural horse and farm community, I say that just to establish where I'm coming from with what I'm about to say. The basics have already been discussed, the storm came on fast and students and professionals left schools and offices in mass creating a huge ammount of cars and busses on the roads. The local city and state government systems didn't have a plan to get people safely home, in part due to a lack of equipment but to be honest in a culture where global warming has become acceptable truth I'd like to see someone run here on a political ticket based upon buying more winter emergency equipment with tax dollars. The other side being no one wanted to be the politician that cried wolf and get caught with egg on their face by sending workers and students home due to a cold snap.
Many people were stuck in their cars due to a variety of reasons 1) people came from their offices where they were dressed for work, suits and skirts, dress shoes and high heels. Many professionals from the city didn't have the kind of clothes that you could walk in for several miles in freezing temps and after dark.
2) People were not able to get off the highways and to a place where they could leave their cars in part due to accidents blocking the roads, ice frozen roads that became impassable and a lack of willingness for people to abandon their cars.
I hope people keep in mind that the snow was not was kept people from getting home, it was the ice. The roads froze and made it nearly impossible to drive on until they began to thaw yesterday. 4 wheel drive certainly helped but if you had bad and old tires then you were left with four wheels spinning independtly of one another.
Finally and I'm sure to take heat for this one but I hope people keep in mind that nearly 4 out of every 5 people you talk to in Atlanta and the surrounding suburbs are NOT from here. Most people living here moved here from the North, on my team of 10 sales people here at work I'm so far the only one who made it into the office and the other 9 come from Chicago, New Jersey, Rochester, Cleveland and Philadelphia. To be fair though I've been everywhere man and have driven in the mountain air man, crossed the frozen tundra man and done donuts in iced over parking lots ever since I was old enough to reach the pedals man.

[Smitty]

http://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/Jan ... ign=Chimag

Values of radial ice thickness measured on telegraph wires averaged between 0.6 (Northwest and upper Midwest) and 1.6 cm (South). Maximum ice values ranged from 3.9 (upper Midwest and Northwest) to 5.4 cm (South), and 75% of all ice thickness values were 2 cm or less. The various measures of ice thickness, as a measure of damaging conditions, reveal that the risk of damaging ice is greatest in the South and southern plains, closely followed by the threat in the Northeast and New England.

[njMark]

How does this continue to happen? Its 2014? How can cities/states claim ignorance or an overwhelming of resources? It may not happen alot but it has happened before. Not trying to knock anyone, I just don't understand how this can still happen.

[Smitty]

How does this continue to happen? Its 2014? How can cities/states claim ignorance or an overwhelming of resources? It may not happen alot but it has happened before. Not trying to knock anyone, I just don't understand how this can still happen.

Well, in Birmingham's case, the lack of resources is legitimate and the local, trusted forecasters totally fucked up. It was kindof a "boy who cried wolf" situation. The little resources they had were sent to southern counties where the storm was supposed to be more severe.
As far as not understanding how shit like this can happen in 2014, it's a legitimate question that could probably be applied different but comparable scenarios in most any state/local gov't.

[psychobillycadillac]

How does this continue to happen? Its 2014? How can cities/states claim ignorance or an overwhelming of resources? It may not happen alot but it has happened before. Not trying to knock anyone, I just don't understand how this can still happen.

Well, in Birmingham's case, the lack of resources is legitimate and the local, trusted forecasters totally fucked up. It was kindof a "boy who cried wolf" situation. The little resources they had were sent to southern counties where the storm was supposed to be more severe.
As far as not understanding how shit like this can happen in 2014, it's a legitimate question that could probably be applied different but comparable scenarios in most any state/local gov't.

Agreed, and like I said before I'd like someone to show me the politician w/ the balls to run on a "we need more snow plows" ballot here in the south. This will continue to happen in situations like this and others simillar to it until people learn to stop relying on the government to take care of them and begin to take care of themselves.

[beantownbubba]

Agreed, and like I said before I'd like someone to show me the politician w/ the balls to run on a "we need more snow plows" ballot here in the south. This will continue to happen in situations like this and others simillar to it until people learn to stop relying on the government to take care of them and begin to take care of themselves.

Can you please explain that? This would seem to be one of those situations that government is supposed to be made for - problems that affect everyone that no single person or group of persons can address. While people can try to stay off the roads more (maybe - a lot depends on circumstance), learn to drive better in bad conditions and make sure their tires are in good shape who is supposed to plow the roads, provide shelter and food for those w/out power/heat, direct traffic, remove multi-car wrecks/accidents from the roads, impose an orderly "evacuation" of downtown areas, etc? This is not rhetorical, I'd really like to understand how these situations can best be handled by individual action.

[psychobillycadillac]

BTB I agree that evacuation plans exist for a reason and it doesn't take much to know that they weren't followed in this case. My quip about a politician running on a "snow plows now" ticket here in Georgia is made in jest because by the time the politicians get back on the campaign train this will be mostly forgotten and anyone asking Georgia voters to spend more tax money on snow plows will be considered crazy since we so rarely get this type of weather here. To further grind my axe here, it boils down to human nature wanting to find a scapegoat to place the blame on in order to gain and understanding and then closure of a situation. My biggest point is that people should take responsibility for their own well being and take steps to preserve their well being, don't rely on Government to take care of you. My wife and I both listented to the weather forecasts, saw the reports of areas west of us getting hit, knew it was headed our way and left work early to get the kids and get home before the roads froze over. We didn't need a government official to tell us when we could leave work or when we were allowed to go get our kids, we took responsibility for the well being of our family and got home before things got bad.

[beantownbubba]

BTB I agree that evacuation plans exist for a reason and it doesn't take much to know that they weren't followed in this case. My quip about a politician running on a "snow plows now" ticket here in Georgia is made in jest because by the time the politicians get back on the campaign train this will be mostly forgotten and anyone asking Georgia voters to spend more tax money on snow plows will be considered crazy since we so rarely get this type of weather here. To further grind my axe here, it boils down to human nature wanting to find a scapegoat to place the blame on in order to gain and understanding and then closure of a situation. My biggest point is that people should take responsibility for their own well being and take steps to preserve their well being, don't rely on Government to take care of you. My wife and I both listented to the weather forecasts, saw the reports of areas west of us getting hit, knew it was headed our way and left work early to get the kids and get home before the roads froze over. We didn't need a government official to tell us when we could leave work or when we were allowed to go get our kids, we took responsibility for the well being of our family and got home before things got bad.

I certainly agree with you (as a matter of general experience, not specific knowledge) that attempting to get enough of the right equipment into any budget for a contingency that might not occur for a decade or more is a non-starter. And I appreciate what you're saying about your own actions and that others should follow suit. It's not a bad principle. But what if everyone did what you did when you did it? Perhaps all y'all would have beaten the storm, there would have been no traffic tie-ups and everyone would have been home safe and sound when the worst hit. Or there might have been a massive traffic jam, catching everyone on the highway when the storm hit, making things at least as bad as they turned out to be, or close to it (depending on a whole host of factors nobody can predict).

[psychobillycadillac]

BTB I agree that evacuation plans exist for a reason and it doesn't take much to know that they weren't followed in this case. My quip about a politician running on a "snow plows now" ticket here in Georgia is made in jest because by the time the politicians get back on the campaign train this will be mostly forgotten and anyone asking Georgia voters to spend more tax money on snow plows will be considered crazy since we so rarely get this type of weather here. To further grind my axe here, it boils down to human nature wanting to find a scapegoat to place the blame on in order to gain and understanding and then closure of a situation. My biggest point is that people should take responsibility for their own well being and take steps to preserve their well being, don't rely on Government to take care of you. My wife and I both listented to the weather forecasts, saw the reports of areas west of us getting hit, knew it was headed our way and left work early to get the kids and get home before the roads froze over. We didn't need a government official to tell us when we could leave work or when we were allowed to go get our kids, we took responsibility for the well being of our family and got home before things got bad.

I certainly agree with you (as a matter of general experience, not specific knowledge) that attempting to get enough of the right equipment into any budget for a contingency that might not occur for a decade or more is a non-starter. And I appreciate what you're saying about your own actions and that others should follow suit. It's not a bad principle. But what if everyone did what you did when you did it? Perhaps all y'all would have beaten the storm, there would have been no traffic tie-ups and everyone would have been home safe and sound when the worst hit. Or there might have been a massive traffic jam, catching everyone on the highway when the storm hit, making things at least as bad as they turned out to be, or close to it (depending on a whole host of factors nobody can predict).

I hear ya BTB, it's a bit of a no-win situation or a damned if you do or don't as it's easy to speculate now looking back on how things could have been different. From my chair they should have cancelled classes for the day, the forecast had shifted overnight and the areas to be affected by the storm had moved far north of the city. I can understand that no one wants to be the one who cries wolf and nothing happens but lets look at which situation is more forgivable from a professional and personal stance, the one like we are in now or the one where you can say I took the steps I saw as necessary to best protect your children? Again I feel bad for anyone stuck out there in that mess, it was a cluster f*ck and I'm glad it wasn't worse.

[beantownbubba]

At least some of the pics I saw from AL & GA showed one side of a highway gridlocked while the other was literally or virtually empty. Got me to wondering: How hard would it be to reverse the flow of the empty side and how long would it take before the spin outs, fender benders, etc turned it into a parking lot, too.

W/ modern communications including cellphones, radio and programmable highway signs it seems like it would be do-able w/ an acceptable amount of personpower. I figure you'd have to do it express for a long stretch - you couldn't have people getting off at every exit. But once you blocked off every entrance/exit you'd mostly need police to guide people off the gridlocked side, on to the emergency side and then off the emergency side and back to the presumably now flowing correct side. You also would want to enforce a pretty low speed limit to keep accidents to a minimum but given the conditions it shouldn't take a lot of cops to make that happen. In a situation w/ 14 hour backups it seems like there'd be time to put this together in an orderly way. Anyway that's my thought for the morning...

[njMark]

To be fair, I've lived here for 37 years and their are plenty, plenty of people who can't handle driving in snow so I don't mean to claim foul weather superiority. I recall homecoming a few years back with the ice storm that hit Atlanta and it seemed to mirror this recent storm in regards to the chaos/unpreparedness of local and state governments. Well here in NJ we like to create our traffic jams out of whole cloth because somebody gave our Gov a case of the dads. So I guess things are actually worse here, at least mother nature caused the chaos down there.

[Clams]

It's finally warmed up here. Temps going to 50 the last few days, so the snow's finally melting. But guess what???? Another 4 inches due tomorrow!!!

[Iowan]

It's finally warmed up here. Temps going to 50 the last few days, so the snow's finally melting. But guess what???? Another 4 inches due tomorrow!!!

We've seen the north side of 20 maybe twice in the past month.

Ugh.

[Zip City]

It's melting here today, but it's nothing but ugly for the foreseeable future. Winter can suck it

[Clams]

Fuck you, Phil

[Clams]

Meanwhile out west....

Severe Drought Has U.S. West Fearing Worst

LOS ANGELES — The punishing drought that has swept California is now threatening the state’s drinking water supply.

With no sign of rain, 17 rural communities providing water to 40,000 people are in danger of running out within 60 to 120 days. State officials said that the number was likely to rise in the months ahead after the State Water Project, the main municipal water distribution system, announced on Friday that it did not have enough water to supplement the dwindling supplies of local agencies that provide water to an additional 25 million people. It is first time the project has turned off its spigot in its 54-year history.

State officials said they were moving to put emergency plans in place. In the worst case, they said drinking water would have to be brought by truck into parched communities and additional wells would have to be drilled to draw on groundwater. The deteriorating situation would likely mean imposing mandatory water conservation measures on homeowners and businesses, who have already been asked to voluntarily reduce their water use by 20 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/02/us/se ... st.html?hp

[4sooner]

The first of 3 winter storms in the next 5 days moved in here this morning. Got a layer of sleet about 6 this morning then 3-6" predicted for this first one. Another blows in Tuesday then the biggest of the 3 Thurs/Fri. I have a 4Wd truck and live in a fairly small town so it's really no big deal for us. I drive a total of about 5 miles to work, 4bride less than that. Only about 2 miles from high school but it'll be closed tomorrow anyway. Okc seems to be fairly well prepared too though. Here in ok we have to be prepared for all the wild weather swings. Our temp hits 100-110 every summer, with at least a few stretches like this every year. Back when I was able to run every day I would always try to log runs in temps from 0-100 every year.
Super Bowl=Roaring fire, jack & water, baked pork chops, a whole day inside with The Soonerette. Looking forward to it.

[beantownbubba]

Meanwhile out west....

Severe Drought Has U.S. West Fearing Worst

LOS ANGELES — The punishing drought that has swept California is now threatening the state’s drinking water supply.

With no sign of rain, 17 rural communities providing water to 40,000 people are in danger of running out within 60 to 120 days. State officials said that the number was likely to rise in the months ahead after the State Water Project, the main municipal water distribution system, announced on Friday that it did not have enough water to supplement the dwindling supplies of local agencies that provide water to an additional 25 million people. It is first time the project has turned off its spigot in its 54-year history.

State officials said they were moving to put emergency plans in place. In the worst case, they said drinking water would have to be brought by truck into parched communities and additional wells would have to be drilled to draw on groundwater. The deteriorating situation would likely mean imposing mandatory water conservation measures on homeowners and businesses, who have already been asked to voluntarily reduce their water use by 20 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/02/us/se ... st.html?hp

IT'S A FUCKING DESERT, PEOPLE!!! Why not start by making green lawns and golf courses illegal unless they use their own water source?

[njMark]

Meanwhile out west....

Severe Drought Has U.S. West Fearing Worst

LOS ANGELES — The punishing drought that has swept California is now threatening the state’s drinking water supply.

With no sign of rain, 17 rural communities providing water to 40,000 people are in danger of running out within 60 to 120 days. State officials said that the number was likely to rise in the months ahead after the State Water Project, the main municipal water distribution system, announced on Friday that it did not have enough water to supplement the dwindling supplies of local agencies that provide water to an additional 25 million people. It is first time the project has turned off its spigot in its 54-year history.

State officials said they were moving to put emergency plans in place. In the worst case, they said drinking water would have to be brought by truck into parched communities and additional wells would have to be drilled to draw on groundwater. The deteriorating situation would likely mean imposing mandatory water conservation measures on homeowners and businesses, who have already been asked to voluntarily reduce their water use by 20 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/02/us/se ... st.html?hp

IT'S A FUCKING DESERT, PEOPLE!!! Why not start by making green lawns and golf courses illegal unless they use their own water source?

cause 'murica BTB, cause 'murica.

[psychobillycadillac]

it was in the 70's here in Georgia yesterday, someone needs to stage an intervention for Mother Nature cuz that bitch is seriously messed up on something bad.

[grapico]

IT'S A FUCKING DESERT, PEOPLE!!! Why not start by making green lawns and golf courses illegal unless they use their own water source?

Yep X 1000000. It amazes me the number of people on the front range in Colorado that plant Kentucky bluegrass in their yard because that's what they had back East. And they are constantly fighting over water.

[Clams]

We got vortexed with 6"of wet slushy snow today and we're supposed to get vortexed again tomorrow with another 4-8" plus there's something else on the the horizon for the weekend.

[bovine knievel]

IT'S A FUCKING DESERT, PEOPLE!!! Why not start by making green lawns and golf courses illegal unless they use their own water source?

Having their own source isn't necessarily ok, BTB. That usually means pumping of groundwater and here in California that is unregulated. Here's a pic from the San Joaquin Valley showing the subsidence from aquifer compaction (1925 - 1977).

[beantownbubba]

Geez I was just trying to be nice, lol. Besides, depending on exactly where we're talking about, saying you can rely on groundwater is the same as saying you can't do it (that is, anything green) at all, especially for big commercial uses like golf courses. That's why they call it a desert.

Yeah, Clams I'm feeling your pain: Too much snow to leave as is, too little to be able to use the snow blower. I fucking HATE shoveling. And I'm not too happy w/ winter, either.

[Zip City]

[Clams]

So... wicked ice storm yesterday. Trees and wires down everywhere. We've been lucky but power is out to more homes in my township than in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy. Schools were closed Monday and Wednesday and again today. Well at least they're backing off from the "megastorm" predictions for this weekend.