MLB 2018
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- Sterling Bigmouth
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Re: MLB 2018
Molina checks all the boxes that old school baseball writers and commentators love. Durable, sizable counting stats, Gold Gloves, World Series champ, part of a baseball family, etc. I don’t think he should make it, but I won’t surprised when if he does.
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- Tequila Cowboy
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Re: MLB 2018
Nope, me neither. I think he gets in.Sterling Bigmouth wrote:Molina checks all the boxes that old school baseball writers and commentators love. Durable, sizable counting stats, Gold Gloves, World Series champ, part of a baseball family, etc. I don’t think he should make it, but I won’t surprised when if he does.
We call him Scooby Do, but Scooby doesn’t do. Scooby, is not involved
Re: MLB 2018
His career fWAR is barely 60% of a baseline Hall of Famer. In 15 years he’s not even at 2000 hits. It’s like everyone has been drinking crazy juice.Tequila Cowboy wrote:Almost every baseball analyst I listen to, and I listen to a lot of them, think he's a lock. I don't see it. He was an incredible defender for a long time but as a hitter he's a lifetime 100 wRC+ there's nothing there that screams HoF to me.Zip City wrote:Buster Olney had a Twitter poll up asking if Yadier Molina was a first-ballot HoFer, a HoFer, or not a HoFer. The majority of the voters said A or B. What is this madness? Molina isn't close to sniffing the Hall of Fame on any level, but there is this narrative about him being some transcendent player.
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Re: MLB 2018
I think the answer's somewhere in here.Sterling Bigmouth wrote:Molina checks all the boxes that old school baseball writers and commentators love. Durable, sizable counting stats, Gold Gloves, World Series champ, part of a baseball family, etc. I don’t think he should make it, but I won’t surprised when if he does.
All opinions and commentary in my posts are solely my own and are made in my personal capacity.
- Shakespeare
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Re: MLB 2018
the hall (or more accurately the voters, but also stuff like joe morgans terrible letter, written under the guise of being an offical hall stance) has almost completely finished killing my interest in the entire institution to be honest. maybe the new class of voters will redeem it a bit but its been a while since ive cared enough to even debate who should or shouldnt be in. i never made it to cooperstown as a kid and i have a hard time imagining it as a worthwhile trip for me now, which is a shame
Re: MLB 2018
Molina's career stats (through 2017):
fWAR: 35.7 (397th all-time)
Hits: 1730 (428 all-time)
HR: 126 (646th all-time)
RBI: 785 (508th all-time)
I could go on and on, but I don't think there are enough gold gloves or neck tattoos to make up for these pedestrian offensive numbers.
As a frame of reference, Mike Trout (at age 26) has a career fWAR of 56.8. Players like Ben Zobrist, Ian Kinsler and Russell Martin have higher career fWAR #s than Molina. He is exceedingly below average
fWAR: 35.7 (397th all-time)
Hits: 1730 (428 all-time)
HR: 126 (646th all-time)
RBI: 785 (508th all-time)
I could go on and on, but I don't think there are enough gold gloves or neck tattoos to make up for these pedestrian offensive numbers.
As a frame of reference, Mike Trout (at age 26) has a career fWAR of 56.8. Players like Ben Zobrist, Ian Kinsler and Russell Martin have higher career fWAR #s than Molina. He is exceedingly below average
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Re: MLB 2018
If he isn’t a lock, then hater is the only catcher who has a chance. If you don’t think Buster is a lock, then fuck off.
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Re: MLB 2018
Buster has a ways to go in his career compared to YadiLBRod wrote:If he isn’t a lock, then hater is the only catcher who has a chance. If you don’t think Buster is a lock, then fuck off.
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Re: MLB 2018
That Mookie Betts guy can play a little.
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- Sterling Bigmouth
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Re: MLB 2018
Just in case I don’t get to say it again all season: it feels nice going to bed with the Braves 1st place in the East
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- Tequila Cowboy
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Re: MLB 2018
Oh, you might say it a few more times if the Mets lose deGrom. Hard to see the Nats not putting it together eventually but that’s a tough division all of a sudden.Sterling Bigmouth wrote:Just in case I don’t get to say it again all season: it feels nice going to bed with the Braves 1st place in the East
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- Tequila Cowboy
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Re: MLB 2018
Oh, and Giants fans? I'd be getting familiar with the Braves farm system if I were you. Bumgarner looks like a hell of a fit there in a deadline trade...
We call him Scooby Do, but Scooby doesn’t do. Scooby, is not involved
Re: MLB 2018
Hater was supposed to be Buster, and I believe they are both sure thing Hall of Fame players.Zip City wrote:Buster has a ways to go in his career compared to YadiLBRod wrote:If he isn’t a lock, then hater is the only catcher who has a chance. If you don’t think Buster is a lock, then fuck off.
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff.
Re: MLB 2018
Not so fast, TC. Los Gigantes are over .500, and having fun. This season has a long way to go.Tequila Cowboy wrote:Oh, and Giants fans? I'd be getting familiar with the Braves farm system if I were you. Bumgarner looks like a hell of a fit there in a deadline trade...
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff.
Re: MLB 2018
You think they're both "sure things" based on talent or based on the voters?LBRod wrote:Hater was supposed to be Buster, and I believe they are both sure thing Hall of Fame players.Zip City wrote:Buster has a ways to go in his career compared to YadiLBRod wrote:If he isn’t a lock, then hater is the only catcher who has a chance. If you don’t think Buster is a lock, then fuck off.
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- Shakespeare
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Re: MLB 2018
writings been on the wall for a few years but ichiros dont-call-it-retirement is a bummer. probably my favorite player that never played on the team i root for. ive got no interest in debating him vs rose or anything, its just remarkable what ichiro accomplished
Re: MLB 2018
Based on being the dominant players at their position for years.Zip City wrote: You think they're both "sure things" based on talent or based on the voters?
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- Tequila Cowboy
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Re: MLB 2018
I get it but they're a long shot to begin with and if Cueto is lost the jig is up. I won't squash your joy though, although if it were me I'd have more joy over rebuilding with prospects anyway.LBRod wrote:Not so fast, TC. Los Gigantes are over .500, and having fun. This season has a long way to go.Tequila Cowboy wrote:Oh, and Giants fans? I'd be getting familiar with the Braves farm system if I were you. Bumgarner looks like a hell of a fit there in a deadline trade...
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Re: MLB 2018
I dont know if i have a personal category called favorite player not on a team i root for* but basically, yeah. A great player, great for the game and incredibly fun to watch.Shakespeare wrote:writings been on the wall for a few years but ichiros dont-call-it-retirement is a bummer. probably my favorite player that never played on the team i root for. ive got no interest in debating him vs rose or anything, its just remarkable what ichiro accomplished
* I know i don't literally think about it that way but i've undoubtedly had players that would fit that description. First there were Sandy Koufax and Willie Mays but that was also tied up w/ their ny roots so i don't know if they count. But Roberto Clemente and Hank Aaron probably filled that role and there have been others since.
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Re: MLB 2018
Looking at qualified catchers over Molina's career, he ranks 5th in fWAR (easily the best defensively, and easily the worst offensively). Mauer, Posey, Martin and McCann rank ahead of himLBRod wrote:Based on being the dominant players at their position for years.Zip City wrote: You think they're both "sure things" based on talent or based on the voters?
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Re: MLB 2018
You keep reading stats, I'll keep watching baseball.
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Re: MLB 2018
Quoted for pithiness.LBRod wrote:You keep reading stats, I'll keep watching baseball.
All opinions and commentary in my posts are solely my own and are made in my personal capacity.
Re: MLB 2018
To quote Obi-Wan Kenobi on this Star Wars Day: "Your eyes deceive you, don't trust them."LBRod wrote:You keep reading stats, I'll keep watching baseball.
But seriously, Molina is (was) an elite defensive catcher who was below average offensively. Does that make him an Ozzie Smith-esque addition to the Hall? Maybe. Do we reward players who are elite at one aspect of the game while middling/bad at others admission to the Hall? This question will come up more and more as we look at career designated-hitters as well.
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- Shakespeare
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Re: MLB 2018
i dont have a strong take on molinas merits in particular (beyond thinking he will get in as a writers darling) but considering the lowered bar for offensive production by a catcher and the inconsistent (at best) nature of defensive stats, im not sure WAR is a helpful argument
- Tequila Cowboy
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Re: MLB 2018
I think we are going to see that more and more. As someone that believes in a smaller, more exclusive HoF I don't love it but it is reality. Omar Vizquel got 37% on his first ballot and is considered a mortal lock to get to the 75% before his eligibility is up. I wouldn't put him in and I assume you wouldn't either.Zip City wrote:To quote Obi-Wan Kenobi on this Star Wars Day: "Your eyes deceive you, don't trust them."LBRod wrote:You keep reading stats, I'll keep watching baseball.
But seriously, Molina is (was) an elite defensive catcher who was below average offensively. Does that make him an Ozzie Smith-esque addition to the Hall? Maybe. Do we reward players who are elite at one aspect of the game while middling/bad at others admission to the Hall? This question will come up more and more as we look at career designated-hitters as well.
We call him Scooby Do, but Scooby doesn’t do. Scooby, is not involved
Re: MLB 2018
I agree, defensive metrics are a mess, but even so, defensive WAR has Molina lapping the field compared to his contemporaries. His offensive metrics (that are more easily quantifiable) say he’s not great at the plate.Shakespeare wrote:i dont have a strong take on molinas merits in particular (beyond thinking he will get in as a writers darling) but considering the lowered bar for offensive production by a catcher and the inconsistent (at best) nature of defensive stats, im not sure WAR is a helpful argument
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- Shakespeare
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Re: MLB 2018
kinda funny that for what i imagine will be a fairly divisive candidate, the eye test and the advanced metrics pretty much agree on what molina is, the only difference being whether that warrants inductionZip City wrote:I agree, defensive metrics are a mess, but even so, defensive WAR has Molina lapping the field compared to his contemporaries. His offensive metrics (that are more easily quantifiable) say he’s not great at the plate.Shakespeare wrote:i dont have a strong take on molinas merits in particular (beyond thinking he will get in as a writers darling) but considering the lowered bar for offensive production by a catcher and the inconsistent (at best) nature of defensive stats, im not sure WAR is a helpful argument
- whatwouldcooleydo?
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- Shakespeare
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Re: MLB 2018
matt harvey DFA'd by the mets. refused a minor league assignment.
what a sad fall from grace thats been
what a sad fall from grace thats been
- Tequila Cowboy
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Re: MLB 2018
Hard for me to feel sorry for Harvey or the Mets who seem to have no idea how to handle pitchers from an organizational standpoint, despite hiring two experts on the subject in Callaway and pitching coach Dan Warthen.Shakespeare wrote:matt harvey DFA'd by the mets. refused a minor league assignment.
what a sad fall from grace thats been
We call him Scooby Do, but Scooby doesn’t do. Scooby, is not involved