Tequila Cowboy wrote:

Cubfan06 wrote:
You know I'm not a "hot take" sort of guy when it comes to Cubs baseball. (At least I think you believe that I am not) I'm not ready to give up on Schwarber offensively for a life time, just because the guy is hitting .177. That said, even when I had expected a better average from him my thought process has remained consistent that he is a primarily a future DH.
Just a kind retort in regards to Schwarber moving from a one tool player to a two tool player. In order for him to be considered a two tool player, his batting average would need to be greater than the mean, correct? The all time mean for batting average has been between .260 and .275. At what batting average, would you then consider him to have reached two tool player status assuming he doesn't lose his power in the process?
If there is still a market for him as the centerpiece in a Sonny Gray trade, I'd like to see the Cubs do it and expedite Schwarber's track as a career DH.

At this juncture already, I'd already consider the 23 year old Almora Jr. to be a three tool player.(Batting Average, Fielding, and Throwing ability) I'd simply like to see him have the chance to be better established.

Whereas I have never thought he had to be a DH. I think he can be just below average in LF and I think he's going to end up a very similar hitter to Rizzo and that's who Theo compares him to when asked. I get that Rizzo was never as bad for a full season as Schwarber is now but after a hot start in 360 PA in 2012 and a crazy 178 wRC+ he came back in 2013 and struggled with a 105 wRC+. Schwarber has a absolutely terrible wRC+ at 82 but if he bounces back and gets over league average of 100 can't you yu compare him to Rizzo? As much as I love Schwarber though and believe in his future I would move him in the right deal, but Gray isn't it. I'd consider Schwarber and Russell for Archer in the offseason and I think that would probably get that done and make both teams better for it. Tampa is just entering a window and their biggest need are hitters with high OBP. Now before you bring up his .297 OBP this year that itself is remarkable given his .177 BA and 28.6% K rate, but he also sports a remarkable 13.4% walk rate. Again I think .290/.390/.600 is his ceiling and with his defensive deficiencies he'd probably top out in the 5-5.5 fWAR range. Again I have no crystal ball but this kid still hasn't played the equivelent of a season in MLB ball. All assets should be considered in possible trade and I'd move him but only for an elite pitcher.

Is it possible that Schwarber could eventually grow into Anthony Rizzo's offensive numbers? It's possible I guess. He has a long way to go. If he does than he would be a two tool player. He will never have the same impact in the NL that Anthony Rizzo has, since after all Rizzo was the DPOTY last year and is a consistent gold glove candidate.

Cubfan06 wrote:Is it possible that Schwarber could eventually grow into Anthony Rizzo's offensive numbers? It's possible I guess. He has a long way to go. If he does than he would be a two tool player. He will never have the same impact in the NL that Anthony Rizzo has, since after all Rizzo was the DPOTY last year and is a consistent gold glove candidate.

Rizzo is a good defender but because he plays 1B he's always a negative defender in terms of fWAR so his value is also primarily offensive. I don't necessarily agree with that and I think defensive stats have a ways to go yet but it is what it is.

Here's a crazy one for you; today marks the 5,000 game in a row where the starting pitcher for the Tampa Bay Rays is under 30 years old.

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Here's a crazy one for you; today marks the 5,000 game in a row where the starting pitcher for the Tampa Bay Rays is under 30 years old.

Does this include David Price or Steve Shields? I thought Price was a Devil Ray/Ray for a long while- '08 Series and then some.

211poundsofpork wrote:

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Here's a crazy one for you; today marks the 5,000 game in a row where the starting pitcher for the Tampa Bay Rays is under 30 years old.

Does this include David Price or Steve Shields? I thought Price was a Devil Ray/Ray for a long while- '08 Series and then some.

I think you mean James Shields, but yeah it includes both. They were under 30 when the played there.

Tequila Cowboy wrote:

211poundsofpork wrote:

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Here's a crazy one for you; today marks the 5,000 game in a row where the starting pitcher for the Tampa Bay Rays is under 30 years old.

Does this include David Price or Steve Shields? I thought Price was a Devil Ray/Ray for a long while- '08 Series and then some.

I think you mean James Shields, but yeah it includes both. They were under 30 when the played there.

James. Thanks for the correction, TC. It is believable to me that Price WAS under 30 before he was gone because didn't he start his career rather early?

211poundsofpork wrote: James. Thanks for the correction, TC. It is believable to me that Price WAS under 30 before he was gone because didn't he start his career rather early?

He did, without looking maybe 20? But he's only 31 now and he's been out of Tampa Bay for three years.

Tequila Cowboy wrote:

211poundsofpork wrote: James. Thanks for the correction, TC. It is believable to me that Price WAS under 30 before he was gone because didn't he start his career rather early?

He did, without looking maybe 20? But he's only 31 now and he's been out of Tampa Bay for three years.

Ahh, the memories. Just barely out of his teenage years when his D-Rays fell to my beloved Fightin's. Seems like ages ago.

Tequila Cowboy wrote:

211poundsofpork wrote:

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Here's a crazy one for you; today marks the 5,000 game in a row where the starting pitcher for the Tampa Bay Rays is under 30 years old.

Does this include David Price or Steve Shields? I thought Price was a Devil Ray/Ray for a long while- '08 Series and then some.

I think you mean James Shields, but yeah it includes both. They were under 30 when the played there.

was gonna drop a Shields and Yarnell joke but (A) didn't want to date myself, and (2) figured most younguns here don't even know who they were

If it helps, I remember Lenn Sakata.

Congrats to Adrian Beltre who removed any doubts as to his Hall of Fame credentials w/ his 3,000th hit today.

Meanwhile Panic Grips Hub as the Sox continue to stumble and bumble. Other than hitting and pitching, they're doing just fine.

beantownbubba wrote:Congrats to Adrian Beltre who removed any doubts as to his Hall of Fame credentials w/ his 3,000th hit today.

Meanwhile Panic Grips Hub as the Sox continue to stumble and bumble. Other than hitting and pitching, they're doing just fine.

Younger brother is a Sox fan, we’ve been talking about how this may be the most tumultuous stretch we’ve seen from them since the beer and chicken days back in 2011. To make matters worse David Price is on a mission to become the most unlikable Boston player of all time, which I hate to say since he grew up ~10 miles down the road from me.

Steve Bartman has been given a 2016 Championship ring.



http://wgntv.com/2017/07/31/steve-bartm ... ship-ring/

The Cubs organization is all class.

Tequila Cowboy wrote:The Cubs organization is all class.

That's great.

Sterling Bigmouth wrote:this may be the most tumultuous stretch we’ve seen from them since the beer and chicken days back in 2011. To make matters worse David Price is on a mission to become the most unlikable Boston player of all time,

Agree w/ the second part (though he's still got a ways to go), not so sure about the first. I admit I don't read as much about the team as I used to but things seem relatively calm, Price excepted. But if the Sox do fall out of playoff contention for real, whoo boy, hold on to your hats & duck.

The whole Bartman tale is weird, and this only makes it weirder.

The Dodgers are leaving nothing to chance. Darvish. Sheesh.

Tequila Cowboy wrote:The Dodgers are leaving nothing to chance. Darvish. Sheesh.

Still only puts them at about 25% odds to win it all. This certainly helps them in the playoff crapshoot, but anyone can beat anyone in these short series. Bring them on

Zip City wrote:

Tequila Cowboy wrote:The Dodgers are leaving nothing to chance. Darvish. Sheesh.

Still only puts them at about 25% odds to win it all. This certainly helps them in the playoff crapshoot, but anyone can beat anyone in these short series. Bring them on

25% is huge though. I think the Cubs were at 21% going in. I do agree with you but the Dodgers are scary. Houston should be scary but screwed the pooch IMHO by not getting a TOR starter. Thoughts overall:

Dodgers- WOW
Yankees- Favorite in teh East now?
Cleveland- Probably not enough but still a good team
Kansas City- I don't understand. They're not good enough to beat Cleveland and they've set their next rebuild back 2 years by not selling.
Twins- Did OK, probably shouldn't have fooled with being buyers in the first place and traded Santana before his market fell off.
Boston- Couldn't tell you. Painted around the edges.
Houston- You have gotta be kidding me. The AL was there for the taking with the acquisition of one TOR starter. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
Rangers- Nice last minute deal
Tigers- Mystified, but Verlander will clear waivers and should still go.
Cubs- Solid. Damned solid.
White Sox- I've never seen anything like this haul of players they've acquired in the last 9 months. Can they develop becomes the question. Still, A+ winners at the deadline.
Milwaukee- Will come in 2nd. Decided to be smart and not sell too many assets. Their time is coming.
St. Louis- WTF? You couldn't trade Lance Lynn?
Pittsburgh- Realized they were probably chasing fools gold but did OK in trading Watson.
Tampa Bay- Lots of fiddling at the edges. Should be enough as I don't buy KC.
Washington- I don't know. Closer by committee? Lots of arms there but no big one.
Seattle- Not sure. I think they could have made a move to get better than TB but not sure what it would have been.

Not sure Milwaukee will be much better than they are now for some time. They were smart not to buy their way into what is clearly the Cubs' window, but a lot has to go right for them to overtake Chicago in the next 5-6 years

Zip City wrote:Not sure Milwaukee will be much better than they are now for some time. They were smart not to buy their way into what is clearly the Cubs' window, but a lot has to go right for them to overtake Chicago in the next 5-6 years

I'm not sure about that. I think the current window for the Cubs before it gets unaffordable is 4 years, or through 2021 when Theo says he's leaving. I think Milwaukee will be our primary rival for a while. They may have a bit of hangover next year but they have money so they may spend going into the so called "superclass" of 2019 and the prospects are impressive. Hader looks scary and if he develops that changeup that's one hell of a 1-2 punch with Chase Anderson.

Tequila Cowboy wrote:

Zip City wrote:Not sure Milwaukee will be much better than they are now for some time. They were smart not to buy their way into what is clearly the Cubs' window, but a lot has to go right for them to overtake Chicago in the next 5-6 years

I'm not sure about that. I think the current window for the Cubs before it gets unaffordable is 4 years, or through 2021 when Theo says he's leaving. I think Milwaukee will be our primary rival for a while. They may have a bit of hangover next year but they have money so they may spend going into the so called "superclass" of 2019 and the prospects are impressive. Hader looks scary and if he develops that changeup that's one hell of a 1-2 punch with Chase Anderson.

"Unaffordable" is a relative term when there is a multi-billion dollar TV contract on the horizon.

I mean, in three years (when the Cubs start coming up for a lot of FA deals) you're looking at a 33 year old Thames, Braun will be 36, Shaw will be 30, Bandy 30, and Pina 33. Anderson 32, Nelson 31, Suter 30.

They would have to hit on A LOT of prospects coming up to dream of matching up with the Rizzo/Bryant/Contreras/Quintana, etc. led Cubs teams

As much as I love the moves by the Yankees and Dodgers to get Gray and Darvish respectively, I’m still sticking by my preseason pick of the Indians to go all the way. Their roster might not quite be as talented, but they’ve got a solid rotation, elite bullpen, timely hitting, and in my opinion the best manager in the AL in Terry Franconca. I’m not one to wish the season away, but it’s looking like October is gonna be veeeeery interesting,

Zip City wrote:

Tequila Cowboy wrote:

Zip City wrote:Not sure Milwaukee will be much better than they are now for some time. They were smart not to buy their way into what is clearly the Cubs' window, but a lot has to go right for them to overtake Chicago in the next 5-6 years

I'm not sure about that. I think the current window for the Cubs before it gets unaffordable is 4 years, or through 2021 when Theo says he's leaving. I think Milwaukee will be our primary rival for a while. They may have a bit of hangover next year but they have money so they may spend going into the so called "superclass" of 2019 and the prospects are impressive. Hader looks scary and if he develops that changeup that's one hell of a 1-2 punch with Chase Anderson.

"Unaffordable" is a relative term when there is a multi-billion dollar TV contract on the horizon.

I mean, in three years (when the Cubs start coming up for a lot of FA deals) you're looking at a 33 year old Thames, Braun will be 36, Shaw will be 30, Bandy 30, and Pina 33. Anderson 32, Nelson 31, Suter 30.

They would have to hit on A LOT of prospects coming up to dream of matching up with the Rizzo/Bryant/Contreras/Quintana, etc. led Cubs teams

Most of those players won't be on a winning Brewers Team. Anderson might be and Shaw might be but likely not the rest. They already have Brinson up, Corey Ray has struggled this year but is still a 55 grade prospect and should bounce back. Their pitching staff in two years looks deadly lead by Hader and Anderson and joined by young stud arms Luis Ortiz, Brandon Woodruff and maybe Corbin Burnes who's changed a lot of minds this year. After that they have two 55 grade infielders in Keston Hiura and Isan Diaz. All of these guys are either up or close. Is their farm comparable to pre-2015 Cubs system? Maybe not but only because there isn't a Kris Bryant, but there is pitching and lots of it and an owner who isn't afraid to spend at the appropriate times. The Brewers will be chasing our tails for years and probably get by once or twice.

As far as the Cubs people keep talking about TV money while Theo talks about getting under, and staying under the luxury tax. I believe Theo. I also believe he'll keep doing anything to win though so I'm not worried.

I guess I'm just wary of "stud arms". Pitching is fragile. See: NY Mets

Zip City wrote:I guess I'm just wary of "stud arms". Pitching is fragile. See: NY Mets

That I agree with, but they have a bunch of them and money to augment. I see the Cardinals entering some sort of rebuild, although their inactivity yesterday is puzzling, the Pirates in a bit of a retool phase although they probably won't fall off the map, and the Reds though they do have some nice prospects are still a good bit away. I think the Brewers are the rival in last 4 years or so of this window. That's good though. It's a solid rivalry, the cities are close and both fanbases travel well, and there is potential from some really games. I look forward to it.

Last nite's Sox-Indians game was easily the craziest, wildest game of the season (the Sox season, I don't know nearly enough to comment about the other 29 teams). So much happened I can't even begin to cover it all; I suggest and recommend that you find a good complete summary of the game; I have to think any baseball fan will enjoy reading about all the spills, chills, reversals, ironies, changes of fortune, great plays, bad plays, thrill of victory, agony of defeat, victories snatched from the jaws of defeats, defeats snatched from the jaws of victories, etc etc. At the very least, find a clip of Austin Jackson's superb catch robbing Hanley Ramirez of a home run. I'm not sure how public it is but if you can get a copy of Albert Speier's 108 Stitches column that's a good place to start.

Despite the fact that they've lost 2 in a row here, I'm impressed by this Cleveland club. I think they have a good chance to go deep in the playoffs.

I cannot agree more with bubba's comments about the Sox - Indians game last night. As a long time Cleveland fan, I almost threw my dinner plate through the TV after the walk off. Austin Jackson's catch was awesome and although the Sox pulled it out in the end (and I have to hear about it from the fine folks in our Corporate Office in Boston all day today), it was an amazing game to watch.

Belk wrote:I cannot agree more with bubba's comments about the Sox - Indians game last night. As a long time Cleveland fan, I almost threw my dinner plate through the TV after the walk off. Austin Jackson's catch was awesome and although the Sox pulled it out in the end (and I have to hear about it from the fine folks in our Corporate Office in Boston all day today), it was an amazing game to watch.

Well, fwiw from this Cubs fan, I think your two clubs are the two best in the AL when it comes down to it. Yes, Houston has a crazy lead but they also have a mediocre pen, question marks from their two top starters and didn't make a move to shore up the rest of the rotation despite having plenty of young assets. I think they should be ashamed of themselves and I feel bad for their players. Keuchel and McCullers are both iffy with the latter on the DL again and Keuchel hasn't thrown a quality start in two months. Anyone that tells me they'll be fine with 2 of Morton, Fiers or McHugh rounding the rotation in the playoffs, and that assumes a healthy McCullers, is crazy. Neither the Indians or Red Sox are perfect but their both damned good and more importantly battle tested which is something the upstart Yankees (how funny is it to type that?)and Rays (I think they'll beat out KC in the end) are not. Best guess is that the Yankees win a WC game and then bounce Houston while your two teams battle it out in the ALDS.

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Steve Bartman has been given a 2016 Championship ring.



http://wgntv.com/2017/07/31/steve-bartm ... ship-ring/

The Cubs organization is all class.

Bartman distinguished himself as well w/ these words as quoted in the NY Post:

"Although I do not consider myself worthy of such an honor, I am deeply moved and sincerely grateful to receive [this ring],” Bartman said. “I am fully aware of the historical significance and appreciate the symbolism the ring represents on multiple levels. My family and I will cherish it for generations.”

He added: “I humbly receive the ring not only as a symbol of one of the most historic achievements in sports, but as an important reminder for how we should treat each other in today’s society.”

More class.

Bartman has handled his situation way better than many of us would have. His life was turned upside down for no reason.