MLB 2018

[beantownbubba]

The voting process is broken. Maddux should've been unanimous. Morris was very good to great, he is borderline. Potential steroids usage aside, I don't think Biggio or Bagwell are HOF caliber players either. Yes, they were among the best players of their generation; but I feel the criteria should be slightly more slanted towards were they among the greatest players ever (which they were not). The Hall would become very crowded if they let that caliber of player in (and that would diminish it's austerity to me).

Have you actually looked at Biggio's and Bagwell's stats? The ONLY issue w/ regard to either of them is the steroids cloud. Otherwise they are both among the greatest ever at their positions. And you can look it up.

[Zip City]

3000+ hits
400+ steals
nearly 300 HR's
All-Star as Catcher AND Second Baseman

Biggio is a no-brainer

2300+ hits
350 HR
1500+ RBI
.948 career OPS
ROY and MVP

Bagwell should also be in

[Shakespeare]

idk if any of you guys followed the hall of fame vote that deadspin "bought" (though actually for no money) and put up for fan polling, but it was revealed that it was dan le batard and hes since lost his vote for life and been suspended by the bbwaa for a year. not a shock, but still total bullshit.

so you can submit a blank "protest vote" or willfully troll everyone by voting only jack morris for no logical reason and the writers will defend your right to do what you want with your vote, but leaving it up to fan input (which many voters do, albeit in a far less sensational manner) is grounds for having it revoked. nice moral standards there.

e: heres the ballot, for what its worth. clearly comes down on the "let ped users in" side of the argument, but its still far more rational than a lot of the "official" voters decisions. http://deadspin.com/revealed-the-hall-o ... 1496558341

[beantownbubba]

Oh, btw, did you see that Palmiero is now permanently off the ballot? I'm pleased by that because I've always felt that of all the major steroids involved players, he was the one who turned from a non hall of famer into a hall of famer as a result. I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE OF THIS, OK? SO DON'T GIVE ME GRIEF ABOUT IT, IT'S JUST MY OPINION. And now even if the other steroiders get in, as they presumably will, he won't be one of them, which i consider a good outcome.

Shakespeare, i see this the other way: I don't know what the actual rules are, but if i were making them up, giving away your vote would be reason enough to revoke the privilege. The fact that other circumstances ought to result in revocation is not a reason not to revoke in this case (and I agree that some of these other clowns should get the boot).

[Shakespeare]

palmeiro was never getting in, as impressive as 3000/500 is. if nothing else, he had the finger wag in congress working against him. if ever there was a lasting image of lying about steroids, that would be it

as for le batard, its debatable whether he really "gave up his vote." i would say no. he still submitted his vote, it just happened to be according to the deadpsin reader poll, which for all we know wasnt far from how he would have voted anyway. plenty of voters seek fan input for their decisions, so i really dont see how this is so egregiously different (except the obvious thumbing of the nose at the bbwaa, which was never gonna be allowed to go unpunished). again, im not surprised he lost his vote because of this, i just think its crazy that you can submit absurd ballots to make a personal statement, but submit a pretty top notch ballot as a result of a fan poll and you're out for life?

[sg207]

palmeiro was never getting in, as impressive as 3000/500 is. if nothing else, he had the finger wag in congress working against him. if ever there was a lasting image of lying about steroids, that would be it

as for le batard, its debatable whether he really "gave up his vote." i would say no. he still submitted his vote, it just happened to be according to the deadpsin reader poll, which for all we know wasnt far from how he would have voted anyway. plenty of voters seek fan input for their decisions, so i really dont see how this is so egregiously different (except the obvious thumbing of the nose at the bbwaa, which was never gonna be allowed to go unpunished). again, im not surprised he lost his vote because of this, i just think its crazy that you can submit absurd ballots to make a personal statement, but submit a pretty top notch ballot as a result of a fan poll and you're out for life?

Old white guys get really upset when you try to tell them how ridiculous they are. Taking their ball and going home is a pretty typical response.

[Slipkid42]

The voting process is broken. Maddux should've been unanimous. Morris was very good to great, he is borderline. Potential steroids usage aside, I don't think Biggio or Bagwell are HOF caliber players either. Yes, they were among the best players of their generation; but I feel the criteria should be slightly more slanted towards were they among the greatest players ever (which they were not). The Hall would become very crowded if they let that caliber of player in (and that would diminish it's austerity to me).

Have you actually looked at Biggio's and Bagwell's stats? The ONLY issue w/ regard to either of them is the steroids cloud. Otherwise they are both among the greatest ever at their positions. And you can look it up.

Admittedly, I probably didn't watch enough NL baseball during their careers to properly assess Biggio & Bagwell's HOF worthiness. The numbers do seem good enough & I'm sure they are both as good as many players already enshrined. In Biggio's case, 2nd basemen that hit w/power & field well certainly are not a dime a dozen. I'm also sure that had he played for the Yankees, he would be on the express train to the Hall. I stand corrected on Biggio. Bagwell, I'm not as sure about. Maybe because he was a 1st baseman during an era that had so many great 1st basemen. Mattingly, McGriff, Clark, Palmeiro, Thomas, McGuire, Pujols & even Helton all had similar power numbers & some of them were nifty fielders as well. If Bagwell is an HOFer, shouldn't those others be considered in that category too (again, steroids aside)? Also, I'd like to make the argument that with 2 HOFers on the same team for so many years together, shouldn't the Astros have more post-season glory to show for it; but I lived through the '88 Orioles. That team had 2 HOFers & only won 54 games. Won knows? Biggio in, tough call on Bagwell. O.K. TC, looks like we disagree again after all.

[beantownbubba]

W/out looking at the stats (which i realize is what got you into trouble, slip ) my quick take is:

Mattingly - marginal, probably benefits enough from being a Yankee that he's less qualified than people remember
McGriff - good player but my impression/memory is that his best stats are longevity related "counting stats" which count for less than others
McGwire - w/out the steroids issues he's a no brainer
Pujols - clearly a Hall of Famer even if he retires today
Clark - no
Helton - requires the most thought because of playing in CO but my guess (again, w/out looking) is that his numbers would support his entry into the Hall

So, if that's the peer group, that says that Bagwell is more than marginal if not quite a lock, I think (2 definites, 3 varying shades of maybe and 1 no)

On edit: Forgot Palmiero - w/out steroids, another no brainer; the numbers are pretty amazing. And Thomas is in. Which makes Bagwell's peer group even more impressive

[Zip City]

The irony of booting Lebatard while letting people submit blank ballots (or throw votes at JT Snow) is unbelievable. Had he pulled names out if a hat or had his kids fill it out, no problem, but give the people spending the money on the sport a voice? THIS WILL NOT STAND!

Funny that this is what embarrasses the BBWA, not electing zero players last year

Fucktards, the lot of them

[Slipkid42]

idk if any of you guys followed the hall of fame vote that deadspin "bought" (though actually for no money) and put up for fan polling, but it was revealed that it was dan le batard and hes since lost his vote for life and been suspended by the bbwaa for a year. not a shock, but still total bullshit.

so you can submit a blank "protest vote" or willfully troll everyone by voting only jack morris for no logical reason and the writers will defend your right to do what you want with your vote, but leaving it up to fan input (which many voters do, albeit in a far less sensational manner) is grounds for having it revoked. nice moral standards there.

e: heres the ballot, for what its worth. clearly comes down on the "let ped users in" side of the argument, but its still far more rational than a lot of the "official" voters decisions. http://deadspin.com/revealed-the-hall-o ... 1496558341

Heard le Betard on the radio this morning rationalize his actions to Tim Kurkjian, who had called him out on the issue. He feels the voting system is so broken, that a fan poll is just as 'informed' a vote as the BBWAA could come up with. He also thinks it's irrational to exclude the steroid users, when some of them were among the best players of all-time whether they would have used or not (especially considering that they were competing against so many other users). He was most incensed that Barry Bonds was not on any ballots. Kurkjian said he could see le Betard's position, but still would not have gone about it that manner. La de da. I got the impression that he didn't give a flyin' fuck if they ever let him vote again.

[Slipkid42]

W/out looking at the stats (which i realize is what got you into trouble, slip ) my quick take is:

I do tend to shoot from the hip more than I ought to.

Oh, btw, did you see that Palmiero is now permanently off the ballot? I'm pleased by that because I've always felt that of all the major steroids involved players, he was the one who turned from a non hall of famer into a hall of famer as a result. I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE OF THIS, OK? SO DON'T GIVE ME GRIEF ABOUT IT, IT'S JUST MY OPINION. And now even if the other steroiders get in, as they presumably will, he won't be one of them, which i consider a good outcome.

Certainly the finger wag to Congress was on a grander stage; but Clemens & Bonds (and Sosa too) lied under oath & just as adamantly. Moot point I know, but the fact that Palmeiro is now dismissed from consideration while those others can still someday slither in, shows how retarded the voting/balloting process actually is.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Ten teams are reportedly in the bidding for Masahiro Tanaka. Shows the importance of pitching huh?

[Shakespeare]

surprised its not more than 10, to be honest. with the new posting system you'd have to be a fool not to at least think about throwing your hat in the ring. theres basically nothing to lose

[oilpiers]

Arod is Agon, at least this year. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/arbitrator-rules-alex-rodriguez-to-be-suspended-for-2014-season?ymd=20140109&content_id=66433260&vkey=news_mlb

[oilpiers]

For some strange reason, he looks natural in a Yankee, Dodger, or Mariner hat. The others don't look right.

[Bill in CT]

The problem with Jack Morris is that too many people focus solely on his 10 in ing complete game 7.

I'm not saying he was a bad pitcher. He was a very good pitcher. But one of the best of all time?

Absolutely not. Morris does not belong in the HoF. It's not the hall of the very good.

They are already allowing lesser players than Jack Morris into the Hall of Fame. See: Bill Mazeroski

[Bill in CT]

Biggio was a leadoff hitter. Do you know where he ranks among MLB players in on-base percentage? He is 383rd.

He played for 20 years and was on only 7 All-Star teams.

He was 4th in the MVP voting. He was 5th another time. He was 10th another time. So he finished in the top 10 of his league's MVP voting a total of 3 times in his 20 seasons. That doesn't sound like a Hall of Famer to me.

Even so, he'll probably get in next year.

Meanwhile, Albert Belle will never get in because he wasn't nice to the baseball writers...even though he was a dominant hitter for a decade.

[Bill in CT]

How's this for lack of run support in the postseason? See if you can name this HoF pitcher from the following postseason numbers.

IP: 57
W-L: 4-3
ERA: 0.95

[Tequila Cowboy]

Meet Clark, the new Cubs mascot:



Why in the hell is his hat on backwards?

[Zip City]

[Tequila Cowboy]

Deadspin's take on the Cubs mascot (NSFW):

http://deadspin.com/contest-do-somethin ... 1500558877

[ScottyC]

My guess without looking at the pitcher is Bob Gibson.

Meet Clark, the new Cubs mascot:



Why in the hell is his hat on backwards?

Wow , I mean it will help merch sales which is one thing the Cubs do very well.

[ScottyC]

Speaking of the HOF, they are already talking about the candidates for next year and the closest thing baseball has to the devil himself is up for election next year. That is Gary Sheffield. My all time biggest POS in any sport of all time. I will personally lead the campaign to make sure he does not get in............

[beergut]

My guess without looking at the pitcher is Bob Gibson.

Meet Clark, the new Cubs mascot:



Why in the hell is his hat on backwards?

Wow , I mean it will help merch sales which is one thing the Cubs do very well.

I'm glad you said it before me.
Are you a Wisconsin native?

And just because TC posted the link.

[Bill in CT]

My guess without looking at the pitcher is Bob Gibson.

That's an excellent guess. You got the league and era right but it was Sandy Koufax.

[ScottyC]

Originally from wisky. In the south now and the only think I took with me from the north is my love of the crew.

I will be ready for more trivia in a few weeks Bill!!

[Shakespeare]

http://deadspin.com/comcast-sportsnet-a ... 1501633812

[beantownbubba]

Biggio was a leadoff hitter. Do you know where he ranks among MLB players in on-base percentage? He is 383rd.

Meanwhile, Albert Belle will never get in because he wasn't nice to the baseball writers...even though he was a dominant hitter for a decade.

Is it correct that Biggio was predominantly a leadoff hitter? That's not what i remember but i don't claim to remember much about the Astros.

You're 100% correct about Belle - One of many "Exhibit A's" for the writers' inability to take their job seriously and do it right.

[beantownbubba]

Over $30 Million per year for seven years for a pitcher. Man, am i in the wrong business. Well, at least he's in his prime.

[Zip City]

Over $30 Million per year for seven years for a pitcher. Man, am i in the wrong business. Well, at least he's in his prime.

And they say they still want to add a starting pitcher, despite having 8 or 9 of them