MLB 2018

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Re: MLB 2014

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Yep, the Cardinals made some nice moves. No question. The interesting thing is that Pittsburgh's system is quite similar to St. Louis with boatloads of young arms, but actually more position played depth. Certainly not ready to pick yet but one of those two teams will win the central. Both are likely to make the playoffs. The Reds are not a bad team but if they have any major injuries their lack of depth will hurt them.
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Re: MLB 2014

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Masahiro Tanaka signs with the Yankees 7 years, $155 million. The Chicago rhetoric is already in high gear on how "cheap" Tom Ricketts is.
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Re: MLB 2014

Post by Zip City »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Masahiro Tanaka signs with the Yankees 7 years, $155 million. The Chicago rhetoric is already in high gear on how "cheap" Tom Ricketts is.


When the reality is that he wanted to play for a contender. Funny, losing 90 games several years in a row tends to make the team unattractive to free agents...
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Re: MLB 2014

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Zip City wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Masahiro Tanaka signs with the Yankees 7 years, $155 million. The Chicago rhetoric is already in high gear on how "cheap" Tom Ricketts is.


When the reality is that he wanted to play for a contender. Funny, losing 90 games several years in a row tends to make the team unattractive to free agents...


I agree. The only issue I have with the rebuilding plan is the lack of top line pitching. It's said they don't have pitching prospects but that's just not true, they have quite a few back end starters and plenty of potential bullpen guys, they just don't have any who project as a number 1 or 2, witht he exception of CJ Edwars who is at least 2 years and 30 lbs. away.. Tanaka would have changed that fast and probably accelerated the plan to possibly contending next year, now we're looking at 2016 barring a major trade. Oh well, looking forward to Javier Baez and Kris Bryant in June.

I also think the opt out clause played a part. The Cubs would have been crazy to offer an opt out in four years. You don't sign a guy and let him hold you hostage when you're projecting that to the prime of your contending years.
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Re: MLB 2014

Post by Zip City »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:
Zip City wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Masahiro Tanaka signs with the Yankees 7 years, $155 million. The Chicago rhetoric is already in high gear on how "cheap" Tom Ricketts is.


When the reality is that he wanted to play for a contender. Funny, losing 90 games several years in a row tends to make the team unattractive to free agents...


I agree. The only issue I have with the rebuilding plan is the lack of top line pitching. It's said they don't have pitching prospects but that's just not true, they have quite a few back end starters and plenty of potential bullpen guys, they just don't have any who project as a number 1 or 2, witht he exception of CJ Edwars who is at least 2 years and 30 lbs. away.. Tanaka would have changed that fast and probably accelerated the plan to possibly contending next year, now we're looking at 2016 barring a major trade. Oh well, looking forward to Javier Baez and Kris Bryant in June.


The thing that sucks is that this probably means they're trading Shark, which only pushes the rebuild back further.

Theo et al better see this thing through and not bail after their contract runs out
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Re: MLB 2014

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Zip City wrote:Theo et al better see this thing through and not bail after their contract runs out

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Re: MLB 2014

Post by StevieRay »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Masahiro Tanaka signs with the Yankees 7 years, $155 million.


Are the Yankees now favorites to win the AL East? They had to get Tanaka as their staff was lacking depth and a number one starter with Sabathia's bad season last year... Obviously A-Rod is addition by subtraction, and, their outfield looks outstanding... but, their infield and pitching other than Tanaka are questionable. Anyone care to pick the AL EAST?

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Re: MLB 2014

Post by Zip City »

StevieRay wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Masahiro Tanaka signs with the Yankees 7 years, $155 million.


Are the Yankees now favorites to win the AL East? They had to get Tanaka as their staff was lacking depth and a number one starter with Sabathia's bad season last year... Obviously A-Rod is addition by subtraction, and, their outfield looks outstanding... but, their infield and pitching other than Tanaka are questionable. Anyone care to pick the AL EAST?


No, I wouldn't make them favorites. They may not even make the playoffs again
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Re: MLB 2014

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

StevieRay wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Masahiro Tanaka signs with the Yankees 7 years, $155 million.


Are the Yankees now favorites to win the AL East? They had to get Tanaka as their staff was lacking depth and a number one starter with Sabathia's bad season last year... Obviously A-Rod is addition by subtraction, and, their outfield looks outstanding... but, their infield and pitching other than Tanaka are questionable. Anyone care to pick the AL EAST?


Not yet, but it's obviously the Yankees and Red Sox with everyone else behind them. I still think your boys are better but let's let spring training happen before I make my always wrong picks.
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Re: MLB 2014

Post by StevieRay »

Zip City wrote:
StevieRay wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Masahiro Tanaka signs with the Yankees 7 years, $155 million.


Are the Yankees now favorites to win the AL East?


No, I wouldn't make them favorites. They may not even make the playoffs again


Let's see if they are done buying. Also, Brian McCann is going to help that staff... but, I hope you are correct.

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Not yet, but it's obviously the Yankees and Red Sox with everyone else behind them.


I think Baltimore has the best group of position players - and they are deep with pitching if not top flight starters. Too bad Angelos is so gutless and won't get those last few pieces before the Weiters & Davis contracts are up after 2015.

Tampa is going to do what they do.

Toronto can't possibly be worse, can they?

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Re: MLB 2014

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

I picked Toronto to win that division last year but quickly realized that I had picked the 2012 Miami Marlins to win the AL East in 2013. I'd love to blame it on liquor but I'm sure I was sober at the time.

I think this is the year that Tampa can't quite compete. I know they just signed David Price but don't think that's he's now immediately on the trade market, the contract is team friendly enough for the to happen.

As far as the Yankees go I hear that now that they've blown that "get under the salary cap" talk out of the water that they're going all out and may be looking at Matt Garza to fill out that pitching staff. That would be a pretty good staff if they get him

I'll let Slip talk about Baltimore. I just don't see it but I could be wrong.
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Re: MLB 2014

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

The Cubs are having a very bad day.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/2511 ... wners.html

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Re: MLB 2014

Post by StevieRay »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:The Chicago rhetoric is already in high gear on how "cheap" Tom Ricketts is.


The Yankees have spent $483 million so far this winter. That is just over the gross national product of Dominica. 483m for Carlos Beltran, Jacoby Ellsbury, Derek Jeter, Kelly Johnson, Hiroki Kuroda, Brian McCann, Brian Roberts, Brendan Ryan, Masahiro Tanaka and Matt Thornton.

I read an article in the WSJ a while back basically stating that the economics of the Yankees organization are only sustainable if the team makes the playoffs. Nothing else matters.

Now - I've lived in Chicago, and, I understand the angst - but... compared to the Yankees, all of MLB is "cheap."
Last edited by StevieRay on Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: MLB 2014

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

StevieRay wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:The Chicago rhetoric is already in high gear on how "cheap" Tom Ricketts is.


The Yankees have spent $483 million so far this winter. That is the same exact number as Belgium's gross national product last year (ranked 25th in the world). 483m for Carlos Beltran, Jacoby Ellsbury, Derek Jeter, Kelly Johnson, Hiroki Kuroda, Brian McCann, Brian Roberts, Brendan Ryan, Masahiro Tanaka and Matt Thornton.

I read an article in the WSJ a while back basically stating that the economics of the Yankees organization are only sustainable if the team makes the playoffs. Nothing else matters.

Now - I've lived in Chicago, and, I understand the angst - but... compared to the Yankees, all of MLB is "cheap."


Except for the Dodgers. As of today their payroll for 2014 is $244 million.
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Re: MLB 2014

Post by StevieRay »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:
StevieRay wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:The Chicago rhetoric is already in high gear on how "cheap" Tom Ricketts is.


The Yankees have spent $483 million so far this winter. 483m for Carlos Beltran, Jacoby Ellsbury, Derek Jeter, Kelly Johnson, Hiroki Kuroda, Brian McCann, Brian Roberts, Brendan Ryan, Masahiro Tanaka and Matt Thornton.

I read an article in the WSJ a while back basically stating that the economics of the Yankees organization are only sustainable if the team makes the playoffs. Nothing else matters.

Now - I've lived in Chicago, and, I understand the angst - but... compared to the Yankees, all of MLB is "cheap."


Except for the Dodgers. As of today their payroll for 2014 is $244 million.


I'm did not mean their payroll - just the the free agent budget spend this winter.

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Re: MLB 2014

Post by Slipkid42 »

Baltimore has had a very disappointing off-season. We traded Jim Johnson to the A's for a minor league 2nd baseman. We then signed Oakland's closer, but he mysteriously failed our physical. Now it looks like Tommy Hunter (a decent set-up man) or Gausman our 2013 #1 pick will close. Seems like a crapshoot. The Yankees signed the oft-injured Brian Roberts away from us. Roberts missed more games than he played the last 3 years, but he is still very productive when healthy. I could see letting him go if we had a 2nd baseman to replace him, but we only have borderline major leaguers at that spot. Dicey at best. Our DH platoon of Reimold & Urretia could be the answer, but Reimold is oft-injured & Urretia is a wild swinger that strikes out a lot. We let McClouth go & got some guy named Hough to replace him in left. That might work out, I guess; but McClouth was a clutch leadoff guy who fielded well. I'm not optimistic that was an upgrade. Machado will be coming back slowly off his ACL surgery, hopefully he will return to form. Other than those iffy situations the rest of the lineup does look studly. It's the pitching that will probably keep the O's from being serious contenders. We have a lot of arms, but only Tillman seems reliable and he is like a #2 that must be our ace. Fingers are crossed, but hopes are not too high.

I see the AL East shaking out like this:

Boston
NY
Tampa
Baltimore
Toronto
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Re: MLB 2014

Post by StevieRay »

Priceless quote in the NY Post about the Yankees:

"It is a horrible business plan, a caveman way to build a roster (no art, all financial bludgeoning). It is a tactic that leaves the Yankees susceptible to this current crew wilting and forcing a rinse, repeat, spend a half a billion in a few more years to cover up more malfeasance in drafting, international signings and development."

Which American League team might make the playoffs that did not do so in 2013?

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Re: MLB 2014

Post by Zip City »

Colin Cowherd (who I usually vehemently disagree with) had an interesting take on the signing: he said the addition of Tanaka was less about winning and more about ratings. He said building a team in 2014 was more about Q rating than fielding a winner. TV contracts produce far more revenue than ticket sales.
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Re: MLB 2014

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Zip City wrote:Colin Cowherd (who I usually vehemently disagree with) had an interesting take on the signing: he said the addition of Tanaka was less about winning and more about ratings. He said building a team in 2014 was more about Q rating than fielding a winner. TV contracts produce far more revenue than ticket sales.


True, but they might win also.

As an aside, this is what Chicago fans are failing understand about the Cubs and their revenue woes. They are grossly underpaid on their TV rights, most notably by WGN but also in their deal with Comcast and their co-ownership role there. The Tribune company originally wrote that Comcast deal with themselves as the co-owner, not the team so as such they paid the team less than what they could have made in a competitive market. The Cubs actually do own that piece now but of course inherited the deal. The WGN deal was similar and had been that way since they bought the club. Since they owned all the parties involved they chose to keep the cash in the parent corporations coffers as opposed to the team. The WGN deal is expiring after this year with the Comcast deal expiring after the 2018 season. They'll get some money with the public broadcast deal starting in 2015, but tit will be limited because their are really only two suitors for teh Cubs on broadcast TV, WGN and WFLD the local Fox affiliate (Both Fox and the CW allow their stations more leeway in preempting network programming, the other networks would never allow say, CSI, to be preempted for the Cubs). the real windfall will be the cable deal and while Comcast has made offers to extend the deal, the Cubs are gambling that the numbers will be much higher when they're competitive. The money is in TV now, as Zip said, and has been for some time.
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Re: MLB 2014

Post by cortez the killer »

Image
2013-14 Offseason Spending (in millions)
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Re: MLB 2014

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Calling it impossible to decide between the Cubs and Braves as to which team he would represent in the HoF, Greg Maddux' cap will have no logo. Braves fan are likely to be pretty pissed.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/01/greg-ma ... nta-brave/
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Re: MLB 2014

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Tequila Cowboy wrote:Calling it impossible to decide between the Cubs and Braves as to which team he would represent in the HoF, Greg Maddux' cap will have no logo. Braves fan are likely to be pretty pissed.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/01/greg-ma ... nta-brave/


when i read it, i actually cried, a little bit, in a good way. i am sure baseball fans understand what he mean(t)s to both teams. if braves fans are pissed, they don't know how important he is/was to chicagoans.

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Re: MLB 2014

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Not a White Sox fan but since I keep up with Chicago sports I hear what's going on with them. What are in the world are they doing? They just signed Manager Robin Ventura to a multi year deal, and this is a guy who doesn't seem to like managing. They made a few big signings but appear to be years away from competing while continuing to refuse to trade their biggest asset in Chris Sale who would net them some serious prospects. Oh and their farm system is bad. They seem to be on a road to perpetual irrelevance, but they also seem to have a plan, just not one anyone can understand. Are they smarter than everyone else or just stupid?
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Re: MLB 2014

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Of the top 100 top prospects in baseball, as chosen by Baseball America, 14 of them were chosen by current Cubs brass Jed Hoyer, Theo Epstein or both. That's impressive when you think about it.
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Re: MLB 2014

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Tequila Cowboy wrote:Not a White Sox fan but since I keep up with Chicago sports I hear what's going on with them. What are in the world are they doing? They just signed Manager Robin Ventura to a multi year deal, and this is a guy who doesn't seem to like managing. They made a few big signings but appear to be years away from competing while continuing to refuse to trade their biggest asset in Chris Sale who would net them some serious prospects. Oh and their farm system is bad. They seem to be on a road to perpetual irrelevance, but they also seem to have a plan, just not one anyone can understand. Are they smarter than everyone else or just stupid?


Kenny Williams has proven he knows what he's doing over the years. Ventura is smart enough to get out of his own way with his low-key style; and, the key member of that coaching staff has always been Don Cooper. I think the Sox believe that in Abreu they have a future star. Garcia was a nice pickup in exchange for Peavy. Adam Eaton is a potentially exciting player. They certainly have always had to operate like a small market team as they can't sell many tickets there on the South Side - but, there is a surprisingly large fan base out in the 'burbs.

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Re: MLB 2014

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

StevieRay wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Not a White Sox fan but since I keep up with Chicago sports I hear what's going on with them. What are in the world are they doing? They just signed Manager Robin Ventura to a multi year deal, and this is a guy who doesn't seem to like managing. They made a few big signings but appear to be years away from competing while continuing to refuse to trade their biggest asset in Chris Sale who would net them some serious prospects. Oh and their farm system is bad. They seem to be on a road to perpetual irrelevance, but they also seem to have a plan, just not one anyone can understand. Are they smarter than everyone else or just stupid?


Kenny Williams has proven he knows what he's doing over the years. Ventura is smart enough to get out of his own way with his low-key style; and, the key member of that coaching staff has always been Don Cooper. I think the Sox believe that in Abreu they have a future star. Garcia was a nice pickup in exchange for Peavy. Adam Eaton is a potentially exciting player. They certainly have always had to operate like a small market team as they can't sell many tickets there on the South Side - but, there is a surprisingly large fan base out in the 'burbs.


I guess what it looks like to me is that they're not acting like a small market team. They've spent some money on the farm system but not nearly enough. Oddly the Cubs are acting much more like a small market team than the White Sox are. You would think that they would go into a full rebuild and yet they're rebuilding on the fly which almost never works. Just observations, I have no rooting interest at all.
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Re: MLB 2014

Post by OkieinTexas »

cortez the killer wrote:Image
2013-14 Offseason Spending (in millions)


That is amazing, Cortez. Not sure who to blame, the Yanks or O's.

I think baseball has to institute some kind of soft or hard cap on payroll. But this story presents another side, so what do I know.
What do you guys think?

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24350073/no-baseball-still-doesnt-need-a-salary-cap
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Re: MLB 2014

Post by beantownbubba »

OkieinTexas wrote:I think baseball has to institute some kind of soft or hard cap on payroll. But this story presents another side, so what do I know.
What do you guys think?

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24350073/no-baseball-still-doesnt-need-a-salary-cap


I'm glad I read the article before posting because I would have said more or less the same thing w/out the data. In a word, salary caps are a scam by owners to redivide the pie as between players and owners in the owners' favor and to save owners from their own worst impulses (cause capitalism is only good when it's the other guy fucking up). Caps have nothing to do w/ fielding competitive teams, although poorly managed teams (organizational management, not game management) love to pass the buck (so to speak) in order to avoid blame for their own failures. I have a general sense that the sometimes incredible revenue disparity between major league teams might lead to real problems but so far it mostly hasn't and the failure of teams to work out a better revenue sharing arrangement has nothing to do w/ the players. The owners don't seem all that fired up to "restore competitive balance" when the money comes from their pockets. Funny how that works.
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Re: MLB 2014

Post by Slipkid42 »

cortez the killer wrote:Image
2013-14 Offseason Spending (in millions)


No owner needs to die more than Peter Fuckin' Angelos.
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Re: MLB 2014

Post by StevieRay »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:I guess what it looks like to me is that they're not acting like a small market team. They've spent some money on the farm system but not nearly enough. Oddly the Cubs are acting much more like a small market team than the White Sox are. You would think that they would go into a full rebuild and yet they're rebuilding on the fly which almost never works. Just observations, I have no rooting interest at all.


This rebuilding on the fly business is something the WS have been trying to do since 2005. Their logic is they cannot afford to not at least appear competitive. The Cubs might be able to afford this across town because fans of that team will buy tickets anyway... but, Sox fans barely make it to the park even when the team is over .500. This should be an interesting year on the south side - Frank Thomas entering the HOF, Paulie transitioning from middle-of-the-order anchor to part time DH/pinch hitter/ bench "mentor" - etc. (nice to see him handle himself in the classy way as always); and, the aforementioned Abreu showing the fans what he can do... Now if they could just somehow put the Farmio/DJ radio team out to pasture (without parallel the worst in all of sports) - all would be well in White Sox land. The AL Central looks to be a fun brand of baseball - Indians are going to be gritty and over .500, is this the year KC makes the playoffs (?), Tigers might have addition by subtraction without Prince Fielder demonstrating belly-flop technique on the base paths, and, Minn. finally got Joe Mauer transitioned to first + added some pitching via free agency (although I doubt they are over .500).

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