NFL 2016

[Markalanbishop]

Didn't see this coming, seems a little over the top. On the other hand, I'm listening to The Big To Do so fuck it.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Public opinion seems to be overwhelmingly in favor of the Brady suspension and the punishment if the Patriots. Virtually every talking head is on Goodell's side. I don't get it and I'm not a Patriots or a Brady fan. In fact I've always thought he was a smarmy bastard regardless of how good he is. Still this is nonsense. Beating women, rape and murder are seemingly not treated with this kind of gravity. Plus what are the goddamn rules? Where are the standardized punishments stated clearly and concisely? I hope Robert Kraft takes his buddy to court on this and wins. Then and only then will there become clear rules and punishments. Leave it to Goodell to make me sympathetic to Brady and the Patriots.

[Iowan]

Public opinion seems to be overwhelmingly in favor of the Brady suspension and the punishment if the Patriots. Virtually every talking head is on Goodell's side. I don't get it and I'm not a Patriots or a Brady fan. In fact I've always thought he was a smarmy bastard regardless of how good he is. Still this is nonsense. Beating women, rape and murder are seemingly not treated with this kind of gravity. Plus what are the goddamn rules? Where are the standardized punishments stated clearly and concisely? I hope Robert Kraft takes his buddy to court on this and wins. Then and only then will there become clear rules and punishments. Leave it to Goodell to make me sympathetic to Brady and the Patriots.

I think it was an appropriate punishment, based on the complete and utter disregard for playing within the rules that's been part of this organization for the better part of a decade.

I think the punishments for crimes against humanity are laughably inappropriate (because they don't even come close to far enough).

[beantownbubba]

the complete and utter disregard for playing within the rules that's been part of this organization for the better part of a decade.

Do they play w/ 12 men on the field?
Do they get extra draft choices?
Do they get draft choices higher than what they "earn" by their finish in the standings?
Do their players use banned substances more than any other team's players?
Do they play out of their size and weight class? Oh. Wait. This is professional football, not 7 man high school ball.

Maybe you mean that they provide the injury report w/ the bare minimum of data. Now copied by virtually other team.
Maybe you mean that they don't overvalue high draft choices and appropriately value middle round draft choices. Now copied by many other organizations.
Maybe you mean that they try new things that nobody's thought of before that then get copied by other teams or banned by the league.
Maybe you mean that they dump players, even popular players a year too soon rather than a year too late, which would be copied by every other team if they knew how to do it.
Maybe you mean that they take players dumped by other organizations and [re]turn them into stars, which completely mystifies other teams who in each case had the exact same opportunity to sign those players that the Patriots did

Or, in other words, what the fuck are you talking about? This is totally and completely out of hand and into the land of the irrational.

[Zip City]

Or they record other teams walk throughs to spy on their playbook

[Tequila Cowboy]

Public opinion seems to be overwhelmingly in favor of the Brady suspension and the punishment if the Patriots. Virtually every talking head is on Goodell's side. I don't get it and I'm not a Patriots or a Brady fan. In fact I've always thought he was a smarmy bastard regardless of how good he is. Still this is nonsense. Beating women, rape and murder are seemingly not treated with this kind of gravity. Plus what are the goddamn rules? Where are the standardized punishments stated clearly and concisely? I hope Robert Kraft takes his buddy to court on this and wins. Then and only then will there become clear rules and punishments. Leave it to Goodell to make me sympathetic to Brady and the Patriots.

I think it was an appropriate punishment, based on the complete and utter disregard for playing within the rules that's been part of this organization for the better part of a decade.

I think the punishments for crimes against humanity are laughably inappropriate (because they don't even come close to far enough).

Do you honestly think they're any worse than any other organization trying to win? I think they're all doing it and a half dozen quarterbacks have admitted to liking the footballs inflated a certain way. I agreed with the Saints punishment because it involved something where players could get injured and thus affecting their livelihoods and even their quality of life. This, while a bit troubling, is minor in the big scheme. Since there no firm rules and punishments attached a small fine and a complete overhaul of the policies regarding football, complete with stern punishments for violating the new rules, would have been appropriate.

I'll add this, every single college program in the country cheats in any possible to gain a winning edge. It's built into the culture and everyone accepts it while pretending it doesn't happen and virtually every player in the NFL comes up through that system. How does the NFL think it can change that with arbitrary judgements not based on clear, punitive measures tied to violations of the rules?

[Tequila Cowboy]

Or, in other words, what the fuck are you talking about? This is totally and completely out of hand and into the land of the irrational.

Your honor, I enter this into evidence. While Bean is one of my favorite people and a dear friend we rarely agree on anything about the NFL or the Patriots in particular and Roger Goodell has us agreeing on both. If this doesn't show the ridiculousness of this "punishment" nothing does. I rest my case.

[Cubfan06]

There is no smoking gun in that report. No clear evidence that substantiates Brady knew about the deflation of the footballs. There is speculation, but still nothing concrete. It is comical that the Wells Report was leaked days before this judgement, so Goddell and the NFL could feel out the court of public opinion so that they wouldn't get a Ray Rice-esque black eye in the court of public opinion. That isn't being a good leader of men, it is being a pussy who is covering his ass.

I am unfortunately a Bears fan, who has very little skin in the game. I have no allegiance towards the Patriots or Brady, although I have respected the greatness that each has been accomplished in their respective crafts. This further exemplifies the fact that Roger Goddell's NFL is a joke. Arbitrary suspension lengths, in which many times the punishment doesn't fit the crime. A place where punishment is sometimes not served for serious offenses and witch hunts without proof appeal to the masses.

Just one question to leave the masses. The NFL is a company not a court of law. Would you give the NFL your phone records in good faith to review? Not a chance. I would have done the same as Brady.

[Iowan]

The Patriots have been caught cheating twice. The NFL had to do something. No matter what, someone was going to be pissed off, but there was a strong public sentiment that the Patriots are cheaters and get away with it because they're really good too, and make the league money. So they chose to fire a shot across the bow.

I agree that the NFL throws ludicrous penalties out there all the time. I just think this is one I agree with.

To whomever brought up the point that this happens at the collegiate level and becomes ingrained at the next level, I couldn't agree more. The NCAA hands out the most arbitrary and capricious penalties known to man. Then they don't stand by them if the school penalized draws enough water. ISU had a player miss an entire season because a guy he played ball with in Germany took money from someone while they were playing together, which in the eyes of the NCAA made the entire team professional. The exact same thing happened with a Kansas player and he was ruled eligible.

The bottom line is that sports organizations are notorious for bowing to the most powerful outfits in their organization, and for once the NFL didn't do that.

[Bill in CT]

Or they record other teams walk throughs to spy on their playbook

They didn't actually do that.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3395152

[Tequila Cowboy]

The Patriots have been caught cheating twice. The NFL had to do something. No matter what, someone was going to be pissed off, but there was a strong public sentiment that the Patriots are cheaters and get away with it because they're really good too, and make the league money. So they chose to fire a shot across the bow.

So put them on double secret probation or something, try to prove that you don't favor them because they're your cash cow (despite that fact that you do and they are with good reason). As Ryan said above Goodell basically put the report out there, stuck his finger in the air and checked which way the wind was blowing. It was breaking bad on teh Pats and Brady so this is what he did. It's exactly this which makes it ludicrous.

The bottom line is that sports organizations are notorious for bowing to the most powerful outfits in their organization, and for once the NFL didn't do that.

I get it, but have some evidence. Don't make a giant statement when you don't have it. Also, and this is something I just saw a couple of hours ago, do you know what the fine is for this offense as stated in the rule book? $25K. For real. Not $1 million, a 1st and a 4th round draft pick and whatever losing your star, shit the league's , for 4 games with whatever that might be worth in dollars. This is a punishment that was not for this offense but rather a cumulative one for being the NFL's poster children and concurrently their sketchy, bend the rules to the breaking point team. The NFL was all fine with this dichotomy before but now the public wants a hangin' and this is what they do.

Lastly how can they get up there and say with a straight face this is for "the integrity of the league"? This league has no integrity and everyone knows it. Why start now? Racists call it the "National Felons League" to be cute (well and hateful at the same time), women are its fastest rising audience share while they turn their backs on the rapists and domestic abusers and everyone gets all jolly on Sundays. I'm as guilty as the next person on this too, but I see the NFL for what it is, a league of big angry monsters who perform to entertain us on Sundays while lawyers and bankers count the money. None of that has anything to do with integrity.

[Cubfan06]

Just to expand upon and support my previous post.

Brady (god bless him) made a deal with the devil at some point. Mutherfucker has 4 rings and is getting player-hated from all sides around him. He has a super-model wife. I would hope that he has nude photos of her on his phone. He also hangs out with the likes of Pro-Golfers like Keegan Bradley, George Clooney, Michael Jordan, Matt Damon, and Ben Affleck. Perhaps he even has a mistress. There could be some dirt in text messages. Not a chance I hand my phone over to the NFL entrusting that the information on there doesn't leak out through third parties. NFW.
Is there possibly evidence on his phone? Probably as well. But his personal phone isn't the NFL's property. And they have proven to be leaky faucet in the recent past with information. Shit, two days before he was suspended the reports were coming out that it was going to happen. There is probably information there that could have left some of his high-profile buddies and wife in a media shit storm. And I respect him for not giving his phone to the NFL.

Where is the NFL's accountability for this fiasco? Did the NFL's referees notice the under-inflated balls before they reached the playing field? Why did they not have a safe-net in place? Did they take action to fix their own internal system so that under-inflated balls do not reach a line of scrimmage? I haven't heard them discuss that. Nor have a seen them take a lot of accountability for much under Roger Goddell's watch....oh that's right, they did once. When they gave Ray Rice a 2 game suspension for beating his wife in a hotel elevator on camera. A tape which was delivered to the league office. Not only until TMZ leaked the tape, did Roger Goddell (in the face of public opinion again) properly assign double jeopardy on the Rice case.

Goddell is a douche.

[beantownbubba]

based on the complete and utter disregard for playing within the rules that's been part of this organization for the better part of a decade.

The Patriots have been caught cheating twice.

Note the distance between those statements, even assuming that the second time is real. Twice is more than a coincidence, less than a pattern and nowhere near "complete and utter disregard" of the rules.

Last I heard, the Pats will not have the Championship ceremony w/out Brady so the NFL's opening game is going to lack a little pizzazz and the media focus will be on anything but the game. For now the chant is "No Brady, No Banner" though I'm sure there will be a number of others between now and then.

What I've been arguing from the beginning is that the NFL needed to handle this in a way that made it go away. A way that was definitive and either satisfied everybody (unlikely) or satisfied nobody in the way all good compromises do, i.e. leaving all parties vaguely disgruntled but not so much that they're willing to carry the torch any further. It has failed completely.

I blame Clams.

[Iowan]

You guys can argue until you're blue in the face, but the reality is that the Patriots are viewed as an organization that breaks the rules and gets away with it. The NFL is responding to public pressure based off of that perception. Which is kind of logical for an organization that makes it's money off of entertainment.

They are absolutely inconsistent in their punishments, and have given the message that they view cheating in their game as a bigger issues than beating your wife, which is completely fucked.

Part of me wants to see this as the league taking a step towards reigning the garbage of the not so distant past in a little bit, and maybe that's why I'm fine with it. I'm sure it's not, but it would be nice to see. Or, while I believe both Belichik and Brady to be the best at what they do, their indifference for following the rules bothers me and I get a little satisfaction from their comeuppance. Probably both.

Knee jerk reaction as your policy is a bad one, but I like the result here and naively hope it's a sign of future improvement from the league.

[Tequila Cowboy]

What I've been arguing from the beginning is that the NFL needed to handle this in a way that made it go away. A way that was definitive and either satisfied everybody (unlikely) or satisfied nobody in the way all good compromises do, i.e. leaving all parties vaguely disgruntled but not so much that they're willing to carry the torch any further. It has failed completely.

Yes, yes, yes! This what I meant when I said "double secret probation" or something. Throw a bone to the people that felt they needed one, let the Patriots know they were on notice and, sure, slap around some meaningless fines but for heaven's sake don't talk to us about integrity and bullshit like that as if you're Moses coming down from the mount. Keep it low key and quiet and don't let the masses talk about what douchebags you are. Umm yeah. Epic. Fail.

I blame Clams.

As you should.

[beantownbubba]

Now Ted Wells weighs in: "I'm independent. Really. I am." I have no wish to debate the substance of his comments. Again, the mere fact that he felt the need to make them shows just how much of a never ending clusterfuck this has become and will continue to be.

[Swamp]

You guys can argue until you're blue in the face, but the reality is that the Patriots are viewed as an organization that breaks the rules and gets away with it. The NFL is responding to public pressure based off of that perception. Which is kind of logical for an organization that makes it's money off of entertainment.

They are absolutely inconsistent in their punishments, and have given the message that they view cheating in their game as a bigger issues than beating your wife, which is completely fucked.

Part of me wants to see this as the league taking a step towards reigning the garbage of the not so distant past in a little bit, and maybe that's why I'm fine with it. I'm sure it's not, but it would be nice to see. Or, while I believe both Belichik and Brady to be the best at what they do, their indifference for following the rules bothers me and I get a little satisfaction from their comeuppance. Probably both.

Knee jerk reaction as your policy is a bad one, but I like the result here and naively hope it's a sign of future improvement from the league.

Complete agreement however I see no future improvement from the league.

[Tequila Cowboy]

You guys can argue until you're blue in the face, but the reality is that the Patriots are viewed as an organization that breaks the rules and gets away with it. The NFL is responding to public pressure based off of that perception. Which is kind of logical for an organization that makes it's money off of entertainment.

They are absolutely inconsistent in their punishments, and have given the message that they view cheating in their game as a bigger issues than beating your wife, which is completely fucked.

Part of me wants to see this as the league taking a step towards reigning the garbage of the not so distant past in a little bit, and maybe that's why I'm fine with it. I'm sure it's not, but it would be nice to see. Or, while I believe both Belichik and Brady to be the best at what they do, their indifference for following the rules bothers me and I get a little satisfaction from their comeuppance. Probably both.

Knee jerk reaction as your policy is a bad one, but I like the result here and naively hope it's a sign of future improvement from the league.

I really thought I was done here and I don't mean to to continue to hammer your opinions, I really don't, but some of this is what bothers me the most about this. First, sure their business is entertainment but to a significant portion of their fan base this stuff is deadly serious and they play into that by injury reports as a wink wink, nod nod to the gamblers to marketing to meatballs directly. If you're going to do that you can't be arbitrary and pander to opinion. The violation carried a fine of $25K, if they wanted to do more on top to appease the New England hate they could have put them on some sort of probation. The odd thing there of course is that the Wells reported exonerated the organization only calling out Brady.

Belichick is smarter than the league. He's the kind of guy that pushes the rules until they bend of break. People hate those guys unless of course they're on your side. Wanting "comeuppance" is jealousy, sorry, it just is. In response to NE's constant rule bending/breaking they should either loosen the rules to allow everyone to follow their lead, or tighten them to close the holes. Punishment above standard, written responses to violations only makes the league look stupid and they've never looked stupider than they do this week. The machinations of this league have overshadowed the game and I'm frankly not sure I want to follow it anymore. The fact that I feel compelled to defend people I don't like makes it worse. Your league has no integrity, fix that or embrace it and let it be the wild, Wild West. Either would be better than this.

[Iowan]

You guys can argue until you're blue in the face, but the reality is that the Patriots are viewed as an organization that breaks the rules and gets away with it. The NFL is responding to public pressure based off of that perception. Which is kind of logical for an organization that makes it's money off of entertainment.

They are absolutely inconsistent in their punishments, and have given the message that they view cheating in their game as a bigger issues than beating your wife, which is completely fucked.

Part of me wants to see this as the league taking a step towards reigning the garbage of the not so distant past in a little bit, and maybe that's why I'm fine with it. I'm sure it's not, but it would be nice to see. Or, while I believe both Belichik and Brady to be the best at what they do, their indifference for following the rules bothers me and I get a little satisfaction from their comeuppance. Probably both.

Knee jerk reaction as your policy is a bad one, but I like the result here and naively hope it's a sign of future improvement from the league.

I really thought I was done here and I don't mean to to continue to hammer your opinions, I really don't, but some of this is what bothers me the most about this. First, sure their business is entertainment but to a significant portion of their fan base this stuff is deadly serious and they play into that by injury reports as a wink wink, nod nod to the gamblers to marketing to meatballs directly. If you're going to do that you can't be arbitrary and pander to opinion. The violation carried a fine of $25K, if they wanted to do more on top to appease the New England hate they could have put them on some sort of probation. The odd thing there of course is that the Wells reported exonerated the organization only calling out Brady.

Belichick is smarter than the league. He's the kind of guy that pushes the rules until they bend of break. People hate those guys unless of course they're on your side. Wanting "comeuppance" is jealousy, sorry, it just is. In response to NE's constant rule bending/breaking they should either loosen the rules to allow everyone to follow their lead, or tighten them to close the holes. Punishment above standard, written responses to violations only makes the league look stupid and they've never looked stupider than they do this week. The machinations of this league have overshadowed the game and I'm frankly not sure I want to follow it anymore. The fact that I feel compelled to defend people I don't like makes it worse. Your league has no integrity, fix that or embrace it and let it be the wild, Wild West. Either would be better than this.

My collection of Bill Belichik voodoo dolls is large and gruesome.

I actually respect what those guys have accomplished, and won't hesitate to call Belichik the best coach in the league and maybe the history of the game. Which is why these tiny cheats bug the hell out of me. He's so far beyond that he doesn't need to do this shit to beat everybody. It's like a drag race where one guy clearly has the fastest car, is going to win, but he's dumping sugar in the opponent's gas tank when no one is looking.

[Tequila Cowboy]

So here is the closest comp to the deflated balls case. In 2012 the Chargers were accused and fined for putting stickum on footballs, essentially doing the exact same thing, altering balls for a competitive advantage, the Patriots were accused of. They were fined $20K. New England was fined a 1st and 4th round draft pick and their star QB got a 4 game suspension and a $1 million fine. With that case in mind how is this one NOT complete bullshit? Arbitrary and integrity are not two words that go together very well.

San Diego Chargers fined $20K by NFL in towel case

[sg207]

Or what about the Vikings game earlier this year where they were trying to heat up the footballs on the sidelines? They were simply told to stop.

[sg207]

[Flea]

Never thought I would say this, but I'm so tired & disgusted by the entitlement mentality in the league that extends from the Commissioner's office to the owners/management teams to the players that I may cancel my Sunday Ticket this year.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Never thought I would say this, but I'm so tired & disgusted by the entitlement mentality in the league that extends from the Commissioner's office to the owners/management teams to the players that I may cancel my Sunday Ticket this year.

I just did that. I'm pretty disgusted with the NFL.

[Iowan]

So here is the closest comp to the deflated balls case. In 2012 the Chargers were accused and fined for putting stickum on footballs, essentially doing the exact same thing, altering balls for a competitive advantage, the Patriots were accused of. They were fined $20K. New England was fined a 1st and 4th round draft pick and their star QB got a 4 game suspension and a $1 million fine. With that case in mind how is this one NOT complete bullshit? Arbitrary and integrity are not two words that go together very well.

San Diego Chargers fined $20K by NFL in towel case

I'm not making that argument.

If there's no Spygate, this is handled with a fine and no one cares. This is an arbitrary punishment, but for an organization that continues to get press for bending and breaking the rules, I don't feel sorry for them. The NFL is not a court of law. It's a collection of wealthy entertainers. I just can't muster up any kind of outrage over a guy who had an entire rule change built around him getting a 4 game suspension. I'm not so much jealous of Belichik/Brady as I am incapable of feeling sorry for them getting punished for continuing to break the rules. The NFL flipped out because fans were outraged. Fans were outraged because the Patriots have earned a reputation as cheaters. Cheating despite being better than everyone already.

I guess I think it's kind of silly to demand that the NFL operate like we expect our government to. I would prefer it be that way, but at the end of the day, it's entertainment and it's going to be responsive to public whims.

[beantownbubba]

So here is the closest comp to the deflated balls case. In 2012 the Chargers were accused and fined for putting stickum on footballs, essentially doing the exact same thing, altering balls for a competitive advantage, the Patriots were accused of. They were fined $20K. New England was fined a 1st and 4th round draft pick and their star QB got a 4 game suspension and a $1 million fine. With that case in mind how is this one NOT complete bullshit? Arbitrary and integrity are not two words that go together very well.

San Diego Chargers fined $20K by NFL in towel case

I'm not making that argument.

If there's no Spygate, this is handled with a fine and no one cares. This is an arbitrary punishment, but for an organization that continues to get press for bending and breaking the rules, I don't feel sorry for them. The NFL is not a court of law. It's a collection of wealthy entertainers. I just can't muster up any kind of outrage over a guy who had an entire rule change built around him getting a 4 game suspension. I'm not so much jealous of Belichik/Brady as I am incapable of feeling sorry for them getting punished for continuing to break the rules. The NFL flipped out because fans were outraged. Fans were outraged because the Patriots have earned a reputation as cheaters. Cheating despite being better than everyone already.

I guess I think it's kind of silly to demand that the NFL operate like we expect our government to. I would prefer it be that way, but at the end of the day, it's entertainment and it's going to be responsive to public whims.

Because so many people care so much about the NFL, apparently many more than care about your average every day miscarriage of justice in the courts, this will prove to be an interesting social experiment. You're right to say that the NFL is not a government agency or a court and is not subject to those rules*. Which makes this a much more "pure" case for experimentation. What do people expect from their institutions? How far can an institution go before it loses legitimacy? What is the balance between legitimacy as an institution and popularity/acceptance (boxing or the
WWE, anyone?). This is one instance. It is not going to make or break the NFL. But it is part of the evolving environment in which the NFL operates. Personally I don't believe Goodell is up to the task, but we'll all get to find out together.

*And yet, at least anecdotally, people seem to care a lot more about actual and perceived fairness in their games than they do in their justice system. Go figure.

[sg207]

Because so many people care so much about the NFL, apparently many more than care about your average every day miscarriage of justice in the courts, this will prove to be an interesting social experiment.

Depressing, but also undeniably so.

[John A Arkansawyer]

Nation Entranced as Supermodel’s Husband Is Implicated in Ball Firmness Scandal

While best known internationally as the husband of Brazilian supermodel Gisele Bündchen, Brady is revered and loathed in equal parts in the United States as one of the most popular and skillful players of American football, which bears no resemblance to the internationally beloved sport of the same name. With his movie-star looks and stylish apparel, Brady cuts an unusual figure in a sport whose players are more typically celebrated for embodying the traditional machismo long glorified in American culture. But his unusual image is appropriate for the captain of one of the game’s most elite and glamorous squads, the New England Patriots.

Hailing from the prosperous northeast region of the country, the Patriots’ nickname refers to the anti-colonialist guerilla fighters who waged a bloody insurgency against the occupying British army in America’s war of independence, but these Patriots are hardly scrappy rebels...

[maxjkugel]

http://www.denverpost.com/lunchspecial/ ... barrassing

[beantownbubba]

http://www.denverpost.com/lunchspecial/ ... barrassing

I think this is exactly right: The Patriots make some good points but then undercut themselves by making some, shall we say, less than compelling ones. Kind of like, ummmm, The Wells Report. What a fiasco. Plenty of embarrassment to go around.