Critics: Love 'Em or Hate 'Em?

[dime in the gutter]

good thread.

why is it not in the music forum?

I think it's taken a music turn but I was including film criticism when I started it as well.

makes sense.

[tinnitus photography]

You couldn't be more correct. Those few that keep their jobs are underpaid and a lot of times they're working without editors at all. I get all of that. In fact in talking with the friend I mentioned above he told me that he stopped freelancing for a arts/entertainment weekly when they told him that they wanted him to keep writing for them but they were no longer able to pay him for his work and then acted hurt when he declined their "generous" offer. It's tough out there.

feel free to substitute 'photographer' for 'writer' at any time here.

[PonyGirl]

feel free to substitute 'photographer' for 'writer' at any time here.

I fear it may be even worse for you guys. Everybody and their second cousin is an amateur photographer these days. Your work is fantastic btw and I am sure it kills you every time you see some crap, amateur photo published where a professionally taken photo should be.

I have a friend who made a great living and got some sweet, free trips, as a first rate travel and adventure photographer and now... things are not good. He also does beautiful work.

[Tequila Cowboy]

You couldn't be more correct. Those few that keep their jobs are underpaid and a lot of times they're working without editors at all. I get all of that. In fact in talking with the friend I mentioned above he told me that he stopped freelancing for a arts/entertainment weekly when they told him that they wanted him to keep writing for them but they were no longer able to pay him for his work and then acted hurt when he declined their "generous" offer. It's tough out there.

feel free to substitute 'photographer' for 'writer' at any time here.

Still sick about the Chicago Sun Times getting rid of their photography staff altogether.

[beantownbubba]

Does the thesaurus have pictures?

[PonyGirl]

Does the thesaurus have pictures?

Sorry Bubster, I think not. You might have to find a different reference book for your auto-erotic needs...

[beantownbubba]

Does the thesaurus have pictures?

Sorry Bubster, I think not. You might have to find a different reference book for your auto-erotic needs...

Darn it. And just when I thought that whole new vistas were opening to get me away from the same old same old.

[Kudzu Guillotine]

Photo by ©DreamWorks/Courtesy Everett Collection

Music Criticism Has Degenerated Into Lifestyle Reporting
In the new paradigm, artists generate coverage by their clothes, hook-ups, and run-ins with the law. What happened to the music?

[StormandStatic]

Daily Beast is more guilty of that than anyone. Plenty of sites cover just music (Popmatters, Stereogum, etc etc), that's kind of a dumb argument.
Now, you could say that music reporting is now political reporting, and that I would buy. Look at sites like Flavorwire, The Atlantic, etc, that's all they do.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Daily Beast is more guilty of that than anyone. Plenty of sites cover just music (Popmatters, Stereogum, etc etc), that's kind of a dumb argument.
Now, you could say that music reporting is now political reporting, and that I would buy. Look at sites like Flavorwire, The Atlantic, etc, that's all they do.

After reading every single review of English Oceans I can see where they're coming from. 80% never really mentioned the music, or if they did it was to say SSC was a rocker or Primer Coat or some other song was "mid tempo". Mostly you got "southern Rock", "road warriors" or other cliches describing the band, not the music. How often do you read about instrumentation in a music review? How about construction of a song? I think there are exceptions in hardcore music mags/blogs but it's very rare.

[Kudzu Guillotine]

The pentatonics segment from American Idol that was mentioned in The Daily Beast article:

[RolanK]

I remember reading the liner notes on my CD copy of Bitches Brew. I think they were taken from some jazz-review around the time it was released, and it went something like "the opening bars of (can't remember what song) starts with a regular G-mixolydian riff, and... bla bla". For people who don't sing or play an instrument themselves, I believe that information isn't really required.

Music to me, first and foremost, is about emotions and feel. Sometimes understanding what's going on may take the magic out of it. I would like to see a balance between overanalyzing music and, as has been pointed out in this thread, pretending that the concept of "bolts and nuts" in song writing, performance and producing never existed.

[Kudzu Guillotine]

I remember reading the liner notes on my CD copy of Bitches Brew. I think they were taken from some jazz-review around the time it was released, and it went something like "the opening bars of (can't remember what song) starts with a regular G-mixolydian riff, and... bla bla". For people who don't sing or play an instrument themselves, I believe that information isn't really required.

Agreed but it is more than telling that Jennifer Lopez is completely fucking clueless. Not surprising but still indicative of many popular music artists. Since no specific publications are mentioned in The Daily Beast article, it makes me wonder which ones they're referring to. I'm guessing it's a sweeping generalization of mainstream publications. I understand how the journalistic aspect of music writing has been put on the backburner but I still find many well informed and well written articles both online and off in publications such as Mojo, Blurt, The Oxford American and American Songwriter. Same thing for websites such as The Bitter Southerner. I know they're exceptions but they are out there. Unfortunately, most of the good writing is lost on the general public but that's probably always been the case. They just don't give a shit.

[RolanK]

I remember reading the liner notes on my CD copy of Bitches Brew. I think they were taken from some jazz-review around the time it was released, and it went something like "the opening bars of (can't remember what song) starts with a regular G-mixolydian riff, and... bla bla". For people who don't sing or play an instrument themselves, I believe that information isn't really required.

Agreed but it is more than telling that Jennifer Lopez is completely fucking clueless. Not surprising but still indicative of many popular music artists. Since no specific publications are mentioned in The Daily Beast article, it makes me wonder which ones they're referring to. I'm guessing it's a sweeping generalization of mainstream publications. I understand how the journalistic aspect of music writing has been put on the backburner but I still find many well informed and well written articles both online and off in publications such as Mojo, Blurt, The Oxford American and American Songwriter. Same thing for websites such as The Bitter Southerner. I know they're exceptions but they are out there. Unfortunately, most of the good writing is lost on the general public but that's probably always been the case. They just don't give a shit.

They are out there, but harder to find I guess. Bitter Southerner is great btw, not only for the music related stuff. Personally I find that blogs and sites like this one to a large extent has replaced what I previously sought in the printed music press.

On a side note, the fact that Lopez as an artist and singer appears to not have a clue about pentatonics as a musical term is puzzling, or perhaps just serve as a proof of what we know about how pop music is produced these days. Obviously she can never have spent any time with real living musicians in the studio.

[Smitty]

http://beardedgentlemenmusic.com/2014/0 ... nji-sucks/

Grrr. That reviewer attitude chaps my ass.

[StormandStatic]

I will admit, negative reviews are really fun to write. But that one just reflects on how everyone loves this album while the reviewer doesn't, so it must suck even more. Boring, reflexive stuff.

[Tequila Cowboy]

http://beardedgentlemenmusic.com/2014/02/11/sun-kil-moon-benji-sucks/

Grrr. That reviewer attitude chaps my ass.

Here's the really bad thing about that review, it was the first thing I read and since I've never been more than a casual fan of Mark Kozelek I guess I really expected the record to bad which, of course, it isn't. I don't necessarily discount records after one bad review but it does often change my priorities when listening to new music.

[cortez the killer]

http://beardedgentlemenmusic.com/2014/02/11/sun-kil-moon-benji-sucks/

Grrr. That reviewer attitude chaps my ass.

Careful. That might be Shakespeare (not to be confused with William).

[tinnitus photography]

that seems like an awfully long review.


ain't nobody got time for that.

[RevMatt]

I could never be a critic because I only want to write about music, films and books that I like. A critic has to not only deliver harsh reviews on works he or she does not like but also write about artists they have absolutely no interest in. There are also conflicts of interest.

I've followed Jim DeRogatis' career since I was eighteen or nineteen. He was a fanzine writer covering the scene in north Jersey while he was studying journalism. By the early nineties he was the music editor for Rolling Stone. He resigned from that job when he refused to remove a negative review he had given to albums from record companies who had paid heavily for advertising. From there DeRogatis moved onto The Chicago Sun Times. He was given journalistic freedom but the price was covering more mainstream music than he was interested in. I am proud of the way he acted in the R. Kelly case.

[PonyGirl]

http://beardedgentlemenmusic.com/2014/02/11/sun-kil-moon-benji-sucks/

Grrr. That reviewer attitude chaps my ass.

I read a review like that, or in this case, half of one, which was more than enough, and the first and only thing that pops into my mind is, "Kozelek must have fucked that guy's girlfriend after a show once..."

Isn't that everyone's automatic reaction to something like that?

I do think that record is a teeny tiny bit overrated, but still really good.

[Tequila Cowboy]

I could never be a critic because I only want to write about music, films and books that I like. A critic has to not only deliver harsh reviews on works he or she does not like but also write about artists they have absolutely no interest in. There are also conflicts of interest.

I've followed Jim DeRogatis' career since I was eighteen or nineteen. He was a fanzine writer covering the scene in north Jersey while he was studying journalism. By the early nineties he was the music editor for Rolling Stone. He resigned from that job when he refused to remove a negative review he had given to albums from record companies who had paid heavily for advertising. From there DeRogatis moved onto The Chicago Sun Times. He was given journalistic freedom but the price was covering more mainstream music than he was interested in. I am proud of the way he acted in the R. Kelly case.

DeRogatis actually was at the Sun Times before he went to Rolling Stone and then returned a few years after RS fired him. My first encounter with him was when he was reviewing an Enuff Z'nuff show in around 1994 that I was at as a guest of their manager (the guitarist for another of his bands was producing my band's album at the time) and he couldn't have been a bigger ass. Future encounters did not change that opinion. That being said I considered what he did in refusing to back off his bad review of a Hootie & the Blowfish album at RS to be really brave and helped expose Jann Wenner as the asshole he is. Honestly I never paid to attention to his work on the R. Kelly case until it was posted here recently but after reading it he certainly did good work. I also listen to Sound Opinions pretty regularly although I rarely agree with either him or Greg Kot as they always seem to be looking for the next big hipster band.

[beantownbubba]

I read a review like that, or in this case, half of one, which was more than enough, and the first and only thing that pops into my mind is, "Kozelek must have fucked that guy's girlfriend after a show once..."

Isn't that everyone's automatic reaction to something like that?

Yup.

[Markalanbishop]

Does the thesaurus have pictures?

What's another word for thesaurus?*







Thank you Steven Wright

[RevMatt]

I could never be a critic because I only want to write about music, films and books that I like. A critic has to not only deliver harsh reviews on works he or she does not like but also write about artists they have absolutely no interest in. There are also conflicts of interest.

I've followed Jim DeRogatis' career since I was eighteen or nineteen. He was a fanzine writer covering the scene in north Jersey while he was studying journalism. By the early nineties he was the music editor for Rolling Stone. He resigned from that job when he refused to remove a negative review he had given to albums from record companies who had paid heavily for advertising. From there DeRogatis moved onto The Chicago Sun Times. He was given journalistic freedom but the price was covering more mainstream music than he was interested in. I am proud of the way he acted in the R. Kelly case.

DeRogatis actually was at the Sun Times before he went to Rolling Stone and then returned a few years after RS fired him. My first encounter with him was when he was reviewing an Enuff Z'nuff show in around 1994 that I was at as a guest of their manager (the guitarist for another of his bands was producing my band's album at the time) and he couldn't have been a bigger ass. Future encounters did not change that opinion. That being said I considered what he did in refusing to back off his bad review of a Hootie & the Blowfish album at RS to be really brave and helped expose Jann Wenner as the asshole he is. Honestly I never paid to attention to his work on the R. Kelly case until it was posted here recently but after reading it he certainly did good work. I also listen to Sound Opinions pretty regularly although I rarely agree with either him or Greg Kot as they always seem to be looking for the next big hipster band.

I think that after a certain age rock critics lose touch with what is happening in the small clubs and rely too much on industry sources for recommendations on new music. Kot and DeRogatis are no different. At 50 years old, I no longer have the energy to attend more than a two or three shows a month. Dero is the same age as me and I am sure it is a whole lot easier to checkout Pitchfork and Metacritic for important bands that he's missed than to spend three or four nights a week at small room rock shows. That being said, I am 75% sure that DeRogatis was at two recent Lee Bains and The Glory Fires shows in NYC; last November at The Mercury Lounge and last February in Brooklyn. I haven't seen Jim face to face since the 80's (my 2001 guest spot on Sound Opinions was done by telephone) but there was a guy at both shows who looks just like current pictures of the rock critic. I should have approached the guy and asked if he was DeRo but everyone was so caught up in the excitement of such a great rock show that suddenly giving a shit about industry heavies in attendance would have seemed so uncool.

[StormandStatic]

Menuck: When I came of age, the big tyranny was Rolling Stone Magazine and Spin Magazine, which were just two different piles of the same shit, and were both definitely oppressive. You never read about bands you cared about in those magazines—bands who were actually making a living on the road. It was some alternate universe where only bullshit mattered. And so I remember at the time, when we were kids, when that Lester Bangs anthology came out, the Psychotic Reactions and Carburetor Dung book—just reading stuff that was coming from a subjective place, and an engaged place, someone who was engaged with the music and with the scene or whatever, was such a “Holy fuck, that’s what missing!” [moment].

But now we’re at a place where there’s all sorts of subjective writing about music all over the place, but it’s not any better than what it used to be.

The Rumpus Interview with Efrim Menuck

[Kudzu Guillotine]

This seems to get at a lot of what's being discussed in this thread.

The Pernicious Rise of Poptimism

[beantownbubba]

This seems to get at a lot of what's being discussed in this thread.

The Pernicious Rise of Poptimism

I didn't quite follow a couple of his leaps but this is mostly really good and on target. But he muffs the finale: "Criticism matters because its virtues are profoundly human ones: honesty, curiosity, diligence, pluralism." That's a might limited range or agenda. If that's all criticism is about why should anyone care? Not that there's anything wrong w/ those virtues, and I basically agree that they're essential to good criticism but they're not what good criticism is about.

Anybody know that Ortiz album he trumpets?

[tinnitus photography]

Anybody know that Ortiz album he trumpets?

http://www.discogs.com/Speedy-Ortiz-Maj ... ter/580710


i've seen (bits of) three of their shows. they are pretty good.

[Smitty]

Four Ways Pop Culture Critics Have Made Themselves Obsolete