MLB 2013

[beantownbubba]

So the KC Royals have declared themselves contenders for the AL Central title w/ one big move. Shocked me that they would go in that direction, but is it anything other than a diss of the other teams in the division? I mean it's the Royals.

Meanwhile the eastern division Sox remain a complete enigma. One columnist recently resorted to assuring the faithful that at least the team would be more likeable this year.

[Tequila Cowboy]

So the KC Royals have declared themselves contenders for the AL Central title w/ one big move. Shocked me that they would go in that direction, but is it anything other than a diss of the other teams in the division? I mean it's the Royals.

Meanwhile the eastern division Sox remain a complete enigma. One columnist recently resorted to assuring the faithful that at least the team would be more likeable this year.

The Royal are LOADED with minor league talent. I would expect them to make a few more moves and be active at the trade deadline if they're in it. The White Sox & Tigers should be concerned.

[Zip City]

I think the Rays bent KC over a barrel with his trade

[Tequila Cowboy]

I think the Rays bent KC over a barrel with his trade

Long term, maybe. Short term I think KC put themselves in contention for their division.

[Zip City]

[LuthierJustin]

[LBRod]

Too soon. I have not finished celebrating the 2012 season.
I am looking forward to the Dodgers collection of high priced talent fail to become a team.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Too soon. I have not finished celebrating the 2012 season.
I am looking forward to the Dodgers collection of high priced talent fail to become a team.

$225 million. Now that's a payroll. Damn.

[Mr. B]

I think the Rays bent KC over a barrel with his trade

Long term, maybe. Short term I think KC put themselves in contention for their division.

We'll see. We've been hearing that the Royals are going to start contending for several years now. Don't forget the Tigers will have a solid starting rotation (Verlander, Fister, Schlenger and a still only 23 years old Porcello) and be better with Tori Hunter and Martinez added to the line-up and a full year of Infante. Bring it on KC.

[Clams]

espn says josh hamilton to the angels, 5 yrs $125M. Was kinda hoping the Phils would get him...

[Gang Green]

Just waiting for this Dickey trade to go down. I totally love the guy, and I'll always pull for him, but when you can fill some critical needs with a 38 year old pitcher, I can't complain, or I shouldn't complain. Good luck RA, I'll buy your book if I don't get it for Christmas.

[Gang Green]

Since baseball season hasn't started, I thought I would share this picture. Yes, that's Craig Nettles in the middle with my boys. This picture was taken in 1996 at the West Ruislip, Military base in England shortly after the Yankees won the World Series. Nettles along with Darrall Evans, Tommy Davis, John Montefusco and a few others were touring all the military bases to help sell MCI long distance service to military families stationed overseas.

[ScottyC]

So the hall of fame announcement will be later today and the rumor is no one will get it. I get why no Bonds, Clemens and Sosa but why no Piazza and especially Biggio? What is maddening as someone who spend every day for a 15 yr stretch of life playing baseball is that Bonds and Clemens would be among the best without the drugs.

Not breaking big news here just glad to have something baseball to talk about. Pitchers and catchers in approx 33 days.

[Zip City]

The baseball writers should be ashamed of themselves. This year's ballot is the strongest in my lifetime, yet no one wil get in.

WE GET IT, PEOPLE DID STEROIDS

One baseball talking head said it best: the Hall of Fame should reflect the steroid era, not make judgment on it

[Tequila Cowboy]

So the hall of fame announcement will be later today and the rumor is no one will get it. I get why no Bonds, Clemens and Sosa but why no Piazza and especially Biggio? What is maddening as someone who spend every day for a 15 yr stretch of life playing baseball is that Bonds and Clemens would be among the best without the drugs.

Not breaking big news here just glad to have something baseball to talk about. Pitchers and catchers in approx 33 days.

The steroid years, in terms of HoF eligibility, are going to be weird. I'd rather see no one get in than second tier guys who would normally not make it get in. that being said I think Tim Raines should be in.

[ScottyC]

So the hall of fame announcement will be later today and the rumor is no one will get it. I get why no Bonds, Clemens and Sosa but why no Piazza and especially Biggio? What is maddening as someone who spend every day for a 15 yr stretch of life playing baseball is that Bonds and Clemens would be among the best without the drugs.

Not breaking big news here just glad to have something baseball to talk about. Pitchers and catchers in approx 33 days.

The steroid years, in terms of HoF eligibility, are going to be weird. I'd rather see no one get in than second tier guys who would normally not make it get in. that being said I think Tim Raines should be in.

TC who are you saying are the second tier guys that are being discussed? I am shocked that Biggio isn't getting in, but I assume it's one of those "he deserves to get in, just not on the first ballot" situations.

[Tequila Cowboy]

I wasn't talking about anyone specific, although despite me liking him I think Raines would be classified that way. I think Biggio unfortunately falls under the suspicion that anyone good in the steroid era is suspect, even though he probably wasn't involved. Next year I think will be the real test of that when Frank Thomas becomes eligible. Thomas was an outspoken critic of steroids, even when that view was unpopular, and most are sure he was clean but I've heard a ton of people say he has to be a suspect simply because he put up great numbers in a time where the majority of players used PED's. Like I said it's going to a very strange few years.

[beantownbubba]

It's obvious but perhaps worth saying anyway: People, including the HOF voters, are still working their way through the steroids era and no consensus has developed about an appropriate way to think about or evaluate it. It was inevitable that Bonds & Clemens weren't getting in this year despite the fact that both had HOF numbers before their steroids use. I'm comfortable w/ that result but for different reasons (Bonds as a just too obvious example of the benefits of steroids - his numbers were insane even by the standards of the era - and Clemens for simply being an asshole and for mailing in his last couple of seasons in Boston). I suspect Biggio has been tarred w/ the acknowledgement of steroid use by Caminiti and the suspicions about Bagwell.

The thing about Bonds for a lot of people is that he was our Babe Ruth - a guy from another era when giants roamed the earth and performed feats that had never been seen before and would never be duplicated; a living myth. When we learned we were duped and the whole thing was a mirage, that was a long and hard fall for a lot of fans, well beyond mere disappointment. That resentment is not going away soon. I think it's somewhat similar for McGuire coupled w/ annoyance at his cutesy evasions for so long. Sosa's a little different - because of the corked bat business I think a lot of people find it easy to dismiss him "simply" as a cheater w/out any of the confusing issues and questions raised by steroids.

I'm guessing it will take at least another 5 years before people come to some kind of consensus about how it should be handled for HOF purposes. Hopefully the results at that point will be consistent and rational w/in whatever framework develops.

And yeah, Tim Raines should be in.

[njMark]

MLB is the main culprit in the steroid era, I can't take credit for this but I heard this rationale this morning and it makes sense to me, players, for years untold, used amphetamines to play and not a peep. Those are PED in my opinion. MLB turned a blind eye to steroids and as usual, employees get blamed, the employer walks off unscathed. I mean does anyone really care that guys used roids? What does it matter? I want to see homeruns. P.S. Go Yankees!

[Tequila Cowboy]

MLB is the main culprit in the steroid era, I can't take credit for this but I heard this rationale this morning and it makes sense to me, players, for years untold, used amphetamines to play and not a peep. Those are PED in my opinion. MLB turned a blind eye to steroids and as usual, employees get blamed, the employer walks off unscathed. I mean does anyone really care that guys used roids? What does it matter? I want to see homeruns. P.S. Go Yankees!

Yeah, I care and I cared when it was happening. When I saw Sammy Sosa start to look like a cartoon with an over-sized head I was disgusted and had a very difficult time watching The Cubs. My other Cub fan friends were all in denial at the time. I also don't watch baseball to watch home runs. The best games are 2-1, 3-2 with great pitchers facing great hitters. 10-9 ballgames aren't much fun. I'd much rather see a skilled pitcher than a skilled hitter if it comes down to that. The steroid era, IMHO, came very close to destroying the game and it did destroy my kind of childlike enthusiasm for it. I don't want any of those guys in. Ever.

[beantownbubba]

I care too. But not as much as TC I guess.

[Tequila Cowboy]

I care too. But not as much as TC I guess.

That's ok, Beantown. I don't think anyone cares as much as me. It really did spoil the game for me. I'm still a fan but my old timey naivete is long gone. Now it's just like every other sport.

[Shakespeare]

MLB is the main culprit in the steroid era, I can't take credit for this but I heard this rationale this morning and it makes sense to me, players, for years untold, used amphetamines to play and not a peep. Those are PED in my opinion. MLB turned a blind eye to steroids and as usual, employees get blamed, the employer walks off unscathed. I mean does anyone really care that guys used roids? What does it matter? I want to see homeruns. P.S. Go Yankees!

absolutely agree. its the biggest reason the writers' self righteousness in trying to make a statement about the steroid era disgusts me. take out "drug users" and "cheaters" and the whole damn hall crumbles. im no medical expert, but baseball's probably the only sport where pure muscle isn't enough to be great. not that steroids didn't help, just that i struggle to see the difference between the stuff sosa and mcgwire and company used and the amphetamines that have been widely accepted for decades. why draw the line at one but not the other?

the steroid flurry happened because every aspect of the game let it happen. fans paid to see mammoth homers, owners paid for those players, coaches and teammates turned a blind eye. baseball needs to just accept all that and move forward. a hall of fame that skips over a key era of the game loses all its legitimacy in my eyes. put guys like bonds, clemens, bagwell etc in with an asterisk if you must, but they were the best of their time and they deserve to be in.

even if this was the "hes a hall of famer, just not a first ballot hall of famer" argument at play, one that i dont really have much of an issue with, this is gonna create a mess down the line as more players come up for eligible and this year's non-class struggles to stay on the ballot.

[Tequila Cowboy]

I don't think you can compare amphetamines to steroids and HGH. The former helps keeps you awake and keeps your energy level up the latter both boost your recovery time between exertion intervals and can promote muscle growth. Some sort of uppers have been part of the game almost since it's inception. Steroids and PED's of it's ilk started to hit the sport in the late eighties. I guess the other thing is there were plenty of sports writers that questioned what was going on while it was happening but were shut down by the media organizations they worked for. They might have been allowed to write a piece or two but the threat of legal action by MLB and individual players to their employers shut them up quick. I also know a lot of fans who didn't like what they saw either but similarly were shut down by people who liked burying their heads in the sand. Rightly or wrongly the game had an innocence about it that was permanently lost in the steroid era. Rather than reaching out to kids and trying to promote the sport on a grass roots level they went for the cheap bucks and slogans like "chick dig the long ball" all while letting these cheating fuckers run rampant. Sorry I just don't buy the argument that it was no different than pharmaceutical pep pills.

[Cubfan06]

I know that it won't happen on the first ballot, but I think that both Clemens and Bonds should get elected due to their performances before their heads doubled in size.
They are electrifying, sport-changing players in the mid-to-late 80's and beyond.
Especially if Craig Biggio gets in. He was a hell of a player for a longtime and definitely worthy, but at his pinnacle no where close impactfully than Clemens or Bonds.

[Shakespeare]

I don't think you can compare amphetamines to steroids and HGH. The former helps keeps you awake and keeps your energy level up the latter both boost your recovery time between exertion intervals and can promote muscle growth. Some sort of uppers have been part of the game almost since it's inception. Steroids and PED's of it's ilk started to hit the sport in the late eighties. I guess the other thing is there were plenty of sports writers that questioned what was going on while it was happening but were shut down by the media organizations they worked for. They might have been allowed to write a piece or two but the threat of legal action by MLB and individual players to their employers shut them up quick. I also know a lot of fans who didn't like what they saw either but similarly were shut down by people who liked burying their heads in the sand. Rightly or wrongly the game had an innocence about it that was permanently lost in the steroid era. Rather than reaching out to kids and trying to promote the sport on a grass roots level they went for the cheap bucks and slogans like "chick dig the long ball" all while letting these cheating fuckers run rampant. Sorry I just don't buy the argument that it was no different than pharmaceutical pep pills.

i know they aren't exactly the same, but theyre both used to get players through a grueling schedule, so i just dont see why one is so accepted and the other is apparently responsible for destroying the game. if you're gonna take the righteous stance on drug users why do decades of amphetamine users get a free pass?

i get the lost naivety feeling you mentioned, though i dont think it's permanently lost at all. the game has shifted back towards those pitchers duel type games we all love, the players aren't giant cartoon characters anymore, and "cheating" means pine tar and stealing signs again. i dont think the longterm damage to the sport is as serious as you do, which is why i dont agree with bringing the hammer down so strongly on the whole era

[Shakespeare]

and there we go. empty class.

[Zip City]

I'm shocked Piazza got so few votes.

I'm not shocked that the dickhead writers kept everyone out.

The same writers who were in the locker rooms every day during the era, probably saw 100's of players taking stuff, yet never felt it necessary to report it.

And now they're trying to act like the moral judges of an era.

Fuck them all

[Slipkid42]

I'll not pontificate on whether steroid era players should get in or not; but I hope Bonds & Clemens never get in. I've always hated those 2. Plus, on top of whatever they did or didn't inject themselves with; they committed perjury. Inducting them wouldn't jibe with keepin' Charlie Hustle (who I also never liked) outta the Hall for a little action on his own team (which he later perjured himself over).

[Zip City]

Better kick out Ty Cobb for running into the stands and fighting fans.