The arguments are interesting. I think the practicing lawyers get the best of it.
Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:34 pm
by beantownbubba
I don't always succeed, but I do try to take my own advice and ignore the ups, downs and spins of the daily news cycle, attempting to save my anger and energy for those things that really matter like, say, the disappearance of a constitutional right via the three card monte game called a Supreme Court opinion. So it took me a few days to notice that the Democratic political establishment and the mainstream media have designated Joe Manchin as the sole water carrier (pun intended) for the defeat of Biden's latest climate initiative. Let me hasten to say that Manchin is a hypocritical sleazeball corrupt politician who I have no interest in defending, but in the context of the US Senate he is merely a garden variety hypocritical sleazeball corrupt politician, not worthy of any heightened degree of scorn. More important, blaming him for the defeat of the climate agenda misses the point entirely and allows the truly blameworthy to skate scot free once again (surprise, surprise).
If TWO Republicans (less than one half of one percent) had voted for the legislation, it could have passed through the absurd reconciliation process. If ELEVEN Republicans (a mere 22%) had voted for the legislation, it would have avoided a filibuster and passed the old fashioned way. INSTEAD, OUT OF FIFTY REPUBLICAN SENATORS, EXACTLY ZERO (that would be zero percent) VOTED FOR THE LEGISLATION. This might conceivably be acceptable if they had proferred an alternative plan, but that is not the Republican way. They don't do policy and they don't recognize science or reality. What that means in plain English is that the Republican Party has made it the official policy of the United States of America to do nothing to address climate change. Of course many of them still believe that human generated climate change is a hoax, even if they don't say it out loud anymore (which I guess counts as progress). But somehow they don't get any of the blame for the failure of the US government to act. How is that possible?
Unfortunately, sometime in the next 1 to 5 years the people of the states that depend in whole or in part on the Colorado River for water are going to be overrunning Washington, screaming for relief from their water emergency. I hope they'll remember that it's not Joe Manchin's or Joe Biden's fault that they will be reduced to parched panicked beggars without a lawn to their names (yeah, right, good chance of that). But one would think that the media and the Democratic Party would notice where the fault lays. Making or allowing Manchin to be the lightning rod for this is factually incorrect, a complete failure of analysis and massively, incredibly stupid. The climate is not a partisan issue nor is it just one more battle in the culture war and treating it as such is literally a deadly mistake.
Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:30 am
by brettac1
A story about the delightful state of affairs in my state. It's a terrifying place to be when you're counting on the most milquetoast centrist Democrat to be your firewall against your state falling into complete collapse, but that's where we are.
One of the points of lining up a clear set of commitments about abortion rights and the 2022 midterm is reconnect those circuits. It’s revealing how novel it is to people that an election could have such a clear, important and concrete consequences — one that will materially affect their lives only months in the future. You get some sense of this in the response to the possible passage of federal legislation to ensure same sex marriage rights across the country, regardless of the actions of the Supreme Court. It seems oddly new to people, uncanny. Can we actually just pass big laws like this? We’re not bound by a packed Supreme Court for years or decades into the future until today’s middle-aged justices die off? The people’s representatives can legislate and settle matters now? That sense of novelty is a warning sign for a civic democracy. Because is actually totally normal. What the overwhelming majority of the public supports should find its way easily into public laws.
Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:26 am
by beantownbubba
I admit to being a long time holdout against changing the filibuster rules. But things in Washington have become so absurd and the filibuster so abused* that I can't object any longer. Even so, I do think that ending the filibuster, either on an allegedly case by case basis or more broadly will surely invoke the law of unintended consequences in very negative ways. But since I can't offer any useful alternative I'll just duck and hope for the best.
*While not the most important point, it continues to gall me that nobody has to actually filibuster to invoke the filibuster; I think that making people actually do the work would cut down on the abuse but there seems to be zero chance of that requirement/reform being instituted.
Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:34 pm
by Clams
Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:56 pm
by brettac1
Hell yeah
Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:48 am
by beantownbubba
As usual I am confused. Why would Republican Senators vote down the bill to aid veterans that they already approved? I know what they're saying, but does that make any sense? It doesn't sound like Mitch McConnell to me and it sounds like a serious error in judgment. Essentially they're refusing to provide benefits to veterans to protest the Democrats' use of the budget reconciliation process to pass a climate, etc. bill because they feel sandbagged that they voted for the semiconductor chip bill that they strongly support and believe advances their "agenda" (such as it is) only because the Democrats said they dropped the climate bill. This is not explainable in a sound bite. This does not resonate on any emotional level while denying benefits to veterans resonates very strongly, particularly among a core Republican constituency. This sounds to me like "inside the Beltway baseball" of the most obscure kind, the very kind of thing that "the base" hates. Never mind that nobody except maybe a half dozen Senators and the Parliamentarian even understand the budget reconciliation process. IOW, this is exactly the way the Democrats regularly shoot themselves in the foot, or maybe the knee. What am I missing? And of course nobody on either side of the aisle has mentioned that the semiconductor chip bill is, you know, socialism.
Edit: Important clarification in the first line to make clear that it was Republican Senators, not "the Senate," that voted down the veterans aid bill
As usual I am confused. Why would the Senate vote down the bill to aid veterans that they already approved? I know what they're saying, but does that make any sense? It doesn't sound like Mitch McConnell to me and it sounds like a serious error in judgment. Essentially they're refusing to provide benefits to veterans to protest the Democrats' use of the budget reconciliation process to pass a climate, etc. bill because they feel sandbagged that they voted for the semiconductor chip bill that they strongly support and believe advances their "agenda" (such as it is) only because the Democrats said they dropped the climate bill. This is not explainable in a sound bite. This does not resonate on any emotional level while denying benefits to veterans resonates very strongly, particularly among a core Republican constituency. This sounds to me like "inside the Beltway baseball" of the most obscure kind, the very kind of thing that "the base" hates. Never mind that nobody except maybe a half dozen Senators and the Parliamentarian even understand the budget reconciliation process. IOW, this is exactly the way the Democrats regularly shoot themselves in the foot, or maybe the knee. What am I missing? And of course nobody on either side of the aisle has mentioned that the semiconductor chip bill is, you know, socialism.
As usual I am confused. Why would the Senate vote down the bill to aid veterans that they already approved? I know what they're saying, but does that make any sense? It doesn't sound like Mitch McConnell to me and it sounds like a serious error in judgment. Essentially they're refusing to provide benefits to veterans to protest the Democrats' use of the budget reconciliation process to pass a climate, etc. bill because they feel sandbagged that they voted for the semiconductor chip bill that they strongly support and believe advances their "agenda" (such as it is) only because the Democrats said they dropped the climate bill. This is not explainable in a sound bite. This does not resonate on any emotional level while denying benefits to veterans resonates very strongly, particularly among a core Republican constituency. This sounds to me like "inside the Beltway baseball" of the most obscure kind, the very kind of thing that "the base" hates. Never mind that nobody except maybe a half dozen Senators and the Parliamentarian even understand the budget reconciliation process. IOW, this is exactly the way the Democrats regularly shoot themselves in the foot, or maybe the knee. What am I missing? And of course nobody on either side of the aisle has mentioned that the semiconductor chip bill is, you know, socialism.
Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:03 pm
by Flea
Fuck all those assholes. The insurrectionists were right for the wrong reasons. Let's burn the whole fucking thing down, go Bastille Day on every assclown who profits from the system, and start over.
Fuck all those assholes. The insurrectionists were right for the wrong reasons. Let's burn the whole fucking thing down, go Bastille Day on every assclown who profits from the system, and start over.
Wow, I bet they could come up with really cool laser guillotines & stuff these days.....
As usual I am confused. Why would the Senate vote down the bill to aid veterans that they already approved? I know what they're saying, but does that make any sense? It doesn't sound like Mitch McConnell to me and it sounds like a serious error in judgment. Essentially they're refusing to provide benefits to veterans to protest the Democrats' use of the budget reconciliation process to pass a climate, etc. bill because they feel sandbagged that they voted for the semiconductor chip bill that they strongly support and believe advances their "agenda" (such as it is) only because the Democrats said they dropped the climate bill. This is not explainable in a sound bite. This does not resonate on any emotional level while denying benefits to veterans resonates very strongly, particularly among a core Republican constituency. This sounds to me like "inside the Beltway baseball" of the most obscure kind, the very kind of thing that "the base" hates. Never mind that nobody except maybe a half dozen Senators and the Parliamentarian even understand the budget reconciliation process. IOW, this is exactly the way the Democrats regularly shoot themselves in the foot, or maybe the knee. What am I missing? And of course nobody on either side of the aisle has mentioned that the semiconductor chip bill is, you know, socialism.
This is a very enjoyable thing, actually.
The Democratic leadership outmaneuvered the Republicans and got a massively important bill passed. The Republicans threw a hissy and voted against a bill their base supports. I believe you'll see them look for a face-saving way to reverse that vote and I'm hoping the Democrats deny it to them.
I expect that aid package to happen no later than spring 2023, maybe a lot sooner.
The Republicans threw a hissy and voted against a bill their base supports. I believe you'll see them look for a face-saving way to reverse that vote and I'm hoping the Democrats deny it to them.
I forgot possibly the best part--the vote was 55-42. It failed because of the filibuster. One more argument for putting a stake through its heart.
Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit
Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:26 am
by Zip City
The veterans will continue to vote R regardless of this shit show
The veterans will continue to vote R regardless of this shit show
This is the sort of thing that lightly erodes the Republican vote. They don't switch; they do fail to show up. Half a loaf is better than a poke in the eye.
The veterans will continue to vote R regardless of this shit show
This is the sort of thing that lightly erodes the Republican vote. They don't switch; they do fail to show up. Half a loaf is better than a poke in the eye.
If there truly is no room for movement anywhere for any reason we all just ought to pack up and go to the beach, or maybe to the rooftops to wait for some cataclysm a la Independence Day, I think light erosion is more or less accurate; my own version of the concept is that it's not so much that any particular action causes the response of a changed vote; it's more that a series of actions, some more serious and/or personal than others, result in erosion of trust, faith or "lesser of 2 evils" attitudes on the part of some. Or IOW, the realization that "The Republican Party is not your friend." And yes, even if they just don't vote rather than switch allegiance, that's a nice chunk of a loaf.
Fuck all those assholes. The insurrectionists were right for the wrong reasons. Let's burn the whole fucking thing down, go Bastille Day on every assclown who profits from the system, and start over.
So let's say we burn the whole fucking thing down, then we have our Reign of Terror, complete w/ guillotines (laser or otherwise) and then the inevitable dictatorship by military junta or otherwise. Then what (assuming that there is a post-dictatorship era)?
Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit
Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:24 am
by beantownbubba
I must have missed when Congress passed the law that requires that all laws be given incredibly awkward names in order to create cutesy acronyms, but in any case, assuming it actually passes, the "fun" part of the Inflation Reduction Act is for me the revenue side. The spending on the climate/energy side is obviously crucial but it is also obvious. Much more subtle is the 15% minimum tax on large businesses, the increased funding for enforcement for the IRS and, my favorite by far, the end of the carried interest loophole. To me, if it takes hold, this will represent a sea change in the way this country thinks about the revenue (i.e. mostly tax) side of the equation, all for the better. Yes, there's still a long way from here to there but it's not a bad start. By way of awkward analogy, imho this bill advances important changes to the tax system more than the recent gun control bill advanced gun control.
If there truly is no room for movement anywhere for any reason we all just ought to pack up and go to the beach, or maybe to the rooftops to wait for some cataclysm a la Independence Day,
There's nothing wrong in playing for time and waiting for the national fever to break. But if it's rooftops you want, I say Miracle Mile.
I think light erosion is more or less accurate; my own version of the concept is that it's not so much that any particular action causes the response of a changed vote; it's more that a series of actions, some more serious and/or personal than others, result in erosion of trust, faith or "lesser of 2 evils" attitudes on the part of some.
It helps that the January 6th hearings are having an impact. You can tell they are by how hard Trump is trying to get the attention onto himself instead.
Fuck all those assholes. The insurrectionists were right for the wrong reasons. Let's burn the whole fucking thing down, go Bastille Day on every assclown who profits from the system, and start over.
So let's say we burn the whole fucking thing down, then we have our Reign of Terror, complete w/ guillotines (laser or otherwise) and then the inevitable dictatorship by military junta or otherwise. Then what (assuming that there is a post-dictatorship era)?
"Then what" is what we make of it. Nothing is changing short of drastic action. The system is too sclerotic to repair peacefully in my lifetime.
Fuck all those assholes. The insurrectionists were right for the wrong reasons. Let's burn the whole fucking thing down, go Bastille Day on every assclown who profits from the system, and start over.
So let's say we burn the whole fucking thing down, then we have our Reign of Terror, complete w/ guillotines (laser or otherwise) and then the inevitable dictatorship by military junta or otherwise. Then what (assuming that there is a post-dictatorship era)?
"Then what" is what we make of it. Nothing is changing short of drastic action. The system is too sclerotic to repair peacefully in my lifetime.
You need to take the longer view.
Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:50 am
by brettac1
There is not going to be a "longer view" to take at our current rate. Climate change is here and has been here and the people in power still talk about it like it's some hypothetical thing that's coming in 50 years. Even in this supposed "climate" bill that is (maybe?) passing this week, there are provisions for fossil fuel companies. The level of corporate takeover in our government is deeply rooted.
Biden ran on "nothing will fundamentally change" and couldn't keep that promise (unless it only applied to good things). The Senate is an undemocratic institution and obviously people have been smacked in the face repeatedly about the state of the courts. There is no pathway to the type of change that is so desperately needed by just voting really hard. We're already in a position of minority rule and those folks are not giving up that power easily.
Hell, we've been in a pandemic for two+ years and couldn't even do anything to improve the healthcare system at all. That alone illustrates the level of brokenness.
