The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

I don't know how meaningful censure by Congress would be now and in the future, but given a choice between (i) impeachment in the House w/ no hearings whatsoever and no conviction in the Senate and (ii) censure with, say, something close to 2/3 majorities in both Houses (no sure thing I admit), I'm going with censure every time.

I get the impulse towards impeachment. If we were meeting f2f I probably couldn't muster much enthusiasm to argue about it. But as the process is currently proceeding I just don't see a lot of positives coming out of it and I see a number of potential negatives. I assume there's no reason to rehash all the pros & cons but we can do that if people want.

If there is proof that Trump really did conspire or plan with elements of law enforcement or the military or even with members of his administration who "carried out orders", I say let's get that evidence, charge him w/ sedition after 1/20 and have a real trial. Even if he pardons himself before leaving office, I do not believe even this Supreme Court would allow a president to pardon his way out of sedition/insurrection/treason.
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pearlbeer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

I don't know how you have Unity without any accountability or repentance. Sadly, Impeachment is likely our only choice. The Enablers are essentially saying, "I'm sorry your high school daughter was raped at Prom, but, you know, he's graduating and moving out of state for college in a week or two, so, all good right?"

Look at those "Protesters" (terrorists) that are being unmasked. Shocking that so many have military or law enforcement backgrounds. Shit, they just popped an Olympic Gold Medalist. This shit isn't going away. And it DAMN sure won't get any better if we just sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen. Repentance and accountability.

Colbert's monologue from last night is worth a watch.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

pearlbeer wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:40 pm
The Enablers are essentially saying, "I'm sorry your high school daughter was raped at Prom, but, you know, he's graduating and moving out of state for college in a week or two, so, all good right?"
so good i had to use it.

beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

pearlbeer wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:40 pm
I don't know how you have Unity without any accountability or repentance. Sadly, Impeachment is likely our only choice. The Enablers are essentially saying, "I'm sorry your high school daughter was raped at Prom, but, you know, he's graduating and moving out of state for college in a week or two, so, all good right?"
pearlbeer wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:40 pm
Look at those "Protesters" (terrorists) that are being unmasked. Shocking that so many have military or law enforcement backgrounds. Shit, they just popped an Olympic Gold Medalist. This shit isn't going away. And it DAMN sure won't get any better if we just sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen. Repentance and accountability.
I don't know if your post is directed at me, but if it is:

1. Repentance is not in the cards. Trump has made that clear and did so again just this morning. Some of the "folk" have tried to apologize but to me those apologies seem to be of the "I'm sorry I got caught" variety.

2. Impeachment, censure, 25th Amendment, 14th Amendment, whatever. None of that has anything to do w/ any of the insurrectionists who have been or may be arrested, whether they're gold medal winners, members of law enforcement, or your garden variety asshole.

3. I don't know how impeachment w/out conviction accomplishes either accountability or repentance. You can ask Susan Collins about the accountability forced by impeachment w/out conviction. And I don't know anyone who thinks that conviction is even as close as a 50/50 likelihood.

4. Kudos for the rape analogy, but it loses force because of the lack of applicable criminal statutes in this case (call it lack of accountability if you'd like). How does half a loaf of impeachment (w/out conviction) create more accountability than censure, which has the advantages of being a complete action in and of itself and being more likely to be more widely supported across both Houses? I don't think censure is a great solution. I'm not even sure what it accomplishes or what it means, but I do know that if Trump is censured w/ some amount of bipartisanship it is an unambiguous message as compared to impeachment largely along party lines w/out conviction and, as seems likely at this moment, w/out even a hearing.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:51 pm


I don't know if your post is directed at me, but if it is:
Not really...more venting than anything else.

Who knows if/how we force or expect any sort of repentance from the fat, orange thing in the White House. Human traits, conditions and consequences are hard to apply to here.

However, the rest of the "rioters" as well as the 157 Congressmen and women who voted against certifying the result need to be forced to repent or resign.

Don't disagree with anything you are saying btb.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:08 pm
And while we're on the subject of Nazis and ignorance about Nazi history, somebody called Jeanine Pirro, w/ whom I am not familiar but know is on Fox News, so there's a hint, apparently called the social media backlash against Parler "akin to Kristallnacht," thus proving that she either doesn't know what Kristallnacht was or is so fundamentally stupid she shouldn't be allowed out on her own. The relationship between Kristallnacht and banning Parler from Amazon is exactly, precisely, inarguably zero. While a TV "news" reporter or talking head or whatever she is has some greater responsibility to know what the fuck she's talking about, I know that not everybody is as up to speed on the Nazi era as I am. If you don't get this, please ask and I will try to explain it (although I suspect there are plenty of better resources easily accessible on the web).
Whereas in my circles, I've been having to explain that the assault on the Capitol wasn't of nearly the size nor scope of Kristallnacht, which was more like the 1919 Red Summer, which I then have to explain...
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:26 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:08 pm
And while we're on the subject of Nazis and ignorance about Nazi history, somebody called Jeanine Pirro, w/ whom I am not familiar but know is on Fox News, so there's a hint, apparently called the social media backlash against Parler "akin to Kristallnacht," thus proving that she either doesn't know what Kristallnacht was or is so fundamentally stupid she shouldn't be allowed out on her own. The relationship between Kristallnacht and banning Parler from Amazon is exactly, precisely, inarguably zero. While a TV "news" reporter or talking head or whatever she is has some greater responsibility to know what the fuck she's talking about, I know that not everybody is as up to speed on the Nazi era as I am. If you don't get this, please ask and I will try to explain it (although I suspect there are plenty of better resources easily accessible on the web).
Whereas in my circles, I've been having to explain that the assault on the Capitol wasn't of nearly the size nor scope of Kristallnacht, which was more like the 1919 Red Summer, which I then have to explain...
I thought that event was with Patrick Swayze? WOLVERINES!

The Capitol Assault: Like Red Dawn, but with idiots.
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beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:26 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:08 pm
And while we're on the subject of Nazis and ignorance about Nazi history, somebody called Jeanine Pirro, w/ whom I am not familiar but know is on Fox News, so there's a hint, apparently called the social media backlash against Parler "akin to Kristallnacht," thus proving that she either doesn't know what Kristallnacht was or is so fundamentally stupid she shouldn't be allowed out on her own. The relationship between Kristallnacht and banning Parler from Amazon is exactly, precisely, inarguably zero. While a TV "news" reporter or talking head or whatever she is has some greater responsibility to know what the fuck she's talking about, I know that not everybody is as up to speed on the Nazi era as I am. If you don't get this, please ask and I will try to explain it (although I suspect there are plenty of better resources easily accessible on the web).
Whereas in my circles, I've been having to explain that the assault on the Capitol wasn't of nearly the size nor scope of Kristallnacht, which was more like the 1919 Red Summer, which I then have to explain...
Yeah, Kristallnacht as history, metaphor and analogy has been abused all across the political spectrum this week. Although I've only read second hand accounts of it, it seems like Schwarzenegger's video referencing Kristallnacht was one of the better attempts at drawing parallels and lessons. To the extent he was using Kristallnacht as an example of the kind of spark that can lead to horrific ongoing results that may not be obvious in real time, that doesn't seem totally unreasonable to me even if not quite precise.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:18 pm
Yeah, Kristallnacht as history, metaphor and analogy has been abused all across the political spectrum this week. Although I've only read second hand accounts of it, it seems like Schwarzenegger's video referencing Kristallnacht was one of the better attempts at drawing parallels and lessons. To the extent he was using Kristallnacht as an example of the kind of spark that can lead to horrific ongoing results that may not be obvious in real time, that doesn't seem totally unreasonable to me even if not quite precise.
In that sense, I'd agree. I think it's not happening this time through, though. We've seen enough attempts at sparking off conflict fail to think the tinder isn't dry. Not that I'm anxious for them to keep trying it, but I think the fever has broken. What we're seeing now is the diarrhea and vomiting.

If Trump had pulled this shit before he was a public loser, things might've been very different. He really is the perfect warning.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

The Beer Hall putsch is maybe a better analogy.

I don't mind appropriation of Kristallnacht to try and underline how serious last week was. Hopefully it makes people curious and encourages more to read their history. That's no bad thing.

One thing we've learned, when people try to shut down debate by saying "that's just like Hitler", it doesnt necessarily mean they're just being hysterical.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »


Anyone wanna play "Where's Wolf"?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by bovine knievel »

^^^^^^^
Equal-opportunity Wolf

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by dime in the gutter »

305 Engine wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:11 pm
The Beer Hall putsch is maybe a better analogy.
yepper.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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“Excited people get on daddy’s nerves.” - M. Cooley

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

Today in Florida:


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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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“Excited people get on daddy’s nerves.” - M. Cooley

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Trump must be furious and it does my heart good to imagine that. He must realize that he made the wrong decision to slink out of town. By 11 am he was a non person. It was pretty amazing hearing him get dissed over and over again without being mentioned by name during multiple inauguration speeches. And he unintentionally gave Pence a huge boost.

I wasn’t awake when he was supposed to leave town but I assume nobody watched and nobody cared. Did the networks even cover it? He will be desperate to regain the spotlight which is a bad thing but I will bask in the quiet and schadenfreude while he’s out of it.

I can’t imagine that there will ever be a positive historical reassessment of his presidency but at least for his lifetime he will be a strange combination of hated and forgotten.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by bovine knievel »

In a perfect world, nobody would ever say his name or acknowledge his existence no matter how newsworthy.
“Excited people get on daddy’s nerves.” - M. Cooley

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:20 pm
Trump must be furious and it does my heart good to imagine that. He must realize that he made the wrong decision to slink out of town. By 11 am he was a non person. It was pretty amazing hearing him get dissed over and over again without being mentioned by name during multiple inauguration speeches. And he unintentionally gave Pence a huge boost.

I wasn’t awake when he was supposed to leave town but I assume nobody watched and nobody cared. Did the networks even cover it? He will be desperate to regain the spotlight which is a bad thing but I will bask in the quiet and schadenfreude while he’s out of it.

I can’t imagine that there will ever be a positive historical reassessment of his presidency but at least for his lifetime he will be a strange combination of hated and forgotten.
He leaves with the worst approval rating ever, his wife's approval rating is the worst ever, he lost the most jobs ever, had the worst net-economy ever, got impeached twice, lost the Congress, Senate and Presidency...and departed a lonely airfield to "Y.M.C.A."

I didn't get tired of winning, and Mexico didn't pay for shit.

Adios, Fuck-O.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

pearlbeer wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:01 pm
He leaves with the worst approval rating ever, his wife's approval rating is the worst ever, he lost the most jobs ever, had the worst net-economy ever, got impeached twice, lost the Congress, Senate and Presidency...and departed a lonely airfield to "Y.M.C.A."

I didn't get tired of winning, and Mexico didn't pay for shit.

Adios, Fuck-O.
Don't forget the budget deficit which was supposed to be eliminated in 8 years but instead is the largest ever and how easy it would be to win trade wars (the trade deficit is at least the highest it's been since before Obama took office and may be the highest ever, I forget exactly).
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

Picture this: a sad, broke & broken old man in Florida on a beach wearing bermuda shorts, faded hawaiian shirt, worn out MAGA hat using a metal detector to scrounge change so he can make the grade at Golden Corral. The Klingons said it best: vengeance is a dish best served cold.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by bovine knievel »

chuckrh wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:31 pm
Picture this: a sad, broke & broken old man in Florida on a beach wearing bermuda shorts, faded hawaiian shirt, worn out MAGA hat using a metal detector to scrounge change so he can make the grade at Golden Corral. The Klingons said it best: vengeance is a dish best served cold.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Beaverdam »

My family is obsessed with the musical Hamilton; I thought that it was good, but a few months ago they seemingly watched the musical and listened to the songs constantly.

Today the song “You Ain’t Never Gonna be President now...” has been stuck in my head all day!

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

bovine knievel wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:21 pm
chuckrh wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:31 pm
Picture this: a sad, broke & broken old man in Florida on a beach wearing bermuda shorts, faded hawaiian shirt, worn out MAGA hat using a metal detector to scrounge change so he can make the grade at Golden Corral. The Klingons said it best: vengeance is a dish best served cold.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Ty Webb »

god bless Brian Williams, who yesterday refused to call the 45th president* by name, instead referring to him as a "twice-impeached private citizen."
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

Looks like impeachment / accountability is DOA.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/26 ... mpeachment


Gosh, it has been such a long time and I was a much younger man, but can someone remind me how many police officers were murdered when Bill got that blow job?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

Bill was still in office. Bad orange man is not.
Also, it was stupid then, and is stupid now.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

LBRod wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:21 pm
Bill was still in office. Bad orange man is not.
Also, it was stupid then, and is stupid now.
Accountability isn't stupid, nor is it exclusive to current office holders.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

pearlbeer wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:41 pm
LBRod wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:21 pm
Bill was still in office. Bad orange man is not.
Also, it was stupid then, and is stupid now.
Accountability isn't stupid, nor is it exclusive to current office holders.
Impeachment is for holding office holders accountable. If we can apply it to former office holders, W did plenty of bad shit worthy of "accountability."
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff.

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