The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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scotto
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by scotto »

beantownbubba wrote:Condemn is one thing; force or pressure him to resign is another. There's plenty of time for him to resign if, say, Moore w/draws. In the current environment, where one can have no rational belief that there will be reciprocity, it would just be stupid for Franken to resign. The quote above says it quite well so I'll stop being redundant now.
I get that. And this is a tough call. I hate that the Dems choose the moral high ground and lose while the GOP wallows in the mud without consequences. But there's a point where we have to stand up for victims. It's not a matter of investigating: There's a picture of Franken groping a sleeping woman. No matter how sorry he is or how humorous it was supposed to be, some things just should not be acceptable. And we should do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because there'll be a quid pro quo on the other side.
But yeah, this really sucks. I used to love politics. Now I hate politics.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by lotusamerica »

scotto wrote:
beantownbubba wrote:Condemn is one thing; force or pressure him to resign is another. There's plenty of time for him to resign if, say, Moore w/draws. In the current environment, where one can have no rational belief that there will be reciprocity, it would just be stupid for Franken to resign. The quote above says it quite well so I'll stop being redundant now.
I get that. And this is a tough call. I hate that the Dems choose the moral high ground and lose while the GOP wallows in the mud without consequences. But there's a point where we have to stand up for victims. It's not a matter of investigating: There's a picture of Franken groping a sleeping woman. No matter how sorry he is or how humorous it was supposed to be, some things just should not be acceptable. And we should do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because there'll be a quid pro quo on the other side.
But yeah, this really sucks. I used to love politics. Now I hate politics.

OK, but I would say - there's a picture of Franken pretending to get ready to grope a sleeping woman as a joke for the tour photo album.

Still unacceptable, but it's not the same thing as "a picture of Franken groping a sleeping woman." And it's probably less than many of us have done in making "funny" pictures of passed-out drunk friends.

The alleged forceful kissing and ass grabbing are actual violations of someone's personhood - the pretend groping was dumb humor in bad taste and was rude, and it violated someone's honor, but at the same time, this is a person who he may have thought would think it was funny - after all, the photo was taken by the tour photographer for the tour photo album and put in there intentionally - it's not like someone secretly snapped a photo of him privately feeling up a sleeping woman. She says she felt like it was a violation intended to make her look bad, and that's enough to make it wrong, but call it what it is.

---
Similarly, it is incorrect to call Ray Moore a pedophile, no matter how gratifying it is to say it about a man that nasty.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by lotusamerica »

Zip - sounds about right. This is part of what I earlier said I think is the right's form of identity politics - BTB disagreed and offered some cogent thoughts as to how he thought it differed from identity politics. He didn't convince me but he chipped away some. I think the flip side of this coin is that at the same time many rural white people - my people although I don't live among them anymore - feel this way, they also feel that they've been made into a minority by the left, particularly by Obama/Hillary et al., and by the coastal elite/metrosexual/millenial sets with their (all of their) smug assurance of the rightness of their own views (views that I agree with in significant ways except for the smug assurance of rightness and the lack of nuanced thinking involved in many of the conclusions reached). And they are pissed and demanding their "share" - confounding the left who see them as already having privilege that they don't begin to perceive.

In line with the progressive/cultural elite/metrosexual/millenial set,

I do think religious fundamentalism is on the wane and will continue to diminish over the march of time, despite how it seems right now with the temporary backlash of the right, the white nationalism on display across much of Europe and growing right now here, and the resurgence of theocratic/ideogical propagandism clearly taking hold. Science itself will eventually crush most of this, as fundamentalism doesn't just depend on in-group/out-group stuff, it depends on beliefs that will only become more obviously counter-factual as time goes on.

I do think the rein of white men is diminishing, and will be diminish further in time in response to the rise of both Asians and of women as competing power holders.

I do think sexuality will continue to broaden from heterosexual male driven, and even across genders/orientations, although not in as neutered of a form as some on the progressive left would seem to prefer (see the enlightened version of It's Cold Outside video - no, that's not the future).

And I do think that cultured intelligence and ethically-informed technology will ultimately win over the rush to the lowest common denominator and the belief in ignorance and know-nothing-ness.

Tribal fanaticism is the one I don't see how it ends at this point. All of the others I think will diminish in time through the regular course of things, or with a bang here and there as they go out. This one looks a lot like a potential future world war to me - and I think these times feel a lot like pre-WWI and pre-WWII likely did for many people. It's not a fait accompli by any means, but it's the one that I don't see how it will end peacefully...the earth's not getting any bigger and I think competition for natural resources will rise faster than competing cultures will fall....

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

I guess the thing that kills me about the deeply red states (particularly Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas) is that they see no causation between repeatedly voting R while repeatedly heading the lists of most impoverished, least educated, most teen pregnancies, etc. What exactly are the Republicans doing for these folks? How long do you have to see nothing get better before you decide maybe, just maybe, the idiots you keep voting for don't have your best interests in mind?

This is a rhetorical question of course; they would rather vote for a twice-removed judge (and possible pedophile) than a Democrat
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Zip City wrote:I guess the thing that kills me about the deeply red states (particularly Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas) is that they see no causation between repeatedly voting R while repeatedly heading the lists of most impoverished, least educated, most teen pregnancies, etc. What exactly are the Republicans doing for these folks? How long do you have to see nothing get better before you decide maybe, just maybe, the idiots you keep voting for don't have your best interests in mind?

This is a rhetorical question of course; they would rather vote for a twice-removed judge (and possible pedophile) than a Democrat
Because the poor folks aren't those voters. If they have a job making reasonable pay they don't understand why everyone else doesn't do the same. A state legislator in Mississippi said recently that the climate supports a nearly year round garden so there is no excuse for anyone to need assistance for food which is why he favored cutting all assistance. I'm not kidding, he said that and the white people buy it. They also tend to think of poor whites of victims of the system and poor blacks as lazy. Just eating at restaurants around Jackson during the year you overhear these kinds of conversations time and time again. Then they pretend they aren't racist because they're friends with their black coworker or neighbor who obviously isn't lazy because they're in the same economic boat as they are. It's really fucking icky, for lack of a better term.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Smitty »

This transcends politics and may be more apt in the WTF thread, but the bodycam footage of the Mesa, Az cop executing that man is one of most infuriating things I've ever witnessed. The cop's behavior on the video would be appalling even if it hadn't ended in shooting that poor guy at point blank range; it exemplifies the inherent danger that comes with approaching policing with military tactics (although that cop's actions wouldn't be justifiable in any context). I cannot wrap my head the fact that despite the video being shown in court , the jury still acquitted the officer of all charges, which just adds to the existential anxiety I've developed about direction we're heading. I was gonna say something about Maricopa County being as morally bankrupt as my home state, but on further thought I think it's a nationwide disease. I'm afraid we're all fucked.


*The cops in the little podunk-ass town I work have been running up and down the roads this past weekend in a what amounts to a tank, ostensibly due to the freak snowstorm freezing up the roads, which only highlights the absurdity of them a fucking tank in the first place! That's not counting the fleet of Humvees. I guess thats a more productive use of tax dollars than handing out food stamps and healthcare to Tyrone, Jorge or Tammy. smh.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

It's almost like hiring the large majority of the police force with ex-military is a bad idea
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »



on top of the obvious: who the fuck uses "fellowship" as a verb??? :shock:

ETA:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/roy-moo ... s-is-a-jew

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Iowan »

Smitty wrote:This transcends politics and may be more apt in the WTF thread, but the bodycam footage of the Mesa, Az cop executing that man is one of most infuriating things I've ever witnessed. The cop's behavior on the video would be appalling even if it hadn't ended in shooting that poor guy at point blank range; it exemplifies the inherent danger that comes with approaching policing with military tactics (although that cop's actions wouldn't be justifiable in any context). I cannot wrap my head the fact that despite the video being shown in court , the jury still acquitted the officer of all charges, which just adds to the existential anxiety I've developed about direction we're heading. I was gonna say something about Maricopa County being as morally bankrupt as my home state, but on further thought I think it's a nationwide disease. I'm afraid we're all fucked.


*The cops in the little podunk-ass town I work have been running up and down the roads this past weekend in a what amounts to a tank, ostensibly due to the freak snowstorm freezing up the roads, which only highlights the absurdity of them a fucking tank in the first place! That's not counting the fleet of Humvees. I guess thats a more productive use of tax dollars than handing out food stamps and healthcare to Tyrone, Jorge or Tammy. smh.
Police have carte blanche to kill anyone now.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Jonicont »

Smitty wrote:This transcends politics and may be more apt in the WTF thread, but the bodycam footage of the Mesa, Az cop executing that man is one of most infuriating things I've ever witnessed. The cop's behavior on the video would be appalling even if it hadn't ended in shooting that poor guy at point blank range; it exemplifies the inherent danger that comes with approaching policing with military tactics (although that cop's actions wouldn't be justifiable in any context). I cannot wrap my head the fact that despite the video being shown in court , the jury still acquitted the officer of all charges, which just adds to the existential anxiety I've developed about direction we're heading. I was gonna say something about Maricopa County being as morally bankrupt as my home state, but on further thought I think it's a nationwide disease. I'm afraid we're all fucked.


*The cops in the little podunk-ass town I work have been running up and down the roads this past weekend in a what amounts to a tank, ostensibly due to the freak snowstorm freezing up the roads, which only highlights the absurdity of them a fucking tank in the first place! That's not counting the fleet of Humvees. I guess thats a more productive use of tax dollars than handing out food stamps and healthcare to Tyrone, Jorge or Tammy. smh.
I am thoroughly stupified that someone like this can make it onto the force. I recall a 19yo patient who clearly had a number of psych issues. Disappeared and showed up 8 years later in uniform with a pistol. Totally incomprehensible that he passed the Dept. psych evaluation. What fucking doctors are certifying these people
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

Iowan wrote:
Smitty wrote:This transcends politics and may be more apt in the WTF thread, but the bodycam footage of the Mesa, Az cop executing that man is one of most infuriating things I've ever witnessed. The cop's behavior on the video would be appalling even if it hadn't ended in shooting that poor guy at point blank range; it exemplifies the inherent danger that comes with approaching policing with military tactics (although that cop's actions wouldn't be justifiable in any context). I cannot wrap my head the fact that despite the video being shown in court , the jury still acquitted the officer of all charges, which just adds to the existential anxiety I've developed about direction we're heading. I was gonna say something about Maricopa County being as morally bankrupt as my home state, but on further thought I think it's a nationwide disease. I'm afraid we're all fucked.


*The cops in the little podunk-ass town I work have been running up and down the roads this past weekend in a what amounts to a tank, ostensibly due to the freak snowstorm freezing up the roads, which only highlights the absurdity of them a fucking tank in the first place! That's not counting the fleet of Humvees. I guess thats a more productive use of tax dollars than handing out food stamps and healthcare to Tyrone, Jorge or Tammy. smh.
Police have carte blanche to kill anyone now.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

I love hearing so many people from Alabama saying things along the lines of, "we don't need no outsider elites comin' down here to tell us how to vote, " yet they fall at the feet of this Harvard/Georgetown-educated huckster who got rich in Hollywood :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

Jonicont wrote:I am thoroughly stupified that someone like this can make it onto the force. I recall a 19yo patient who clearly had a number of psych issues. Disappeared and showed up 8 years later in uniform with a pistol. Totally incomprehensible that he passed the Dept. psych evaluation. What fucking doctors are certifying these people
In all seriousness, sounds like this is exactly the kind of person they want on the force these days
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »



this is priceless- when Tapper informs him that a politician isn't required to be sworn in using a bible, Crockett becomes literally slack-jawed
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

Holy shit, Jones actually won
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Steve Bannon's wild ride: From svengali behind one of the great political upsets in this country's history, to senior adviser to the President of the United States w/ free access to the Oval Office, to being unceremoniously dumped w/in months, to leading a powerful populist insurgency that struck fear in the hearts and minds of establishments everywhere to bum, all in about 16 months.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

If you thought Trump was a rogue President, just you wait. The more times his advisors tell him to do something that ends up failing, the less he's going to listen to anyone but himself
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

beantownbubba wrote:Steve Bannon's wild ride: From svengali behind one of the great political upsets in this country's history, to senior adviser to the President of the United States w/ free access to the Oval Office, to being unceremoniously dumped w/in months, to leading a powerful populist insurgency that struck fear in the hearts and minds of establishments everywhere to bum, all in about 16 months.
who are you calling a bum?

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

may all GOP leaders and the 650,000 voters in AL who believed that the "alleged" pedophile was a good candidate never be able to rid themselves of the stench from supporting Moore, and may they be relentlessly reminded of it from here forward
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

Wonder how many of the write-in votes were for Nick Saban?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

If Bannon had kept his gin blossom out of this race, would Strange have beaten Moore?

And if so, would Jones have had a prayer against a Republican candidate who wasn't an "alleged" pedophile?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Iowan »

Jones wouldn't have had a chance against a decent human with an R, but that's the real point here.

Wanting the country to be politically homogeneous shouldn't be anyone's goal. What we should strive for is representation by good, honest people who have their constituents best interest at heart. Doug Jones fit that bill far better than Roy Moore. There will be a time when a Republican in a blue state fits that bill, and I hope they win.

The first step to better governance is to have a government comprised of ethical individuals.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Iowan wrote:Jones wouldn't have had a chance against a decent human with an R, but that's the real point here.

Wanting the country to be politically homogeneous shouldn't be anyone's goal. What we should strive for is representation by good, honest people who have their constituents best interest at heart. Doug Jones fit that bill far better than Roy Moore. There will be a time when a Republican in a blue state fits that bill, and I hope they win.

The first step to better governance is to have a government comprised of ethical individuals.
I have always agreed with that theory. I've argued continually that the best way to govern is to have strong conservative and liberal voices hammering out solutions. The imaginary middle people think exists only materializes from that. That said this isn't the time for that. The Republican party has become a group of dangerous individuals embodied by Trump, Bannon and their ilk. Until that changes it's an "us vs them" dynamic. There is a lesson to be learned from Jones win though. He basically only spoke about issues important to real people. He didn't go overly hard at Moore, like Dems mistakenly did with Trump last year, he talked about education and healthcare and things that matter to voters. He didn't talk about party and although his positions on guns and abortion were clear he didn't campaign on them. People will rally behind good individuals who talk about them.

PS.
Bannon is running a whole slew of Moore's in Republican primaries next year and a lot of them will win their party's nominations. Some will have baggage like Moore did. Leave uncovering that to the media. The rest will sort itself out.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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I'd like to remain optimistic about 2018, but there are only 10 Republican seats up for election, and they are in strong red voting states. That said, there has been blowback against the Tea Party/Trump sector of the GOP across several fronts: Virginia, Kansas, now Alabama. Perhaps the moderates in the Republican party are growing some balls and are willing to take back the party
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cubfan06 »

What a great night last night. To Smitty and our other fellow native Alabamans that fought in the trenches to help get this decision right, nicely done and thank you.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by rlipps »

Here's video of Lee and Eric from the Glory Fires driving around in the back of a pickup, playing songs and trying to drum up support for Doug Jones around Alabama on Monday:

https://vimeo.com/246922557

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Zip City wrote:I'd like to remain optimistic about 2018, but there are only 10 Republican seats up for election, and they are in strong red voting states. That said, there has been blowback against the Tea Party/Trump sector of the GOP across several fronts: Virginia, Kansas, now Alabama. Perhaps the moderates in the Republican party are growing some balls and are willing to take back the party
The numbers for the Senate are tough, no question, but Jones put it in play and certainly should stop much forward momentum for the GOP. The House is very much in play though and the Dems should take it with a decent margin, gerrymandering be damned. Doesn't mean they can't fuck it up but I like the odds.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

Zip City wrote:I'd like to remain optimistic about 2018, but there are only 10 Republican seats up for election, and they are in strong red voting states. That said, there has been blowback against the Tea Party/Trump sector of the GOP across several fronts: Virginia, Kansas, now Alabama. Perhaps the moderates in the Republican party are growing some balls and are willing to take back the party
There is now real reason for optimism. The crown jewel up for grabs in 2018 is the Senate. There is a real chance to flip it. Before last night, Dems needed to flip three seats to take the majority. Now, it is down to two, with a seat that (prior to the Moore sideshow) no one would have ever thought possible to flip. There are a number of seats up for grab that are certainly winnable. Arizona, with Jeff Flake out is an option. In Nevada, Sen. Dean Heller is currently the most unpopular candidate in the country. Here in Texas, Ted Cruz is potentially vulnerable.

If the Senate can be flipped, the Trump agenda could be stopped in its tracks. No more judges, no more nominees.
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