The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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Flea
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Flea »

beantownbubba wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:12 pm
Clams wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 3:57 pm
So McCarthy punished the lying freshman from Long Island by putting him on a couple of House committees. I swear, the political and wtf threads should just be combined into one.
To say nothing of the congresspeople who STILL DENY the 2020 election, the 2022 election or both. Plus those who think 1/6 was legitimate political discourse. Plus those who have threatened with varying degrees of seriousness physical violence against other politicians and disfavored groups while speaking favorably about white supremacist, neo-nazi (or outright nazi) and other violent fringe groups. It's quite a collection.
pearlbeer wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:08 pm
...and yet Al Franken was forced to resign for pretending to touch a boob one time.
Some might say that's an inevitable result of or an appropriate punishment for excessive wokeism. I don't know how far I'd take that but they do have something of a point.

The thing about this week in Congress is that it is now clear beyond any shadow of a doubt that to be a Republican is to accept what the Party has become and IS RIGHT NOW, and it is not your father's GOP. There's no way around it: if you're an old fashioned, traditional Republican or what used to be considered a mainstream conservative you either have to actively oppose your party's actions and direction or leave the Party. Anything else is acquiescence at best and more realistically, defending the indefensible.
The only - ONLY - platform plank of the modern Republican Party is "owning the Libs". That is quite literally their only goal.
Now it's dark.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Flea wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:22 pm
The only - ONLY - platform plank of the modern Republican Party is "owning the Libs". That is quite literally their only goal.
I was going to make a hopefully snappy comeback along the lines of "better than owning the slaves." But of course the Republican Party was founded as THE anti-slavery party in this country, elected Abraham Lincoln and won the Civil War and that is one hell of a sad indictment of how far the Party has fallen,
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

pearlbeer wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:08 pm
Clams wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 3:57 pm
So McCarthy punished the lying freshman from Long Island by putting him on a couple of House committees. I swear, the political and wtf threads should just be combined into one.
...and yet Al Franken was forced to resign for pretending to touch a boob one time.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

I suppose it was inevitable that in a fact free universe even the certainty (short of the esoteric theoretical levels) of math would come under attack by the usual suspects. A bill has been introduced in the House to eliminate the income tax and the IRS and to replace them with a 30% sales tax collected by the states. But wait! Note the alchemy that turns a 30% tax into a 23% tax, from Heather Cox Richardson (emphasis added):

The measure repeals all existing income taxes, payroll taxes, and estate and gift taxes, replacing them with a flat national sales tax of 30% on all purchased goods, rents, and services (which its advocates nonsensically call a 23% tax because, as Bloomberg opinion writer Matthew Yglesias explains their thinking: “if something sells for $100 plus $30 in tax, then it’s a 23% tax—because $30 is 23% of $130”). The measure abolishes the Internal Revenue Service, leaving it up to the states to administer the tax.

I actually still remember learning about markups and markdowns in elementary school. I remember being fascinated that the same percentage applied first to a markup of an amount and then as a markdown to the marked up amount would not bring you back to the original amount. I guess the sponsors of this bill were absent that day.

Remember when the common phrase "as phony as a 2 dollar bill could not be used anymore because the govt began issuing 2 dollar bills? Soon the truism that 2 plus 2 equals 4 will no doubt be under attack by the House of Representatives.

Edit: I have no idea why the balance of the post beyond the intended first phrase is all in italics but I've put as much time as i intend to into fixing it to no avail. Apologies.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

It's the most regressive tax system conceivable
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by dime in the gutter »

Zip City wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:19 pm
It's the most regressive tax system conceivable
i've read this for years and years. i don't fully, or even partially, understand what it means. can somebody offer regular dude insight?

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

dime in the gutter wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:40 pm
Zip City wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:19 pm
It's the most regressive tax system conceivable
i've read this for years and years. i don't fully, or even partially, understand what it means. can somebody offer regular dude insight?
It basically means that it taxes poor people more than rich people.

A poor person usually spends 100% of their income on needs (food, housing, gas, whatever), so under this system, 100% of their income would be taxed

A rich person might only spend 5% of their income on needs (while investing/saving/hoarding the other 95%), meaning the vast majority of their money is un-taxed.

The proponents will argue that 5% of a rich person's income is more than 100% of a poor person's, but the tax benefits greatly favor the rich in a sales-tax only system
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Zip is correct but there's more. First I would turn around Zip's last sentence to change the emphasis: the tax burdens greatly disfavor the poor in a sales tax only system.

It's not just the proportion of income subject to tax it's the choices involved. Rich people can choose not to be taxed by not buying something or to buy something less expensive to pay less tax. Poorer people have no flexibility and no choice. Also, you can think about it this way: Some large number of people (I've heard different percentages but let's just say 33% for argument's sake) don't pay income taxes for one reason or another. They are still paying sales taxes and various other taxes but they avoid the large bite that income taxes take. Now 100% of their income is taxed (because they spend it all). That's a huge difference and a huge tilt towards regressivity.

To the extent that savings and investment gains are not taxed (it's not clear from what I've read) it greatly favors those with capital v. those who labor and vastly increases the gap between them.

Also note that most states with sales taxes generally don't tax "staples," however defined. This is an acknowledgement of the fundamental unfairness of taxing, say, milk,bread and some clothing. Taxing those basics is incredibly burdensome for those w/ fixed or low incomes, even middle incomes.

If all services are to be subject to tax, consider health care: How many people already purchase suboptimal amounts of health care because they're un or underinsured and can't afford even basic doctor visits and basic prescriptions? Now you've just made all those costs thirty percent more expensive! How much more out of reach does that make healthcare? How many more people does it move from the "receiving care" to the "can't afford care" column?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by dime in the gutter »

in response to zip.

eta: after reading btb's post.....in responze to him also.

that's about what i thought.

seems to me that if you make essential items (food, meds, housing, gas, utilities, beer...etc) tax exempt.....that it could be an equitable plan.

spend alot of money on non essential, taxable items....pay alot of tax. rich people spend alot of money on non-essential items.

obviously, what is considered essential or non-essential is up for debate. maybe this is where we can socially engineer some good health habits using the power of the dolla bill, yall.

also seems that there is an entire industry set up by lawyers for back tax relief services. More fees for folks who are already behind on fees. American as they come, this beautiful plan.

at any rate....collecting tax instantly, at point of service, will eliminate penalties and vig percentages for the taxpayer.

but i'm just an old, fairly good-natured, redneck, malcontent liberal talking shit.

course you would have millions of cpas looking for work. they are industrious...i'm sure they will be fine.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

"SCOTUS unable to identify source of Dobbs leak"


I'll be the first one to call BULLSHIT.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

dime in the gutter wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:45 pm
in response to zip.

eta: after reading btb's post.....in responze to him also.

that's about what i thought.

seems to me that if you make essential items (food, meds, housing, gas, utilities, beer...etc) tax exempt.....that it could be an equitable plan.

spend alot of money on non essential, taxable items....pay alot of tax. rich people spend alot of money on non-essential items.

obviously, what is considered essential or non-essential is up for debate. maybe this is where we can socially engineer some good health habits using the power of the dolla bill, yall.

also seems that there is an entire industry set up by lawyers for back tax relief services. More fees for folks who are already behind on fees. American as they come, this beautiful plan.

at any rate....collecting tax instantly, at point of service, will eliminate penalties and vig percentages for the taxpayer.

but i'm just an old, fairly good-natured, redneck, malcontent liberal talking shit.

course you would have millions of cpas looking for work. they are industrious...i'm sure they will be fine.
I agree that there are some attractive efficiencies that come w/ a sales tax based system. But the devil is in the details and once you start trying to make exceptions and engineer social policy through the tax code it's hard to stop short of something resembling the mess we have now.

The "flat tax" (everybody pays the same rate but on all their income - no deductions, credits, distinctions between types of income, etc, so all you need to know is your income and the tax rate) is an attempt to achieve many of the same efficiencies in an income based tax system.

There are a lot of problems w/ having states do the tax collecting. Prof Richardson addressed some of these concerns in the original post I took the quote above from. I'll try to post some of that later.

And without a doubt, a fair and simple tax code of whatever type would threaten the livelihoods of many people. Some argue that's a good thing - those presumptively smart, talented people would have to turn their attention to making money in more beneficial ways than by interpreting and manipulating the tax code.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by dime in the gutter »

we are a nation of spenders.

maybe we should tax the spending and not the earning.

again...i'm just turning over rocks. cause the irs sucks.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

for the majority of us whose earned money is documented on a W2, there is very little in the way of leeway re: dodging taxes. it's the people who who businesses, generate wealth from investments, etc that can get creative and get by without paying really what they owe.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by brettac1 »

Do you ever get tired of singin' songs
Like all your pain is just another fuckin' sing along?

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Haven't read the article yet but that blurb sounds 100% on target to me. It's truly unbelievable.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:43 pm
Haven't read the article yet but that blurb sounds 100% on target to me. It's truly unbelievable.
My huge gripe with the coverage is all of the (potential) drama about the consequences of default. I think MUCH more coverage should be focused on the 50 or so people (maybe fewer) that are really solely responsible for this brinkmanship. If you are going to talk about the consequences, we should be VERY specific about assigning responsibility. "Congress / The Government" failed and is broken isn't the headline. It's "There are a few people willing to risk seriously broad financial consequences to grab headlines."

If you are sitting there, watching known arsonists pour gas on a building, the talk track shouldn't be about the petroleum industry.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

In other laughable news the House Oversight and Accountability Committee will receive two new members, who are known for their commitment to accountability.

Marjorie Taylor Green - "Wildfires are caused by Jewish Space Lasers"
Paul Gosar - "We are controlled by Flouride in the Water" (he's a dentist)

these are just a few of the wild, baseless, insane conspiracy theories they've subscribed to. Accountability FTW!


All in all, likely a win for the normal (sane) populus. Two of the biggest clowns will be driving the clown car of "investigations". They are likely to look like a couple of clowns driving an investigative clown car to clown town. Ahhh-oooo-ga!
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by brettac1 »

Image
My god who watches this dogshit.
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Like all your pain is just another fuckin' sing along?

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

brettac1 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:09 pm
Image
My god who watches this dogshit.

Bill has gone from a Libertarian to a Republican who just hates Trump.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

National news/politics have become so absurd that it's hard to see anything lasting more than a single news cycle so it seems all we can do is cringe, shake our heads, cry and, who knows, maybe figure out a better way. But in the meantime...

Riddle me this: We've already covered how the media has blown/is blowing coverage of the "debt crisis." But in all that coverage, I at least have not seen anyone ask and answer the fundamental question, "Will the Republican House majority actually vote not to increase the debt ceiling if they don't get what they want? I'm not talking threats, performance, whining and all the rest, I'm talking brass takes. The R's need 218 votes, give or take. Their leader is incompetent and weak and unable to deliver much if anything on pretty much any subject including no brainers like immigration (I would say "what a fiasco that was, but it's hard to distinguish among fiascos already). And one has to wonder, are there 6 or 8 or 20 Republican congressmen who will actually choose to tank the economy and to be associated forevermore w/ tanking the economy and be forever associated with the yahoos in the Freedom Caucus when they can take the more measured, historically conservative, safer and smarter route of voting to increase the ceiling? I don't think it's anywhere near a certainly that McCarthy, MTG, Matt Gaetz and the rest have the votes. In fact if I were a betting man I'd bet against it. But at the very least some sober analysis of this rather central issue would seem to deserve some media attention.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by jr29 »

Zip City wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:56 pm
brettac1 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:09 pm
Image
My god who watches this dogshit.

Bill has gone from a Libertarian to a Republican who just hates Trump.
Because he has conservatives on his show ?

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

jr29 wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:29 pm
Zip City wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:56 pm
brettac1 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:09 pm
Image
My god who watches this dogshit.

Bill has gone from a Libertarian to a Republican who just hates Trump.
Because he has conservatives on his show ?
Because of his opinions
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Sacrificing myself in the name of research, I now have first hand experience w/ the national health care system of Spain. W/out going into too much icky detail, I spent 7 hours in the emergency room of a major hospital followed by "imperative but routine" surgery. Here's the scorecard using the care I'm familiar w/ in the Boston area as the basis for comparison:

Hands on actual healthcare (diagnosis, treatment, including surgery and aftercare): Excellent. No complaints and wouldn't expect it to be any better at home.

Emergency room: Hard to tell due to the overwhelming demand which created some chaos. How routine a day it was I don't know. There was some really bad: Hours just to get some pain relief and no explanation of what was to come and how it would work. Sick people crammed way, way too tightly together. Actual care was fine (see above) and the way they did it (individual procedures then back to the waiting room until the next one) was different from what I'm used to but not necessarily a negative if there had been more of an explanation of the process. The emergency rooms themselves were kind of dingy and didn't inspire confidence but the main part of the hospital where the patient rooms are were sparkling and modern.

Post surgery nursing care: Different than what I'm used to but not bad. It was clear that the nurses were there only for significant medical issues (the call button was only to be used if I was experiencing pain and they seemed to mean it) but overall it was ok. The things that needed to be done were donek and the doctor's instructions seemed to be followed promptly. Several staff went out of their way to try to communicate w/ me using, e.g., translation programs on their phones. Others did not. My room was a triple which turns out to be a lot more uncomfortable than the typical double I'm used to in the US. I do not know if there are private rooms or how one gets one if they are.

So, a completely unscientific survey , but a probably typical experience. Overall I could see no reason to think that US care is superior. And, oh yeah, the cost: As far as I can tell, other than some incidentals which were probably cheaper than the States: Zero. Nada. Zip. None. I'm not sure if that's the final word but if it is the contrast to the US is stunning.

Special hat tip to the Uber driver who got us to the hospital through impossibly narrow, clogged streets in what must have been record time w/ no express request from us (though it was pretty obvious I was in distress and he was taking us to the hospital).
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

There's a lot being written in the MSM about how the Republicans are learning that "governing" is a lot harder than whining and grandstanding, w/ particular emphasis on the debt ceiling. The media seems to me to be getting the obvious part right but they're missing what I consider the important parts: Less important in the big picture but crucial for McCarthy to deal with is that any number of members of his conference simply don't understand the issues, how things got to be this way or how they might be fixed. This seems to me from a great distance to be a combination of willful blindness (why confront hard issues when one can bluster and perform before the cameras?) and, sorry to say, lack of intelligence on the part of some members. Tough to watch but McCarthy helped to create that situation (George Santos anyone?) and he'll have to live with it.

Second and more important, McCarthy is learning that in a democratic republic, it is quite hard to govern when your party's stated views, goals and policies are quite unpopular and do not appeal to the majority of voters. We can talk about the electoral college, the overrepresentation of rural interests, etc, etc, but the bottom line is that a majority of this country don't want to buy what the Republicans are selling. While on the one hand this would seem to be a pretty basic issue in our system, it does not seem to be getting a lot of attention nor does it seem to be understood as a big part of why the Republicans are in the box they're in. Put another way, pretty much everybody is in favor of "less government" but pretty much nobody wants the government to stop doing those things they personally consider important or from which they personally benefit. McCarthy taking Social Security and Medicare "off the table" on the Sunday talk shows is a painfully obvious and cringeworthy example of this problem in action. And there the poor man sits, not with stage fright, but no doubt w/ second and third thoughts about why he fought so hard and gave up so much for this no win job that he does not understand.

So far Biden and his administration have executed the right strategy in the right way: Default is not an option and cannot be the subject of negotiations. Your move, Mac.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

beantownbubba wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:20 am
Post surgery nursing care: Different than what I'm used to but not bad. It was clear that the nurses were there only for significant medical issues (the call button was only to be used if I was experiencing pain and they seemed to mean it) but overall it was ok. The things that needed to be done were donek and the doctor's instructions seemed to be followed promptly. Several staff went out of their way to try to communicate w/ me using, e.g., translation programs on their phones. Others did not. My room was a triple which turns out to be a lot more uncomfortable than the typical double I'm used to in the US. I do not know if there are private rooms or how one gets one if they are.
One problem that has become clear over the past few hours is that the staff (not sure who is responsible) did an absolutely terrible job explaining the necessary home care follow up and how to do it. My experience in the US on this particular aspect of care has been quite different and far better.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

beantownbubba wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:20 am
Sacrificing myself in the name of research, I now have first hand experience w/ the national health care system of Spain. W/out going into too much icky detail, I spent 7 hours in the emergency room of a major hospital followed by "imperative but routine" surgery. Here's the scorecard using the care I'm familiar w/ in the Boston area as the basis for comparison:

Hands on actual healthcare (diagnosis, treatment, including surgery and aftercare): Excellent. No complaints and wouldn't expect it to be any better at home.

Emergency room: Hard to tell due to the overwhelming demand which created some chaos. How routine a day it was I don't know. There was some really bad: Hours just to get some pain relief and no explanation of what was to come and how it would work. Sick people crammed way, way too tightly together. Actual care was fine (see above) and the way they did it (individual procedures then back to the waiting room until the next one) was different from what I'm used to but not necessarily a negative if there had been more of an explanation of the process. The emergency rooms themselves were kind of dingy and didn't inspire confidence but the main part of the hospital where the patient rooms are were sparkling and modern.

Post surgery nursing care: Different than what I'm used to but not bad. It was clear that the nurses were there only for significant medical issues (the call button was only to be used if I was experiencing pain and they seemed to mean it) but overall it was ok. The things that needed to be done were donek and the doctor's instructions seemed to be followed promptly. Several staff went out of their way to try to communicate w/ me using, e.g., translation programs on their phones. Others did not. My room was a triple which turns out to be a lot more uncomfortable than the typical double I'm used to in the US. I do not know if there are private rooms or how one gets one if they are.

So, a completely unscientific survey , but a probably typical experience. Overall I could see no reason to think that US care is superior. And, oh yeah, the cost: As far as I can tell, other than some incidentals which were probably cheaper than the States: Zero. Nada. Zip. None. I'm not sure if that's the final word but if it is the contrast to the US is stunning.

Special hat tip to the Uber driver who got us to the hospital through impossibly narrow, clogged streets in what must have been record time w/ no express request from us (though it was pretty obvious I was in distress and he was taking us to the hospital).
Sorry your trip was interrupted. You ok?

I just came back from Spain. So far I've never had to use their health care but I'm told its very good.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Jonicont »

beantownbubba wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:18 am
One problem that has become clear over the past few hours is that the staff (not sure who is responsible) did an absolutely terrible job explaining the necessary home care follow up and how to do it. My experience in the US on this particular aspect of care has been quite different and far better.
Although not quite like a hospital bill, aftercare coordination is not cheap. And I'm not sure but I believe litigation is not such an issue in Europe. Anyway glad to see you are so quickly back on your feet (so to speak). Can't keep a good bard down
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Jonicont »

beantownbubba wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:20 am
Post surgery nursing care: Different than what I'm used to but not bad. It was clear that the nurses were there only for significant medical issues (the call button was only to be used if I was experiencing pain and they seemed to mean it) but overall it was ok. The things that needed to be done were done and the doctor's instructions seemed to be followed promptly.
From my experience in Italy (40 years ago mind you), families were expected to step up and step in. People brought their own towels and bed linens (and of course meals)
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

305 Engine wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:22 am
Sorry your trip was interrupted. You ok?

I just came back from Spain. So far I've never had to use their health care but I'm told its very good.
Sorry I missed you in Spain. I'm doing pretty well, thanks, but it's basically a case of it is what it is: The surgeon said it would take a full month to recover and nothing so far leads me to think it will be shorter.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Jonicont wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:03 am
beantownbubba wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:20 am
Post surgery nursing care: Different than what I'm used to but not bad. It was clear that the nurses were there only for significant medical issues (the call button was only to be used if I was experiencing pain and they seemed to mean it) but overall it was ok. The things that needed to be done were done and the doctor's instructions seemed to be followed promptly.
From my experience in Italy (40 years ago mind you), families were expected to step up and step in. People brought their own towels and bed linens (and of course meals)
I didn't get to see a lot of others' experiences but my strong sense is that there was a fair amount of this going on, and it was expected by the families. Perhaps not at the level you suggest but definitely noticeable.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

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