The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

[Iowan]

Seriously. They're fucking shoes.

There are so many horrible things that Trump has done, and by focusing on something this god damn trivial, it just erodes the credibility of the more important fights to pick. Does it reveal a sense of tone-deafness? Sure. Is this a revelation? It better not be.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

Seriously. They're fucking shoes.

There are so many horrible things that Trump has done, and by focusing on something this god damn trivial, it just erodes the credibility of the more important fights to pick. Does it reveal a sense of tone-deafness? Sure. Is this a revelation? It better not be.

Word to be heard

I'd much rather us rant about Trump restarting the flow of military surplus to police and/or Erik Prince "returning" and advocating that our country hire his sellswords, er, "contractors," for use in Afghanistan

[pearlbeer]

Seriously. They're fucking shoes.

Agree. There is SO MUCH to focus on, there is no time to be petty. We should be screaming Russia, Arpaio, etc until our throats are sore.

[Iowan]

Seriously. They're fucking shoes.

There are so many horrible things that Trump has done, and by focusing on something this god damn trivial, it just erodes the credibility of the more important fights to pick. Does it reveal a sense of tone-deafness? Sure. Is this a revelation? It better not be.

Word to be heard

I'd much rather us rant about Trump restarting the flow of military surplus to police and/or Erik Prince "returning" and advocating that our country hire his sellswords, er, "contractors," for use in Afghanistan

This is just fucking absurd. There's a segment of the right wing that gets their rocks off on the idea of police rounding up all the undesirables and locking them away.

[Tequila Cowboy]

I think the shoes are pretty symbolic, actually.

Lately, there have been several documentaries broadcast to commemorate Princess Diana on the 20th year of her passing. Her commitment to philanthropy and altruism was pretty amazing and I guess that's why they called her "The People's Princess." Her willingness act in such a way as to engage in physical contact with people who were homeless or ill, specifically hugging AIDS patients and holding babies suffering from AIDS during a time when many people were terrified to do so, to demonstrate that one wouldn't contract the disease through a hug, or to walk through a mine field, to name a fraction of her charitable involvements, made her an amazing role model of kindness, compassion and action.

She'd show up, in flat shoes and sensible (but stylish) clothes and get stuff done.

When I juxtapose that image against the image of Milania Trump showing up at disaster zone, I sense a few different things: She isn't actually interested in getting involved or helping and she doesn't actually give a damn about people and I find it particularly pathetic that she doesn't even know that she should, at the very least, pretend to care or go through the motions of looking like she wants to help.

I also think that this kind of thing belies her husband's perspective and approach to people and suffering.

I get your point, and I would agree there is symbolism there, but all of the conclusions you draw can be arrived at with better arguments. The fact that Trump walked out of an Austin fire station like he was campaigning, talked about turnout and crowd size, and used hyperbole to discuss the tragedy without ever mentioning human beings makes all the same points as the shoes but does it in such a way as to not sound small. Also those same points were made by the fact that there was a televised meeting earlier that day with Trump and state and Federal officials that, again, never mentioned the human suffering. Trump actually said that everyone was doing a great job but that they would congratulate each other later. Who the fuck talks about congratulating themselves in a moment like that? The real point is that when all of the lack of empathy and understanding is out there on full display there is very little need for symbolism of that we can see with our own eyes. Forget about shoes.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

[beantownbubba]

Let me try again.

It's not about the shoes.

This is the 21st century. We've been through it a million times: A picture is worth a thousand words. The wrong (or right) sentence is worth 10,000 words and a couple of pictures ("you're doing a helluva job, brownie," "Mr. Gorbachev tear down that wall!") and can capture a moment in a way that outlives its apparent immediate value and comes to symbolize something far greater.

Symbolism matters. If you're saying the shoes are trivial you're absolutely right. I'm not arguing that. What I was trying to say before was that this was not (at least in significant part) a made up knee jerk if it's Trump it's awful kind of pseudo controversy stirred up or initiated by the usual suspects. It actually came from the ground up. Real people really did react viscerally and negatively to that picture. Yes, it became the usual overblown and out of proportion media and social media frenzy, where the triviality point becomes more relevant. But as symbolism immediately grasp-able by many, many people this actually makes sense and encapsulates exactly the Trumps' attitude toward the public that ponygirl describes so well. You can say that Trump's campaign rally type speech, his reference to crowd size and his failure to actually interact and support victims are all more substantive, but them's a lot of words which require a lot of explanation while that picture covers all of 'em more directly and with more impact.

That picture is essentially the visual for "let 'em eat cake" and everyone knows what that quote's about over 200 years later. I think this picture will become one of the defining moments of the Trump era, not because shoes are important but because the picture conveys so much so simply.

[beantownbubba]

Isn't the implication of this either that the storm was Trump's fault or that the govt has fucked up the response and that's Trump's fault? Is either one of those things true? While I got a chuckle out of it, it conveniently is exactly what I was saying the shoe picture is not: something ginned up by the anti trump social media complex to score points w/out regard to truth or nuance.

Oh, btw WWCD, in response to your earlier query, yes I'm aware that Mrs. Trump changed outfits before deplaning in Texas. I'm glad she did and had she actually met some victims or even plain ole Texas residents I'd be really, really glad and relieved that she didn't do so in the original get up. But it doesn't change what I've said above.

[Iowan]

Fair enough. That's different than being outraged.

Thing is, the people Trump is telling to eat cake love him for it. His base (the people who actually love him) is the definition of getting pissed on and saying it's raining, and that won't change.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

It's not about the shoes.

[beantownbubba]

Touche, wwcd. Pretty perfect. And highly symbolic.

Thing is, the people Trump is telling to eat cake love him for it. His base (the people who actually love him) is the definition of getting pissed on and saying it's raining, and that won't change.

This is the enduring mystery of the past 2 years. I certainly don't have the explanation/answer.

[PonyGirl]

I get your point, and I would agree there is symbolism there, but all of the conclusions you draw can be arrived at with better arguments. The fact that Trump walked out of an Austin fire station like he was campaigning, talked about turnout and crowd size, and used hyperbole to discuss the tragedy without ever mentioning human beings makes all the same points as the shoes but does it in such a way as to not sound small. Also those same points were made by the fact that there was a televised meeting earlier that day with Trump and state and Federal officials that, again, never mentioned the human suffering. Trump actually said that everyone was doing a great job but that they would congratulate each other later. Who the fuck talks about congratulating themselves in a moment like that? The real point is that when all of the lack of empathy and understanding is out there on full display there is very little need for symbolism of that we can see with our own eyes. Forget about shoes.

Better arguments, eh? As subjective as that is, I don't necessarily disagree, but I'd say it's far from the weakest argument ever made on this thread. And to take the straw man approach and reply in such a way as to make me look like I'm ultimately trying to have a discussion about accessories here is kind of a cheap move, though I'm not saying that you are actually doing this, but if you were, that in itself would be a fairly petty gesture. Because obviously, as has been pointed out, this is not about accessories.

What it is about to me, is how fucking stupid the President seems to think people are and how he's so willing to demonstrate it time after time with token gesture after token gesture, this just being one in a series of many.

It also amazes me that this guy basically got elected because of reality TV and social media, two institutions that created a society in which every single individual can be considered their own "brand," and he can't even go to the effort to stay on brand and do a quality job of deceiving people.

[John A Arkansawyer]

Thing is, the people Trump is telling to eat cake love him for it. His base (the people who actually love him) is the definition of getting pissed on and saying it's raining, and that won't change.

This is the enduring mystery of the past 2 years. I certainly don't have the explanation/answer.

I think I do. These are true believers in the ideas of dog eat dog and every man for himself. The world they know and the self-image they see are both nasty and brutish. They believe that is the* way of the world and they know they are relatively weak. So they cozy up to the biggest brute they can find that doesn't want to kill them today.

*It's certainly a way, but there are good reasons not believe it's the way.

[Flea]

Isn't the implication of this either that the storm was Trump's fault or that the govt has fucked up the response and that's Trump's fault? Is either one of those things true?

Not my initial reaction. I'm reading more of a "Nero playing the violin while Rome burns" vibe directed towards both the Republican Party and their media acolytes.

[beantownbubba]

I get your point, and I would agree there is symbolism there, but all of the conclusions you draw can be arrived at with better arguments. The fact that Trump walked out of an Austin fire station like he was campaigning, talked about turnout and crowd size, and used hyperbole to discuss the tragedy without ever mentioning human beings makes all the same points as the shoes but does it in such a way as to not sound small. Also those same points were made by the fact that there was a televised meeting earlier that day with Trump and state and Federal officials that, again, never mentioned the human suffering. Trump actually said that everyone was doing a great job but that they would congratulate each other later. Who the fuck talks about congratulating themselves in a moment like that? The real point is that when all of the lack of empathy and understanding is out there on full display there is very little need for symbolism of that we can see with our own eyes. Forget about shoes.

Better arguments, eh? As subjective as that is, I don't necessarily disagree, but I'd say it's far from the weakest argument ever made on this thread. And to take the straw man approach and reply in such a way as to make me look like I'm ultimately trying to have a discussion about accessories here is kind of a cheap move, though I'm not saying that you are actually doing this, but if you were, that in itself would be a fairly petty gesture. Because obviously, as has been pointed out, this is not about accessories.

What it is about to me, is how fucking stupid the President seems to think people are and how he's so willing to demonstrate it time after time with token gesture after token gesture, this just being one in a series of many.

It also amazes me that this guy basically got elected because of reality TV and social media, two institutions that created a society in which every single individual can be considered their own "brand," and he can't even go to the effort to stay on brand and do a quality job of deceiving people.

I love reading your writing, PG. This place could certainly benefit from more ponygirl. Plus she said "eh." I love it when u speak Canadian.

Not my initial reaction. I'm reading more of a "Nero playing the violin while Rome burns" vibe directed towards both the Republican Party and their media acolytes.

Always interesting to read others' interpretations. This truly had not occurred to me but it seems about as likely as my interpretation - no great message or analysis, just interesting and an example of why it's good for people to talk.

[dime in the gutter]

Not my initial reaction. I'm reading more of a "Nero playing the violin while Rome burns" vibe directed towards both the Republican Party and their media acolytes.

this is correct.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

Isn't the implication of this either that the storm was Trump's fault or that the govt has fucked up the response and that's Trump's fault?

you are thinking too much, sometimes a picture is just a picture this meme has been, dare I say, floating around for months

I do like the fact that you thought I had put in some thought and was actually trying to say something

[schlanky]

The "But her emails" meme has mildly annoyed me from the first time I saw it. If you simplify it down to red vs blue, I guess it makes some sense.

But beyond that, as bad of a candidate as Trump was, he still beat Hillary. Up against the worst candidate in history, she did worse. Instead of blaming the folks who voted for Trump or the ones who were disillusioned to the point that they stayed home on voting day, maybe it's time to put the blame on a bad candidate/party with a bad strategy. Sometimes you need to look in the mirror instead of out the window.

In the year of the outsider, the party did all it could to pave the way for the most establishment candidate it had because it was "her turn." She won the primary, but was too Republican Lite for for the left and too polarizing to attract independents. It was much more than her emails.

And the DNC still doesn't get it.

[Flea]

The "But her emails" meme has mildly annoyed me from the first time I saw it. If you simplify it down to red vs blue, I guess it makes some sense.

But beyond that, as bad of a candidate as Trump was, he still beat Hillary. Up against the worst candidate in history, she did worse. Instead of blaming the folks who voted for Trump or the ones who were disillusioned to the point that they stayed home on voting day, maybe it's time to put the blame on a bad candidate/party with a bad strategy. Sometimes you need to look in the mirror instead of out the window.

In the year of the outsider, the party did all it could to pave the way for the most establishment candidate it had because it was "her turn." She won the primary, but was too Republican Lite for for the left and too polarizing to attract independents. It was much more than her emails.

And the DNC still doesn't get it.

The DNC is at least as fucking lost, probably more so, than the RNC was after Obama's election. And they deserve it for reading the tea leaves so poorly. And they have yet to show that they learned anything.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

[Swamp]

I was listening to a story on npr about Frances new president last week when they mentioned the presidental palace. I thought to myself, why don't we have a presidental palace instead of a place called "The White House" built by slaves?

[beantownbubba]

The "But her emails" meme has mildly annoyed me from the first time I saw it. If you simplify it down to red vs blue, I guess it makes some sense.

But beyond that, as bad of a candidate as Trump was, he still beat Hillary. Up against the worst candidate in history, she did worse. Instead of blaming the folks who voted for Trump or the ones who were disillusioned to the point that they stayed home on voting day, maybe it's time to put the blame on a bad candidate/party with a bad strategy. Sometimes you need to look in the mirror instead of out the window.

In the year of the outsider, the party did all it could to pave the way for the most establishment candidate it had because it was "her turn." She won the primary, but was too Republican Lite for for the left and too polarizing to attract independents. It was much more than her emails.

And the DNC still doesn't get it.

All true, especially the last line. But even so, that still doesn't explain what I would describe as the astonishing fact (that would be actual, not alternative) that enough people voted for Donald Trump in the primaries and the general election to make him president of the USA.

why don't we have a presidental palace

Maybe because we dont have, and never had, a monarch?

[dogstar]

why don't we have a presidental palace

Maybe because we don't have, and never had, a monarch?

Not strictly true

[tinnitus photography]

why don't we have a presidental palace

Maybe because we don't have, and never had, a monarch?

Not strictly true

all hail the king!

[beantownbubba]

why don't we have a presidental palace

Maybe because we don't have, and never had, a monarch?

Not strictly true

Ha. I thought about that. I decided that the key point is that the United States of America has never had a monarch. Whether that's the correct way to view it is I guess an open question but I think it's the better approach since the revolution was fought to overthrow the monarch, making for a pretty clear break.

OTOH, as tin points out, we do have a burger king and a dairy queen.

[dogstar]

why don't we have a presidental palace

Maybe because we don't have, and never had, a monarch?

Not strictly true

Ha. I thought about that. I decided that the key point is that the United States of America has never had a monarch. Whether that's the correct way to view it is I guess an open question but I think it's the better approach since the revolution was fought to overthrow the monarch, making for a pretty clear break.

OTOH, as tin points out, we do have a burger king and a dairy queen.

The French Presidential Palace used to belong to a King too but they also had a revolution, same in Russia.

Logic smogic

[beantownbubba]

Logic smogic

We have a winner. Totally indisputable.

[Swamp]

why don't we have a presidental palace

Maybe because we don't have, and never had, a monarch?

Not strictly true

Ha. I thought about that. I decided that the key point is that the United States of America has never had a monarch. Whether that's the correct way to view it is I guess an open question but I think it's the better approach since the revolution was fought to overthrow the monarch, making for a pretty clear break.

OTOH, as tin points out, we do have a burger king and a dairy queen.

But they don't live at White Castle.

[beantownbubba]

The "But her emails" meme has mildly annoyed me from the first time I saw it. If you simplify it down to red vs blue, I guess it makes some sense.

But beyond that, as bad of a candidate as Trump was, he still beat Hillary. Up against the worst candidate in history, she did worse. Instead of blaming the folks who voted for Trump or the ones who were disillusioned to the point that they stayed home on voting day, maybe it's time to put the blame on a bad candidate/party with a bad strategy. Sometimes you need to look in the mirror instead of out the window.

In the year of the outsider, the party did all it could to pave the way for the most establishment candidate it had because it was "her turn." She won the primary, but was too Republican Lite for for the left and too polarizing to attract independents. It was much more than her emails.

And the DNC still doesn't get it.

The fancy version, well worth reading: http://billmoyers.com/story/im-not-democrat/

[pearlbeer]

Goddammit. Every day this orange fucker does something stupid or cruel. Ending DACA is both. Every. Fucking. Day.