The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

[pearlbeer]

We can't even get wildly popular, bipartisan legislation passed. Seriously - who LIKES turning the clock back?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... ving-time/

[tinnitus photography]

I can't bring myself to say Trump was right, but it's pretty clear the Bush-Clinton-Bush flash deindustrialization of America sure fucked up the place.

I have said for a very long time that Trump was right about China, he just didn't have a clue what to do about it and was ultimately ineffectual and unsuccessful. His other "efforts" at reindustrialization, e.g. renegotiating NAFTA and leaving the Transpacific Partnership were jokes. The only other thing that Trump was right about was the Covid vaccine and of course most of his base didn't follow him there. Go figure.

i think the most important thing that Trump was right about (unfortunately) is that if you tell a lie long enough, a fair number of people will accept it, regardless of any evidence of veracity.

[beantownbubba]

I can't bring myself to say Trump was right, but it's pretty clear the Bush-Clinton-Bush flash deindustrialization of America sure fucked up the place.

I have said for a very long time that Trump was right about China, he just didn't have a clue what to do about it and was ultimately ineffectual and unsuccessful. His other "efforts" at reindustrialization, e.g. renegotiating NAFTA and leaving the Transpacific Partnership were jokes. The only other thing that Trump was right about was the Covid vaccine and of course most of his base didn't follow him there. Go figure.

i think the most important thing that Trump was right about (unfortunately) is that if you tell a lie long enough, a fair number of people will accept it, regardless of any evidence of veracity.

Yeah. There's that.

[beantownbubba]

We can't even get wildly popular, bipartisan legislation passed. Seriously - who LIKES turning the clock back?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... ving-time/

As the article indicates, this is actually somewhat controversial with the weight of scientific opinion being that if we don't change clocks annually the best solution is not to have daylight savings at all. I personally would be very happy w/ permanent daylight savings time but nobody asked me.

[tinnitus photography]

We can't even get wildly popular, bipartisan legislation passed. Seriously - who LIKES turning the clock back?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... ving-time/

As the article indicates, this is actually somewhat controversial with the weight of scientific opinion being that if we don't change clocks annually the best solution is not to have daylight savings at all. I personally would be very happy w/ permanent daylight savings time but nobody asked me.

yeah New England should be on Atlantic Standard Time. Why are we in the same time zone as Michigan?

[Zip City]

I am pro-permanent DST. Give me sunlight in the evenings

[tinnitus photography]

I am pro-permanent DST. Give me sunlight in the evenings

you already have that! we're stuck with 8:30ish as our latest sunset.


that is the one thing i really miss about being in Ireland in the summer.

[Zip City]

I am pro-permanent DST. Give me sunlight in the evenings

you already have that! we're stuck with 8:30ish as our latest sunset.


that is the one thing i really miss about being in Ireland in the summer.

In December it gets dark before 5pm

[tinnitus photography]

I am pro-permanent DST. Give me sunlight in the evenings

you already have that! we're stuck with 8:30ish as our latest sunset.


that is the one thing i really miss about being in Ireland in the summer.

In December it gets dark before 5pm

lol we're already there and DST hasn't even left us yet.

edit - not yet. sunset is 5:30 right now. just seems like it's dark at 5 though.

[chuckrh]

I am pro-permanent DST. Give me sunlight in the evenings

ya, screw corporate farming. It's not like ma & pa Kettle running the farms any more. more light later would be great where i live up here in south Alaska (Washington).

[beantownbubba]

Republicans are saying the quiet part out loud: They intend to cut both Social Security and Medicare, and not just by a little. The people who will be most affected by this plan should they actually pass it, are the "new Republican base," i.e. working class white men and similar groups. How and why this is ok with them is beyond my ability to understand, but should the worst happen (let's say the R's do hold the debt ceiling hostage and what they want in exchange are these cuts and it's now 11:59 pm on the night before the US will run out of money to pay its debts. Who blinks? HINT: It's heads I win, tails you lose for the working class and for most of the rest of us too) they'll have nobody to blame but themselves. This has NOTHING to do with Democrats, nor does it have to do with any bullshit arguments about fiscal responsibility and cutting the deficit (we can go there if anyone is so inclined). Perhaps the Dems will do an end run around the debt ceiling during the lame duck session but I seriously doubt it.

Conceptually it makes no sense to refuse to pay already incurred debts or to claim that it's ok to decimate the social safety net because people are living longer.* Additionally and far from incidentally, refusing to pay already incurred debt is absolutely, positively, clearly and directly unconstitutional. You can look it up; it's right there in black and white**. You know, originally and textually. This is no way to run a country but it is a very good way to ruin one.

*Paraphrasing Paul Krugman, the Republicans want to cut social security and medicare for the midwestern and southern working class because lawyers in New York are living longer. The folks who this is aimed at are crazy if they think that somehow this will be good for them.

** "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."

[jr29]

My only choice for Democrat senator is a guy who runs TV ads bragging about how he agrees with Trump on trade and China.

I can't bring myself to say Trump was right, but it's pretty clear the Bush-Clinton-Bush flash deindustrialization of America sure fucked up the place. If Tim Ryan has to phrase that in a way that might win him votes, more power to him. It's not like he's running for president this time.

That is essentially the case made in this Jacobin piece:
https://jacobin.com/2022/11/tim-ryan-jd ... -democrats

If the reason the DNC hasn't helped him has anything to do with Chinese trade policy then all of their cries about democracy being under fire due to election denialism, political violence, January 6, etc, rings pretty fucking hollow.

I'm also a little put off by Fetterman staying in the race following his stroke. If this election is as important as he and the dems pretend, they had to know the stroke would have a negative impact and they should have set their egos aside and let Connor Lamb step in to run against Oz. I'd bet Lamb would be leading by 6-8 points. I understand stroke victims often recover, but he doesn't seem to be. All he would have to say is "I'm going to focus on recovering and I'll be back." It's not dissimilar to Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Obama gently urged her to retire while he was in office so that he could replace her. She would have none of it and we see how that turned out.
BTW...I know Fetterman could very easily win.

[Clams]

I'm also a little put off by Fetterman staying in the race following his stroke. If this election is as important as he and the dems pretend, they had to know the stroke would have a negative impact and they should have set their egos aside and let Connor Lamb step in to run against Oz. I'd bet Lamb would be leading by 6-8 points. I understand stroke victims often recover, but he doesn't seem to be. All he would have to say is "I'm going to focus on recovering and I'll be back." It's not dissimilar to Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Obama gently urged her to retire while he was in office so that he could replace her. She would have none of it and we see how that turned out.
BTW...I know Fetterman could very easily win.

I'm in PA so I have some thoughts on this. I don't blame Fetterman one bit. He's believe he's a good guy with good intentions and I can't blame him for wanting to stay in the race. I do blame the PA democratic party though. They have known for months of his condition and of how it would affect the campaign for what is obv a crucial election. If a few of the top dems in the state would've come out an said Fetterman can't do it, eventually he would've taken himself out of the race and we could have had a better candidtate (though I'm not sure what the process would have been for replacing him). But they didn't do that. That debate was basically senatorial suicide by the dem party and I believe it will ultimately cost Fetterman the election. As usual, it's the independents and undecided voters who will decide the outcome, and I can just imagine those folks watching that debate and saying to themselves "I feel really bad for the guy but I don't see how he's going to be able to function in Congress." And you know what? I said the exact same thing to myself! I voted for him anyway, because that's what you have to do nowadays. But if I were undecided, I probably wouldn't. The world is a really fucked up place right now.

[jr29]

I'm also a little put off by Fetterman staying in the race following his stroke. If this election is as important as he and the dems pretend, they had to know the stroke would have a negative impact and they should have set their egos aside and let Connor Lamb step in to run against Oz. I'd bet Lamb would be leading by 6-8 points. I understand stroke victims often recover, but he doesn't seem to be. All he would have to say is "I'm going to focus on recovering and I'll be back." It's not dissimilar to Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Obama gently urged her to retire while he was in office so that he could replace her. She would have none of it and we see how that turned out.
BTW...I know Fetterman could very easily win.

I'm in PA so I have some thoughts on this. I don't blame Fetterman one bit. He's believe he's a good guy with good intentions and I can't blame him for wanting to stay in the race. I do blame the PA democratic party though. They have known for months of his condition and of how it would affect the campaign for what is obv a crucial election. If a few of the top dems in the state would've come out an said Fetterman can't do it, eventually he would've taken himself out of the race and we could have had a better candidtate (though I'm not sure what the process would have been for replacing him). But they didn't do that. That debate was basically senatorial suicide by the dem party and I believe it will ultimately cost Fetterman the election. As usual, it's the independents and undecided voters who will decide the outcome, and I can just imagine those folks watching that debate and saying to themselves "I feel really bad for the guy but I don't see how he's going to be able to function in Congress." And you know what? I said the exact same thing to myself! I voted for him anyway, because that's what you have to do nowadays. But if I were undecided, I probably wouldn't. The world is a really fucked up place right now.

I believe the deadline for him to drop out was the end of August and I believe the party or the Governor would have appointed his replacement.
Even if they missed that deadline he and Wolf and Shapiro could have come out and said if lack of recovery dictates appointing a replacement we are prepared to appoint Lamb.
I'm sure he is a good guy and I'm sure he's well intentioned and he earned the right to be where he is. However, I'll say it again, if this seat is as important to the future of the country as they are telling us there needs to be some self awareness and some shedding of hubris. I cannot imagine any objective insider thinks Fetterman is a better general election candidate than Lamb.
Sports analogy....a pitcher with a quarter sized blister on his hand may think he is still the man who belongs on the mound. He's almost certainly not.

BTW...the senatatorial picture looks really rough for Dems in 2024. I believe they are defending in Montana, Wisconsin, Ohio, West Virginia, maybe a couple more tough spots.

[John A Arkansawyer]

BTW...the senatatorial picture looks really rough for Dems in 2024. I believe they are defending in Montana, Wisconsin, Ohio, West Virginia, maybe a couple more tough spots.

We'll always have California. Whether we have forty-one seats in the Senate or not.

[Clams]

BTW...the senatatorial picture looks really rough for Dems in 2024. I believe they are defending in Montana, Wisconsin, Ohio, West Virginia, maybe a couple more tough spots.

We'll always have California. Whether we have forty-one seats in the Senate or not.

Sometimes I think we should just split the country down the middle using the Mississippi River. Give the conservatives one half and the liberals the other. Maybe carve out some space for the independents (the southeast or maybe the pacific northwest). I think I'd actually support this.

[chuckrh]

BTW...the senatatorial picture looks really rough for Dems in 2024. I believe they are defending in Montana, Wisconsin, Ohio, West Virginia, maybe a couple more tough spots.

We'll always have California. Whether we have forty-one seats in the Senate or not.

Washington is surprisingly rough, also. The PACs are pouring big money into the state. We're in that magical time with both political & Christmas ads. Here, wait, let me grab my airsickness bag....

[jr29]

BTW...the senatatorial picture looks really rough for Dems in 2024. I believe they are defending in Montana, Wisconsin, Ohio, West Virginia, maybe a couple more tough spots.

We'll always have California. Whether we have forty-one seats in the Senate or not.

Sometimes I think we should just split the country down the middle using the Mississippi River. Give the conservatives one half and the liberals the other. Maybe carve out some space for the independents (the southeast or maybe the pacific northwest). I think I'd actually support this.

It's tough. I'm from a rural place and I really love the people there and I have strong desire to move back. Some of the folks are so outspoken about politics now that I'm not sure I'd be as happy as I think I would be though. I'm about to turn 40 and things just weren't like that when I was a kid. I'm afraid I'm longing for a bygone era that is going to stay in the rearview mirror.

[Flea]

BTW...the senatatorial picture looks really rough for Dems in 2024. I believe they are defending in Montana, Wisconsin, Ohio, West Virginia, maybe a couple more tough spots.

We'll always have California. Whether we have forty-one seats in the Senate or not.

Sometimes I think we should just split the country down the middle using the Mississippi River. Give the conservatives one half and the liberals the other. Maybe carve out some space for the independents (the southeast or maybe the pacific northwest). I think I'd actually support this.

The MAGAts can have West of the Mississippi. Lots of unoccupied territory for them to play mercenary and blow themselves up. No way those chuckleheads could survive without a boogeyman to fear, they would soon be at each others throats. After a few years, we Easterners can just walk back in and say, "You guys need a hand with this?".

[John A Arkansawyer]

Sometimes I think we should just split the country down the middle using the Mississippi River. Give the conservatives one half and the liberals the other. Maybe carve out some space for the independents (the southeast or maybe the pacific northwest). I think I'd actually support this.

It's tough. I'm from a rural place and I really love the people there and I have strong desire to move back. Some of the folks are so outspoken about politics now that I'm not sure I'd be as happy as I think I would be though. I'm about to turn 40 and things just weren't like that when I was a kid. I'm afraid I'm longing for a bygone era that is going to stay in the rearview mirror.

Try it on for size and see what you think:

The Bookstore at the End of America

A bookshop on a hill. Two front doors, two walkways lined with blank slates and grass, two identical signs welcoming customers to the First and Last Page, and a great blue building in the middle, shaped like an old-fashioned barn with a slanted tiled roof and generous rain gutters. Nobody knew how many books were inside that building, not even Molly, the owner. But if you couldn’t find it there, they probably hadn’t written it down yet.

The two walkways led to two identical front doors, with straw welcome mats, blue plank floors, and the scent of lilacs and old bindings—but then you’d see a completely different store, depending which side you entered. With two cash registers, for two separate kinds of money.

If you entered from the California side, you’d see a wall hanging: women of all ages, shapes, and origins holding hands and dancing. You’d notice the display of the latest books from a variety of small presses that clung to life in Colorado Springs and Santa Fe, from literature and poetry to cultural studies. The shelves closest to the door on the California side included a decent amount of women’s and queer studies, but also a strong selection of classic literature, going back to Virginia Woolf and Zora Neale Hurston. Plus some brand-new paperbacks.

If you came in through the American front door, the basic layout would be pretty similar, except for the big painting of the nearby Rocky Mountains, though you might notice more books on religion, and some history books with a somewhat more conservative approach. The literary books skewed a bit more toward Faulkner, Thoreau, and Hemingway, not to mention Ayn Rand, and you might find more books of essays about self-reliance and strong families, along with another selection of low-cost paperbacks: thrillers and war novels, including brand-new releases from the big printing plant in Gatlinburg. Romance novels, too.

Go through either front door and keep walking, and you’d find yourself in a maze of shelves, with a plethora of nooks and a bevy of side rooms. Here a cavern of science fiction and fantasy, there a deep alcove of theater books— and a huge annex of history and sociology, including a whole wall devoted to explaining the origins of the Great Sundering. Of course, some people did make it all the way from one front door to the other, past the overfed snake shape of the hallways and the giant central reading room, with a plain red carpet and two beat-down couches in it. But the design of the store encouraged you to stay inside your own reality.

The exact border between America and California, which elsewhere featured watchtowers and roadblocks, YOU ARE NOW LEAVING/YOU ARE NOW ENTERING signs, and terrible overpriced souvenir stands, was denoted in the First and Last Page by a tall bookcase of self-help titles about coping with divorce.

[jr29]

Sometimes I think we should just split the country down the middle using the Mississippi River. Give the conservatives one half and the liberals the other. Maybe carve out some space for the independents (the southeast or maybe the pacific northwest). I think I'd actually support this.

It's tough. I'm from a rural place and I really love the people there and I have strong desire to move back. Some of the folks are so outspoken about politics now that I'm not sure I'd be as happy as I think I would be though. I'm about to turn 40 and things just weren't like that when I was a kid. I'm afraid I'm longing for a bygone era that is going to stay in the rearview mirror.

Try it on for size and see what you think:

The Bookstore at the End of America

A bookshop on a hill. Two front doors, two walkways lined with blank slates and grass, two identical signs welcoming customers to the First and Last Page, and a great blue building in the middle, shaped like an old-fashioned barn with a slanted tiled roof and generous rain gutters. Nobody knew how many books were inside that building, not even Molly, the owner. But if you couldn’t find it there, they probably hadn’t written it down yet.

The two walkways led to two identical front doors, with straw welcome mats, blue plank floors, and the scent of lilacs and old bindings—but then you’d see a completely different store, depending which side you entered. With two cash registers, for two separate kinds of money.

If you entered from the California side, you’d see a wall hanging: women of all ages, shapes, and origins holding hands and dancing. You’d notice the display of the latest books from a variety of small presses that clung to life in Colorado Springs and Santa Fe, from literature and poetry to cultural studies. The shelves closest to the door on the California side included a decent amount of women’s and queer studies, but also a strong selection of classic literature, going back to Virginia Woolf and Zora Neale Hurston. Plus some brand-new paperbacks.

If you came in through the American front door, the basic layout would be pretty similar, except for the big painting of the nearby Rocky Mountains, though you might notice more books on religion, and some history books with a somewhat more conservative approach. The literary books skewed a bit more toward Faulkner, Thoreau, and Hemingway, not to mention Ayn Rand, and you might find more books of essays about self-reliance and strong families, along with another selection of low-cost paperbacks: thrillers and war novels, including brand-new releases from the big printing plant in Gatlinburg. Romance novels, too.

Go through either front door and keep walking, and you’d find yourself in a maze of shelves, with a plethora of nooks and a bevy of side rooms. Here a cavern of science fiction and fantasy, there a deep alcove of theater books— and a huge annex of history and sociology, including a whole wall devoted to explaining the origins of the Great Sundering. Of course, some people did make it all the way from one front door to the other, past the overfed snake shape of the hallways and the giant central reading room, with a plain red carpet and two beat-down couches in it. But the design of the store encouraged you to stay inside your own reality.

The exact border between America and California, which elsewhere featured watchtowers and roadblocks, YOU ARE NOW LEAVING/YOU ARE NOW ENTERING signs, and terrible overpriced souvenir stands, was denoted in the First and Last Page by a tall bookcase of self-help titles about coping with divorce.

"Some of these screaming people were old enough to have grown up in the United States of America, but they acted as though these two lands had always been enemies."

[beantownbubba]

I'm also a little put off by Fetterman staying in the race following his stroke. If this election is as important as he and the dems pretend, they had to know the stroke would have a negative impact and they should have set their egos aside and let Connor Lamb step in to run against Oz. I'd bet Lamb would be leading by 6-8 points. I understand stroke victims often recover, but he doesn't seem to be. All he would have to say is "I'm going to focus on recovering and I'll be back." It's not dissimilar to Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Obama gently urged her to retire while he was in office so that he could replace her. She would have none of it and we see how that turned out.
BTW...I know Fetterman could very easily win.

I'm in PA so I have some thoughts on this. I don't blame Fetterman one bit. He's believe he's a good guy with good intentions and I can't blame him for wanting to stay in the race. I do blame the PA democratic party though. They have known for months of his condition and of how it would affect the campaign for what is obv a crucial election. If a few of the top dems in the state would've come out an said Fetterman can't do it, eventually he would've taken himself out of the race and we could have had a better candidtate (though I'm not sure what the process would have been for replacing him). But they didn't do that. That debate was basically senatorial suicide by the dem party and I believe it will ultimately cost Fetterman the election. As usual, it's the independents and undecided voters who will decide the outcome, and I can just imagine those folks watching that debate and saying to themselves "I feel really bad for the guy but I don't see how he's going to be able to function in Congress." And you know what? I said the exact same thing to myself! I voted for him anyway, because that's what you have to do nowadays. But if I were undecided, I probably wouldn't. The world is a really fucked up place right now.

I believe the deadline for him to drop out was the end of August and I believe the party or the Governor would have appointed his replacement.
Even if they missed that deadline he and Wolf and Shapiro could have come out and said if lack of recovery dictates appointing a replacement we are prepared to appoint Lamb.
I'm sure he is a good guy and I'm sure he's well intentioned and he earned the right to be where he is. However, I'll say it again, if this seat is as important to the future of the country as they are telling us there needs to be some self awareness and some shedding of hubris. I cannot imagine any objective insider thinks Fetterman is a better general election candidate than Lamb.
Sports analogy....a pitcher with a quarter sized blister on his hand may think he is still the man who belongs on the mound. He's almost certainly not.

BTW...the senatatorial picture looks really rough for Dems in 2024. I believe they are defending in Montana, Wisconsin, Ohio, West Virginia, maybe a couple more tough spots.

When Fetterman first had the stroke I didn't see any problem with him staying in the race on the assumption that he would improve significantly. But where were the adults in the room once it became clear that wasn't happening or at least not happening fast enough? Another head scratcher from the Dems, who simply can't afford to be so wrong so often.

"Because that's what you have to do nowadays." Very true and very sad and it may bring us Senator Herschel Walker.

[brettac1]

Obviously not in PA but I still feel like Fetterman will pull it out. I like him a lot and hope he makes a full recovery while in the Senate. Ben Ray Lujan from New Mexico had a stroke six months ago and has been able to serve just fine in the Senate. He just didn't happen to be slightly left of the MSNBC/NYT punditocracy like Fetterman is and not up for re-election so it was barely news.

Whether he should have debated is a different story.

[pearlbeer]

***Warning!!! Rant incoming!***



Fuck Elon Musk.



***Rant over***

[chuckrh]

***Warning!!! Rant incoming!***



Fuck Elon Musk.



***Rant over***

Him, Zuckerberg & Bezos. The American ogliarchy. Amongst others hiding in the shadows in a lot of cases.

[beantownbubba]

***Warning!!! Rant incoming!***



Fuck Elon Musk.



***Rant over***

Him, Zuckerberg & Bezos. The American ogliarchy. Amongst others hiding in the shadows in a lot of cases.

You mean like Peter Thiel?

[chuckrh]

***Warning!!! Rant incoming!***



Fuck Elon Musk.



***Rant over***

Him, Zuckerberg & Bezos. The American ogliarchy. Amongst others hiding in the shadows in a lot of cases.

You mean like Peter Thiel?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i89nq3kxT24[/youtube]

[brettac1]

https://noturtlesoup17.substack.com/p/a ... dium=email

[jr29]

So I voted at my longtime precinct this morning. It's a middle school. They moved the location from the gym to the library. I had to use a different entrance that was probably 50 feet from the prior entrance. You couldn't miss it. Everything was well marked, folks were pleasant....no issues.
Fast forward to this afternoon, I see a guy online saying that he never received a notification about the entrance change. To him that equals election shenanigans. I am going to assume this man is a conservative. The area is probably 70% Republican.
That's the kind of shit our democracy is up against.

[beantownbubba]

So I voted at my longtime precinct this morning. It's a middle school. They moved the location from the gym to the library. I had to use a different entrance that was probably 50 feet from the prior entrance. You couldn't miss it. Everything was well marked, folks were pleasant....no issues.
Fast forward to this afternoon, I see a guy online saying that he never received a notification about the entrance change. To him that equals election shenanigans. I am going to assume this man is a conservative. The area is probably 70% Republican.
That's the kind of shit our democracy is up against.

20-25 years ago, the guy comes home complains to his wife, maybe the next door neighbor and possibly the guy on the next bar stool. And his complaint is about the inconvenience of it all. Now, he's got a megaphone and a formless and therefore easily adaptable conspiracy theory to latch on to. This is not progress.

Had a similar experience about 10 years ago: Voting location was the same but the entrance had moved about 15 or 20 yards. It never even occurred to me that thus was any kind of issue. Sigh.