The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by brettac1 »

beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:57 am
brettac1 wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 8:04 pm
It’s been an excruciatingly awful few months and there’s still four more weeks til election day.
Which reminds me: Living in the Commonwealth of my vote doesn't count for squat, I thankfully don't see many political ads. But this summer I saw plenty while I was in Florida and I do see a few now for the NH senate & governor races. OMG. If I had to be subjected to that stuff regularly as I'm sure many of you are by now I'd be well past screaming at the screen on to maybe flinging things at it. And I'm sure it's been getting worse as election day finally approaches and various races have either tightened up or unexpectedly widened. I feel sorry for y'all.
It's pretty brutal here ad-wise and the only live TV I watch is sports. Hell, every time I hop in the truck I hear a couple ads and I live less than five minutes from the office. I can only imagine what someone who sits and watches TV all day in a battleground state is bombarded with on a daily basis. I even pay for YouTube Premium to avoid them there.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Clams »

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by brettac1 »

Clams wrote:
Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:02 pm
Image

The gloves have come off in Philadelphia
The ones here are just varying ways of saying "did you know Mandela Barnes is black?"
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

A bad day for the Donald, which means a better day for most of the rest of us. He just doesn't seem to get that the same shit that worked on construction contractors and bankers just doesn't work on Congress and the Supreme Court. No, I don't think he'll ever actually testify and if he does he'll do nothing but take the 5th (because when Donald Trump takes the 5th it means he's being persecuted but when anyone else does so it's because they're guilty). But still, it's one more problem, one more hassle, one more set of lawyers to pay. And the Supreme Court thing must be driving him nuts because in his transactional world view he sees the Court as his private plaything, bought and paid for. Ooops. I obviously can't take that too far because I have plenty of doubts about the Court but for one moment at least I can enjoy them doing the right thing, especially when they stick it to Trump.

BTW, I thought the Committiee's narrative presentation was a very well done "closing argument" explaining very clearly what all the parts and pieces mean and how they fit into the whole.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Oct 13, 2022 4:17 pm
A bad day for the Donald, which means a better day for most of the rest of us. He just doesn't seem to get that the same shit that worked on construction contractors and bankers just doesn't work on Congress and the Supreme Court. No, I don't think he'll ever actually testify and if he does he'll do nothing but take the 5th (because when Donald Trump takes the 5th it means he's being persecuted but when anyone else does so it's because they're guilty). But still, it's one more problem, one more hassle, one more set of lawyers to pay. And the Supreme Court thing must be driving him nuts because in his transactional world view he sees the Court as his private plaything, bought and paid for. Ooops. I obviously can't take that too far because I have plenty of doubts about the Court but for one moment at least I can enjoy them doing the right thing, especially when they stick it to Trump.

BTW, I thought the Committiee's narrative presentation was a very well done "closing argument" explaining very clearly what all the parts and pieces mean and how they fit into the whole.
...and references to criminal referrals for those that continued to take the 5th. I just hope they can somehow push to the 14th Amendment so many of these people, including the Orange Traitor can never hold office again. Alas, I suspect that this just pushes him to announce a run quickly, creating his own - and our own - quagmire.

Oh the times we live in. I just hope I live long enough to read a paper one day and not see his name.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Flea »

pearlbeer wrote:
Thu Oct 13, 2022 5:18 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Oct 13, 2022 4:17 pm
A bad day for the Donald, which means a better day for most of the rest of us. He just doesn't seem to get that the same shit that worked on construction contractors and bankers just doesn't work on Congress and the Supreme Court. No, I don't think he'll ever actually testify and if he does he'll do nothing but take the 5th (because when Donald Trump takes the 5th it means he's being persecuted but when anyone else does so it's because they're guilty). But still, it's one more problem, one more hassle, one more set of lawyers to pay. And the Supreme Court thing must be driving him nuts because in his transactional world view he sees the Court as his private plaything, bought and paid for. Ooops. I obviously can't take that too far because I have plenty of doubts about the Court but for one moment at least I can enjoy them doing the right thing, especially when they stick it to Trump.

BTW, I thought the Committiee's narrative presentation was a very well done "closing argument" explaining very clearly what all the parts and pieces mean and how they fit into the whole.
...and references to criminal referrals for those that continued to take the 5th. I just hope they can somehow push to the 14th Amendment so many of these people, including the Orange Traitor can never hold office again. Alas, I suspect that this just pushes him to announce a run quickly, creating his own - and our own - quagmire.

Oh the times we live in. I just hope I live long enough to read a paper one day and not see his name.
I would be happy to see his name in the paper, followed by the word "DEAD".
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Swamp »

Fucking Biden! Tickets for Patterson's Gainesville show next month are $350 each.
and the rest as they say is uh er uh, well somebodies history somewhere?

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

Swamp wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:00 pm
Fucking Biden! Tickets for Patterson's Gainesville show next month are $350 each.
Thanks Obama!
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

cortez the killer wrote:
Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:02 am
Swamp wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:00 pm
Fucking Biden! Tickets for Patterson's Gainesville show next month are $350 each.
Thanks Obama!
Don't forget Hilary!

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:54 pm
...and a likely historically short tenure for the new PM.
Not quite up there with, say, predicting the Mets 1969 World Championship in April of that year, but still, you heard it here first.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:07 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:54 pm
...and a likely historically short tenure for the new PM.
Not quite up there with, say, predicting the Mets 1969 World Championship in April of that year, but still, you heard it here first.

Lettuce outlasts British Prime Minister Liz Truss...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 550743002/
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:07 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:54 pm
...and a likely historically short tenure for the new PM.
Not quite up there with, say, predicting the Mets 1969 World Championship in April of that year, but still, you heard it here first.
Could you please predict "reversal of Brexit and final destruction of the conservative party" next?

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

305 Engine wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:32 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:07 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:54 pm
...and a likely historically short tenure for the new PM.
Not quite up there with, say, predicting the Mets 1969 World Championship in April of that year, but still, you heard it here first.
Could you please predict "reversal of Brexit and final destruction of the conservative party" next?
Hey, hey....if you've got that kind of mojo, btb, let's keep it on this side of the pond first.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

305 Engine wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:32 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:07 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:54 pm
...and a likely historically short tenure for the new PM.
Not quite up there with, say, predicting the Mets 1969 World Championship in April of that year, but still, you heard it here first.
Could you please predict "reversal of Brexit and final destruction of the conservative party" next?
Alas, based solely on the widely predicted demise of the Republican Party in the US after the 2012 election, I predict that reports of the demise of the Conservative Party in the UK are greatly exaggerated. This is not to say that a Trumpian dystopia must necessarily follow, but the Con Party is not disappearing any time soon.

As for Brexit I continue to believe that a return to the fold by the UK is inevitable. I just don't know the scenario it will follow or the timing of it.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Slate reminded me that the Federalist, I mean 5th, Circuit outdid itself this week by declaring the Consumer Finance Protection Board unconstitutional. The Court's reasoning is typically specious and all the usual hypocrisies apply (judicial lawmaking/activism, violating the separation of powers, ignoring long-established precedent, etc), But that's no reason to ignore the harm this court is doing on a regular basis. While not directly analagous, this decision harkens back to the early years of the New Deal when the Supreme Court struck down a bunch of FDR's legislation and new agencies. Like the 1930's was some golden age???
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Brian Klaas arguing in The Atlantic that Truss's fall is actually an indication that democracy in the UK is in better shape than in the US:

"Paradoxically, Truss’s downfall shows that British democracy is still working. Polarization is so toxic in the U.S. that Trump never dipped below about 35 percent approval, no matter what he did. Truss, who was incompetent but far less dangerous, saw her approval ratings flirt with single digits before she was forced out. Her political party and political base turned on her...

"But what if the views of the public barely change because polarization reigns supreme? When that happens, democracies stagnate, accountability disappears, and politicians can get away with anything...

"The volatility of public support for leaders functions as a rough proxy for democratic health, with greater swings reflecting a healthier system. Polling volatility is by no means the only measure, but it can offer important clues. The healthiest democracies are home to an electorate in which voters change their minds when the facts change, punishing governments who fail and rewarding those who succeed. But in most American presidential elections, virtually anyone with D or R next to their name can be assured of the support of at least 40 percent of the electorate. Had Truss been a politician in America, she’d still command that level of support...

"Trump intensified American polarization through extraordinarily divisive tactics, turning politics into a sport akin to professional wrestling. Policy mattered less while making “the right people” angry mattered more.

America’s media environment is also far more fractured than Britain’s, giving partisans the option to “choose your own reality.” Whenever Trump did something egregious, his supporters could consume a steady diet of commentary that consistently explained why it was a “hoax” or a “deep state” plot, or, if all else failed, that the Democrats were still worse. In Britain, TV and radio are far more regulated and far more centrist. As a result, audiences hear more discussions of how to solve problems than arguments over whether a problem is real or not. And despite Johnson’s infamous shamelessness, it’s clear that shaming politicians still works in the United Kingdom.

Finally, British electoral districts are, on the whole, drawn fairly. That has a profound effect on competitiveness, such that hundreds of members of parliament genuinely fear losing their jobs in the next election. In contrast, due to gerrymandering and demographic sorting in the United States, just 31 seats out of 435 in the U.S. House of Representatives are considered a toss-up in the upcoming midterm elections, and only 20 more “lean” Republican or Democrat. That means that 88 percent of the members of the House have nothing to fear from voters, which is not only unhealthy for democracy but also ensures that those elected officials rarely turn on their own. Republicans fear losing a primary if they whisper the mildest criticism of Donald Trump. Tories in Britain feared losing their seats if they whispered praise of Liz Truss."
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 5:37 pm


As for Brexit I continue to believe that a return to the fold by the UK is inevitable. I just don't know the scenario it will follow or the timing of it.
Agree with this bit. And i think the history books will cite today as the moment it became inevitable. But thats obvs a long term prediction.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:16 pm
Brian Klaas arguing in The Atlantic that Truss's fall is actually an indication that democracy in the UK is in better shape than in the US:

"Paradoxically, Truss’s downfall shows that British democracy is still working. Polarization is so toxic in the U.S. that Trump never dipped below about 35 percent approval, no matter what he did. Truss, who was incompetent but far less dangerous, saw her approval ratings flirt with single digits before she was forced out. Her political party and political base turned on her...

"But what if the views of the public barely change because polarization reigns supreme? When that happens, democracies stagnate, accountability disappears, and politicians can get away with anything...

"The volatility of public support for leaders functions as a rough proxy for democratic health, with greater swings reflecting a healthier system. Polling volatility is by no means the only measure, but it can offer important clues. The healthiest democracies are home to an electorate in which voters change their minds when the facts change, punishing governments who fail and rewarding those who succeed. But in most American presidential elections, virtually anyone with D or R next to their name can be assured of the support of at least 40 percent of the electorate. Had Truss been a politician in America, she’d still command that level of support...

"Trump intensified American polarization through extraordinarily divisive tactics, turning politics into a sport akin to professional wrestling. Policy mattered less while making “the right people” angry mattered more.

America’s media environment is also far more fractured than Britain’s, giving partisans the option to “choose your own reality.” Whenever Trump did something egregious, his supporters could consume a steady diet of commentary that consistently explained why it was a “hoax” or a “deep state” plot, or, if all else failed, that the Democrats were still worse. In Britain, TV and radio are far more regulated and far more centrist. As a result, audiences hear more discussions of how to solve problems than arguments over whether a problem is real or not. And despite Johnson’s infamous shamelessness, it’s clear that shaming politicians still works in the United Kingdom.

Finally, British electoral districts are, on the whole, drawn fairly. That has a profound effect on competitiveness, such that hundreds of members of parliament genuinely fear losing their jobs in the next election. In contrast, due to gerrymandering and demographic sorting in the United States, just 31 seats out of 435 in the U.S. House of Representatives are considered a toss-up in the upcoming midterm elections, and only 20 more “lean” Republican or Democrat. That means that 88 percent of the members of the House have nothing to fear from voters, which is not only unhealthy for democracy but also ensures that those elected officials rarely turn on their own. Republicans fear losing a primary if they whisper the mildest criticism of Donald Trump. Tories in Britain feared losing their seats if they whispered praise of Liz Truss."
You could very easily make the opposing argument here.

Truss would never have won an actual general election. She was always an absurd choice. But she became leader of her party and therefore leader of her country anyway. Whatever the limitations of the US system, a President can legitimately claim to have a mandate from the nation.

The point about the sizes of "electoral districts", probably true but for me the UKs FPTP system creates a similar problem to the one the electoral college creates in the states.

The point about the media. Yeah maybe. But the internet makes it very easy to live in an info bubble regardless.

Both UK and US have probably seen the limits of their systems writ large over the past 6 years. Just in slightly different ways.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

305 Engine wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:32 pm
Both UK and US have probably seen the limits of their systems writ large over the past 6 years. Just in slightly different ways.
That seems fair. But it does seem like a stark difference that it is the Con Party that pushed Truss out while supporting Trump's election lies is essentially a litmus test for Republican candidates and virtually no prominent Republicans other than Cheney and sort of Romney have broken from Trump despite the fact that he led an insurrection.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Flea »

305 Engine wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:32 pm


You could very easily make the opposing argument here.

Truss would never have won an actual general election. She was always an absurd choice. But she became leader of her party and therefore leader of her country anyway. Whatever the limitations of the US system, a President can legitimately claim to have a mandate from the nation.

The point about the sizes of "electoral districts", probably true but for me the UKs FPTP system creates a similar problem to the one the electoral college creates in the states.

The point about the media. Yeah maybe. But the internet makes it very easy to live in an info bubble regardless.

Both UK and US have probably seen the limits of their systems writ large over the past 6 years. Just in slightly different ways.

Total disagreement. In my oponion, when a President can ascend to power with fewer votes than his/her opponent, a mandate is NOT reached. But both US parties will claim that it is.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

Flea wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:34 pm
305 Engine wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:32 pm


You could very easily make the opposing argument here.

Truss would never have won an actual general election. She was always an absurd choice. But she became leader of her party and therefore leader of her country anyway. Whatever the limitations of the US system, a President can legitimately claim to have a mandate from the nation.

The point about the sizes of "electoral districts", probably true but for me the UKs FPTP system creates a similar problem to the one the electoral college creates in the states.

The point about the media. Yeah maybe. But the internet makes it very easy to live in an info bubble regardless.

Both UK and US have probably seen the limits of their systems writ large over the past 6 years. Just in slightly different ways.

Total disagreement. In my oponion, when a President can ascend to power with fewer votes than his/her opponent, a mandate is NOT reached. But both US parties will claim that it is.
Yeah I get that and I agree that the US should probably change it's voting system. What I mean is that in the UK, so long as a party has won the last election, they can install as leader whichever idiot they like. The chaos currently happening in the UK just wouldnt happen in the US.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

Flea wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:34 pm
305 Engine wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:32 pm


You could very easily make the opposing argument here.

Truss would never have won an actual general election. She was always an absurd choice. But she became leader of her party and therefore leader of her country anyway. Whatever the limitations of the US system, a President can legitimately claim to have a mandate from the nation.

The point about the sizes of "electoral districts", probably true but for me the UKs FPTP system creates a similar problem to the one the electoral college creates in the states.

The point about the media. Yeah maybe. But the internet makes it very easy to live in an info bubble regardless.

Both UK and US have probably seen the limits of their systems writ large over the past 6 years. Just in slightly different ways.

Total disagreement. In my oponion, when a President can ascend to power with fewer votes than his/her opponent, a mandate is NOT reached. But both US parties will claim that it is.

But then what would we mander, Jerry?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

Watching Liz Cheney on Meet the Press. I hope I'm not going to hell for this but she sounds pretty reasonable, at least on the Jan 6 stuff. Big step considering her dad is a major minion of Satan.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

chuckrh wrote:
Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:13 am
Watching Liz Cheney on Meet the Press. I hope I'm not going to hell for this but she sounds pretty reasonable, at least on the Jan 6 stuff. Big step considering her dad is a major minion of Satan.
Cheney is as conservative as ever and it is unlikely that you or I agree with even 10% of her political positions. But she's all in as a patriot and defender of the Constitution and my guess is that we're in something close to 100% agreement with her on issues relating to 1/6, alleged election fraud, her understanding of Trump as a conman, fraud and criminal extraordinaire and the like and that counts for a lot. There used to be a lot more politicians like her and their disappearance is this country's loss. There never was a golden age of selfless politicians working solely for the benefit of "the people" and working collegially and professionally with people of other viewpoints for the common good, but it has only rarely been as bad as it is now (talking just USA). Unfortunately, as others have noted multiple times, the period most similar to our current era was the late 1850's and we know how that turned out. Some say the 1880's & 90's were pretty damn bad as well and while I'm no expert my sense is that that era was more about straightforward big business and machine politics corruption ("smoke filled back room" tropes date to this era) as opposed to the political polarization of the antebellum and current periods.

The less said about Dick Cheney the better.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

Clarence Thomas freezing the order for Lady Graham to testify is a fucking joke. His goddamn wife is testifying about her involvement in the same election related issues. I'd assume recusal is an option here? He's your final evidence if you were wondering if this court is politicized or not. No attempt to obfuscate or rationalize here, just a giant "fuck you, we will do what we want". It's horrifying and dangerous. An electorate that loses faith and respect for the judicial system is on a narrow path toward anarchy. I know this issue is likely to be quickly escalated (and hopefully corrected), but the chutzpah of this ruling is quite disturbing.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

pearlbeer wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:30 pm
Clarence Thomas freezing the order for Lady Graham to testify is a fucking joke. His goddamn wife is testifying about her involvement in the same election related issues. I'd assume recusal is an option here? He's your final evidence if you were wondering if this court is politicized or not. No attempt to obfuscate or rationalize here, just a giant "fuck you, we will do what we want". It's horrifying and dangerous. An electorate that loses faith and respect for the judicial system is on a narrow path toward anarchy. I know this issue is likely to be quickly escalated (and hopefully corrected), but the chutzpah of this ruling is quite disturbing.
Thomas is notorious for not recusing himself when most judges/justices would and this is just the latest example. Sure it's partisan politics but even more, and I assume less controversially, it's plain unethical. But wait! The Supreme Court literally does not have a code of ethics. True story. If CJ Roberts is serious about wanting to do something to begin to restore the Court's reputation he could do a lot worse than starting w/ a code of ethics for justices which would include guidelines, if not straightforward rules, for recusing oneself. In the meantime, it's typically disgusting standard operating procedure for Clarence being Clarence.

PS I thought his name is Graham Cracker.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

Can Democracy Survive?
Maybe, just barely. The long view is not encouraging.

There is now a three-way alliance among corporate plutocrats, Caesarists who look to dictatorship in the name of the people, and a justifiably angry working class. This doesn’t sound like American exceptionalism. It’s a variation on the fall of other civilizations throughout Western history.

Today, more nations than at any time since the 1930s are either explicit dictatorships—Russia, China, Saudi Arabia—or weakened democracies that are on the ropes, including much of Europe. In Italy, neofascists are running the government; in Sweden, they are the largest party; in France, the far right will be a finalist in the next presidential election; and in Britain, the ruling political class has committed suicide.

Democracy in one Western nation after another has lost the confidence of the demos, the people in whose name it governs. This has occurred because oligarchies corrupted the state in multiple ways, a theme with resonances throughout Western history.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

We've got the vice president (AKA the invisible woman) in town messing up traffic all day. Oh joy!

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

chuckrh wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:45 am
We've got the vice president (AKA the invisible woman) in town messing up traffic all day. Oh joy!
Traffic issues aside, what are your (and/or the "general") expectations for a vice president besides being invisible, going to the occasional state funeral in the president's place and casting the very occasional deciding vote in the Senate?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

I know I'm old. And more old fashioned than I like to think of myself. Maybe a bit crazy and not all that smart or probably some combination thereof. Nonetheless, it seems to me that when the economy grows at a 2.6% annual rate while unemployment remains at or near historic lows while the Fed has raised interest rates at least 3.25% and may raise them higher, that's something close to an economic miracle and a pretty impressive performance by virtually any measure (except the measures being applied by the usual suspects, including the MSM). Why is the story "recession still likely next year" when the story is actually "economy continues to perform well despite significant headwinds"? And probably more importantly, why aren't the Dems shouting the correct story?
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

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