The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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chuckrh
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 3:23 pm
chuckrh wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:45 am
We've got the vice president (AKA the invisible woman) in town messing up traffic all day. Oh joy!
Traffic issues aside, what are your (and/or the "general") expectations for a vice president besides being invisible, going to the occasional state funeral in the president's place and casting the very occasional deciding vote in the Senate?
It just seemed to me she big talked a lot during the campaign. It almost seems like she's distancing herself from BIden to a certain extent. Just a general impression. There are plenty of issues she could at least be speaking out on.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 3:24 pm
I know I'm old. And more old fashioned than I like to think of myself. Maybe a bit crazy and not all that smart or probably some combination thereof. Nonetheless, it seems to me that when the economy grows at a 2.6% annual rate while unemployment remains at or near historic lows while the Fed has raised interest rates at least 3.25% and may raise them higher, that's something close to an economic miracle and a pretty impressive performance by virtually any measure (except the measures being applied by the usual suspects, including the MSM). Why is the story "recession still likely next year" when the story is actually "economy continues to perform well despite significant headwinds"? And probably more importantly, why aren't the Dems shouting the correct story?
The Dems have MANY messaging issues, and a Leadership team that would make the Crypt Keeper look young. (and you forgot to add in largely stable/somewhat reasonable gas prices, against all odds in here)

But I'm with you. Seems like everyone is being a big ol' nasty Bear. Certainly, the market hates uncertainty, and there is a lot out there - Midterms, Ukraine, Falling Tech Profits, Inflation, Rising Inventories, High Mortgage Rates, Inflated Housing...I can go on.

I think the collective belt-tightening, coupled with the Republican-Chicken-Little-The-Sky-Is-Falling-Please-God-Make-It-Fall-Faster messaging is creating a vortex. Much of this has just never been seen. Consumer spending and supply chains dried up almost over night and then returned with much more gusto than anticipated. I'm betting that the fundamentals are stable enough to keep us from long term pain.

Now, this only exacerbates the growing wealth disparity that will eventually break and bring the system to it's knees, but we may see the coming Climate Wars prior to that.

Wow. I was trying to post a validating, positive message and went real dark, real quick. I hate election season.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

pearlbeer wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 3:57 pm
Wow. I was trying to post a validating, positive message and went real dark, real quick.
Funny (not haha) how that happens, isn't it? We sure do live in interesting times.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

Inflation has a large number of driving factors, especially considering the extraordinary times we have lived through during and after the pandemic.

...but...Corporate Profits and Greed ARE quite certainly one of the driving factors. Price gouging at it's finest. We bailed these fuckers out, a number of times. Don't forget it.

"Exxon Mobil and Chevron, the largest U.S. oil companies, reported on Friday a fourth consecutive quarter of robust profits on the back of high oil and natural gas prices and strong chemical and refining earnings.

But the companies remain cautious as they face uncertain future prices because of a weakening global economy and international conflict.

Exxon’s profit of $19.7 billion from operations topped the previous quarter’s $17.9 billion. The oil giant’s latest quarterly profit was nearly triple what it made in the same period last year. It cited oil and natural gas output as major contributors, along with cost cutting."



https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/10/28 ... y-earnings
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chuckrh
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

There's some really good humor here. Sawant is our Socialist (in a $2 million house) city council person who was everywhere rabble rousing during BLM. & it a lot of it had nothing to do with BLM. I'm convinced she's an agent of Putin who got told to tone it down. Anyway, she was all about defunding the police. Now she has the problem below. I'm sure when she calls they are laughing their asses off. "Sorry ma'am, the poop patrol got defunded". & the police dept has been so beaten down that in a lot of ways we're lawless in this city. Stuff like ignoring bus lanes, double parking in the middle of the street by delivery trucks, etc. I know a business owner who almost had his business burned down by a homeless person hiding out in the doorway trying to smoke meth in the middle of the night. They got it all on film & the police aren't doing anything about it. The solution now is give them a hug & send them on their way. I digress though. Anyway, if you live in Seattle & aren't a socialist you got a pretty good laugh over this.

https://news.yahoo.com/indian-american- ... 05059.html

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

In today's column in the WaPo, David Von Drehle talks about John Meachem's new bio of Lincoln, which Von Drehle is very high on. He quotes Meachem quoting Lincoln:

"...Lincoln’s early address to the temperance society of Springfield, Ill., takes on fresh importance. Other biographies mention this 1842 event as another rung along Lincoln’s rise. But in Meacham’s account, Lincoln speaks to our time as well as his own. Righteous lecturing is no way to win people to a cause. “To be hectored and condemned; to be told that they were wholly wrong” was for Lincoln “a path not to reform but to intransigence,” Meacham writes. “If you would win a man to your cause,” he quotes Lincoln, “first convince him that you are his sincere friend.”

“On the contrary,” the young frontier politician continued, “assume to dictate to his judgment, or to command his action, or to mark him as one to be shunned and despised, and he will retreat within himself.” The “head and heart” of the person one wishes to change become as impenetrable as “the hard shell of a tortoise.”
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by brettac1 »

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/0 ... n-00064801

This is depressing to read and even moreso to have lived and witnessed as someone who has lived in rural WI my entire life.

This whole change has really accelerated (from my perspective) in the past ~20 years as the party has shifted away from having any clear political project and become what is essentially a lifestyle/Twitter brand helmed by consultants. The lifestyle brand part is generally true for both parties, I suppose.

I think anyone who is paying attention can see where the country (and world, for that matter) is headed in the relatively near future. With the rampant reactionary streak that runs through the entire country, I don't even feel all that certain that one party is even capable of making it happen more slowly, let alone stopping it. Obviously I hope I'm completely wrong but the vibes do not feel good in my neck of the woods.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

brettac1 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:44 am
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/0 ... n-00064801

This is depressing to read and even moreso to have lived and witnessed as someone who has lived in rural WI my entire life.

This whole change has really accelerated (from my perspective) in the past ~20 years as the party has shifted away from having any clear political project and become what is essentially a lifestyle/Twitter brand helmed by consultants. The lifestyle brand part is generally true for both parties, I suppose.

I think anyone who is paying attention can see where the country (and world, for that matter) is headed in the relatively near future. With the rampant reactionary streak that runs through the entire country, I don't even feel all that certain that one party is even capable of making it happen more slowly, let alone stopping it. Obviously I hope I'm completely wrong but the vibes do not feel good in my neck of the woods.
I've been seeing ads depicting Biden as a progressive president. I have a problem with that. Sure, progressive as compared to a lot of the GOP folks but to me he is another chapter in the status quo with the Dems. It's too bad they didn't go with someone who is actually progressive like Sanders or Warren. I'm really afraid next Tuesday is going to be really ugly.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

brettac1 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:44 am
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/0 ... n-00064801

This is depressing to read and even moreso to have lived and witnessed as someone who has lived in rural WI my entire life.

This whole change has really accelerated (from my perspective) in the past ~20 years as the party has shifted away from having any clear political project and become what is essentially a lifestyle/Twitter brand helmed by consultants. The lifestyle brand part is generally true for both parties, I suppose.

I think anyone who is paying attention can see where the country (and world, for that matter) is headed in the relatively near future. With the rampant reactionary streak that runs through the entire country, I don't even feel all that certain that one party is even capable of making it happen more slowly, let alone stopping it. Obviously I hope I'm completely wrong but the vibes do not feel good in my neck of the woods.
It's very depressing. I've been reading Michael Moore's blog to try to keep some sanity. In summary, he believes the polls are wrong, people are mad and motivated and we wont see a bunch of clowns elected to office. But, I agree with you - it's a lifestyle thing now - we've turned politics into professional wrestling. {{{deep sigh}}}
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

In the short term my totally unscientific* belief is that the Reps will take the House but only at the level of, say, +10 and the Senate will be a matter of +/- 1 in either direction. At least for the next 2 years this will matter a lot in terms of theatrics, e.g. the end of the 1/6 investigation, impeachments and "investigations" of anyone and everyone on virtually no pretext, grandstanding and playing high stakes poker on the debt ceiling and so forth. The fact remains that w/out the President's signature, there's not much that the Reps can actually accomplish. The problem is that they don't really care: Stirring the pot, creating chaos, owning the libs, etc have become ends in themselves so it will be difficult and anxiety provoking to watch.

Just as a btw, not even attempting to fix the debt ceiling fiasco is perhaps the worst thing the Democrats have [not] done this year. There is a slight possibility they can fix this in the coming lame duck session but I'm reading that they do not even intend to try. Ridiculous. Political malpractice.

*"Totally unscientific" means that this is my overall gut feeling based on my general sense of things and not, e.g., the result of detailed data analysis, polling, or the kind of deep dive that analyzes each specific race in order to build up to an aggregate conclusion.

But the real problem we have is the Democratic Party. In a collective act of extreme ignorance, incompetence, hubris, arrogance, myopia and overall Beltwayitis. as a party the Dems have completely misunderstood the state of play. I don't know why it's so hard to understand that at least since 2016, Republican votes have not been so much about voting FOR Republicans as they have been votes against Democrats, reflecting real dismay and disgust with the system, and a deeply felt, personal sense of alienation, dislocation and rejection of the system. While it is easier to dismiss most of this with disdain for "non college educated whites," "low information voters" or, my "favorite," flyover land" because that comes coupled with not-without-reason suspicions of racism and various other isms, that is neither a complete nor ultimately correct analysis. Put a slightly different way, Democrats have fallen for the smokescreen and disinformation of the "culture wars" which has allowed them to take the self-perceived moral high ground while ignoring the real messages being sent. Most likely because the overall message is "YOU'VE FUCKED UP ROYALLY AND ARE EITHER INCOMPETENT OR CORRUPT" and who wants to hear, much less believe, that message?

In order to even begin to understand what's actually happening, Democrats need to understand just how much the stereotypical Democratic voter has benefited from the ways in which the system works and the at least equal and opposite ways in which people not in that group(s) have been beaten up by that system. For the first time ever (yeah, it can be argued, but i think it's basically true), politics in America has become a zero sum game. Fighting over a shrinking pie is inherently ugly and dangerous and is unlikely to end well unless it is acknowledged and attacked directly.

I suppose that one reason that this is so hard to see is that there's a shell game going on within the game: Republicans allegedly want to restore something more like free market capitalism while Democrats want to establish a kinder, gentler capitalism, so neither party recognizes that capitalism has failed in its most basic functions, allocating resources efficiently and expanding the pie. Unfortunately for all of us, as far as i know there is no good answer as to what might replace the spit and duct tape version of capitalism currently in place which I suppose is another reason to focus on other things.

There is some self interest here that ought to be compelling: No matter what you do, no matter how educated you are, artificial intelligence is coming for your job next. Who will you vote for then?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by brettac1 »

Very well put, Bubba. Much better than I'm able to on my phone at my desk!
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by schlanky »

beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:46 pm

But the real problem we have is the Democratic Party. In a collective act of extreme ignorance, incompetence, hubris, arrogance, myopia and overall Beltwayitis. as a party the Dems have completely misunderstood the state of play. I don't know why it's so hard to understand that at least since 2016, Republican votes have not been so much about voting FOR Republicans as they have been votes against Democrats, reflecting real dismay and disgust with the system, and a deeply felt, personal sense of alienation, dislocation and rejection of the system. While it is easier to dismiss most of this with disdain for "non college educated whites," "low information voters" or, my "favorite," flyover land" because that comes coupled with not-without-reason suspicions of racism and various other isms, that is neither a complete nor ultimately correct analysis. Put a slightly different way, Democrats have fallen for the smokescreen and disinformation of the "culture wars" which has allowed them to take the self-perceived moral high ground while ignoring the real messages being sent. Most likely because the overall message is "YOU'VE FUCKED UP ROYALLY AND ARE EITHER INCOMPETENT OR CORRUPT" and who wants to hear, much less believe, that message?
Amen, brother. It's disheartening.
beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:46 pm

No matter what you do, no matter how educated you are, artificial intelligence is coming for your job next. Who will you vote for then?
HAL 9000 has a proven track record--- he will never stray from the focus of the true mission.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

schlanky wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 1:34 pm
HAL 9000 has a proven track record--- he will never stray from the focus of the true mission.
To mix metaphors,* Dave's not here, man.

*Actually mixing cultural references but that doesn't sound as good.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by jr29 »

IMO, Tim Ryan is the best democrat on the ticket. I've heard on podcasts and whatnot that the DNC has spent almost no money on him. I'm not sure if that says more about the state of affairs in Ohio and the country, or how inept the DNC is.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by brettac1 »

My understanding is that he's essentially running as some kind of anti-Democrat Democrat. I would say it speaks volumes about Ohio that JD fucking Vance is very likely to get elected as a Senator from there.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by jr29 »

brettac1 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:39 pm
My understanding is that he's essentially running as some kind of anti-Democrat Democrat. I would say it speaks volumes about Ohio that JD fucking Vance is very likely to get elected as a Senator from there.
An anti-Democrat Democrat platform is A-ok with me.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

jr29 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:44 pm
brettac1 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:39 pm
My understanding is that he's essentially running as some kind of anti-Democrat Democrat. I would say it speaks volumes about Ohio that JD fucking Vance is very likely to get elected as a Senator from there.
An anti-Democrat Democrat platform is A-ok with me.
IMO after this cycle, anyone over the age of 70 should be booted out of any leadership position. If the message is out of touch, we can start with the ones with mouthfuls of hard candy.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by jr29 »

pearlbeer wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:59 pm
jr29 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:44 pm
brettac1 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:39 pm
My understanding is that he's essentially running as some kind of anti-Democrat Democrat. I would say it speaks volumes about Ohio that JD fucking Vance is very likely to get elected as a Senator from there.
An anti-Democrat Democrat platform is A-ok with me.
IMO after this cycle, anyone over the age of 70 should be booted out of any leadership position. If the message is out of touch, we can start with the ones with mouthfuls of hard candy.
My fear with that is that we'd end up with more serious lunatics in office. Chuck Grassley is 89 and it's ridiculous that he's running again. However, he is a human being and the person who replaces him might not be.....The Walker, Tuberville, Trump, etc type.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by brettac1 »

Odds are that any Republicans in the foreseeable future will be from that lineage. I think this whole "MAGA Republicans" vs "normal Republicans" thing is a distinction without a difference and only serves to give cover to people I'd rather not have it. Grassley was endorsed by Trump, voted with him overwhelmingly, etc.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

jr29 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 5:04 pm
pearlbeer wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:59 pm
jr29 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:44 pm


An anti-Democrat Democrat platform is A-ok with me.
IMO after this cycle, anyone over the age of 70 should be booted out of any leadership position. If the message is out of touch, we can start with the ones with mouthfuls of hard candy.
My fear with that is that we'd end up with more serious lunatics in office. Chuck Grassley is 89 and it's ridiculous that he's running again. However, he is a human being and the person who replaces him might not be.....The Walker, Tuberville, Trump, etc type.
That's true, but I was talking about the Blue side of the fence. You are right...could be worse...I guess?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Flea »

The January 6 mob had one thing - and only one thing - right: our sclerotic Federal system will never change unless it is burned to the ground and rebuilt. They just don't realize that the aftermath will be damn ugly for everyone except those holding the reins.
Now it's dark.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

brettac1 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:39 pm
My understanding is that he's essentially running as some kind of anti-Democrat Democrat. I would say it speaks volumes about Ohio that JD fucking Vance is very likely to get elected as a Senator from there.
Tim Ryan is on a dead sprint towards the center, and it's fucking infuriating.

My only choice for Democrat senator is a guy who runs TV ads bragging about how he agrees with Trump on trade and China.

Fuck off (Tim Ryan, not you)
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

pearlbeer wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:59 pm
jr29 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:44 pm
brettac1 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:39 pm
My understanding is that he's essentially running as some kind of anti-Democrat Democrat. I would say it speaks volumes about Ohio that JD fucking Vance is very likely to get elected as a Senator from there.
An anti-Democrat Democrat platform is A-ok with me.
IMO after this cycle, anyone over the age of 70 should be booted out of any leadership position. If the message is out of touch, we can start with the ones with mouthfuls of hard candy.
Including president. Someone sent me a video the other day of a recent Biden speech where he said he met the inventor of insulen. Houston we have a problem: the guy who invented the insulin drug died in the 1940s. Not sure if the link below will work but here it is:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/chat_ ... Ys6kR=w512

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by jr29 »

Zip City wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:12 pm
brettac1 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:39 pm
My understanding is that he's essentially running as some kind of anti-Democrat Democrat. I would say it speaks volumes about Ohio that JD fucking Vance is very likely to get elected as a Senator from there.
Tim Ryan is on a dead sprint towards the center, and it's fucking infuriating.

My only choice for Democrat senator is a guy who runs TV ads bragging about how he agrees with Trump on trade and China.

Fuck off (Tim Ryan, not you)
I assume you’d prefer a more liberal candidate.
Vance would be leading by 10+ points in that case.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

Zip City wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:12 pm
My only choice for Democrat senator is a guy who runs TV ads bragging about how he agrees with Trump on trade and China.
I can't bring myself to say Trump was right, but it's pretty clear the Bush-Clinton-Bush flash deindustrialization of America sure fucked up the place. If Tim Ryan has to phrase that in a way that might win him votes, more power to him. It's not like he's running for president this time.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

jr29 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:05 pm
IMO, Tim Ryan is the best democrat on the ticket. I've heard on podcasts and whatnot that the DNC has spent almost no money on him. I'm not sure if that says more about the state of affairs in Ohio and the country, or how inept the DNC is.
I've heard from a couple of Dem activists that I follow in one way or another that the DNC and related entities (i.e. PACs) is NOT spending money on Ryan, initially because they didn't think he could win. As he's shown more strength, his campaign and the type of activists I'm talking about have been making the case (read "begging") for financial support and not getting much of it. I lean towards "inept" as the explanation but I don't have any particular info/insight.

There is a good article in Politico today about Ryan's campaign which makes the point that the people he's trying to reach (simplified as Obama voters who switched to Trump) care more that he's perceived as a fighter, willing to mix it up w/ both Vance and the Democratic power structure, than about any particular substantive issue. I.e. the whole "kick ass v. kiss ass" meme/theme. I will take that as validation of the point I was trying to make in my post above that it's more about emotions than issues.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

pearlbeer wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:59 pm
jr29 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:44 pm
brettac1 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:39 pm
My understanding is that he's essentially running as some kind of anti-Democrat Democrat. I would say it speaks volumes about Ohio that JD fucking Vance is very likely to get elected as a Senator from there.
An anti-Democrat Democrat platform is A-ok with me.
IMO after this cycle, anyone over the age of 70 should be booted out of any leadership position. If the message is out of touch, we can start with the ones with mouthfuls of hard candy.
I am shocked that Biden is considering running again, although I probably shouldn't be, and I regularly shake my head at the ages of so many of the principal players from Trump to McConnell to Pelosi to certain Supreme Court Justices and on and on. It really is time for them to leave the stage. I feel like that statement can be made and supported without having to identify exactly who would replace them.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:12 am
I can't bring myself to say Trump was right, but it's pretty clear the Bush-Clinton-Bush flash deindustrialization of America sure fucked up the place.
I have said for a very long time that Trump was right about China, he just didn't have a clue what to do about it and was ultimately ineffectual and unsuccessful. His other "efforts" at reindustrialization, e.g. renegotiating NAFTA and leaving the Transpacific Partnership were jokes. The only other thing that Trump was right about was the Covid vaccine and of course most of his base didn't follow him there. Go figure.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by brettac1 »

Zip City wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:12 pm
brettac1 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:39 pm
My understanding is that he's essentially running as some kind of anti-Democrat Democrat. I would say it speaks volumes about Ohio that JD fucking Vance is very likely to get elected as a Senator from there.
Tim Ryan is on a dead sprint towards the center, and it's fucking infuriating.

My only choice for Democrat senator is a guy who runs TV ads bragging about how he agrees with Trump on trade and China.

Fuck off (Tim Ryan, not you)
The effort to try to out-Republican Republicans will always be a long-term failure. You might win an extremely close election one time but once the next wave comes along you get rinsed immediately. For example, how many ex-CIA/FBI losers will the Democrats keep trotting out? It seems like an endless supply. They win one election in Raytheon Acres or whatever and then lose the first time they face re-election. In the meantime they accomplished nothing (though I guess, what exactly *is* the Democratic platform?)

They get in office and have to immediately pivot to re-election and wind up just being conservatives until they invariably lose. Then they get hired for cable news networks where they say the Democrats have gone "too far left" as they enact 2000's Republican domestic agenda and a neocon foreign policy.
Do you ever get tired of singin' songs
Like all your pain is just another fuckin' sing along?

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brettac1
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by brettac1 »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:12 am
Zip City wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:12 pm
My only choice for Democrat senator is a guy who runs TV ads bragging about how he agrees with Trump on trade and China.
I can't bring myself to say Trump was right, but it's pretty clear the Bush-Clinton-Bush flash deindustrialization of America sure fucked up the place. If Tim Ryan has to phrase that in a way that might win him votes, more power to him. It's not like he's running for president this time.
That is essentially the case made in this Jacobin piece:
https://jacobin.com/2022/11/tim-ryan-jd ... -democrats
Do you ever get tired of singin' songs
Like all your pain is just another fuckin' sing along?

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