The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

[beantownbubba]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/15/book ... shing.html

[boyyourself]

Imagine if Biden or Pfauci or Isbell, or, anyone besides joe rogan, started touting going outside and getting fresh air. How bout Oprah?

I'm really surprised by this. You have, of course, mentioned the benefits of being outside, getting fresh air and exercising a number of times and that seemed (and seems) entirely unobjectionable and uncontroversial to me. But that seems a little different from what you're saying now. Are you suggesting that this is not a widely accepted understanding among people generally and not widely disseminated advice from health professionals? I'm not arguing the point, I'm asking because if so this would be counter to my experience and I would be both shocked and quite discombobulated if the world has changed that much without me knowing. It's not quite "no, the sun rises in the west" territory but it's not that far either.

I spent my kids' entire childhood booting their asses outside to get fresh air and exercise and even more often suggesting/pleading that they do so. I learned it from my parents, from whom I heard that what seems like every day of my life until I moved out and my parents are/were the children of immigrants who grew up in the ghetto yet they learned it from their parents who were immigrants who grew up in the old country, old style ghetto, the ones without plumbing and with mud and horseshit for sidewalks and streets. And I'm sure they heard it from their parents going back at least as far as the time when my ancestors moved from farms to more urban locations and occupations. Additionally, at least since my parents' time, we've all heard it from doctors and other healthcare providers on a somewhat regular basis. So if that's no longer standard advice or standard practice that's a real change to the world I thought I knew.

I think plenty still abide by or tell kids to go outside. But theres more opportunity than ever now to not. Video gaming is literally a culture now. Thats new. Iphones, central heat and air etc. All pretty new to society. Indoor plumbing too. I aint no model for good health, but i rarely piss inside.

And of course i am in favor of indiviual responsiblity. But i am also just recognizing how much power over their mob someone like oprah has. Honestly, i Imagine this big long story, with two different endings, starting the very moment oprah said she would never eat another hamburger. First off, good on her for cultivating a daytime tv audience.......daytime tv? Millions? Wow. Ok, that cant be good, first of all. But imagine if instead she came across some crazy new science that made her realize that shoveling processed carbs into your body would cause insulin spikes, and then she went oh shit, insulin is a GROWTH hormone, then she stands up on her couch and exclaims she will never eat another carb!!!!!
Then she goes, wait what,???? Folks this just in......vitamin D is not a vitamin.....its a hormone!!! Holy shit my hormones must be comoletely out of whack!!!!
Then she starts getting sun and stops spiking insulin, loses the weight for good, which then inspires millions to do the same. A massive wave of low inflammation sweeps the nation, all because of oprah. Sounds about as crazy as her having the power to drop the bottom out the cattle market, which actually happened.
Or like how we all bought air jordans because thats what mike wore.

We obviously cant re write reality. But we can criticize history and make observations. That seems like a better approach to wellness than trying to re write history.

[boyyourself]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/15/book ... shing.html

Gross. I recently saw that a friend was reading a book called "how to be an anti racist" my first thought was, what the hell does that even mean. Luckily its a good enough friend i knew she would respectfully accept some ribbing from me about it. So i said, thats intersting that the most wealthy, affluent, liberal, beautifil white woman i know,
Who works in social services i know is reading a book on how to be anti racist. How bout a book on how to be a human. Dont remember if i said all that, its the sentiment that counts.

Because of all this, the actual racists get to shield themselves with the almighty. "everything is racist now" .....
word cluster.

[boyyourself]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/15/book ... shing.html

As soon as i saw this i immediately thought of the song My Life by The Game. Not sure why. Was gonna post a video of it, i think its pertinant and worth sharing, plus i just love that song so much, but i read the lyrics and they are cool to read imo.


And I'm grindin' til I'm attacked
They say "You ain't grindin' til you tired"
So I'm grindin' with my eyes wide
Looking to find, a way through the day
A light, for the night
Dear Lord, you've done took so many of my people but I'm just wonderin' why
You haven't taken my life?
Like what the hell am I doing right?
My Life
Take me away from the hood like a state penitentiary
Take me away from the hood in the casket or a Bentley
Take me away
Like I overdosed on cocaine
Or take me away like a bullet from Kurt Cobain
Suicide (suicide, suicide)
I'm from a Windy City, like "Do or Die"
From a block close to where Biggie was crucified
That was Brooklyn's Jesus
Shot for no fuckin' reason
And you wonder why Kanye wears Jesus pieces?
Cause that's Jesus people
And The Game, he's the equal
Hated on so much, "The Passion of Christ" need a sequel
Yeah, like Roc-a-fella needed Sigel
Like I needed my father, but he needed a needle
I need some meditation, so I can leave my people
They askin' "Why?" Why did John Lennon leave The Beatles?
And why every hood nigga feed off evil?
Answer my question before this bullet leave this Desert Eagle
And I'm grindin' til I'm attacked
They say "You ain't grindin' til you tired"
So I'm grindin' with my eyes wide
Looking to find, a way through the day
A light, for the night
Dear Lord, you've done took so many of my people but I'm just wonderin' why
You haven't taken my life?
Like what the hell am I doing right?
My Life
We are not the same, I am a Martian
So approach my Phantom doors with caution
You see them 24's spinnin' I earned them
And I ain't no preacher but here's my Erick Sermon
So eat this black music and tell me how it taste now
And fuck Jesse Jackson cause it ain't about race now
Sometimes I think about my life, with my face down
Then I see my sons and put on that Kanye smile
Damn, I know his momma proud
And since you helped me sell my +Dream+ we can share my momma now
And like M.J.B.: "No More Drama" now
Living the "Good Life", me and Common on common ground
I spit crack, and niggas could drive it out of town
Got a Chris Paul mind state, I'm never out of bounds
My life used to be empty like a Glock without a round
Now my life full, like a chopper with a thousand rounds
And I'm grindin' til I'm attacked
They say "You ain't grindin' til you tired"
So I'm grindin' with my eyes wide
Looking to find, a way through the day
A light, for the night
Dear Lord, you've done took so many of my people but I'm just wonderin' why
You haven't taken my life?
Like what the hell am I doing right?
My Life
Walk through the gates of Hell, see my Impala parked in front
With the high beams on, me and the Devil share chronic blunts
Listening to the "Chronic" album, playing backwards
Shootin' at pictures of Don Imus for target practice
My mind fucked up, so I cover it with a Raider hood
I'm from the city that made you motherfuckers afraid of Suge
Made my grandmother pray for good
And never made her happy, when I bet that new Mercedes could
Ain't no bars, but niggas can't escape the hood
They took so many of my niggas, that I should hate the hood
But it's real niggas like me, that make the hood
Ridin' slow in that Phantom just the way I should
With the top back
In my Sox hat
I'm paid in full, the nigga Alpo couldn't stop that
Even if they brought the nigga 'Pac back
I'd still keep this motherfucker cocked back
And I'm grindin' til I'm attacked
They say "You ain't grindin' til you tired"
So I'm grindin' with my eyes wide
Looking to find, a way through the day
A light, for the night
Dear Lord, you've done took so many of my people but I'm just wonderin' why
You haven't taken my life?
Like what the hell am I doing right?
My Life

[Cole Younger]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/15/book ... shing.html

As soon as i saw this i immediately thought of the song My Life by The Game. Not sure why. Was gonna post a video of it, i think its pertinant and worth sharing, plus i just love that song so much, but i read the lyrics and they are cool to read imo.


And I'm grindin' til I'm attacked
They say "You ain't grindin' til you tired"
So I'm grindin' with my eyes wide
Looking to find, a way through the day
A light, for the night
Dear Lord, you've done took so many of my people but I'm just wonderin' why
You haven't taken my life?
Like what the hell am I doing right?
My Life
Take me away from the hood like a state penitentiary
Take me away from the hood in the casket or a Bentley
Take me away
Like I overdosed on cocaine
Or take me away like a bullet from Kurt Cobain
Suicide (suicide, suicide)
I'm from a Windy City, like "Do or Die"
From a block close to where Biggie was crucified
That was Brooklyn's Jesus
Shot for no fuckin' reason
And you wonder why Kanye wears Jesus pieces?
Cause that's Jesus people
And The Game, he's the equal
Hated on so much, "The Passion of Christ" need a sequel
Yeah, like Roc-a-fella needed Sigel
Like I needed my father, but he needed a needle
I need some meditation, so I can leave my people
They askin' "Why?" Why did John Lennon leave The Beatles?
And why every hood nigga feed off evil?
Answer my question before this bullet leave this Desert Eagle
And I'm grindin' til I'm attacked
They say "You ain't grindin' til you tired"
So I'm grindin' with my eyes wide
Looking to find, a way through the day
A light, for the night
Dear Lord, you've done took so many of my people but I'm just wonderin' why
You haven't taken my life?
Like what the hell am I doing right?
My Life
We are not the same, I am a Martian
So approach my Phantom doors with caution
You see them 24's spinnin' I earned them
And I ain't no preacher but here's my Erick Sermon
So eat this black music and tell me how it taste now
And fuck Jesse Jackson cause it ain't about race now
Sometimes I think about my life, with my face down
Then I see my sons and put on that Kanye smile
Damn, I know his momma proud
And since you helped me sell my +Dream+ we can share my momma now
And like M.J.B.: "No More Drama" now
Living the "Good Life", me and Common on common ground
I spit crack, and niggas could drive it out of town
Got a Chris Paul mind state, I'm never out of bounds
My life used to be empty like a Glock without a round
Now my life full, like a chopper with a thousand rounds
And I'm grindin' til I'm attacked
They say "You ain't grindin' til you tired"
So I'm grindin' with my eyes wide
Looking to find, a way through the day
A light, for the night
Dear Lord, you've done took so many of my people but I'm just wonderin' why
You haven't taken my life?
Like what the hell am I doing right?
My Life
Walk through the gates of Hell, see my Impala parked in front
With the high beams on, me and the Devil share chronic blunts
Listening to the "Chronic" album, playing backwards
Shootin' at pictures of Don Imus for target practice
My mind fucked up, so I cover it with a Raider hood
I'm from the city that made you motherfuckers afraid of Suge
Made my grandmother pray for good
And never made her happy, when I bet that new Mercedes could
Ain't no bars, but niggas can't escape the hood
They took so many of my niggas, that I should hate the hood
But it's real niggas like me, that make the hood
Ridin' slow in that Phantom just the way I should
With the top back
In my Sox hat
I'm paid in full, the nigga Alpo couldn't stop that
Even if they brought the nigga 'Pac back
I'd still keep this motherfucker cocked back
And I'm grindin' til I'm attacked
They say "You ain't grindin' til you tired"
So I'm grindin' with my eyes wide
Looking to find, a way through the day
A light, for the night
Dear Lord, you've done took so many of my people but I'm just wonderin' why
You haven't taken my life?
Like what the hell am I doing right?
My Life

Nice. boyyourself and Southern conservative Cole are two of the only people on this board that can reference rap songs. I love it.

[Zip City]

Speaking of censorship...

[LBRod]

Speaking of censorship...

Do you really want to compare taking a page off of your own website to having a video taken down by Youtube?

Trump was right to want to get us out of there earlier, but the bureaucrats would not let that happen.
No one should be surprised that Republicans are now trying to gain political advantage by dumping on
Biden for the way things predictably ended.

[beantownbubba]

i am also just recognizing how much power over their mob someone like oprah has.

OK. Gotcha. I know that there are some programs along these lines in place usually featuring famous athletes. I think the NFL calls theirs "Play 60" or something close to that, and there are others as well. But no doubt, Oprah is Oprah.

[beantownbubba]

Speaking of censorship...

Do you really want to compare taking a page off of your own website to having a video taken down by Youtube?

Trump was right to want to get us out of there earlier, but the bureaucrats would not let that happen.
No one should be surprised that Republicans are now trying to gain political advantage by dumping on
Biden for the way things predictably ended.

I agree with Rod re what I see as a false, or very weak, comparison, but what really gets me is the complete collapse of patriotism, at least as I understand the term. Playing this tragedy and disaster for political advantage and phrasing it in the usual terms of modern politics as usual is just plain disgusting. Think of the American lives lost and ruined and the consequent effects on so many families, think of the Afghan lives lost and ruined and the consequent effects on so many families, towns and villages, think of the swaths of Afghanistan destroyed over the years, think of the "collateral damage," think of the complete failure of this war as a method of "diplomacy by other means," think of the hit to American authority and prestige (especially on top of the last 4 years), think of the billions and zillions of dollars devoted to this effort that our children's chlidren will be paying for. And now please explain to me what about this makes it a partisan issue that either side can or should use for political advantage. I think it says more about the current state of this country and the pathetic lack of character of our so called leaders than all the culture wars, divisiveness over Trump, etc, etc,because this says to me there simply is no hope of any kind of peaceful reconciliation and no hope of forming a stable governing coalition that can actually govern this country for the benefit of its citizens. It' is symptomatic of a completely warped view of reality, a distortion of priorities, a denial of truths across the political spectrum and totally fucked.

[Cole Younger]

Speaking of censorship...

Do you really want to compare taking a page off of your own website to having a video taken down by Youtube?

Trump was right to want to get us out of there earlier, but the bureaucrats would not let that happen.
No one should be surprised that Republicans are now trying to gain political advantage by dumping on
Biden for the way things predictably ended.

I agree with Rod re what I see as a false, or very weak, comparison, but what really gets me is the complete collapse of patriotism, at least as I understand the term. Playing this tragedy and disaster for political advantage and phrasing it in the usual terms of modern politics as usual is just plain disgusting. Think of the American lives lost and ruined and the consequent effects on so many families, think of the Afghan lives lost and ruined and the consequent effects on so many families, towns and villages, think of the swaths of Afghanistan destroyed over the years, think of the "collateral damage," think of the complete failure of this war as a method of "diplomacy by other means," think of the hit to American authority and prestige (especially on top of the last 4 years), think of the billions and zillions of dollars devoted to this effort that our children's chlidren will be paying for. And now please explain to me what about this makes it a partisan issue that either side can or should use for political advantage. I think it says more about the current state of this country and the pathetic lack of character of our so called leaders than all the culture wars, divisiveness over Trump, etc, etc,because this says to me there simply is no hope of any kind of peaceful reconciliation and no hope of forming a stable governing coalition that can actually govern this country for the benefit of its citizens. It' is symptomatic of a completely warped view of reality, a distortion of priorities, a denial of truths across the political spectrum and totally fucked.

Nobody needs to post another word about this because the above post can not be topped. Truth!

[Zip City]

Censorship was the wrong word

Let’s go with “erasing recent history”

[305 Engine]

Speaking of censorship...

Do you really want to compare taking a page off of your own website to having a video taken down by Youtube?

Trump was right to want to get us out of there earlier, but the bureaucrats would not let that happen.
No one should be surprised that Republicans are now trying to gain political advantage by dumping on
Biden for the way things predictably ended.

It's a mistake to pin this disaster on Trump. It's his plan but Biden implemented it. This is on Biden. It's fair to blame him.

I don't think that this outcome was inevitable. The cost of maintaining the status quo was not large when put next to the unfolding crisis. This will have long term consequences for the west. It strengthens the hand of Iran, China and Russia. It makes it very difficult for anyone to trust the west in future.

Should Afghanistan have been invaded in the first place? Debateable. I lean towards "yes". It was certainly more logical than Iraq. But like Iraq they clearly had never really thought through what to do once getting there.

[Swamp]

Softer words or real history?
Kinda reminds me of the PLM flag sticker next to a trump sticker and Jan 6.

[beantownbubba]

Speaking of softening language "collateral damage" has got to be one of the all-time most offensive examples. It allows us to turn schools, hospitals, babies, grandmas and more into abstractions so that we can sleep at night and go on pretending to ourselves that "American exceptionalism" lives and is not a cruel joke to much of the world.

[beantownbubba]

Worth a couple of minutes of your time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/15/opin ... 029039208a

[John A Arkansawyer]

After Sunday It’s Even More Clear Biden Was Right

...The more I see the more I’m convinced this was the right decision – both what I see on the ground in Afghanistan and perhaps even more the reaction here in the United States.

It is crystal clear that the Afghan national army and really the Afghan state was an illusion. It could not survive first contact with a post-US military reality. As is so often the case in life – with bad investments, bad relationships – what we were doing there was staying to delay our reckoning with the consequences of the reality of the situation.

That’s a bad idea.

But as I’ve said in other posts over the last two days, we knew this part. What has been deeply revealing to me is the American response. And here I mean to say the most prominent media and political voices. It’s true this is quicker than I’d figured – not that I’d given the precise timing a lot of thought. And it seems to be quicker than the White House figured. But by a month? Three months? Does that matter? I don’t see why. If anything, given the outcome, quicker is better – since a protracted fall is necessarily a bloodier fall. But what the reaction has demonstrated to me is the sheer depth of denial. The inability to accept the reality of the situation. And thus the excuse making...

[305 Engine]

After Sunday It’s Even More Clear Biden Was Right

...The more I see the more I’m convinced this was the right decision – both what I see on the ground in Afghanistan and perhaps even more the reaction here in the United States.

It is crystal clear that the Afghan national army and really the Afghan state was an illusion. It could not survive first contact with a post-US military reality. As is so often the case in life – with bad investments, bad relationships – what we were doing there was staying to delay our reckoning with the consequences of the reality of the situation.

That’s a bad idea.

But as I’ve said in other posts over the last two days, we knew this part. What has been deeply revealing to me is the American response. And here I mean to say the most prominent media and political voices. It’s true this is quicker than I’d figured – not that I’d given the precise timing a lot of thought. And it seems to be quicker than the White House figured. But by a month? Three months? Does that matter? I don’t see why. If anything, given the outcome, quicker is better – since a protracted fall is necessarily a bloodier fall. But what the reaction has demonstrated to me is the sheer depth of denial. The inability to accept the reality of the situation. And thus the excuse making...

" I don’t see why. If anything, given the outcome, quicker is better – since a protracted fall is necessarily a bloodier fall."

If the assumption here is that after this quick dose of chaos, Afghanistan returns to stability albeit under the Taliban then I think that's naive. An ongoing civil war is perfectly possible. We won't suddenly stop hearing about Afghanistan.

[boyyourself]

Softer words or real history?
Kinda reminds me of the PLM flag sticker next to a trump sticker and Jan 6.

PLM?

[boyyourself]

Censorship was the wrong word

Let’s go with “erasing recent history”

Right. And you have kept track, you know exactly what they said, hell you can screen shot now, and now you are pointing out their attempt at treating your conscience like an etch o sketch. And you dont like it. Good on ya..

The cdc started shifting their mask guidelines right when covid hit. I watched it. I waxed about it on some other thread.....it was happening at the same time pfauci said we didnt need them (then he said we did, so his ass is covered)
Lies are ok as long as youre the one in charge of everyones "safety" proving you should have never cast a safety net over everone, for their own good. Ask native americans how it went for them......yall need to just surrender and move to the reservation.......its the only way "we" can "protect" you. They did not all comply, some chose freedom over safety. Some chose to fight to death instead of being confined onto unproductive land like a zoo animal. Good on em.
And, tell the truth. The whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

[boyyourself]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/15/book ... shing.html

As soon as i saw this i immediately thought of the song My Life by The Game. Not sure why. Was gonna post a video of it, i think its pertinant and worth sharing, plus i just love that song so much, but i read the lyrics and they are cool to read imo.


And I'm grindin' til I'm attacked
They say "You ain't grindin' til you tired"
So I'm grindin' with my eyes wide
Looking to find, a way through the day
A light, for the night
Dear Lord, you've done took so many of my people but I'm just wonderin' why
You haven't taken my life?
Like what the hell am I doing right?
My Life
Take me away from the hood like a state penitentiary
Take me away from the hood in the casket or a Bentley
Take me away
Like I overdosed on cocaine
Or take me away like a bullet from Kurt Cobain
Suicide (suicide, suicide)
I'm from a Windy City, like "Do or Die"
From a block close to where Biggie was crucified
That was Brooklyn's Jesus
Shot for no fuckin' reason
And you wonder why Kanye wears Jesus pieces?
Cause that's Jesus people
And The Game, he's the equal
Hated on so much, "The Passion of Christ" need a sequel
Yeah, like Roc-a-fella needed Sigel
Like I needed my father, but he needed a needle
I need some meditation, so I can leave my people
They askin' "Why?" Why did John Lennon leave The Beatles?
And why every hood nigga feed off evil?
Answer my question before this bullet leave this Desert Eagle
And I'm grindin' til I'm attacked
They say "You ain't grindin' til you tired"
So I'm grindin' with my eyes wide
Looking to find, a way through the day
A light, for the night
Dear Lord, you've done took so many of my people but I'm just wonderin' why
You haven't taken my life?
Like what the hell am I doing right?
My Life
We are not the same, I am a Martian
So approach my Phantom doors with caution
You see them 24's spinnin' I earned them
And I ain't no preacher but here's my Erick Sermon
So eat this black music and tell me how it taste now
And fuck Jesse Jackson cause it ain't about race now
Sometimes I think about my life, with my face down
Then I see my sons and put on that Kanye smile
Damn, I know his momma proud
And since you helped me sell my +Dream+ we can share my momma now
And like M.J.B.: "No More Drama" now
Living the "Good Life", me and Common on common ground
I spit crack, and niggas could drive it out of town
Got a Chris Paul mind state, I'm never out of bounds
My life used to be empty like a Glock without a round
Now my life full, like a chopper with a thousand rounds
And I'm grindin' til I'm attacked
They say "You ain't grindin' til you tired"
So I'm grindin' with my eyes wide
Looking to find, a way through the day
A light, for the night
Dear Lord, you've done took so many of my people but I'm just wonderin' why
You haven't taken my life?
Like what the hell am I doing right?
My Life
Walk through the gates of Hell, see my Impala parked in front
With the high beams on, me and the Devil share chronic blunts
Listening to the "Chronic" album, playing backwards
Shootin' at pictures of Don Imus for target practice
My mind fucked up, so I cover it with a Raider hood
I'm from the city that made you motherfuckers afraid of Suge
Made my grandmother pray for good
And never made her happy, when I bet that new Mercedes could
Ain't no bars, but niggas can't escape the hood
They took so many of my niggas, that I should hate the hood
But it's real niggas like me, that make the hood
Ridin' slow in that Phantom just the way I should
With the top back
In my Sox hat
I'm paid in full, the nigga Alpo couldn't stop that
Even if they brought the nigga 'Pac back
I'd still keep this motherfucker cocked back
And I'm grindin' til I'm attacked
They say "You ain't grindin' til you tired"
So I'm grindin' with my eyes wide
Looking to find, a way through the day
A light, for the night
Dear Lord, you've done took so many of my people but I'm just wonderin' why
You haven't taken my life?
Like what the hell am I doing right?
My Life

Nice. boyyourself and Southern conservative Cole are two of the only people on this board that can reference rap songs. I love it.

Yes its a rap passport. Can i flash it to get into some club that the normies cant get into?

[John A Arkansawyer]

And, tell the truth. The whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

That's impossible. The truth and nothing but the truth, sure. The whole truth? That's what gets people into trouble, trying to tell the whole truth. It's an impossible standard to meet. There's always choice in what true thing to leave in and what true thing to leave out.

[John A Arkansawyer]

An ongoing civil war is perfectly possible.

I'm not sure where the other side is going to come from tomorrow, if there wasn't anyone to stand their ground yesterday.

We won't suddenly stop hearing about Afghanistan.

Quite true.

[Jonicont]

pfauci .

Why do you put a p at the beginning of his last name

[LBRod]

pfauci .

Why do you put a p at the beginning of his last name

Because it's pfun?

[Jonicont]

pfauci .

Why do you put a p at the beginning of his last name

Because it's pfun?

You’re such a knucklehead

[boyyourself]

pfauci .

Why do you put a p at the beginning of his last name

Because it's pfun?

What he said. And i have a suspicion he is Pfinancially benefitting from this mess, not 15 billion like pfizer but still. And for the fact that he has been advocating for social distancing for 40 years, for that alone, pfuck him.
Maybe its just me, but i dont think so, but, i prefer open arms. Not a hand in the face. He reminds me of ted cruz, honestly, only without all the humility you see from cruz. Thats how humble pfauci is imo. In other words, i dont repect him.

[305 Engine]

An ongoing civil war is perfectly possible.

I'm not sure where the other side is going to come from tomorrow, if there wasn't anyone to stand their ground yesterday.

The Taliban have never had full control and certainly not full support across Afghanistan. They've made progress partially by making deals with local warlords across the country. But that can easily change.

It's a diverse country, scattered with weapons, with a history of internal conflict and the government just collapsed. There will be more fighting.

[John A Arkansawyer]

An ongoing civil war is perfectly possible.

I'm not sure where the other side is going to come from tomorrow, if there wasn't anyone to stand their ground yesterday.

The Taliban have never had full control and certainly not full support across Afghanistan. They've made progress partially by making deals with local warlords across the country. But that can easily change.

It's a diverse country, scattered with weapons, with a history of internal conflict and the government just collapsed. There will be more fighting.

That's reasonable.

[John A Arkansawyer]

Catching Up on the Fall of the Afghan Government

...For all the chaos and horror, the rapidity of the collapse not only of the Afghan military but the Afghan state itself made me even more convinced the decision to leave was correct and more impressed that Biden had the courage to do it...

I’ve been struck in reading news commentary over the last 48 hours how much the senior/commentatorish foreign policy reporters for The New York Times are wedded to what we might call a Davos/CFR consensus on foreign policy questions. It’s as much the Post as the Times and applies to that whole milieu. I first started thinking about this when I saw this piece by Steven Erlanger two days ago. All filled with chin-scratching comments about the loss “credibility,” American retreat from the world, etc. You could read the piece and have little sense that things weren’t going great in Afghanistan or that really any of the last 20 years had even happened...

In a sense, who can be surprised? You might say this kind of outlook is almost a cliche from the Times. But again, very revealing. Elite, DC-based political journalism is deeply wedded to a pro-war, pro-perpetual counter-insurgency mindset and set of priorities. There are many reasons for this and in the coming days and weeks it’s worth considering why...

The other thing he posted that moved me, a lot, was this Twitter thread from Will Bunch. I'm just going to retype it:

A big thing I see driving the Afghanistan conversation that no one is talking about is something I've seen quite often in 40 years in journalism: People's personal relationships--a.k.a., access journalism--matters more than looking at the big picture. There's a large foreign policy community who worship "objectivity" 99% of the time--for whom Afghanistan is personal. They have human ties there, with no greater priority--human nature, understandable--than keeping their friends alive. It's like when you have a family member in the hospital--suddenly you're not on the soapbox about the outrageous cost of US healthcare*. These folks never could support leaving Afghanistan to the inevitable, and I understand why. Thus it's on the rest of us without personal ties to point out the bigger picture: That a government that collapses in days without America propping them up wasn't worth $2.2 trillion and thousands of lives. Biden was right to leave but I think we can all agree Biden should have seen how fast the end would come and have been smarter and faster about evacuating our allies. That needs to be the focus now. We're way behind the 8-ball, but in the best world we save our Afghan allies yet also be honest with ourselves, that US involvement in Afghanistan was the height of wasteful, imperial folly, that our role had to end some time and that time was always going to be ugly.

It's so important to go places and meet people.

*I believe he means not on the soapbox about cutting care to cut costs.

[Jonicont]

pfizer

Shouldn’t you leave the p off of this one