The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

Every American gets to claim being the real America. Every American is a real American. Even the asshole, the Anus-Americans. They may suck; they're still real Americans.

Sounds nice, but you know and I know that various groups of people like to claim the mantle of "Real American" at the exclusion of all others.

So much economic anxiety

[Tequila Cowboy]

I'll be honest (and maybe I'm the problem), but I'm growing weary and borderline resentful of this "liberals refuse to understand real America" train of thought. Not once has anyone questioned why working class America refuses to understand the other side of the debate. Liberals are the bad guys for "refusing" to address the needs of middle America (and I agree they've done a poor job of messaging), but this entire storyline is one-sided as hell

That's really fucking stupid. Those people you look down on are the real America, just like you are, and the lack of comprehension and empathy runs every which way but loose. It is most certainly not some some goddam one way street. Everybody's storyline is one-sided. That's why it's their storyline. There are some actual bad actors involved, but they aren't some sad formerly middle-class fuckers whose kids don't have much of a future ahead of them.

Honestly John I don't think Zip's point is stupid at all. It may not be the political moment to have that discussion but it's a valid concern. I also don't think these people are looked down at as much as a lot of current social commentary would have you believe. That's not to say that it's not a factor because it certainly is but some of the wounds are self inflicted when you have people in the damn north, not to even mention the south, waving confederate flags and talking about the diminishing rights of white people. If you don't think these people look down on liberals of their own socio economic class you're kidding yourself. I've talked politics in restaurants with my wife and have had people at neighboring tables call us libtards and the like and that's happened more than once. Do those folks get a pass in not being tolerant of us?

Listen I get it, there are people that have absolutely been disenfranchised by the system and Democrats and liberals do bear some blame but the GOP and the conservative movement likely bears more of it and they end up the heroes and saviors of the piece mainly because of social issues even while they fuck these people economically. I spent a lot of my life struggling financially and I understand the frustration that nothing is being done for you. I get it, but it doesn't mean that people have to cater to you and while you get to dismiss other people, again many of them no better off than you, for having different ideas. It does go both ways.

[John A Arkansawyer]

I'll be honest (and maybe I'm the problem), but I'm growing weary and borderline resentful of this "liberals refuse to understand real America" train of thought. Not once has anyone questioned why working class America refuses to understand the other side of the debate. Liberals are the bad guys for "refusing" to address the needs of middle America (and I agree they've done a poor job of messaging), but this entire storyline is one-sided as hell

That's really fucking stupid. Those people you look down on are the real America, just like you are, and the lack of comprehension and empathy runs every which way but loose. It is most certainly not some some goddam one way street. Everybody's storyline is one-sided. That's why it's their storyline. There are some actual bad actors involved, but they aren't some sad formerly middle-class fuckers whose kids don't have much of a future ahead of them.

Honestly John I don't think Zip's point is stupid at all. It may not be the political moment to have that discussion but it's a valid concern. I also don't think these people are looked down at as much as a lot of current social commentary would have you believe. That's not to say that it's not a factor because it certainly is but some of the wounds are self inflicted when you have people in the damn north, not to even mention the south, waving confederate flags and talking about the diminishing rights of white people. If you don't think these people look down on liberals of their own socio economic class you're kidding yourself. I've talked politics in restaurants with my wife and have had people at neighboring tables call us libtards and the like and that's happened more than once. Do those folks get a pass in not being tolerant of us?

Listen I get it, there are people that have absolutely been disenfranchised by the system and Democrats and liberals do bear some blame but the GOP and the conservative movement likely bears more of it and they end up the heroes and saviors of the piece mainly because of social issues even while they fuck these people economically. I spent a lot of my life struggling financially and I understand the frustration that nothing is being done for you. I get it, but it doesn't mean that people have to cater to you and while you get to dismiss other people, again many of them no better off than you, for having different ideas. It does go both ways.

There's truth in what you both say, but the last thirty years or so has been Democrats caving on actual policy but talking tough about who doesn't get to say what and what's acceptable and how many of us live in Dumbfuckistan. The really foul song I'll probably finish someday has this couplet following each vile act:

Republican policy craves it
Democrat cowards enable it

It really is the dance of Tweedledum and Tweedlescum, or maybe Tweedledum and Tweedledumber. My one hope is that with the Democratic Party (at least in Arkansas) being so far down and out is that we might have a chance to remake it into something more worthwhile. It's not worth the price of getting here--we haven't even begun to pay the price of electing Trump--but that bill can't be dodged any longer. It has come due. There are chickens roosting everywhere and shitting on everything. If we're going to have to wring those fuckers' necks for dinner, I'm going to fight for a breast and a drumstick and not settle for a back and a wing.

This has been today's installment of "Mixed Metaphors are like Mixed Drinks". I'm not sure how they're similar, but it sounds good.

[pearlbeer]

I'll be honest (and maybe I'm the problem), but I'm growing weary and borderline resentful of this "liberals refuse to understand real America" train of thought. Not once has anyone questioned why working class America refuses to understand the other side of the debate. Liberals are the bad guys for "refusing" to address the needs of middle America (and I agree they've done a poor job of messaging), but this entire storyline is one-sided as hell

That's really fucking stupid. Those people you look down on are the real America, just like you are, and the lack of comprehension and empathy runs every which way but loose. It is most certainly not some some goddam one way street. Everybody's storyline is one-sided. That's why it's their storyline. There are some actual bad actors involved, but they aren't some sad formerly middle-class fuckers whose kids don't have much of a future ahead of them.

Honestly John I don't think Zip's point is stupid at all. It may not be the political moment to have that discussion but it's a valid concern. I also don't think these people are looked down at as much as a lot of current social commentary would have you believe. That's not to say that it's not a factor because it certainly is but some of the wounds are self inflicted when you have people in the damn north, not to even mention the south, waving confederate flags and talking about the diminishing rights of white people. If you don't think these people look down on liberals of their own socio economic class you're kidding yourself. I've talked politics in restaurants with my wife and have had people at neighboring tables call us libtards and the like and that's happened more than once. Do those folks get a pass in not being tolerant of us?

Listen I get it, there are people that have absolutely been disenfranchised by the system and Democrats and liberals do bear some blame but the GOP and the conservative movement likely bears more of it and they end up the heroes and saviors of the piece mainly because of social issues even while they fuck these people economically. I spent a lot of my life struggling financially and I understand the frustration that nothing is being done for you. I get it, but it doesn't mean that people have to cater to you and while you get to dismiss other people, again many of them no better off than you, for having different ideas. It does go both ways.

The point I suppose I always come back to is: Yes, rural America has been marginalized. Yes, the Democrats share in the blame. Yes, Democrats have done a poor job reaching out to these people. Yes, our message isn't translating.....etc...BUT

This isn't a new phenomenon. Since the early 80s and the election of Regan, the left has been warning these people of the impact of their decisions. We've been warning about factory jobs vanishing. We've been warning about economic inequality. We've warned about trickle-down economics. We've been warning that deregulated corporations won't replace government-funded programs.

I like to point to the following evidence. Sadly, it looks like it will take continued (and likely increased) pain to wake up rural voters. Eventually, they will realize that the con-men they are electing have not delivered on their promises. Eventually, they will understand that the only people that can save them are themselves...as in 'we the people'. These folks have a deep distrust of Government, and it is likely their only, or at least best, solution.

Here's my evidence. We've been warning you for a long time...

Born in the USA was released in 1984
Roger & Me was released in 1989

...don't tell me we have not reached out from a place of empathy. I don't think there is much use in saying 'I told you so', but, on the other hand, saying the left does not understand or has failed to reach out to rural communities is bullshit.

[LBRod]

I find it annoying that one group of Americans feel they need to be catered to unconditionally or else

[Zip City]

I really don't know what these working class voters want to hear from politicians. That their jobs are coming back? I mean, Trump lied about that and it worked, so I guess so? They don't want to hear the truth, that much is clear

[John A Arkansawyer]

the left has been warning these people of the impact of their decisions. We've been warning about factory jobs vanishing. We've been warning about economic inequality. We've warned about trickle-down economics. We've been warning that deregulated corporations won't replace government-funded programs.

I really don't know what these working class voters want to hear from politicians. That their jobs are coming back? I mean, Trump lied about that and it worked, so I guess so? They don't want to hear the truth, that much is clear

What they haven't been told for quite some time now is that it's not their decisions that matter. It is the decisions of the FRFs (Fat Rich Fuckers) that run the society for their own profit that matter. That's the truth. People usually know when they're being bullshitted and people usually have some idea what the truth really is. You show me the Democratic politician from the last thirty years who had a plan for clawing back some of what the FRFs have gouged out of people. There's Paul Wellstone and there's Bernie Sanders. That's about it on a national level.

What we've gotten from the Democratic Party since at least the Clinton era is pablum. People rightfully reject that as ineffective. Till there's an actual plan, one that offers some hope of winning, you aren't going to get people to take risks and bet on a better world. They'll take crumbs from Trump instead.

[LBRod]

I really don't know what these working class voters want to hear from politicians.

How about "live your own lives free from governmental interference"?

[Zip City]

I really don't know what these working class voters want to hear from politicians.

How about "live your own lives free from governmental interference"?

I don't think they've thought that particular train of thought all the way through

[pearlbeer]

I don't think they've thought that particular train of thought all the way through

When they do, they will understand this:

[Smitty]

He then said, “I need loyalty.” I replied, “You will always get honesty from me.” He paused and then said, “That’s what I want, honest loyalty.”

[Cole Younger]

It's funny what pushes people's buttons. Nobody could understand why I was bugged by "the resistance" but "real America" is a craw sticker.

[Cole Younger]

I find it annoying that one group of Americans feel they need to be catered to unconditionally or else

This made me spit Coke all over myself. We don't understand why some group feels the need to be catered to? Do you even liberal, bro? . Welcome to my world, Zip.

[Zip City]

I'm not sure I'm getting you

[Cole Younger]

I'm not sure I'm getting you

There is no way you arent getting me. Is there?

[Zip City]

I'm not sure I'm getting you

There is no way you arent getting me. Is there?

I'm not saying it's less annoying when it's the mega rich who are the ones being catered to

[Cole Younger]

I'm not sure I'm getting you

There is no way you arent getting me. Is there?

I'm not saying it's less annoying when it's the mega rich who are the ones being catered to

I was thinking more along the lines of catering to certain groups because they have been deemed as special is kind of all the Democrats do.

[Zip City]

When those are groups that aren't given an equal playing field, sure

[Cole Younger]

the left has been warning these people of the impact of their decisions. We've been warning about factory jobs vanishing. We've been warning about economic inequality. We've warned about trickle-down economics. We've been warning that deregulated corporations won't replace government-funded programs.

I really don't know what these working class voters want to hear from politicians. That their jobs are coming back? I mean, Trump lied about that and it worked, so I guess so? They don't want to hear the truth, that much is clear

What they haven't been told for quite some time now is that it's not their decisions that matter. It is the decisions of the FRFs (Fat Rich Fuckers) that run the society for their own profit that matter. That's the truth. People usually know when they're being bullshitted and people usually have some idea what the truth really is. You show me the Democratic politician from the last thirty years who had a plan for clawing back some of what the FRFs have gouged out of people. There's Paul Wellstone and there's Bernie Sanders. That's about it on a national level.

What we've gotten from the Democratic Party since at least the Clinton era is pablum. People rightfully reject that as ineffective. Till there's an actual plan, one that offers some hope of winning, you aren't going to get people to take risks and bet on a better world. They'll take crumbs from Trump instead.

Well said my friend. These people are the butt of liberal Democrat jokes except when they are being g romanticized about in a song or a book. Duality, anyone?

It's true that some of the wounds are self inflicted. But it's also true that, hate it or not, even if you (not you as in John A but universal you) think the economic message of the Democratic party is more in line with these peoples' self interests, that gets wiped out by a lot of the Democratic party 's social message. That's the cold hard truth. And calling them stupid and leveling accusations of a plurality of isms just makes it easier for them to see the Democrats as a bunch of smug elitists who think they know what is best for everybody.

[Cole Younger]

When those are groups that aren't given an equal playing field, sure

An equal playing field would be fine. Facilitating or demanding things like using g made up words for people and "checking your white privilege" and a host of other ideas that just don't make sense to a lot people is another.

You dont mind groups being catered to. You just want the ones you like to receive the catering and the ones you don't to shut up.

[Zip City]

the left has been warning these people of the impact of their decisions. We've been warning about factory jobs vanishing. We've been warning about economic inequality. We've warned about trickle-down economics. We've been warning that deregulated corporations won't replace government-funded programs.

I really don't know what these working class voters want to hear from politicians. That their jobs are coming back? I mean, Trump lied about that and it worked, so I guess so? They don't want to hear the truth, that much is clear

What they haven't been told for quite some time now is that it's not their decisions that matter. It is the decisions of the FRFs (Fat Rich Fuckers) that run the society for their own profit that matter. That's the truth. People usually know when they're being bullshitted and people usually have some idea what the truth really is. You show me the Democratic politician from the last thirty years who had a plan for clawing back some of what the FRFs have gouged out of people. There's Paul Wellstone and there's Bernie Sanders. That's about it on a national level.

What we've gotten from the Democratic Party since at least the Clinton era is pablum. People rightfully reject that as ineffective. Till there's an actual plan, one that offers some hope of winning, you aren't going to get people to take risks and bet on a better world. They'll take crumbs from Trump instead.

Well said my friend. These people are the butt of liberal Democrat jokes except when they are being g romanticized about in a song or a book. Duality, anyone?

It's true that some of the wounds are self inflicted. But it's also true that, hate it or not, even if you (not you as in John A but universal you) think the economic message of the Democratic party is more in line with these peoples' self interests, that gets wiped out by a lot of the Democratic party 's social message. That's the cold hard truth. And calling them stupid and leveling accusations of a plurality of isms just makes it easier for them to see the Democrats as a bunch of smug elitists who think they know what is best for everybody.

Butt of Democrat jokes? Ok

[Cole Younger]

You realize you just proved my point, right?

[Smitty]

When those are groups that aren't given an equal playing field, sure

An equal playing field would be fine. Facilitating or demanding things like using g made up words for people and "checking your white privilege" and a host of other ideas that just don't make sense to a lot people is another.

You dont mind groups being catered to. You just want the ones you like to receive the catering and the ones you don't to shut up.

What's that saying about equality feeling like oppression?

FWIW, as a poor white dude in the South, I don't get why "we" feel the need to push back against progress. There'd be a lot less talk about privilege or fragility if we didn't continue to support oppression of "others" in our politics and our rhetoric. We just end up fucking everybody, including ourselves.

We're all in this thing together, man.

[Zip City]

You realize you just proved my point, right?

I'm racking my brain to think of all the Democratic candidates who were making jokes at your expense.

[Cole Younger]

When those are groups that aren't given an equal playing field, sure

An equal playing field would be fine. Facilitating or demanding things like using g made up words for people and "checking your white privilege" and a host of other ideas that just don't make sense to a lot people is another.

You dont mind groups being catered to. You just want the ones you like to receive the catering and the ones you don't to shut up.

What's that saying about equality feeling like oppression?

FWIW, as a poor white dude in the South, I don't get why "we" feel the need to push back against progress. There'd be a lot less talk about privilege or fragility if we didn't continue to support oppression of "others" in our politics and our rhetoric. We just end up fucking everybody, including ourselves.

We're all in this thing together, man.

Nah I can't say I agree with you, Smitty. If we were all in this together we could just live and let live. That isn't enough anymore. I don't understand the transgender thing, ok? Dont get it. Now that doesnt mean I want to harm any of these people. If I saw somebody who fits that description, I would venture to say that I would be quicker to stand up for them, even if that meant getting into a fight with whoever was tormenting them, than a lot of the people who run their mouths about supporting them. But that's not even enough. I'm not even allowed to say that a guy dressed as a woman is still a guy. That makes me a bigot. So I can either lie, or I can admit that while I would never mistreat one of these folks, I think it is weird and risk being called a bigot.

I'm not going to refer to somebody as "ze" or "zee" or whatever. That isn't a word. And I'm sorry, I think it's silly.

I'm not going to act like I think everything a person does is ok with me and avoid confrontation with them when they are wrong just because they are black, or gay or Hispanic or a woman or whatever they might be. Being a member of a group doesn't make you special to me and adhearing to some dreamed up code of social rules out of fear of being called a racist etc is something g I'm not willing to do.

None of this is progress. It just isn't. I suppose maybe it is progress it just isnt progress in a positive direction. If that is me pushing back, and I suppose it is, then I'm ok with that.

The problem with the progressive agenda is that it has pained everyone that supports it into a corner. It's is predicated on a bizzarre set of rules that literally nobody is capable of living up to. Nobody can be progressive enough for the progressives. You can't criticize Black Lives Matter for being the thugs (watch word) that they are when they act badly because people might think you are a racist. That's utter foolishness of course and totally void of common sense yet that's the way it is.

You aren't even allowed to ask questions about global warming because if you do you will be called a "denier". That's religious rhetoric but that's the word that gets used.

You aren't supposed to even say very much about groups like ISIS. Because if you say too much or seem to critical you might be suspected of Islamaphobia (which I'm pretty sure isnt even a real word) which is of course nonsense.

No we aren't all in this together. I want no part of taking that ride.

I read something a while back about a female college student who dresses like a male calls herself male etc but is biologically female. She decided to run for some position in student government but was told she couldn't do it because as a transgender white male she was part of the patriarchy. Lol! Nobody can be progressive enough. Simply denying an allegation of racism is deemed racism. A micro aggression. That's insane.

I suppose I am pushing back and I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't. This stuff isn't grounded in common sense and it isn't the least bit practical.

[Cole Younger]

You realize you just proved my point, right?

I'm racking my brain to think of all the Democratic candidates who were making jokes at your expense.

I wasn't talking about candidates I was just talking about everyday folks. But our last president did make the guns and religion comment. I really would just as soon they were honest like that and am glad he was if that is how he feels. But I w a any thinking about politicians when I said that.

[Zip City]

I'm not going to even respond to your longer post, Cole, as it will just end up being a fight

[John A Arkansawyer]

Nah I can't say I agree with you, Smitty. If we were all in this together we could just live and let live. That isn't enough anymore. I don't understand the transgender thing, ok? Dont get it. Now that doesnt mean I want to harm any of these people. If I saw somebody who fits that description, I would venture to say that I would be quicker to stand up for them, even if that meant getting into a fight with whoever was tormenting them, than a lot of the people who run their mouths about supporting them. But that's not even enough. I'm not even allowed to say that a guy dressed as a woman is still a guy. That makes me a bigot. So I can either lie, or I can admit that while I would never mistreat one of these folks, I think it is weird and risk being called a bigot.

I'm not going to refer to somebody as "ze" or "zee" or whatever. That isn't a word. And I'm sorry, I think it's silly.

I'm not big on the "ze" thing, though my kid and my kid's mom did come up with a really neat set of normal-sounding pronouns recently. Mostly, though, the kid wants to be called he these days, and doesn't get huffy if someone gets it wrong. I got my pronouns put on my nametag at church, just like I did for the kid, as an act of support. Some folks are getting them on their nametags; most aren't. They're very liberal people but they don't get it either, not entirely, not most of them. I don't get it entirely myself, not in my gut, but in my head, I remember I read science fiction and always wanted to live in the future and now it's here. So I try to remember and sometimes I get it wrong and the kid is very gracious about it, and not only because I've got the kid's back. I've got a real good kid I'm awfully proud of.

The folks who go off on people? Mostly I think they're in the wrong. I saw a really nasty example of that in March, when a trans lady threw a big hissy because one meeting at a big weeklong event was for biologically female lesbians. It turned into a really ugly scene, and that trans lady was the one who started it and the one who was at fault. I said as much, though I took a while doing it, because it mostly wasn't my crowd and I wanted to know for sure what was going on, but eventually I did. I mean, I once sat in an office in Manhattan and listened to prominent drag queen X trash radical feminist lesbian Y for being Z in bed. I know better than to think someone out there has sweet-smelling shit.

I'm not going to act like I think everything a person does is ok with me and avoid confrontation with them when they are wrong just because they are black, or gay or Hispanic or a woman or whatever they might be. Being a member of a group doesn't make you special to me and adhearing to some dreamed up code of social rules out of fear of being called a racist etc is something g I'm not willing to do.

There's a lot of justice in that. But I know you wouldn't like being called a racist because you're identifiably a southerner. It's not the same thing, but it's not all that different, either. Just something to mull over.

None of this is progress. It just isn't. I suppose maybe it is progress it just isnt progress in a positive direction. If that is me pushing back, and I suppose it is, then I'm ok with that.

The problem with the progressive agenda is that it has pained everyone that supports it into a corner. It's is predicated on a bizzarre set of rules that literally nobody is capable of living up to. Nobody can be progressive enough for the progressives. You can't criticize Black Lives Matter for being the thugs (watch word) that they are when they act badly because people might think you are a racist. That's utter foolishness of course and totally void of common sense yet that's the way it is.

See, I disagree with you about Black Lives Matter, but I get what you're saying about rules no one can live up to. I'm pretty hardcore about the idea that killing is always wrong, even when it's in clearly justifiable and unavoidable self-defense. I don't know that I could live up to that ideal. I'm pretty sure there are circumstances where I couldn't do any better than most folks. I still think it's the right standard and I try to live up to it.

I'm not so big on other people holding me to the standard, though. That's a matter for me and my conscience. That goes double for things which are unusual and confusing. I think it's real progress we're seeing now, mostly, and it's confusing enough that it's wrong to hold people too harshly to account, plus it's new enough that even though I'm pretty sure I'm mostly right, I'm also pretty sure I'm wrong about some stuff that won't become apparent for a long time. Probably not until after I'm dead and history, if it remembers me at all, will call me to account. But I'll be dead and I'm pretty sure I won't mind it then. It worries me now a little, but I can't see into the future, so I have to cut myself some slack. A lot of real good people have been made fools or villains by history.

Simply denying an allegation of racism is deemed racism. A micro aggression. That's insane.

I suppose I am pushing back and I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't. This stuff isn't grounded in common sense and it isn't the least bit practical.

Right there, you've pushed two of my buttons. The double-bind, catch-22, damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't stuff, that really pisses me off. It's piggish behavior when it becomes the default. Sometimes it applies. Sometimes the denial does show the racism. But somehow no one ever seems to catch Bill Maher in that trap, even though he richly deserves it for being the asshole that he is. And that term microaggression, I'm really out to get that one. It's not a neutral term. It assumes there's an aggressor. I get why it feels that way to someone who suffers a lot of actual discrimination, and I get that some of what's called microaggression really is aggression. Sometimes it doesn't seem all that micro to me. But a lot of what's called microaggression is more like being jostled on a crowded train platform. You aren't an aggressor when you're just trying to breathe.

So I don't blame you for pushing back. I think you're wrong about some of it, maybe a lot of it, but it's not like you're not getting pushed. You're on that crowded train platform, too. In that sense, we are all in it together, like it or not. I don't like it all that much myself sometimes. Most of the people I agree with are decent folks, but there are a few I've spotted as bad actors, and I'm keeping a close eye on them, for what good it'll do me. They're usually pretty slippery people, hard to hold to account, but every now and then, you get a good bead on one of the bastards. If I get my shot on one of those few who deserve to have the hammer dropped on them, I'll take it.

What's practical, now, that changes with time. It didn't use to be practical to make a lot of the accommodations we now routinely make for the disabled. What experience shows is the more we work to accommodate them, the more practical it becomes. So I don't worry too much about what's practical, just about how to do my best to move the ball forward.

Common sense, though. There's two ways of thinking about it. One is that it's stuff that's just obvious. Water runs downhill. Trees don't grow to the sky. Two wrongs don't make a right. Well, duh. That doesn't take a genius to figure out. But the other way, that's the one that's trickier. It's about the knowledge, the ideas, the sensibilities, the sense that we hold in common. That's the part you can fairly say is socially constructed, that isn't always obvious and is often counterintuitive, and that changes over time. That's the part where I think you're wrong and I'm right, but where I'm also willing to admit I don't know it, I just think it. I think it pretty strongly. I have a lot on the line for it in some cases. I wouldn't do that if i thought I was wrong. But I don't know and I might turn out to be wrong after all. And so could you.

The gender stuff is especially like that. There are a few things that really are biology. I got up in the night when the kid cried, 'cause the kid's mom had a hard time going back to sleep. But when the kid wanted to nurse, I woke the kid's mom up. I'm just not equipped. I'd've done it if I could've, but I couldn't. But a lot of it isn't biology. It's social. And whether this new understanding of how it's social, and when to ignore the biology that looks like common sense, turns out to be right or wrong? I think it's right. It's more freedom for people to shape their own lives the way they want them. But I used to feel that way about other things I now understand as being mistakes. Time will tell, one way or another. Beyond simple respect for people's dignity and right to exist, though, I try not to get up on my high horse. Except when I do. But that's getting rarer.

I was staying at a band house once, napping in the bed of the lead singer and her boyfriend the guitarist. He didn't know I was in there and I didn't know that was who was running a hand down my back. He kind of freaked out when he realized it. Me? I thought it was kind of funny. And I realized that so far as my senses told me from just the touch that it felt like I was getting lucky with the lead singer, till I knew otherwise. It was a learning experience, the sort that actually changes how you see and experience and live in the world. I try to be open to those sorts of things and understand them. That one didn't get me interested in boys. It did give me some insight into gender being about the mind more than the anatomy, what's in my head more than what's in my pants.

Anyway, this is the sort of thing I think about. I still take sides, pretty strongly. The stakes are high and you have to bet on something. If you don't bet, then you're betting on getting away with that. (Yeah, I know, but I think this double bind that describes what really is. You can't escape some things.) I try not to be an asshole about it. Except when I have to be. Then I try to be a real asshole. If you're going to do it, do it up right.

[dime in the gutter]

we get the elected officials we deserve. always.

trump is no exception.

[beantownbubba]

What's interesting about catching up w/ a whole bunch of posts at once is that one gets more of a big picture view of things. And what I see here is a microcosm of America: Everybody's got some good points, everybody has their blind spots/limitations/misunderstandings and everyone tends to focus on the perceived weakest parts of the other argument(s) (yeah, of course that's common sense, but still, it matters when you're looking at it from 30,000 feet) while ignoring the parts that make some sense and where common ground might be found w/ a little effort. When one is in the midst of the argument, the high level causes and effects tend to get obscured while details get exagerated and chewed over until there's nothing left to say, but we just keep saying the same things anyway, just more and more defensively. Some examples:

Racism has always been and continues to be a major problem in this country. The solutions beyond the incredibly obvious like the 13th Amendment (ending slavery) have been imperfect. But imperfect solutions don't mean there isn't a problem and believing that the solutions are not working does not make one a racist. Yet we all quickly retreat to our corners, either downplaying the reality of racism or ignoring the real problems created by policies and evolving cultural norms that are sub-optimal at best and wrongheaded and counter-productive at worst. So I can say w/out feeling at all hypocritical that I believe that CY is on the right path w/ his distrust of interest group politics (used as a catch all phrase directed at policies and standards that are intended to address inequality by focusing on various groups believed to be the victims) but that racism and a number of other isms are real, pervasive, damaging even destructive to the country and require continued efforts to address and resolve.

Americans like to believe that we are uniquely generous and kindhearted. Leaving aside the question of whether nations can ever be either of those things, I have argued for a long time that the basis for the kinds of policies that support that belief has been the reality and assumption of the ever-expanding pie. The pie stopped expanding a long time ago. The remaining pie is being distributed ever more unfairly. These are fundamental, long-term realities. They effect everything. Yet the conversation/analysis tends to ignore this big picture while focusing on various fights over the scraps. This is a really, really bad thing. It is one of the things that makes Trump so damaging. For example, he wants to bring back coal jobs but the coal industry is dying no matter what he does. The loss of coal industry jobs has had brutal effects on real people. Promising to bring back those jobs sounds wonderful. But that causes the focus to be on the best way to bring those job backs or the right balance between economic growth and environmental protection when the real question is what do we do next when whole industries are disappearing?

The future asserts itself in its own way and it's a juggernaut that has to be acknowledged, not ignored. The US has traditionally been great at that. But we're blowing it. It is inconceivable to me that we are ceding control of the renewable energy future to China by continuing to bet on old technologies. Renewable energy offers one path to those elusive good jobs everyone talks about while also being great for the environment and having other benefits, yet other countries are moving faster and further than we are. They will get and keep the good jobs that go w/ that kind of development while we will get the secondary jobs like installing solar panels. Worse, leadership now creates a platform from which to continue to evolve and grow and create new technologies and industries. Once a country falls behind it becomes very, very difficult to catch up. But we keep arguing about pipelines and strip mining which are all about the past.

Countries have a fundamental problem: Capital is transient and global, countries are fixed. For a long time this was not a problem for the US because capital tended to migrate here. But now it doesn't, at least not so overwhelmingly. One of the spinoffs of this fundamental reality and problem is the debate over free trade. The Democrats have a real problem (well, ok, that should be in the plural, but let's focus on one): They are imho correct about the long-term benefits of free trade. But free trade policies as implemented these days are virtually synonymous w/ significant job losses, especially among the traditional core of the party, the working class. But instead of embracing free trade, explaining why (including why it will be good for working class people) and working to fix the problems it causes, Democrats spend their time running away from their votes for NAFTA, etc, making them look ridiculous. This is due in part to a world view that sees legitimate fears of white working class people as a threat to black people and other minorities as they fight over distributing the scraps. W/out denying the racial component of this dynamic, viewing the world through the interest group lens is incredibly distorting, nowhere more so than in this arena. Has anybody stopped to ask how the Republicans have positioned themselves as the friend of the working person while also overwhelmingly supporting free trade (until 2016)? My answer: Both parties have shifted the argument to the racial and interest group aspects, which favors the party that pretends to side w/ the white working class w/ the usual winks, nods and dog whistles. IOW, by refusing to own up to reality while misdiagnosing at least a big part of the problem, the Democrats are creating the conditions from which the Republicans benefit. Of course the Republicans bear the responsibility for the cynicism and divisiveness of their response.

Equality is a worthy and important goal but very hard to achieve. It has never existed in the history of the world. The US has been engaged in a long-term experiment of breathtaking audacity by simply acknowledging the goal as worth striving for. But there are no blueprints, no tried and true solutions. I suggest that a little more humility in acknowledging the difficulty of the problem(s) and the uncertain effect of proposed solutions (as well as the humility to admit that some solutions have not worked or have not worked well enough to justify accepting the problems they cause) would go a long way. There is no one answer and there is no "common sense" obvious path. We need to continue to work at it with the understanding that we're in uncharted territory, which requires flexibility, openness, cooperation, good faith, less defensiveness and lots and lots of humility.