The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:29 pm
and then sail off to a lucrative life of paid news hits, speeches at luncheons with overcooked chicken, and hawking a ghostwritten book called, like, A Matter of Integrity or some such.
Way of the world, my friend, way of the world. Just look at the recent disgusting reports of Supreme Court Justices cashing in while still in office.
Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:29 pm
Thought the part segueing from showing Trump’s Pence tweet on the screen to the video of some terrorist dipshit reading it aloud using a megaphone was pretty powerful.
Yes. Thought the same about the segue from the report of Trump's quote to the effect that Pence deserved to be hanged to the video of the "gallows" and noose outside the Capitol.
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beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Heather Cox Richardson reports that about 20 million people watched the first hearing. I have no idea how to interpret that. She notes that it's more people than watch a typical world series game these days and in this modern world of fractured viewing habits I guess 20 million is considered a large audience. But you know that baseball watching is in steep decline and the long term trends for the sport are not good, so I'm not sure that comparison gives me comfort. And obviously it would be easy to constitute an audience of 20 million people without even scratching the surface of people who might fit into the "persuadable" category to say nothing of those who believe in the big lie, don't think January 6th was a big deal, etc. Preaching to the converted just won't get it done and I can't see any reason to think the hearing was anything other than that.

I'm tired of saying it at this point, but the counter arguments floated by Trump and his acolytes are notable only for the contortions they go through without coming close to making a meaningful to say nothing of compelling argument. In a different but related vein, that Congressman from RI who said something like "stop giving me the same old bullshit" in reference to 2nd Amendment absolutist objections to gun control got the 2nd Amendment crowd all up in, ummm, arms. The crazies did what the crazies do but even the relatively sober, establishment National Review commented to the effect that he "finally said the quiet part out loud: Gun control advocates don't care about the Constitution or their oath to support it." This obvious misunderstanding or deliberate distortion of what the Congressman said once again makes clear how far we've fallen and how hard it will be to get back up. Maybe we should all wear life alert alarms?
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beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

From today's NYT:

"Those Americans who still believe in Mr. Trump and his grievances may disagree with whatever conclusions the committee draws, but we urge them to see and hear the evidence the committee has collected from interviewing 1,000 witnesses and gathering more than 140,000 documents.

"Those Americans who were horrified by Jan. 6 also must not turn away in the belief that they already know what happened. There is much more to come in future hearings that has not yet been publicly disclosed. Gaining a deeper and more detailed understanding of the forces at work inside the White House, among Republicans speaking and texting that day and at the Capitol is essential to facing an essential truth about democracy: that it depends on leaders who commit to a peaceful transfer of power.

"The insurrection and the lies that led to it, as Mr. Thompson put it, “have put two and a half centuries of constitutional democracy at risk.” The danger will remain until Americans fully confront what happened on that day. The committee has given us that chance."
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Mundane Mayhem
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:26 pm
From today's NYT:

"Those Americans who still believe in Mr. Trump and his grievances may disagree with whatever conclusions the committee draws, but we urge them to see and hear the evidence the committee has collected from interviewing 1,000 witnesses and gathering more than 140,000 documents.

"Those Americans who were horrified by Jan. 6 also must not turn away in the belief that they already know what happened. There is much more to come in future hearings that has not yet been publicly disclosed. Gaining a deeper and more detailed understanding of the forces at work inside the White House, among Republicans speaking and texting that day and at the Capitol is essential to facing an essential truth about democracy: that it depends on leaders who commit to a peaceful transfer of power.

"The insurrection and the lies that led to it, as Mr. Thompson put it, “have put two and a half centuries of constitutional democracy at risk.” The danger will remain until Americans fully confront what happened on that day. The committee has given us that chance."
This is, of course, true, but the idea that the NYT would even pretend it has the slightest degree of sway over the people mentioned in the first paragraph made me LOL.

The NYT urging them to do something would make them LESS likely to actually do it.
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beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

A perfect example why so many people distrust and dislike (hate?) the mainstream media and the cultural elites that support and are supported by them.

Take a look at the so called bipartisan deal on gun safety reached by a committee of senators from both parties. The deal has been greeted with joy and optimism by the powers that be and consensus makers, even those who say "it's only a first step." Let's start with the obvious: This is not a "deal" in any customary sense of the term. It's a "framework," an "agreement to agree," a non-binding "we'll let the Senate talk about this" piece of paper. That ain't no deal.

Second, it is viewed as a sign that bipartisanship is alive and that government can work. Seriously? As I said, literally nothing has been accomplished. And even by its terms the thing is so milquetoasty and wishy washy it hardly represents a great leap forward. Incrementalism is one thing, and it's one thing politics feeds on, but microscopic incrementalism is more like a slow shuffle to nowhere.

Would I vote for it on the basis that something is better than nothing and that it might accidentally do some good? Sure. Do I think it's a reasonable use of Congress's time, effective legislation and a reason to believe that government can work for the governed? Not a chance.

What i see is the Republicans looking for a fig leaf to hide from voter anger in the upcoming midterms ("look! we did something!") and an ugly, desperate willingness to take any crumbs that fall off the Republican table by the Democrats as well as a reward from the Dems to the Republicans for the Republicans absurd, outrageous, unsupported in law or fact extreme positions. As to the crumbs, my dog would have been embarrassed to beg that baldly for that little. As for the reward, anybody who thinks that this represents a break in the Republican hegemony on gun issues or a warming of the legislative process that can be built upon, boy have I got a bridge you will absolutely love. On sale, this week only!
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by brettac1 »

The whole "framework" thing has become the new way to say "oh well, we tried." "We really want to do this popular thing that you elected us to but golly we just *can't*!"

In reality, a Senate with Joe Manchin as the most powerful member doesn't function all that differently than one where Mitch McConnell was. Of course the deeper issue is that if it wasn't Manchin, it'd just be a different boogeyman in his place to take the beating on Twitter and laugh all the way to the bank.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

brettac1 wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:15 pm
The whole "framework" thing has become the new way to say "oh well, we tried." "We really want to do this popular thing that you elected us to but golly we just *can't*!"

In reality, a Senate with Joe Manchin as the most powerful member doesn't function all that differently than one where Mitch McConnell was. Of course the deeper issue is that if it wasn't Manchin, it'd just be a different boogeyman in his place to take the beating on Twitter and laugh all the way to the bank.
100 percent. After the nugget from the committee today about Trump’s Save America PAC, I’ve been doing some reading this evening about Leadership PACs and the naked corruption they engender on both sides of the aisle. So they can use those funds to court big donors and stay at five-star hotels while they sell us tepid bullshit like this gun “framework.” A den of thieves is about the nicest thing I can think to call Congress this particular evening.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by brettac1 »

In regards to the 1/6 hearings, I've watched ~half of them so far and they seem to occupy the weird space of being both necessary and basically irrelevant.

So far the main thing they have accomplished is to rehabilitate people like Liz Cheney, Pence and even Bill fucking Barr, etc. Over the past decade-ish the idea of the "Sane Rational Republican" has become fetishized by the mainstream media and liberals who watch a lot if cable news.

If anyone had the courage to say the magic phrase "Orange Man Bad," their past is forgotten and they write a best-selling book minimizing their role in the destruction of the country and/or get hired as a contributor by CNN/MSNBC, et al. The most comical example of course being George W. Bush (IMO neck and neck with Reagan for the title of worst President of all-time), but there have been countless others to get the same treatment. More will be created as a result of this, while at the same time no one who had actual power will be held to account.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

brettac1 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:17 am
In regards to the 1/6 hearings, I've watched ~half of them so far and they seem to occupy the weird space of being both necessary and basically irrelevant.

So far the main thing they have accomplished is to rehabilitate people like Liz Cheney, Pence and even Bill fucking Barr, etc. Over the past decade-ish the idea of the "Sane Rational Republican" has become fetishized by the mainstream media and liberals who watch a lot if cable news.

If anyone had the courage to say the magic phrase "Orange Man Bad," their past is forgotten and they write a best-selling book minimizing their role in the destruction of the country and/or get hired as a contributor by CNN/MSNBC, et al. The most comical example of course being George W. Bush (IMO neck and neck with Reagan for the title of worst President of all-time), but there have been countless others to get the same treatment. More will be created as a result of this, while at the same time no one who had actual power will be held to account.
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cortez the killer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 4:44 pm
As for the reward, anybody who thinks that this represents a break in the Republican hegemony on gun issues or a warming of the legislative process that can be built upon, boy have I got a bridge you will absolutely love. On sale, this week only!

(Clams will be excited to see a young Swizzle in the crowd.)
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

brettac1 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:17 am
Over the past decade-ish the idea of the "Sane Rational Republican" has become fetishized by the mainstream media and liberals who watch a lot if cable news.
Yes, similar to my comment about the MSM above. Same dynamic, anyway.
brettac1 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:17 am
they seem to occupy the weird space of being both necessary and basically irrelevant.
We won't know how [ir]relevant they are until somewhere down the road. Will it move public opinion away from Trump, and Trumpists, for that matter? Will Cheney be able to turn around her campaign? Will it result in indictments? Will it result in convictions? Will reaction to those indictments or convictions, if any, result in the complete breakdown of civil society? To be clear, I don't expect anything like a groundswell of anti-Trump sentiment to magically appear but I do think it is possible that he himself will become more marginalized/less powerful in the GOP and that his followers may have to change their tactics somewhat, mostly around being less slavishly committed to Trump individually. Possible. Not probable, and certainly no guarantee.

And yes, the celebrity miscreant/resurrected loser phenomenon has a long dishonorable tradition in this country. Never understood it, still don't. But then again, I'm the kind of guy who writes [well, wrote, back in the day] letters to the editor wondering why the paper's photographer was being lauded for getting a "great shot" of real time violence rather than being criticized for not doing anything to help. [And that goes for all you cellphone videographers out there, too, unless help is already being given by others; yes, the George Floyd video is the exception]
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

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cortez the killer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

Zip City wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:11 pm
Cheney pushed back on that and Schiff said it was news to him. Sounds like the committee is a bit out of sync.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

An ad for a tshirt that some algorithm thought was right for me:

IF GUNS KILL PEOPLE
Then I guess cars drive drunk
and forks make people fat

I guess this is why we can't have nice things, including safe schools. This is so fundamentally, flabbergastingly stupid that I lost 10 IQ points just typing it. But I guess it explains why the founders saw fit to add Amendment 2.5 to the Constitution. You know, the one that says that a well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and drive cars and to keep and use forks shall not be infringed.

If you want to know why reasonable gun control is a lost cause in this country, this seems like a good place to start.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Flea »

beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:30 pm
An ad for a tshirt that some algorithm thought was right for me:

IF GUNS KILL PEOPLE
Then I guess cars drive drunk
and forks make people fat

I guess this is why we can't have nice things, including safe schools. This is so fundamentally, flabbergastingly stupid that I lost 10 IQ points just typing it. But I guess it explains why the founders saw fit to add Amendment 2.5 to the Constitution. You know, the one that says that a well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and drive cars and to keep and use forks shall not be infringed.

If you want to know why reasonable gun control is a lost cause in this country, this seems like a good place to start.
This country is a lost cause unless/until our Constitution is redone.
Now it's dark.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

Flea wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:11 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:30 pm
An ad for a tshirt that some algorithm thought was right for me:

IF GUNS KILL PEOPLE
Then I guess cars drive drunk
and forks make people fat

I guess this is why we can't have nice things, including safe schools. This is so fundamentally, flabbergastingly stupid that I lost 10 IQ points just typing it. But I guess it explains why the founders saw fit to add Amendment 2.5 to the Constitution. You know, the one that says that a well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and drive cars and to keep and use forks shall not be infringed.

If you want to know why reasonable gun control is a lost cause in this country, this seems like a good place to start.
This country is a lost cause unless/until our Constitution is redone.
It's a failed experiment, greed has won. We were doomed before but when the Supreme Court gave corporations the same rights as actual people it sealed the deal. We're in the throes of the US empire dying just like many before it. Whenever the military becomes the dominating force in the economy, the empire is done or close to it.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

Flea wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:11 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:30 pm
An ad for a tshirt that some algorithm thought was right for me:

IF GUNS KILL PEOPLE
Then I guess cars drive drunk
and forks make people fat

I guess this is why we can't have nice things, including safe schools. This is so fundamentally, flabbergastingly stupid that I lost 10 IQ points just typing it. But I guess it explains why the founders saw fit to add Amendment 2.5 to the Constitution. You know, the one that says that a well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and drive cars and to keep and use forks shall not be infringed.

If you want to know why reasonable gun control is a lost cause in this country, this seems like a good place to start.
This country is a lost cause unless/until our Constitution is redone.
I'm honestly exploring obtaining an EU Passport and alternate citizenship. I'm not optimistic about the next chapter in our country's future and don't think it will get much better in my lifetime.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by jr29 »

I do not like Mike Pence. I am beginning to respect him a lot more through the course of these hearings though.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

jr29 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:20 pm
I do not like Mike Pence. I am beginning to respect him a lot more through the course of these hearings though.
Agree. But I think we need to be careful for throwing around words like "brave" and "hero". The Republicans who stood up are simply fulfilling the oath they swore. The are doing the bare-minimum of doing their job.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by jr29 »

pearlbeer wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:26 pm
jr29 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:20 pm
I do not like Mike Pence. I am beginning to respect him a lot more through the course of these hearings though.
Agree. But I think we need to be careful for throwing around words like "brave" and "hero". The Republicans who stood up are simply fulfilling the oath they swore. The are doing the bare-minimum of doing their job.
I basically agree. I do think that the act of staying at the Capitol while it was being attacked and while he was being advised to leave was a pretty brave act. He could have left and said "the secret service advised me to leave and I trust them" , but he didn't. That does not make him a hero though.

I'm a truck driver and I do some stuff that requires a certain level of bravery. Hero.......not by a long shot.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

jr29 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:48 pm
pearlbeer wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:26 pm
jr29 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:20 pm
I do not like Mike Pence. I am beginning to respect him a lot more through the course of these hearings though.
Agree. But I think we need to be careful for throwing around words like "brave" and "hero". The Republicans who stood up are simply fulfilling the oath they swore. The are doing the bare-minimum of doing their job.
I basically agree. I do think that the act of staying at the Capitol while it was being attacked and while he was being advised to leave was a pretty brave act. He could have left and said "the secret service advised me to leave and I trust them" , but he didn't. That does not make him a hero though.

I'm a truck driver and I do some stuff that requires a certain level of bravery. Hero.......not by a long shot.
I'm with you. It's tough for me to concede any platitudes to that community, but I guess, yeah...that was a brave act. I'll split the difference by assuming "Mother" forced him to do the right thing. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

I think it sums up a number of comments over the past couple of days to say that we have sunk so low, that simply doing the obvious right thing, simply doing one’ s job is now the exceptional “profile in courage” level in politics/public life. As it happens we are actually lucky that people like pence, Cheney and raffensberger were in the right place at a very wrong time.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:20 pm
I think it sums up a number of comments over the past couple of days to say that we have sunk so low, that simply doing the obvious right thing, simply doing one’ s job is now the exceptional “profile in courage” level in politics/public life. As it happens we are actually lucky that people like pence, Cheney and raffensberger were in the right place at a very wrong time.
Doing your job under exceptional circumstances can itself be exceptional behavior. I'm not sure this rises to that level, but it's a thought to consider.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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The whole point of yesterday was seemingly the Mike Pence rehabilitation tour. Absolutely insufferable. I don't know if I've ever seen someone chew the scenery like Luttig. Ponderous, in the "Conservative scholar" tradition. A guy so extremely right-wing that Samuel Alito was the moderate choice next to him.

Though there will likely be no repercussions for Trump to come from this, they succeeded in providing the Pence '24 all kinds of material for their e-mail blasts. Which will annoy Liz Cheney greatly since that was *her* angle.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

brettac1 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:45 am
The whole point of yesterday was seemingly the Mike Pence rehabilitation tour. Absolutely insufferable.
I'm not sure what else the Committee could or should have done. In terms of legitimate inquiry, historical record and political considerations, the better Pence looks, the worse Trump, Eastman and the rest of the cabal (and to some extent, the supposed Trump "team normal") look, and that's really the point of the exercise. And if you're trying to show how close we came to full on melt-down, an heroic Pence standing tall against the forces of evil is almost necessary to tell that story, because if he didn't step up big then the threat was arguably not that great.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:16 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:20 pm
I think it sums up a number of comments over the past couple of days to say that we have sunk so low, that simply doing the obvious right thing, simply doing one’ s job is now the exceptional “profile in courage” level in politics/public life. As it happens we are actually lucky that people like pence, Cheney and raffensberger were in the right place at a very wrong time.
Doing your job under exceptional circumstances can itself be exceptional behavior. I'm not sure this rises to that level, but it's a thought to consider.
True.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by brettac1 »

beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:17 am
brettac1 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:45 am
The whole point of yesterday was seemingly the Mike Pence rehabilitation tour. Absolutely insufferable.
I'm not sure what else the Committee could or should have done. In terms of legitimate inquiry, historical record and political considerations, the better Pence looks, the worse Trump, Eastman and the rest of the cabal (and to some extent, the supposed Trump "team normal") look, and that's really the point of the exercise. And if you're trying to show how close we came to full on melt-down, an heroic Pence standing tall against the forces of evil is almost necessary to tell that story, because if he didn't step up big then the threat was arguably not that great.
Less of witnesses describing/soliloquizing his actions and the story of his day and more of a sober telling of history. Pence is a Christian nationalist. He is himself a force of evil. The people that worked for/around him share that worldview.

Certainly one of the worst developnents of the social media age is that large portions of the country seem to have the memory of a goldfish.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Mundane Mayhem »

brettac1 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:45 am
Pence '24
I have no particular interest in the rehabilitation of Mike Pence, who is indeed mostly odious. But I don't really worry about this. A not-insignificant part of his supposed base literally built a gallows for him 17 months ago, and he has the approximate charisma of a teenage boy's "special" sock.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by brettac1 »

Mundane Mayhem wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:31 am
brettac1 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:45 am
Pence '24
I have no particular interest in the rehabilitation of Mike Pence, who is indeed mostly odious. But I don't really worry about this. A not-insignificant part of his supposed base literally built a gallows for him 17 months ago, and he has the approximate charisma of a teenage boy's "special" sock.
Oh he won't win but he's angling to be the favored non-Trump option. His actual "base" can fit in the MSNBC greenroom on any given day. IMO Trump runs and essentially clears the field aside from some loser that the National Review/Weekly Standard freaks try to get traction behind. Pence and Liz Cheney are going for that second lane.
Do you ever get tired of singin' songs
Like all your pain is just another fuckin' sing along?

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