The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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chuckrh
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

pearlbeer wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:21 pm
One week.

One. Week.

It's been a long four years. It's been a fucking long year.


Is it going to be okay? Someone tell me it's all going to be okay.
I'm nervous about the big south-middle stupid. No offense. All because the election is based on something that was put in to appease the slave owning states. We're already fucked with the Supreme Court.

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

chuckrh wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:09 pm
pearlbeer wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:21 pm
One week.

One. Week.

It's been a long four years. It's been a fucking long year.


Is it going to be okay? Someone tell me it's all going to be okay.
I'm nervous about the big south-middle stupid. No offense. All because the election is based on something that was put in to appease the slave owning states. We're already fucked with the Supreme Court.
Just call us deplorables and get it over with, man. Lol. And it really puzzles you why those people don’t vote Democrat.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

chuckrh
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

Cole Younger wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:51 pm
chuckrh wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:09 pm
pearlbeer wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:21 pm
One week.

One. Week.

It's been a long four years. It's been a fucking long year.


Is it going to be okay? Someone tell me it's all going to be okay.
I'm nervous about the big south-middle stupid. No offense. All because the election is based on something that was put in to appease the slave owning states. We're already fucked with the Supreme Court.
Just call us deplorables and get it over with, man. Lol. And it really puzzles you why those people don’t vote Democrat.
You will make good serfs

Mr. B
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Mr. B »

Cole Younger wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:51 pm
chuckrh wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:09 pm
pearlbeer wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:21 pm
One week.

One. Week.

It's been a long four years. It's been a fucking long year.


Is it going to be okay? Someone tell me it's all going to be okay.
I'm nervous about the big south-middle stupid. No offense. All because the election is based on something that was put in to appease the slave owning states. We're already fucked with the Supreme Court.
Just call us deplorables and get it over with, man. Lol. And it really puzzles you why those people don’t vote Democrat.
Yeah, because the people they vote for sure do have their best interests in mind.

John A Arkansawyer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

Mr. B wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:38 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:51 pm
chuckrh wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:09 pm


I'm nervous about the big south-middle stupid. No offense. All because the election is based on something that was put in to appease the slave owning states. We're already fucked with the Supreme Court.
Just call us deplorables and get it over with, man. Lol. And it really puzzles you why those people don’t vote Democrat.
Yeah, because the people they vote for sure do have their best interests in mind.
If two people plan to treat me like shit, and one of them insults me on top of it, the other will get my vote. The barely-disguised contempt liberals have for people without money who are not like themselves is one more reason I'm a socialist.

What has the Democratic Party done for working people lately? Find me something in the last forty years on the scale of this:



Till something like that comes out of the mouth of party leadership--even as a proposal--please stop pretending the Democratic Party serves anyone but the American Axis of Evil: Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and Hollywood. The good it does is incidental to its deliberate fucking of the working class.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

John A Arkansawyer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

This interview is full of hope for the near future:

Imagining the End of Capitalism With Kim Stanley Robinson
So law, justice, post-capitalism, women’s rights, post-patriarchy — all these things could be defined as forms of geoengineering, and at that point, the term kind of falls apart. What we’re really talking about is civilization, as such, as a form of biosphere management. So this is what I’m going out there with over and over on this point, because there’s too much hardening of positions, and these positions are being taken on the basis of the situation as it existed in about 1980 or maybe 1990. The positions are behind the curve of the realities. So, as a leftist science fiction writer, it’s my responsibility to be politically incorrect in provocative ways.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

chuckrh
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

& the Republicans don't serve above axis of evil? The main difference is the Republicans are more blatant about it. It's a lesser of 2 evils situation in my view. It's all in service of the corporate overlords. The 4th reich is here & well established. He most likely didn't say it first but Roger Waters had a good quote: "The road to tyranny is long & insidious". Seig heil.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:10 am
Mr. B wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:38 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:51 pm


Just call us deplorables and get it over with, man. Lol. And it really puzzles you why those people don’t vote Democrat.
Yeah, because the people they vote for sure do have their best interests in mind.
If two people plan to treat me like shit, and one of them insults me on top of it, the other will get my vote. The barely-disguised contempt liberals have for people without money who are not like themselves is one more reason I'm a socialist.

What has the Democratic Party done for working people lately? Find me something in the last forty years on the scale of this:



Till something like that comes out of the mouth of party leadership--even as a proposal--please stop pretending the Democratic Party serves anyone but the American Axis of Evil: Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and Hollywood. The good it does is incidental to its deliberate fucking of the working class.
i am increasingly agreeing with this position.

Mr. B
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Mr. B »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:10 am
Mr. B wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:38 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:51 pm


Just call us deplorables and get it over with, man. Lol. And it really puzzles you why those people don’t vote Democrat.
Yeah, because the people they vote for sure do have their best interests in mind.
If two people plan to treat me like shit, and one of them insults me on top of it, the other will get my vote. The barely-disguised contempt liberals have for people without money who are not like themselves is one more reason I'm a socialist.

What has the Democratic Party done for working people lately? Find me something in the last forty years on the scale of this:



Till something like that comes out of the mouth of party leadership--even as a proposal--please stop pretending the Democratic Party serves anyone but the American Axis of Evil: Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and Hollywood. The good it does is incidental to its deliberate fucking of the working class.

I don't consider myself a Democrat as much as an anti-republican, but can you be more specific when you reference the insults coming from democrats? Yes, Hillary said a stupid thing years ago, but give me something from the last five years.

Not sure what you mean by "what have democrats done for working people lately." They haven't exactly been in a position to do so for several years. But, off the top of my head, what about Obamacare? Changing the rules about how overtime must be calculated for hourly workers? Bailing out the Auto Industry? Doing what they can to prevent neo-conservative justices and protecting a woman's right to choose? Constantly attempting to pass a higher minimum wage? (Including, specifically, a proposal introduced in this congressional session to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour.) Fighting against cuts in social programs like Head Start? Attempting to protect the right to vote in the face of opposing attempts to do everything possible to repress free elections, especially for minorities? And I suspect you know much more than I do about how the two parties' are approaching issues relating to the rights of immigrants, but off the top of my head I can think of one that doesn't throw babies in cages.

I agree that the leadership focus on Wall Street, etc. and anywhere else they can raise big $$ is terrible, but I'm not sure what other options exist in today's world, especially given what would happen politically if they moved much further left. Of course they can and should do a lot more for the working class. But I disagree with you when you say they haven't tried or done anything specific.

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cortez the killer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

Mr. B wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:07 am
I agree that the leadership focus on Wall Street, etc. and anywhere else they can raise big $$ is terrible, but I'm not sure what other options exist in today's world, especially given what would happen politically if they moved much further left. Of course they can and should do a lot more for the working class. But I disagree with you when you say they haven't tried or done anything specific.
Totally agree. Unless the rules of the game are changed, what do you expect them to do?
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
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pearlbeer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

cortez the killer wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:54 am
Mr. B wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:07 am
I agree that the leadership focus on Wall Street, etc. and anywhere else they can raise big $$ is terrible, but I'm not sure what other options exist in today's world, especially given what would happen politically if they moved much further left. Of course they can and should do a lot more for the working class. But I disagree with you when you say they haven't tried or done anything specific.
Totally agree. Unless the rules of the game are changed, what do you expect them to do?
+ Legalized Weed!! :)


Good post Mr. B.
Politics is frustrating, but helpful to see the forest from the trees every now and then.
Love each other, Motherfuckers!

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

John A drops a truth bomb. You’re my boy, John A.

Chuck, aren’t you in Seattle? Y’all have had your fist on the fool button up there for months now and you think you have room to condescend to the South and the Midwest? That’s hilarious.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

chuckrh
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

Cole Younger wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:37 pm
John A drops a truth bomb. You’re my boy, John A.

Chuck, aren’t you in Seattle? Y’all have had your fist on the fool button up there for months now and you think you have room to condescend to the South and the Midwest? That’s hilarious.
I'm looking to get out but difficult with the pandemic & my health issues. I've written here that nazi liberals are the worst. I just don't understand the striving to live a past that doesn't exist any more. As much as I didn't care for Hilary, I sure would rather have her in charge during the pandemic. The bunch that are in power now are blatantly criminal. I don't see how you all can buy the bullshit from that side. The days of "Leave it to Beaver" are gone for good. My main concern is the health care system as it is something I have to deal with every day. It's a bad joke now unless you are rich to the point of being immoral. The people who are against having system like the rest of the civilized world haven't had anything major go wrong. All so that the rich can increase their wealth. One example: some drugs that I need & pay $80 a month for now would cost me $800 a month under 1 Medicare supplement plan I was presented with. That's just one. I might as well blow my brains out now as I won't be able to live with any sort of quality under those conditions. I was for Bernie Sanders & how the media & democrats treated him was deplorable. He was the only 1 that to me was pro human & not just keeping the status quo. I have a lot of international friends & the US is looked at as a bad joke now. The corporate overlords have sold us out all in the name of stock price. If you have any kids, best have them take lessons in Chinese.

John A Arkansawyer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

Mr. B wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:07 am
Not sure what you mean by "what have democrats done for working people lately."
And that, in a nutshell, is the problem. I gave a specific example--the Tennessee Valley Authority, "a federally owned corporation in the United States created by congressional charter on May 18, 1933, to provide navigation, flood control, electricity generation, fertilizer manufacturing, and economic development to the Tennessee Valley, a region particularly affected by the Great Depression." And I added to what I said, "Find me something in the last forty years on the scale of this". The reason you couldn't is the Democratic Party, under Bill Clinton's leadership, crawled up capitalism's ass to nest.
Mr. B wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:07 am
Changing the rules about how overtime must be calculated for hourly workers? Bailing out the Auto Industry? Doing what they can to prevent neo-conservative justices and protecting a woman's right to choose? Constantly attempting to pass a higher minimum wage? (Including, specifically, a proposal introduced in this congressional session to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour.) Fighting against cuts in social programs like Head Start? Attempting to protect the right to vote in the face of opposing attempts to do everything possible to repress free elections, especially for minorities? And I suspect you know much more than I do about how the two parties' are approaching issues relating to the rights of immigrants, but off the top of my head I can think of one that doesn't throw babies in cages.
What of that puts more money is someone's pocket? The overtime rule and the minimum wage (which wasn't raised the last time Democrats controlled Congress and the White House, during Obama's first two years). One of them they didn't accomplish and the other got undone. The rest is playing defense.
Mr. B wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:07 am
I agree that the leadership focus on Wall Street, etc. and anywhere else they can raise big $$ is terrible, but I'm not sure what other options exist in today's world, especially given what would happen politically if they moved much further left. Of course they can and should do a lot more for the working class. But I disagree with you when you say they haven't tried or done anything specific.
It's not whether there's anything specific--it's whether there's anything big or transformative. Clintonism was about negative transformation--lining up with the Republicans to shrink the parts of government that served people. He changed the Democratic Party for the worse.

Bernie Sanders proved you can run a big campaign on small donations. He made an agreement with small donors--you back me and I won't sell you out. Bill Clinton couldn't, I don't think, make a promise like that. His tongue would catch on fire or his dick and balls would retract into his groin or something.

So the first job is building Democrats who can say that and not get laughed off the stage. I wish I had a quick fix for a party that's rotted from the insides. The start is taking advantage of momentum once The Mummy and The Cop win and doing something that makes people dream big.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

John A Arkansawyer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

Another path to a solution is reawakening your political imagination. Something which must be done stimulates the ability to do. As Frank Zappa tells us, "Necessity is the mother of invention, and the Mothers of Invention are my band!" Here's a doable, difficult thing:
But in the years since I wrote New York 2140, I learned more about the central banks and realized that nationalizing the banks, which happens in 2140, wouldn’t be going far enough. It would be great if all banks were owned by the people, and if banks were not private profit-making enterprises, that would be great — but it would only be one step along the way; it would not be enough. Because, at this point, central banks are only concerned with stabilizing money and maybe helping employment levels, and they will not do anything else unless they are under enormous pressure. They need to be changed, and that’s a lot of what this novel’s about.

Changing the way we regard money, that would be a step toward post-capitalism right there. If money was created from scratch but not given to the banks to loan to whatever they wanted but given to decarbonization projects first, then flowing out into the general economy — the first spending money by governments, which make money in the first place, would be targeted toward decarbonization efforts. This strikes me as a good idea, a necessary idea.

Because saving the biosphere doesn’t make a profit in the capitalist order, we will never do it, and we are therefore doomed. So a very fundamental reform of how we regard money itself is absolutely necessary. I’m saying that a post-capitalist political economy that regards money as created for the public good and is spent on that first — and then trickles into the general economy — is a fundamental shift, and without it, we’re in terrible trouble.
Begin by assuming the people who tell you things can't be changed are lying to protect their interests and go from there.
John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:31 am
This interview is full of hope for the near future:

Imagining the End of Capitalism With Kim Stanley Robinson
So law, justice, post-capitalism, women’s rights, post-patriarchy — all these things could be defined as forms of geoengineering, and at that point, the term kind of falls apart. What we’re really talking about is civilization, as such, as a form of biosphere management. So this is what I’m going out there with over and over on this point, because there’s too much hardening of positions, and these positions are being taken on the basis of the situation as it existed in about 1980 or maybe 1990. The positions are behind the curve of the realities. So, as a leftist science fiction writer, it’s my responsibility to be politically incorrect in provocative ways.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

chuckrh wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:55 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:37 pm
John A drops a truth bomb. You’re my boy, John A.

Chuck, aren’t you in Seattle? Y’all have had your fist on the fool button up there for months now and you think you have room to condescend to the South and the Midwest? That’s hilarious.
I'm looking to get out but difficult with the pandemic & my health issues. I've written here that nazi liberals are the worst. I just don't understand the striving to live a past that doesn't exist any more. As much as I didn't care for Hilary, I sure would rather have her in charge during the pandemic. The bunch that are in power now are blatantly criminal. I don't see how you all can buy the bullshit from that side. The days of "Leave it to Beaver" are gone for good. My main concern is the health care system as it is something I have to deal with every day. It's a bad joke now unless you are rich to the point of being immoral. The people who are against having system like the rest of the civilized world haven't had anything major go wrong. All so that the rich can increase their wealth. One example: some drugs that I need & pay $80 a month for now would cost me $800 a month under 1 Medicare supplement plan I was presented with. That's just one. I might as well blow my brains out now as I won't be able to live with any sort of quality under those conditions. I was for Bernie Sanders & how the media & democrats treated him was deplorable. He was the only 1 that to me was pro human & not just keeping the status quo. I have a lot of international friends & the US is looked at as a bad joke now. The corporate overlords have sold us out all in the name of stock price. If you have any kids, best have them take lessons in Chinese.
Well we agree on some things. How corrupt the thugs who run this country are for starters. And Good Ol Blue Collar Joe from Scranton ain’t gonna help in regard to the Chinese. I’m not telling you that you should go vote for Orange Man.
I’m just saying Grey Man is a corporatist turd of the first order.

This is at least the third time I’ve seen you reference your belief in a conservative desire to go back to the days of Leave It To Beaver. All I can tell you is that if that means not making stupid things like defund the police and let the rioters get it out of their system actual considerations for what we should do in this country then I’m guilty as charged. But that idea is mostly more stereotyping and projecting on your part combined with a pretty clear lacking in understanding both those who aren’t like you and places that you have either never been or have just never made any real effort to understand. Look I’ve never been to Seattle. I have no desire to ever go. But I don’t have some strange idea that what is good for rural Georgia is going to work in Seattle as they are radically different places. I don’t know why you think The South and Midwest should be more like where you live especially considering you admit that you want out. Pretty arrogant on your part and indicative of a lack of understanding. Not everybody wants to live the way you live. Not every place is like the places you are used to and prefer. I don’t know when we started thinking everybody and every place is in this country is supposed to be the same.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

chuckrh
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:51 am
chuckrh wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:55 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:37 pm
John A drops a truth bomb. You’re my boy, John A.

Chuck, aren’t you in Seattle? Y’all have had your fist on the fool button up there for months now and you think you have room to condescend to the South and the Midwest? That’s hilarious.
I'm looking to get out but difficult with the pandemic & my health issues. I've written here that nazi liberals are the worst. I just don't understand the striving to live a past that doesn't exist any more. As much as I didn't care for Hilary, I sure would rather have her in charge during the pandemic. The bunch that are in power now are blatantly criminal. I don't see how you all can buy the bullshit from that side. The days of "Leave it to Beaver" are gone for good. My main concern is the health care system as it is something I have to deal with every day. It's a bad joke now unless you are rich to the point of being immoral. The people who are against having system like the rest of the civilized world haven't had anything major go wrong. All so that the rich can increase their wealth. One example: some drugs that I need & pay $80 a month for now would cost me $800 a month under 1 Medicare supplement plan I was presented with. That's just one. I might as well blow my brains out now as I won't be able to live with any sort of quality under those conditions. I was for Bernie Sanders & how the media & democrats treated him was deplorable. He was the only 1 that to me was pro human & not just keeping the status quo. I have a lot of international friends & the US is looked at as a bad joke now. The corporate overlords have sold us out all in the name of stock price. If you have any kids, best have them take lessons in Chinese.
Well we agree on some things. How corrupt the thugs who run this country are for starters. And Good Ol Blue Collar Joe from Scranton ain’t gonna help in regard to the Chinese. I’m not telling you that you should go vote for Orange Man.
I’m just saying Grey Man is a corporatist turd of the first order.

This is at least the third time I’ve seen you reference your belief in a conservative desire to go back to the days of Leave It To Beaver. All I can tell you is that if that means not making stupid things like defund the police and let the rioters get it out of their system actual considerations for what we should do in this country then I’m guilty as charged. But that idea is mostly more stereotyping and projecting on your part combined with a pretty clear lacking in understanding both those who aren’t like you and places that you have either never been or have just never made any real effort to understand. Look I’ve never been to Seattle. I have no desire to ever go. But I don’t have some strange idea that what is good for rural Georgia is going to work in Seattle as they are radically different places. I don’t know why you think The South and Midwest should be more like where you live especially considering you admit that you want out. Pretty arrogant on your part and indicative of a lack of understanding. Not everybody wants to live the way you live. Not every place is like the places you are used to and prefer. I don’t know when we started thinking everybody and every place is in this country is supposed to be the same.
The basis is those states have shown pretty much unwavering support for the Republican party no matter what & Trump carried in the electoral college last election. Of course there are some outside of those parameters. Clearly, the majority of the country felt the same way as I do & the only reason Trump got in was the antiquated system with the electoral college. It makes no sense. We're never going to agree. I have been to the south more than once & someone I'm very close to is from Georgia. She feels the same way I do. Trump was clearly a con man & those states got snookered. In the "good old days", he would've been convicted of treason on the basis of his dealings with the Russians & the Chinese. Especially the Russians. Our beloved corporations have sold out the country to those parties also. Basically our main industry is all war related as we've let everything else go in service of the stock market. Historically, its the last gasp of a dying empire. When I was young I had hoped we would be past that mindset. Naive on my part. & yes I know Biden is owned by big banking & Wall Street. Again, just the lesser of 2 evils. Anyone who truly wants to make changes & not service the status quo is put down with propaganda that would make Goebbels proud. I mean look, the current regime literally had concentration camps (Babies in Cages). What's next, the return of slavery? I could go on about how most of the country is trapped in a well crafted plan to keep them in debt for their entire adult life. Luckily I had an awakening & eschew debt. If I can't afford something, I don't need it. I'm actually surprised that we're not at war yet. That's the next step if the Republicans rule the day. Nothing like a good police action to stimulate the economy. It's madness. & a lot of the country just doesn't care as long as they have their big screen tv & trip to Appleby's once a week. I've very jaded about the whole system & have lost faith in the populace for the most part. & the far left is just as bad as the far right in a lot of ways. The middle part of the left is eminently more reasonable than the equivalent on the right though. Much more interested in people than corporations. I don't have the energy to argue. You keep spouting your bullshit & I'll keep spouting mine.

Mr. B
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Mr. B »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:40 am
Mr. B wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:07 am
Not sure what you mean by "what have democrats done for working people lately."
And that, in a nutshell, is the problem. I gave a specific example--the Tennessee Valley Authority, "a federally owned corporation in the United States created by congressional charter on May 18, 1933, to provide navigation, flood control, electricity generation, fertilizer manufacturing, and economic development to the Tennessee Valley, a region particularly affected by the Great Depression." And I added to what I said, "Find me something in the last forty years on the scale of this". The reason you couldn't is the Democratic Party, under Bill Clinton's leadership, crawled up capitalism's ass to nest.


Well you gave a specific example of something from 100 years ago that greatly improved its community but we live in a vastly different world now (where practically everybody in our country has electricity, running water, cell phones etc.) and it would be downright impossible to do something of that scale. What do you have in mind?
Mr. B wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:07 am
Changing the rules about how overtime must be calculated for hourly workers? Bailing out the Auto Industry? Doing what they can to prevent neo-conservative justices and protecting a woman's right to choose? Constantly attempting to pass a higher minimum wage? (Including, specifically, a proposal introduced in this congressional session to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour.) Fighting against cuts in social programs like Head Start? Attempting to protect the right to vote in the face of opposing attempts to do everything possible to repress free elections, especially for minorities? And I suspect you know much more than I do about how the two parties' are approaching issues relating to the rights of immigrants, but off the top of my head I can think of one that doesn't throw babies in cages.
What of that puts more money is someone's pocket? The overtime rule and the minimum wage (which wasn't raised the last time Democrats controlled Congress and the White House, during Obama's first two years). One of them they didn't accomplish and the other got undone. The rest is playing defense.



You are right in that several of the examples I cited focused on issues other than directly putting more money in someone's pocket. But saving auto jobs put $$ in someone's pocket, including several friends of mine (I grew up in Detroit) who work for the auto industry and had been laid off in 2008 and got their jobs back. Obamacare provided insurance at a much cheaper rate to millions of people (including my brother) and saved them premiums, or at a minimum got them much better and cheaper insurance that prevented future expenses and medical bankruptcies. Head Start provides daycare for people so that they can work, which puts more $$ in their pockets. And you can't blame Obama because Trump rolled back the overtime rules.

What has happened on the minimum wage on a national level is shameful. There are 29 states, covering the vast majority of the American population, with minimum wage laws above the federal level, and I'm guessing those increases arose mostly from the actions of state-level democrats.

Mr. B wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:07 am
I agree that the leadership focus on Wall Street, etc. and anywhere else they can raise big $$ is terrible, but I'm not sure what other options exist in today's world, especially given what would happen politically if they moved much further left. Of course they can and should do a lot more for the working class. But I disagree with you when you say they haven't tried or done anything specific.
It's not whether there's anything specific--it's whether there's anything big or transformative. Clintonism was about negative transformation--lining up with the Republicans to shrink the parts of government that served people. He changed the Democratic Party for the worse.

Bernie Sanders proved you can run a big campaign on small donations. He made an agreement with small donors--you back me and I won't sell you out. Bill Clinton couldn't, I don't think, make a promise like that. His tongue would catch on fire or his dick and balls would retract into his groin or something.

So the first job is building Democrats who can say that and not get laughed off the stage. I wish I had a quick fix for a party that's rotted from the insides. The start is taking advantage of momentum once The Mummy and The Cop win and doing something that makes people dream big.
Agree with you on this, which is why I donated to and supported Bernie. We need a new Democratic party, but somehow need to make it attractive to those millions of people all over the country who hate us Libtards and will vote against the Dems no matter what. Not sure how you do that and I suspect it won't be done in our lifetimes.

beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:51 am
I don’t know why you think The South and Midwest should be more like where you live especially considering you admit that you want out. Pretty arrogant on your part and indicative of a lack of understanding. Not everybody wants to live the way you live. Not every place is like the places you are used to and prefer. I don’t know when we started thinking everybody and every place is in this country is supposed to be the same.
You don't say and I can't infer from what you've written what your views are (and I choose to think the best of my friends until forced to think otherwise) but for sure many people who say things like this appear to be completely unaware that they do the same thing in reverse. It frosts me like very few other things. I consider myself to be a person who does try to understand others, to imagine they ways they live and how that affects their outlook and beliefs and for sure as someone who hates the apparently inexorable homogenization of our culture (which proceeds apace simultaneously w/ our culture's fracturing, which is a puzzling irony for greater minds than mine, but i digress). To make that effort and have it shoved back in my face by folks who spout words like the above as they lecture me about my life, my region and my way of life and as they take extraordinary steps to impose their beliefs and way of life on me drives me right up the fucking wall. I'll tell ya, it's real easy to fall back to tit for tat and general immaturity in those circumstances.* I fight the impulse but don't always win. Greater self-awareness by all parties would be a good start and necessary pre condition to making any progress at all in healing this country and finding a common foundation on which to move forward. I don't see it happening anytime soon.

*When this phenomenon occurs in the context of a clear minority seeking to impose its will on a clear majority by all means necessary it only adds to my anger.** When this occurs as the lecturers take my/our money while pretending to be self sufficient I can go downright nuclear but the basic problem is there even w/out these complicating and blood pressure raising considerations.

**I fully recognize the often well founded fears of variously defined minorities being exposed/subject to the will of the majority and the need to protect those minorities from overreach by the majority which is why these subjects get awfully complicated very fast. It disturbs me that self-described liberals, Democrats, etc do not understand this problem, the issues it raises and the barriers it creates. But once again I digress.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

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pearlbeer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

Cole Younger wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:37 pm
Look I’ve never been to Seattle. I have no desire to ever go.
That's a shame.

Back in the days of business travel I was a frequent visitor to Seattle. It's one of my favorite cities to visit. It is a stunningly beautiful city with great food, beer, music and people. I've walked hundreds of miles in Seattle over the years and never once felt unsafe. Ever.

You are missing out Cole.

Our asshole Lt. Gov here in Texas just called MY city, Austin, "one of the most dangerous cities in the US". This just isn't true at all. I live right in the middle of the city and went for a long walk holding a cold beer at 10pm last night. I never felt unsafe. (When the weed kicked in, I might have experienced a brief bit of unrelated paranoia.) We "defunded" the police by moving about 3% of the budget to services to help the cops do more cop work and less social work. Crime isn't up...it's down or at least steady.

Come visit Austin too, it's a damn fine place.
Love each other, Motherfuckers!

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:34 am
Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:51 am
I don’t know why you think The South and Midwest should be more like where you live especially considering you admit that you want out. Pretty arrogant on your part and indicative of a lack of understanding. Not everybody wants to live the way you live. Not every place is like the places you are used to and prefer. I don’t know when we started thinking everybody and every place is in this country is supposed to be the same.
You don't say and I can't infer from what you've written what your views are (and I choose to think the best of my friends until forced to think otherwise) but for sure many people who say things like this appear to be completely unaware that they do the same thing in reverse. It frosts me like very few other things. I consider myself to be a person who does try to understand others, to imagine they ways they live and how that affects their outlook and beliefs and for sure as someone who hates the apparently inexorable homogenization of our culture (which proceeds apace simultaneously w/ our culture's fracturing, which is a puzzling irony for greater minds than mine, but i digress). To make that effort and have it shoved back in my face by folks who spout words like the above as they lecture me about my life, my region and my way of life and as they take extraordinary steps to impose their beliefs and way of life on me drives me right up the fucking wall. I'll tell ya, it's real easy to fall back to tit for tat and general immaturity in those circumstances.* I fight the impulse but don't always win. Greater self-awareness by all parties would be a good start and necessary pre condition to making any progress at all in healing this country and finding a common foundation on which to move forward. I don't see it happening anytime soon.

*When this phenomenon occurs in the context of a clear minority seeking to impose its will on a clear majority by all means necessary it only adds to my anger.** When this occurs as the lecturers take my/our money while pretending to be self sufficient I can go downright nuclear but the basic problem is there even w/out these complicating and blood pressure raising considerations.

**I fully recognize the often well founded fears of variously defined minorities being exposed/subject to the will of the majority and the need to protect those minorities from overreach by the majority which is why these subjects get awfully complicated very fast. It disturbs me that self-described liberals, Democrats, etc do not understand this problem, the issues it raises and the barriers it creates. But once again I digress.
I’m not sure how much of this is meant for me personally and how much of it is just being stated generally. But I do feel like I have to clarify myself far more than I should have to considering I’ve been participating in this forum about eight years now. Like I the song says, if you don’t know me by now you never will or something.

I don’t know where all this leads but no matter who wins this election I think it will only get worse in the short term.
Last edited by Cole Younger on Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

pearlbeer wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:44 am
Cole Younger wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:37 pm
Look I’ve never been to Seattle. I have no desire to ever go.
That's a shame.

Back in the days of business travel I was a frequent visitor to Seattle. It's one of my favorite cities to visit. It is a stunningly beautiful city with great food, beer, music and people. I've walked hundreds of miles in Seattle over the years and never once felt unsafe. Ever.

You are missing out Cole.

Our asshole Lt. Gov here in Texas just called MY city, Austin, "one of the most dangerous cities in the US". This just isn't true at all. I live right in the middle of the city and went for a long walk holding a cold beer at 10pm last night. I never felt unsafe. (When the weed kicked in, I might have experienced a brief bit of unrelated paranoia.) We "defunded" the police by moving about 3% of the budget to services to help the cops do more cop work and less social work. Crime isn't up...it's down or at least steady.

Come visit Austin too, it's a damn fine place.

I would like to visit Austin. I figure there at least I won’t be put into some sort of category the minute I open my mouth.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

Chuck we really don’t have anything to talk about, man. You hate people like me and clearly think you’re superior in every way. Talking to you is a waste of my damn time.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:25 pm
I’m not sure how much of this is meant for me personally and how much of it is just being stated generally. But I do feel like I have to clarify myself far more than I should have to considering I’ve been participating in this forum about eight years now. Like I the song says, if you don’t know me by now you never will or something.
I thought I was pretty clear that I was talking generally but I see that I was not nearly as clear about that as I should have been. Hey, I knew what I meant :) Sorry about that, man.
Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:25 pm
I don’t know where all this leads but no matter who wins this election I think it will only get worse in the short term.
Agreed.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

chuckrh
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:31 pm
Chuck we really don’t have anything to talk about, man. You hate people like me and clearly think you’re superior in every way. Talking to you is a waste of my damn time.
Your words, not mine

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Clams
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Clams »

Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:27 pm
pearlbeer wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:44 am
Cole Younger wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:37 pm
Look I’ve never been to Seattle. I have no desire to ever go.
That's a shame.

Back in the days of business travel I was a frequent visitor to Seattle. It's one of my favorite cities to visit. It is a stunningly beautiful city with great food, beer, music and people. I've walked hundreds of miles in Seattle over the years and never once felt unsafe. Ever.

You are missing out Cole.

Our asshole Lt. Gov here in Texas just called MY city, Austin, "one of the most dangerous cities in the US". This just isn't true at all. I live right in the middle of the city and went for a long walk holding a cold beer at 10pm last night. I never felt unsafe. (When the weed kicked in, I might have experienced a brief bit of unrelated paranoia.) We "defunded" the police by moving about 3% of the budget to services to help the cops do more cop work and less social work. Crime isn't up...it's down or at least steady.

Come visit Austin too, it's a damn fine place.

I would like to visit Austin. I figure there at least I won’t be put into some sort of category the minute I open my mouth.
Cole, I think you're wrong on this one. I've had some really good times while visiting some very red places and I'm pretty sure the locals could detect my eastern bones and accent from a mile away. Visiting places and interacting with others goes a long way towards understanding how and why people think differently than where we're from, and that goes for wherever you're from and whatever side of the political aisle you're on. Plus you'll miss out on some really cool places if you skip towns and states based on politics.
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Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

Clams I agree with what you and others are saying. I don’t decide to not visit any place that doesn’t align with me politically. I just have no desire to go there or Portland. And that is based on what those two locations have turned into in the past few months. Minneapolis too. Boston on the other hand I very much want to visit. Already been to NYC. And I’ve been to California a couple of times, lived there for a little bit, and want to go back. Y’all are taking what I said about one town and thinking it is my m.o. when it comes to any location where I am in the minority politically or some other way and that isn’t the case.

Think about it y’all. If that was the way I thought, why would I be here where I am the only one of my kind? Why would I come to these Homecomings and hang around with an meet people and make friends with folks who all have a different view on politics than me and who are just about all from places that are much different from where I come from if I was that sort of person? When Seattle takes their fist off the fool button or if they do, that might be a different story. Until then I’ll pass. But it ain’t the way y’all seem to think it is.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

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pearlbeer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:40 pm
Clams I agree with what you and others are saying. I don’t decide to not visit any place that doesn’t align with me politically. I just have no desire to go there or Portland. And that is based on what a few city blocks in those two locations have turned into in the past few months.
Cole - took the liberty of editing your statement for improved factual accuracy. If you don't believe me, there are a few songs on The New OK written by a Portland resident that can provide additional context.
Love each other, Motherfuckers!

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

pearlbeer wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:22 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:40 pm
Clams I agree with what you and others are saying. I don’t decide to not visit any place that doesn’t align with me politically. I just have no desire to go there or Portland. And that is based on what a few city blocks in those two locations have turned into in the past few months.
Cole - took the liberty of editing your statement for improved factual accuracy. If you don't believe me, there are a few songs on The New OK written by a Portland resident that can provide additional context.
Fair enough. But the broader point remains that I’m not the kind of guy who chooses to only associate with people like me or to go to places where I think most people are like me and my own actions relative to this place reflect that. Also, this conversation started when I spoke up in response to chuck taking a giant shit on two rather large regions of the country based on their not doing as he thinks they should. That seems to have gotten lost in all this.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

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