The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

This forum is for talking about non-music-related stuff that the DBT fanbase might be interested in. This is not the place for inside jokes and BS. Take that crap to some other board.

Moderators: Jonicont, mark lynn, Maluca3, Tequila Cowboy, BigTom, CooleyGirl, olwiggum

User avatar
Clams
Posts: 14850
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:16 pm
Location: City of Brotherly Love

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Clams »

I've become pretty hardened by the bad things that happen in the political sphere over the past few years so it really takes a lot to shock me nowadays. Things happen regularly that never could have happened just 10 years ago. But what happened this week in Tennessee is especially egregious. To disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of voters over a rational protest of a legitimate (to say the least) issue, and that's before you even consider the racial component. It's sickening. I'm at a loss.
Everyone needs a friend, everyone needs a fuck

User avatar
cortez the killer
Posts: 15455
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:22 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

Clams wrote:
Sat Apr 08, 2023 10:43 am
I've become pretty hardened by the bad things that happen in the political sphere over the past few years so it really takes a lot to shock me nowadays. Things happen regularly that never could have happened just 10 years ago. But what happened this week in Tennessee is especially egregious. To disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of voters over a rational protest of a legitimate (to say the least) issue, and that's before you even consider the racial component. It's sickening. I'm at a loss.
Image
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
- DPM

beantownbubba
Posts: 21745
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Clams wrote:
Sat Apr 08, 2023 10:43 am
I've become pretty hardened by the bad things that happen in the political sphere over the past few years so it really takes a lot to shock me nowadays. Things happen regularly that never could have happened just 10 years ago. But what happened this week in Tennessee is especially egregious. To disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of voters over a rational protest of a legitimate (to say the least) issue, and that's before you even consider the racial component. It's sickening. I'm at a loss.
Retaining a capacity for outrage is important, wherever one stands on the political spectrum. At the end of the day, it's probably the only real check on the excesses of the powerful. But no question that self preservation in the modern age requires way more judicious tapping of that outrage in order to avoid burnout, paralyzing (as opposed to healthy) cynicism and who knows what psychological disorders. I'm glad that you still have that capacity for outrage and that this incident in particular sparked it because it is truly egregious.

if I may digress, the happenings in TN, especially the apparent likelihood that the expelled reps will be reappointed, is of a piece with other recent developments like the Supreme Court election in Wi and the continuing uproar and move/counter-move arising from the Dobbs anti abortion decision. What unites them is Republican extremism which is itself reflective of fear, panic and confusion. Some are realizing, perhaps for the first time, how out of step their views are with the majority of their fellow citizens. And i get that fear and confusion and more or less understand the panic. But to understate the case considerably, the actions that fear and panic lead to are not constructive and are, and will continue to, accelerate their marginalization.

It takes great leadership, foresight and courage among other rare skills to figure all this out in real time in a way that maintains the possibility of success and those words will never be applied to the likes of Kevin McCarthy, Elise Stefanik, MTG, Donald Trump, Jim Jordan and the rest with the possible exception of Mitch McConnell, but McConnell lacks other important skills (including, i think, the desire and energy at this point in his career) which prevent him from providing the leadership and direction that he otherwise might.

And to digress from my digression, imho Ron DeSantis continues to prove that he's not up to the task on an almost daily basis. He also regularly provides evidence of my long-held view that admission to, attendance at and graduation from elite universitiesk and professional schools are by themselves scant evidence of intelligence. The guy is not as stupid as Trump, but he is no intellectual giant.

Edited to add "courage"
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

User avatar
cortez the killer
Posts: 15455
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:22 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sat Apr 08, 2023 1:02 pm
And to digress from my digression, imho Ron DeSantis continues to prove that he's not up to the task on an almost daily basis. He also regularly provides evidence of my long-held view that admission to, attendance at and graduation from elite universitiesk and professional schools are by themselves scant evidence of intelligence. The guy is not as stupid as Trump, but he is no intellectual giant.
A-fuckin'-men, bubba. As someone who works at and attended what are considered to be elite academic institutions, I couldn't agree more with your sentiment. "Oh, you went to Hahvahd? Then you must be smaht/special." Fuck that shit. While there are some truly intelligent, creative and special people that are products or graduates of said institutions, it is a silly oversimplification to assume all graduates of those types of schools are such people. There still exists many backdoors (athletic prowess, wealth, cronyism, nepotism and the like) that dilutes the pool. Also, power and money will corrupt the most capable and able of men. So, at the the end of the day, where you went to college means little to nothing. Who are you as a person and what do you stand for?
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
- DPM

User avatar
Tequila Cowboy
Site Admin
Posts: 20230
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:12 pm
Location: The Twilight Zone, along with everyone else

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Thoughts and prayers time again. Five dead, six wounded in Louisville. Anyone want to place odds on whether it was an AR15. Pretty sure these were adults and since killing nine year olds is ok, less than nothing will happen. 🤬
We call him Scooby Do, but Scooby doesn’t do. Scooby, is not involved

User avatar
pearlbeer
Posts: 1444
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:56 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:45 am
Thoughts and prayers time again. Five dead, six wounded in Louisville. Anyone want to place odds on whether it was an AR15. Pretty sure these were adults and since killing nine year olds is ok, less than nothing will happen. 🤬
Nothing will happen, and it will happen again and nothing will happen again.

Over the past decade, I've been a very active participant in the fight for more gun control. Marches, money, letters and calls to elected officials. It has been my primary voting issue. But, I stand defeated. In a country with 100MM more guns than citizens, and no meaningful legislation under discussion, I feel this issue is lost. It will be up to the next (or the next) generation to address this issue.
Love each other, Motherfuckers!

beantownbubba
Posts: 21745
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

pearlbeer wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:48 pm
Tequila Cowboy wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:45 am
Thoughts and prayers time again. Five dead, six wounded in Louisville. Anyone want to place odds on whether it was an AR15. Pretty sure these were adults and since killing nine year olds is ok, less than nothing will happen. 🤬
Nothing will happen, and it will happen again and nothing will happen again.

Over the past decade, I've been a very active participant in the fight for more gun control. Marches, money, letters and calls to elected officials. It has been my primary voting issue. But, I stand defeated. In a country with 100MM more guns than citizens, and no meaningful legislation under discussion, I feel this issue is lost. It will be up to the next (or the next) generation to address this issue.
The "clue" was that asshole from TN, I forget if it was the governor or a senator, who said "There's nothing we can do". Say WHAT? That is too fucked up for words. And then, of course, there are those who propose insane solutions like turning schools into armed camps.

But the central question remains what it's always been: Why the crazy, knee jerk, intransigent insistence on the absolute right to buy, own, use and carry weapons? Only a very, very small percentage of anti-gun activists want to completely ban any class of gun or all of them. Most people (including non-activists) want "reasonable" gun control. People can differ on "reasonable" but "none" sure ain't it. This attitude doesn't come from the language of the 2nd Amendment, even the 2nd Amendment as currently interpreted, the history of this country, the histoy of the NRA or any other damn reason that I can discern other than the "slippery slope" argument which has no basis in reality.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

beantownbubba
Posts: 21745
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

I know it's neither news or particularly insightful, but boy is Kevin McCarthy a fucking moron. That he is considered to be a leader of the US government, and is given the usual deference such a leader ordinarily receives, is embarrassing. His speech to the financial community this morning was just absurd. Who does he think he's fooling by speaking out of both sides of his mouth while saying nothing?

And what the heck is with this Republican whining point that President Joe is unfair and unreasonable by not negotiating the debt ceiling "in good faith"? For the Republicans attempting to hold the country hostage by threatening to default on legitimately incurred debt to talk about good faith is just ridiculous and their righteous indignation about how "it's not fair" would embarrass a 10 year old. How do they come up w/ this stuff? How do they mouth it w/ a straight face?
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

User avatar
Clams
Posts: 14850
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:16 pm
Location: City of Brotherly Love

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Clams »

beantownbubba wrote:
Mon Apr 17, 2023 6:03 pm
How do they mouth it w/ a straight face?
practice makes perfect
Everyone needs a friend, everyone needs a fuck

beantownbubba
Posts: 21745
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

If there was ever any doubt about whether "guns kill people" (as opposed to "people kill people") events this week ought to end that debate.

Young people are dead or seriously injured because there are too many guns in too many of the wrong hands. And for "wrong hands" read "just about everybody's hands." In any normal country there is absolutely zero chance that Kaylin Gillis and 2 cheerleaders in TX would be dead today or that Ralph Yarl would be recovering (hopefully) from a gunshot wound to the head. The losses and the pain they leave behind are unimaginable; the cause of those losses and that pain is absurd beyond belief. And yet...
Last edited by beantownbubba on Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

beantownbubba
Posts: 21745
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Oooops: Mike LIndell (the my pillow guy) challenged anyone to prove he did not have evidence of Chinese interference in the 2020 election and offered $5M to anyone who could. Somebody did. Unsurprisingly, Lindell refused to pay. An arbitration panel just ordered him to pay. Mike Lindell...Alex Jones...Fox News...increasing numbers of 1/6 criminals in prison...the piper is finally being paid, at least a little bit. Trump of course remains the big white whale but however that goes I'm pretty sure that Rudy G. and others will be collateral damage along the way. We'll just have to wait and see.

Oh, btw, the guy who won the $5 million voted for Trump. Twice.

And now there are rumors of bipartisan support for a bill that would require the Supreme Court to establish ethical rules that would apply to the Justices.

While it's way too early to count him out, Ron DeSantis's star continues to fade as he hopefully moves from future has been to real time never was. He can't seem to find the sweet spot between actual conservatism and extremism and the conservatives w/ the money are getting restless.

Except for a few killings and shootings (and let's not forget the continuing wars in Ukraine and against our climate), not a bad day.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

Zip City
Posts: 17313
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:59 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

DeSantis has made it so that it’s is no longer safe for my trans child to visit their grandparents in Florida.
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

beantownbubba
Posts: 21745
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Zip City wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2023 1:59 pm
DeSantis has made it so that it’s is no longer safe for my trans child to visit their grandparents in Florida.
That is a sad state of affairs for sure and totally in keeping w/ DeSantis's bullying personality, including beating up on the defenseless.

But if we're talking unsafe, let us consider that come July in Florida, home of Florida man lest you've forgotten, it will be legal for ANYONE to carry concealed weapons including but not limited to handguns WITHOUT a license, training or a background check. I suppose that in today's media-verse and political desert this barely causes a ripple, but I think it's absolutely insane.

Shall we bet on the over/under of the number of stories about "mistaken" or "accidental" shootings of grannies, kids, trans people and other defenseless folk coming out of FL in the year after this law goes into effect? Not to mention fatal road rage or bar fight incidents. Can you say FUBAR?

Zip, the combination of DeSantis's outrageous culture war against the disfavored harmless when added to the gun situation there says to me that your family is much better off elsewhere.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

Zip City
Posts: 17313
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:59 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

Add in that it is now legal for any Floridian to kidnap my child if they suspect that they are receiving gender-affirming care (which they are)
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

User avatar
cortez the killer
Posts: 15455
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:22 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:18 am
If there was ever any doubt about whether "guns kill people" (as opposed to "people kill people") events this week ought to end that debate.

Young people are dead or seriously injured because there are too many guns in too many of the wrong hands. And for "wrong hands" read "just about everybody's hands." In any normal country there is absolutely zero chance that Kaylin Gillis and 2 cheerleaders in TX would be dead today or that Ralph Yarl would be recovering (hopefully) from a gunshot wound to the head. The losses and the pain they leave behind are unimaginable; the cause of those losses and that pain is absurd beyond belief. And yet...
You can add having your basketball accidentally rolling into someone's yard as grounds for being shot at.
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
- DPM

beantownbubba
Posts: 21745
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Zip City wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:01 pm
Add in that it is now legal for any Floridian to kidnap my child if they suspect that they are receiving gender-affirming care (which they are)
:shock:

Amazing, isn't it that parents apparently know what books their kids should read, what and when they should be taught about sex and sexuality and what they should be taught about history but when it comes to their own kids' sexuality, apparently parents know nothing so the nanny state "must" swoop in. Pointing out the never ending hypocrisies got boring and pointless a long time ago, but it feels like the pace has increased.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

beantownbubba
Posts: 21745
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Per conservative columnist Mark Thiessen:

"So, what happens if voters are forced to choose between two candidates they don’t want[Biden and Trump]? A Wall Street Journal poll (conducted by pro-Trump super PAC pollster Tony Fabrizio) suggests the answer: It found that among voters who disapprove of both Trump and Biden, Biden leads Trump by a massive 39 points: 54 percent to 15 percent. Clearly, swing voters who dislike Biden dislike Trump even more."

Right now this is one of Biden's very biggest advantages.



Frank Bruni agrees: Anybody who seriously thinks they should be president should probably not be elected:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/25/opin ... 029039208a

If ever there was a sitting president who should have gracefully exited the stage it was Biden and if even he couldn't see his way there, it's pretty much proof that the trappings/glories/ego gratification of high office are potent poison.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

beantownbubba
Posts: 21745
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

I don't see the point in rehashing the debt ceiling debacle, but I do wonder about this specific piece of it, which I think has hidden costs that will reverberate for years:

Imagine studying American government in high school or college, for the first time learning about the nuts and bolts of how this country is supposed to work and then comparing that to the daily headlines. The cognitive dissonance has got to be overwhelming and my guess is that it leads to great cynicism, lack of belief in institutions and lack of belief in "the American experiment." And without an educated citizenry committed to the long term project and believing in its possibilities, there is no real future. If this counts as "the House doing its job" as Kevin McCarthy said, they should all be fired immediately. It's not just holding the debt ceiling hostage, it's the haphazard, junior high school or 3 Stooges approach to putting together a budget. McCarthy's biggest achievement by far has been his ability to mouth outrageous nonsense w/ a straight face. File under pig, lipstick on.

OTOH, in the small silver lining department, clawing back unused covid funds from the states seems like a reasonable thing to do. I guess that's an example of even a stopped clock being right twice a day, but I'm grasping for straws here.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

beantownbubba
Posts: 21745
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

It is way, way too early to write off anyone and no doubt there will be many changes of fortune between now and November 2024, but still it's pretty amazing how quickly Ron DeSantis went from next big thing to never was. He's fully earned his newfound obscurity but the speed w/ which it happened is breathtaking. The world at internet speed.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

John A Arkansawyer
Posts: 7894
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 9:51 am
Location: Little Rock, Arkansaw
Contact:

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:43 am
Per conservative columnist Mark Thiessen:

"So, what happens if voters are forced to choose between two candidates they don’t want[Biden and Trump]?
Why do I care what a conservative columnist thinks about a successful liberal president?
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

beantownbubba
Posts: 21745
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 3:09 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:43 am
Per conservative columnist Mark Thiessen:

"So, what happens if voters are forced to choose between two candidates they don’t want[Biden and Trump]?
Why do I care what a conservative columnist thinks about a successful liberal president?
I have no idea. But that's not the point of the column or my reason for citing it. It's a conservative columnist warning conservatives that it is very possible that Biden won't just beat Trump head to head, it might not even be a close contest. Considering that Trump is the Republican/conservative frontrunner that seems to me to be worth a minute's consideration. Or looked at differently, the polling that underlies the opinion is an interesting factoid.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

John A Arkansawyer
Posts: 7894
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 9:51 am
Location: Little Rock, Arkansaw
Contact:

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 5:34 pm
John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 3:09 pm
Why do I care what a conservative columnist thinks about a successful liberal president?
I have no idea. But that's not the point of the column or my reason for citing it. It's a conservative columnist warning conservatives that it is very possible that Biden won't just beat Trump head to head, it might not even be a close contest. Considering that Trump is the Republican/conservative frontrunner that seems to me to be worth a minute's consideration. Or looked at differently, the polling that underlies the opinion is an interesting factoid.
But that was followed up by a complaint on the left from someone unhappy that Biden was running again. I myself am satisfied that a if a better candidate existed, he or she would have been the nominee in 2020.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

User avatar
brettac1
Posts: 822
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:33 am
Location: Birnamwood, WI
Contact:

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by brettac1 »

I wish I shared the author's optimism.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/05 ... alism.html
Do you ever get tired of singin' songs
Like all your pain is just another fuckin' sing along?

beantownbubba
Posts: 21745
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

brettac1 wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 1:29 pm
I wish I shared the author's optimism.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/05 ... alism.html
I didn't get all the way through (yet?) but it seemed to me that what he's saying is that "neoliberalism" is dead and "Bidenism" is its replacement in a very small slice of Washington and less in government than in think tanks, among talking heads and the like. Sometimes ideas spread from there, see, e.g., well, neoliberalism and the various nefarious doings of the Federalist Society, but it's no sure thing and by the time I gave up he hadn't made that case.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

User avatar
cortez the killer
Posts: 15455
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:22 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

Image
"The job is not worth doing for what they pay," Thomas said during a speech in 2001, The New York Post reported at the time. "The job is not worth doing for the grief. But it is worth doing for the principle."
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
- DPM

beantownbubba
Posts: 21745
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

cortez the killer wrote:
Fri May 05, 2023 1:00 pm
But it is worth doing for the principle.
We are all human beings which means we are all flawed, all fall short of perfection or, really, anything close to it. But it seems to me that when one reaches the highest peaks of power, influence and success and especially when one has a lifetime appointment, one ought to at least try to live up to the highest standards/expectations/goals and, you know, principles. At the very least one ought not to use one's privileged position as a license to print money and to treat the public for whom one works with "let 'em eat cake" type disdain. While Trump set the "standard" for using public office for profit, Thomas is a Supreme Court Justice, which ought to mean something.

And we must also ask, whatever happened to John Roberts? For someone who proclaims himself to be an "institutionalist" he's sure letting his institution run into the ground. Sad.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

beantownbubba
Posts: 21745
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

cortez the killer wrote:
Fri May 05, 2023 1:00 pm
But it is worth doing for the principle
Mike Pence weighs in:

"“I stand with Justice Clarence Thomas and call on every American to join me in defending this good man and principled jurist,”

In case you were wondering why Mike Pence will never be president.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

beantownbubba
Posts: 21745
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

It feels a lot like beating a dead horse (which I acknowledge is an unfortunate metaphor after this week's events at Churchill Downs) but sometimes silence feels almost criminal.

I think at this point it is safe to say that those who are "second amendment absolutists" or anything close to it are being willful. Willfully in denial or willfully ignorant. Probably more denial than ignorance but I'm sure it varies by individual. How anyone can look at the carnage across America and not think that either the prevalence of guns and their easy availability are part of the problem or that at the very least we need to try something different than crossing our fingers and hoping for the best (aka "thoughts and prayers") is simply beyond me. The shakiness of the constitutional argument in favor of "absolutism" makes this willfulness a horrible, unjustifiable and maybe even immoral decision. Add to this the shocking cynicism and irresponsibility of the current flavor of the month, blaming it all on the mentally ill while voting to cut medical, housing and mental health services and yeah, immoral seems pretty fitting.

While I don't listen to the apologists, I do get the impression that they are finding their arguments increasingly untenable at least to the extent that I see headlines/links to stories about the apologists blowing up or becoming flustered when interviewed on the subject.

But even so it seems that we're still far from the necessary momentum to do something useful. How many [more] times must the cannonballs fly before they're forever banned?
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

beantownbubba
Posts: 21745
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

First a little background: When I was in law school, we quickly learned that "the man" when it came to constitutional law was Laurence Tribe. At the time he was still more or less the young phenom or wunderkind rounding the turn to presiding oracle on the way to eminence grise. If you had a case or a position to argue, citing Larry Tribe in favor of your position was about as close as one could get to a slam dunk. Even at that age he had already literally written the book on constitutional law. Over the years, his position at the top of the tree never faltered. He was and is consulted by anyone who's anyone and frequently writes for the NYT, WaPo and other general interest publications in addition to his professional writings. Compare and contrast to, say, Alan Dershowitz who for a time had a similar though not quite as golden a reputation as Tribe but is now mostly considered to be a joke.

The linked article below is apparently available despite the usual NYT paywall.

Tribe argues that it is the president's constitutional duty to pay the nation's debts and congress can't and shouldn't as a matter of policy stop him. Tribe has only recently come around to this POV and he has found a neat argument which avoids the most expansive views of presidential power and the more emotional approaches one sometimes sees about this subject. Obviously I agree with his conclusion. I'm not sure he had to thread his way so narrowly in order to get there but the point is he got there and the very narrowness of his path provides instant credibility of exactly the kind Tribe has generated his entire career. Tribe has influence over only a very small audience but it tends to be a pretty powerful one. Can he sway the debate by himself? Of course not. Can he push the wavering towards the correct side of the line? Very possibly. I can guarantee he will be quoted a lot between now and "default day."

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/07/opin ... 029039208a
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

beantownbubba
Posts: 21745
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Worst headline ever? And my response to the editor responsible:

"The heading on my email says "How to survive a mass shooting society." I'm sorry but that's too much, too far and waaaay too irresponsible. I mean seriously, THAT is where you're at? THAT is the message you want to convey to the reading public? ACCOMMODATING mass shootings? Giving up on doing anything about them? This may be the worst thing you've ever published. I'm literally nauseous and absolutely furious. You have a position of responsibility that goes beyond generating eye-catching headlines or clicks. I believe you owe your reading public an apology and a retraction. Either step up and do your job or get out of the way."

This one really got to me.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

Post Reply