The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Swamp »

Political science vs political selfishness.
There are no statues of, or schools named after the Dakota 38.....Just saying.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Swamp wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:58 am
Political science vs political selfishness.
More swamp, please.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

I think this brings together a lot of what's been said and implied above in a very effective way.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/26/opin ... d4a453c14e
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

Remembering the Origins of the United States’ 20 Year War in Afghanistan

Josh Marshall reminds us it wasn't just Bush, not just "what we might call militarist unilateralists, people like Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney. It was hawkish and internationalist Democrats who were saying you can’t just blow everything up and then leave or you’ll have to go back again."
In looking at the history of President Biden’s aversion to the US garrisoning of Afghanistan, I’ve repeatedly mentioned his experience watching then-President Obama get rolled by the Pentagon into supporting the Afghanistan “surge” during his first term. Biden opposed it; Obama was convinced. It’s worth remembering how massive a decision this was. Through 2002 and 2003 there were scarcely more than 10,000 US and NATO troops in Afghanistan. Over the course of Bush’s presidency that number crept up toward around 30,000. In 2010/2011 ‘surge’ era that number reached as high as almost 100,000. This LA Times infographic captures the story through through 2014 …
Image
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Swamp »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:40 am
Swamp wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:58 am
Political science vs political selfishness.
More swamp, please.
Are you sure?
There are no statues of, or schools named after the Dakota 38.....Just saying.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Swamp wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:51 am
beantownbubba wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:40 am
Swamp wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:58 am
Political science vs political selfishness.
More swamp, please.
Are you sure?
Wasn't it Voltaire who said I may not always understand what Swamp says but I will defend with my life his right to say it and my right to enjoy it?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

I am beside myself. The NYT today published a prominent article the fundamental assumption of which is that Florida did a great job of handling the virus originally so why is it in such trouble today? Say WHAT???!!! The NY Times doesn't always get it right. But rarely do they get it so wrong, so counter to reality. And the consequences of this, to the extent it supports DeSantis's rewriting of history and responsibility avoidance, could be significant and lasting. What the actual fuck???

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/28/us/f ... riant.html
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

This is intended to be an old fashioned political post, not a covid post. While covid does seem to be the straw that's breaking the camel's back, it sure sounds like MS was headed for disaster anyway and that's what I want to talk about.

It seems clear to me that the current crisis in Mississippi's healthcare system is the result of a long line of deliberate policy choices, actions and failures to act. I mean a virtually third world healthcare system does not evolve in a first world country without a lot of help, and the article clearly points to at least some of the missteps. What I continue to not understand, to totally not fathom, is how Mississippians could let this happen. There are no surprises there. The politicians have done exactly what they've said they're going to do and after each misstep they keep getting re-elected despite the consequences of their actions. So it seems that this is what Mississippians want. But how is that possible?

I'm sure we all remember the Obamacare furor where "everyone" was threatened by the supposed destruction of their existing healthcare plans. Is this the healthcare system people wanted to maintain? Why? What's in it for them?

My default position is that people know what they want and what is best for themselves even if it is not always apparent to others. So, okay, this is what the people of Mississippi want. But can anyone explain why? I am completely mystified.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/29/us/w ... 029039208a
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:21 am
I am beside myself. The NYT today published a prominent article the fundamental assumption of which is that Florida did a great job of handling the virus originally so why is it in such trouble today? Say WHAT???!!! The NY Times doesn't always get it right. But rarely do they get it so wrong, so counter to reality. And the consequences of this, to the extent it supports DeSantis's rewriting of history and responsibility avoidance, could be significant and lasting. What the actual fuck???

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/28/us/f ... riant.html
More than 24 hours later this is still driving me nuts. Just sayin'.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

The Supreme Court's decision to allow the TX anti abortion law to take effect is, to my knowledge, unprecedented. Allowing an arguably unconstitutional (and that's being kind to a statute that was expressly drafted to get around the Constitution) law to go into effect before its constitutionality can be litigated is extraordinary and upends the legal system and the rule of law. This matters way beyond and wholly apart from the abortion context.
Last edited by beantownbubba on Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

the ACLU (or at least two of them who work there; Mr. Cole is the national legal director of the A.C.L.U., and Mr. Mach is the director of its Program on Freedom of Religion and Belief) weigh in on mandated vaccinations (cut/paste due to paywall):
Do vaccine mandates violate civil liberties? Some who have refused vaccination claim as much.

We disagree.

At the A.C.L.U., we are not shy about defending civil liberties, even when they are very unpopular. But we see no civil liberties problem with requiring Covid-19 vaccines in most circumstances.

While the permissibility of requiring vaccines for particular diseases depends on several factors, when it comes to Covid-19, all considerations point in the same direction. The disease is highly transmissible, serious and often lethal; the vaccines are safe and effective; and crucially there is no equally effective alternative available to protect public health.

In fact, far from compromising civil liberties, vaccine mandates actually further civil liberties. They protect the most vulnerable among us, including people with disabilities and fragile immune systems, children too young to be vaccinated and communities of color hit hard by the disease.

Vaccine requirements also safeguard those whose work involves regular exposure to the public, like teachers, doctors and nurses, bus drivers and grocery store employees. And by inoculating people from the disease’s worst effects, the vaccines offer the promise of restoring to all of us our most basic liberties, eventually allowing us to return safely to life as we knew it, in schools and at houses of worship and political meetings, not to mention at restaurants, bars, and gatherings with family and friends.

Here’s why civil liberties objections to Covid vaccine mandates are generally unfounded.

Vaccines are a justifiable intrusion on autonomy and bodily integrity. That may sound ominous, because we all have the fundamental right to bodily integrity and to make our own health care decisions. But these rights are not absolute. They do not include the right to inflict harm on others.

While vaccine mandates are not always permissible, they rarely run afoul of civil liberties when they involve highly infectious and devastating diseases like Covid-19. Although this disease is novel, vaccine mandates are not. Schools, health care facilities, the U.S. military and many other institutions have long required vaccination for contagious diseases like mumps and measles that pose far less risk than the coronavirus does today.

In the United States alone, more than 39 million people have been infected with Covid-19 and more than 600,000 people have died. People with intellectual and physical disabilities are more likely to contract Covid-19, and they have much higher rates of hospitalization and death. Children’s hospitals in Georgia, Louisiana and other states are reporting high admissions of infected patients, and many are running out of beds.

Even though the F.D.A. and independent medical experts have found Covid-19 vaccines to be extremely safe and highly effective, a sizable portion of the eligible population has chosen not to be vaccinated. In this context, Covid-19 vaccine mandates — much like mask mandates — are public health measures necessary to protect people from severe illness and death. They are therefore permissible in many settings where the unvaccinated pose a risk to others, including schools and universities, hospitals, restaurants and bars, workplaces and businesses open to the public.

While limited exceptions are necessary, most people can be required to be vaccinated. Any vaccination mandate should have exceptions for those for whom the vaccine is medically contraindicated, such as people who have allergies to it. The absence of such exceptions would directly undermine the public health goals of a mandate, although other mandatory precautions, like masking, social distancing, regular testing or working remotely, may be appropriate. Where a vaccine is not medically contraindicated, however, avoiding a deadly threat to the public health typically outweighs personal autonomy and individual freedom.

What about those who object to vaccination on religious grounds? Like personal autonomy, religious freedom is an essential right, but not an unfettered license to inflict harm on others. As the Supreme Court explained more than 75 years ago in Prince v. Massachusetts: “The right to practice religion freely does not include liberty to expose the community or the child to communicable disease or the latter to ill health or death.”

In the employment context, federal law requires religious accommodations in some circumstances, but not if they would cause an “undue hardship” to the employer. Refusing a Covid-19 vaccination poses a direct threat to the health and safety of others in the workplace, and likely amounts to an undue hardship unless the employer can devise some other accommodation for the employee, such as working from home.

Some have objected that in practice, vaccine mandates may have disparate effects on disadvantaged communities or individuals. Such concerns need to be taken seriously. But they don’t justify refusals to be vaccinated.

Every effort should be made to ensure that vaccines are equally available to all without obstacles posed by cost, race, immigration status, geography or job responsibilities. Some undocumented people reportedly have been turned away from vaccination sites because they lack a government ID, for instance, while others have confronted obstacles related to cost, transportation or additional requirements imposed by vaccination clinics.

Public health officials should take concrete steps to counter vaccine hesitancy among communities of color whose past discriminatory treatment has understandably sown mistrust. Employers imposing mandates should afford workers paid time off as needed to obtain a vaccine and to manage potential side effects. And people should be permitted to offer written proof of vaccination rather than requiring proof via a smartphone app, so as not to disadvantage those who can’t afford a smartphone.

But where vaccines are widely available, equity concerns actually argue in favor of vaccine mandates, precisely because disadvantaged communities have been disproportionately harmed by this disease. These are reasons to make the vaccine easier to get, not for opposing vaccine mandates altogether.

The real threat to civil liberties comes from states banning vaccine and mask mandates. Even though most Covid-19 vaccine mandates do not infringe civil liberties, several states, including Florida, Iowa, South Carolina and Texas, have banned vaccine mandates or mask mandates — and sometimes both — in the name of freedom. But these bans directly endanger the public health and make more deaths from the disease inevitable. They trample the rights of the most vulnerable, who want to participate in society without putting their health at grave risk.

We care deeply about civil liberties and civil rights for all — which is precisely why we support vaccine mandates.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:47 am
The Supreme Court's decision to allow the TX anti abortion law to take effect is, to my knowledge, unprecedented. Allowing an arguably unconstitutional (and that's being kind to a statute that was expressly drafted to get around the Constitution) law to go into effect before its constitutionality can be litigated is extraordinary and upends the legal system and the rule of law. This matters way beyond and wholly apart from the abortion context.
Another view. Needless to say, I disagree but I think it's worth reading.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... p_opinions
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

This article captures my sense of things, i.e. that the TX statute is so egregious and so threatening to so many people that it will unleash a level of pro choice activism we've never seen before in this country. Abortion will once again become a "litmus test' for voters and all the energy will be coming from the outraged and threatened pro-choice side. At the very least we will learn for sure what a majority of voters in this country think about abortion rights. I personally suspect that the anti-abortion forces will indeed be sorry they got what they wished for, but either way, I'm pretty sure we'll find out, hopefully definitively.


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ic%20Daily
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:47 am
This article captures my sense of things, i.e. that the TX statute is so egregious and so threatening to so many people that it will unleash a level of pro choice activism we've never seen before in this country. Abortion will once again become a "litmus test' for voters and all the energy will be coming from the outraged and threatened pro-choice side. At the very least we will learn for sure what a majority of voters in this country think about abortion rights. I personally suspect that the anti-abortion forces will indeed be sorry they got what they wished for, but either way, I'm pretty sure we'll find out, hopefully definitively.


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ic%20Daily
Correct, and I'm sort of shocked that the GOP went this far. "We're going to overturn Roe v Wade" has been a "get out the vote" issue since the day SCOTUS decided the case. Now that energy swings to the other side, and the Dems should (though I'm not confident they WILL) beat this drum all the way to election day
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:47 am
This article captures my sense of things, i.e. that the TX statute is so egregious and so threatening to so many people that it will unleash a level of pro choice activism we've never seen before in this country. Abortion will once again become a "litmus test' for voters and all the energy will be coming from the outraged and threatened pro-choice side. At the very least we will learn for sure what a majority of voters in this country think about abortion rights. I personally suspect that the anti-abortion forces will indeed be sorry they got what they wished for, but either way, I'm pretty sure we'll find out, hopefully definitively.


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ic%20Daily
Possibly. But with Joe Biden getting to own the Afghan withdrawal catastrophe whether he deserves it or not while saying the buck stops with him then saying he did a great job I’m not sure democrat outrage over this is going to have the umph that you describe here. Biden is a disaster for the democrats. Nobody much to the right of center left is going to give much of an ear to how bad the republicans are with him falling up the stairs literally and figuratively and then patting himself on the back as Americans bury their kids. They wanted this turd and now they have him. It has gotten bad enough now that not many people are looking when fingers get pointed at something else.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Cole Younger wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:41 pm
I’m not sure democrat outrage over this is going to have the umph that you describe here.
I don't pretend to know, I'm just guessing. But just to be clear my guess is that this will prove to be not a mere "democrat" issue but a full fledged crisis for women of all* political persuasions and the men who care about them. If this is a "democrat" issue then the thesis of the article and my endorsement of it is wrong.

I don't know if it's intentional or just a slip of the keyboard but the use of "democrat" in this context (i.e. using the term instead of the grammatically and literally correct "Democratic" a la Trump and the right wing media refusing to call the Democratic Party by its right name intentionally for the purpose of insult) is surprising and disappointing.

Edit: * And by "all" I mean most. Clearly there is a segment of the population including some women that thinks these kinds of laws are a good thing.
Last edited by beantownbubba on Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

This is sickening. It literally made me nauseous.

Probably the least important problem described in this article is that school buses with "inoperable brakes" are considered to be "in service." Think about that. In what world is that remotely acceptable? Yet it's not even the important part.

And the irony of the Mississippi state government calling the local school board a failure would be funny if it weren't so outrageous, so sad and so damning for the future of generations of kids. "Ma'am the good news is that the Mississippi Dept of Education finally noticed that your kids' schools are atrociously bad and have been failing your kids for decades. The bad news is that those atrocious schools have now been taken over by the Mississippi Dept of Education."

And floating just beneath the surface of all this is the eternal question: Who decided that education must be funded only (mostly) by property taxes?

Read it and weep.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/maga ... Position=1
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

I sure didn't want Biden, but I'm pretty much amazed with the Biden presidency so far. He started out to the left of Obama and kept going, which I didn't think he had in him. He's clawing back some of what the fat fucks of the world have been chiseling out of regular people for decades. And he's been steadfast in owning Afghanistan. If he'd backed down or shown signs of hesitation--but he didn't. The American people wanted out of Afghanistan and Biden delivered. Over time, the bleating of the foreign policy elite, who are always ready to fight a war with someone else's kids, will go away.

Regular people lost faith in the Democratic Party because, starting with Bill Clinton, it stopped making their lives better. Biden seems determined to change that. I'm optimistic.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:37 pm
I sure didn't want Biden, but I'm pretty much amazed with the Biden presidency so far. He started out to the left of Obama and kept going, which I didn't think he had in him. He's clawing back some of what the fat fucks of the world have been chiseling out of regular people for decades. And he's been steadfast in owning Afghanistan. If he'd backed down or shown signs of hesitation--but he didn't. The American people wanted out of Afghanistan and Biden delivered. Over time, the bleating of the foreign policy elite, who are always ready to fight a war with someone else's kids, will go away.

Regular people lost faith in the Democratic Party because, starting with Bill Clinton, it stopped making their lives better. Biden seems determined to change that. I'm optimistic.
totally agree that the Dem party needs to improve the lives of people, and between the infrastructure bill and the pullout it's progress for sure. what did Trump do other than give a tax break that heavily favored the guys he golfs with?

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

tinnitus photography wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:31 pm
John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:37 pm
I sure didn't want Biden, but I'm pretty much amazed with the Biden presidency so far. He started out to the left of Obama and kept going, which I didn't think he had in him. He's clawing back some of what the fat fucks of the world have been chiseling out of regular people for decades. And he's been steadfast in owning Afghanistan. If he'd backed down or shown signs of hesitation--but he didn't. The American people wanted out of Afghanistan and Biden delivered. Over time, the bleating of the foreign policy elite, who are always ready to fight a war with someone else's kids, will go away.

Regular people lost faith in the Democratic Party because, starting with Bill Clinton, it stopped making their lives better. Biden seems determined to change that. I'm optimistic.
totally agree that the Dem party needs to improve the lives of people, and between the infrastructure bill and the pullout it's progress for sure. what did Trump do other than give a tax break that heavily favored the guys he golfs with?
He endorsed people's biases and gripes
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:19 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:41 pm
I’m not sure democrat outrage over this is going to have the umph that you describe here.
I don't pretend to know, I'm just guessing. But just to be clear my guess is that this will prove to be not a mere "democrat" issue but a full fledged crisis for women of all* political persuasions and the men who care about them. If this is a "democrat" issue then the thesis of the article and my endorsement of it is wrong.

I don't know if it's intentional or just a slip of the keyboard but the use of "democrat" in this context (i.e. using the term instead of the grammatically and literally correct "Democratic" a la Trump and the right wing media refusing to call the Democratic Party by its right name intentionally for the purpose of insult) is surprising and disappointing.

Edit: * And by "all" I mean most. Clearly there is a segment of the population including some women that thinks these kinds of laws are a good thing.
Yeah the use of “Democrat” was a matter of my phone thinking that was what I meant. I don’t understand why that bothers democrats but I accept that it does. I also don’t understand why I STILL have to remove all doubt that I don’t typify the worst of what most here fear about conservatives but I accept that I do and always will.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

tinnitus photography wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:31 pm
John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:37 pm
I sure didn't want Biden, but I'm pretty much amazed with the Biden presidency so far. He started out to the left of Obama and kept going, which I didn't think he had in him. He's clawing back some of what the fat fucks of the world have been chiseling out of regular people for decades. And he's been steadfast in owning Afghanistan. If he'd backed down or shown signs of hesitation--but he didn't. The American people wanted out of Afghanistan and Biden delivered. Over time, the bleating of the foreign policy elite, who are always ready to fight a war with someone else's kids, will go away.

Regular people lost faith in the Democratic Party because, starting with Bill Clinton, it stopped making their lives better. Biden seems determined to change that. I'm optimistic.
totally agree that the Dem party needs to improve the lives of people, and between the infrastructure bill and the pullout it's progress for sure. what did Trump do other than give a tax break that heavily favored the guys he golfs with?
My taxes went down. I appreciated getting to keep more of my money. He didn’t tell our allies to fuck off and suddenly pull out and get a bunch of Marines killed and then say he did a great job. He didn’t get on his knees for China.

That’s damning with faint praise and you won’t get much from me in the way of defending Donald Trump. But most of the criticisms I saw of him posted here are descriptions of Joe Biden.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:14 pm
I also don’t understand why I STILL have to remove all doubt that I don’t typify the worst of what most here fear about conservatives but I accept that I do and always will.
Maybe, but this one was my fault. I figured it was probably a typo (as I said in my original post), there's just something about that usage that really does annoy me and I let that get the better of me. I regret that precisely because it does drag us backwards in the way you suggest and I apologize. As to why it annoys Democrats so much, I think it has to do with the way it deliberately uses a particular negative stereotype allegedly held by the intended audience (i.e. Democrats). IOW it deliberately makes the speaker sound unsophisticated and, dare I say it, dumb.
Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:19 pm
He didn’t tell our allies to fuck off
Actually, he did. Over and over again in a variety of contexts.
Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:19 pm
and suddenly pull out and get a bunch of Marines killed and then say he did a great job.
While literally correct, you might want to ask the Kurds whether they see any difference between getting Marines killed and getting Kurdish allies killed. It is not exactly the same thing, but it's in the same ballpark.
Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:19 pm
He didn’t get on his knees for China.
This is a more complex, more murky matter, but I have regularly argued that this is exactly what Trump did, repeatedly. He talked a good game but his actions said something else entirely. But his daughter did get a bunch of trademarks out of it, so there's that.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:34 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:14 pm
I also don’t understand why I STILL have to remove all doubt that I don’t typify the worst of what most here fear about conservatives but I accept that I do and always will.
Maybe, but this one was my fault. I figured it was probably a typo (as I said in my original post), there's just something about that usage that really does annoy me and I let that get the better of me. I regret that precisely because it does drag us backwards in the way you suggest and I apologize. As to why it annoys Democrats so much, I think it has to do with the way it deliberately uses a particular negative stereotype allegedly held by the intended audience (i.e. Democrats). IOW it deliberately makes the speaker sound unsophisticated and, dare I say it, dumb.
Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:19 pm
He didn’t tell our allies to fuck off
Actually, he did. Over and over again in a variety of contexts.
Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:19 pm
and suddenly pull out and get a bunch of Marines killed and then say he did a great job.
While literally correct, you might want to ask the Kurds whether they see any difference between getting Marines killed and getting Kurdish allies killed. It is not exactly the same thing, but it's in the same ballpark.
Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:19 pm
He didn’t get on his knees for China.
This is a more complex, more murky matter, but I have regularly argued that this is exactly what Trump did, repeatedly. He talked a good game but his actions said something else entirely. But his daughter did get a bunch of trademarks out of it, so there's that.
Don’t apologize, man. We’re good. That just frustrates me. When in doubt remember what John A said about me once, “Cole is a good guy. He just words things badly sometimes.” That’s exactly right.

I realize Trump told our allies to fuck off in other instances and I should have made myself more clear but I was talking about the withdrawal specifically.

It’s not that I don’t care about Kurdish deaths. But I care about the deaths of our Marines more. I’ll admit it.

As for what you say about Trump relative to China you might be right but I KNOW Biden does it where maybe Trump did.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

John A Arkansawyer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:14 pm
I don’t understand why that bothers democrats but I accept that it does.
There's a long history behind it, some of it mythological and some of it random usage, so I don't necessarily believe everything in the Wikipedia article on it. I do believe Donald Trump, who is good with words in a bad way, when he says, "The Democratic Party sounds too good so I don't want to use that, OK?...I call it the Democrat Party. It sounds better rhetorically." So that's the first half of it: It's a long-running, low-level insult with a fair amount of history behind it. It goes right past most Democrats, but highly partisan ones notice it. It's just trash talk (which I trusted you didn't intend).

The other half is why people let trash talk get to them. Randy Newman explains why by describing those people:
I see them lurking in book stores
Working for the Public Radio
Carrying their babies around in a sack on their back
Moving careful and slow
That's them, or us, depending on how I feel when I think about it. Mostly us, god help me. Careful and slow: A bad combo when someone has your range.

The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

John A Arkansawyer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:19 pm
My taxes went down. I appreciated getting to keep more of my money.
The cost of that temporary increase in my check was cutting taxes on the rich permanently and deeply. I'd rather not have gotten the money. I figured how much my take-home went up and and bumped up my church pledge roughly that amount, because I didn't want that money going into my pocket.
Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:19 pm
He didn’t tell our allies to fuck off and suddenly pull out and get a bunch of Marines killed and then say he did a great job.
We didn't have an "ally" in Afghanistan--we had a Potemkin Country into which we'd poured a lot of money and people. It was a rotten enterprise from early on. I'm not happy about thirteen Americans getting killed while defending an evacuation, but I don't see how that evacuation could've happened without considerable risk, other than having performed it in 2002 after finishing the original mission. Trump was smart to commit to withdrawing after the election, but at least he did commit to it, so good for him. Biden stood by that commitment and hasn't backed down, so better for him.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:13 am
Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:14 pm
I don’t understand why that bothers democrats but I accept that it does.
There's a long history behind it, some of it mythological and some of it random usage, so I don't necessarily believe everything in the Wikipedia article on it. I do believe Donald Trump, who is good with words in a bad way, when he says, "The Democratic Party sounds too good so I don't want to use that, OK?...I call it the Democrat Party. It sounds better rhetorically." So that's the first half of it: It's a long-running, low-level insult with a fair amount of history behind it. It goes right past most Democrats, but highly partisan ones notice it. It's just trash talk (which I trusted you didn't intend).

The other half is why people let trash talk get to them. Randy Newman explains why by describing those people:
I see them lurking in book stores
Working for the Public Radio
Carrying their babies around in a sack on their back
Moving careful and slow
That's them, or us, depending on how I feel when I think about it. Mostly us, god help me. Careful and slow: A bad combo when someone has your range.

Right. Like I said I don’t get why that bothers some democrats but I accept that it does. To me it’s nowhere near as bad as being called deplorable, or a bitter clinger, or the way boomer has come to describe the people you are supposed to regard with zero respect and lots of contempt. That one in particular is silly to me. At what point are you supposed to grow up and stop thinking like a rebellious teenager?
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:23 pm
It’s not that I don’t care about Kurdish deaths. But I care about the deaths of our Marines more. I’ll admit it.
There may come a time when we (all people in all places) value (and mourn) all lives (and deaths) the same, but we're a long way from there. I feel the same way and I assume most Americans do. And that's not even counting your more intimate connection as a vet. I was comparing "action to action," not the impact on America and Americans, and was most definitely not criticizing your emphasis on American lives.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

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tinnitus photography
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

Cole Younger wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:19 pm
tinnitus photography wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:31 pm
John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:37 pm
I sure didn't want Biden, but I'm pretty much amazed with the Biden presidency so far. He started out to the left of Obama and kept going, which I didn't think he had in him. He's clawing back some of what the fat fucks of the world have been chiseling out of regular people for decades. And he's been steadfast in owning Afghanistan. If he'd backed down or shown signs of hesitation--but he didn't. The American people wanted out of Afghanistan and Biden delivered. Over time, the bleating of the foreign policy elite, who are always ready to fight a war with someone else's kids, will go away.

Regular people lost faith in the Democratic Party because, starting with Bill Clinton, it stopped making their lives better. Biden seems determined to change that. I'm optimistic.
totally agree that the Dem party needs to improve the lives of people, and between the infrastructure bill and the pullout it's progress for sure. what did Trump do other than give a tax break that heavily favored the guys he golfs with?
My taxes went down. I appreciated getting to keep more of my money.
and as always, Trump really took good care of people like himself (pass-through LLCs) and his cronies:
On a static basis, the plan would lead to at least 0.8 percent higher after-tax income for all taxpayer quintiles. The plan would lead to at least 10.2 percent higher incomes for the top 1 percent of taxpayers or as much as 16.0 percent higher, depending on the nature of a key business policy provision.
cool that everyone got a few hundred bucks back, though. and wasn't he gonna do great things w/ infrastructure? Oh yeah, he couldn't do that since he cut taxes.

beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

tinnitus photography wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:20 am
Oh yeah, he couldn't do that since he cut taxes.
The way I remember it, he couldn't do infrastructure because he and his team were incompetent and clueless. I mean how hopeless do you have to be to turn the phrase "infrastructure week" into an actual joke? The same way he and his incompetent and clueless team couldn't provide better healthcare at lower cost, or provide more middle class jobs, or save the coal industry, or teach China a lesson or get NATO to pay for the defense we provide...or .... or ...;or.... The guy never had a clue and never had an interest in governing, at least not while the golf course beckoned (he would be working so hard for us that he'd never have time to golf). His 3 accomplishments: 1. A tax cut, which turned out to be for him and his buddies and which burdened the rest of us w/ hundreds of billions of dollars of more debt without providing any of the promised economic growth. 2. A NAFTA trade treaty which was necessary because he blew up the first one and achieved virtually nothing in the redo except we had NAFTA before him and we still have NAFTA now. 3. An astonishingly quick, surprisingly effective vaccine against a pandemic, which he disavows. Remember eliminating the deficit? Remember 8% annual growth? Remember better health care for less? Remember jobs? Well, neither does he. But he can probably walk his golf course blindfolded.

Edit: I really shouldn't ignore #4; it's just hard when his "achievement" is my disaster, but it has to be acknowledged that he re made the federal courts including the Supreme Court in just the way his supporters wanted. OTOH, it is my oft-stated belief that in 20 or 50 years this period will be looked back upon as the time when the decline of the judiciary accelerated and became irreversible. Hey, you say potato, I say potahto.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

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