The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

[chuckrh]

I don't know if the Republican posturing on Ukraine is politics as usual ("just negotiations") or the kind of anarchy/chaos they have recently specialized in just because they can and just to attack Biden at all costs. All i know is that the result is likely to be terrible (theoretically they can still pass an aid bill before yet another recess but the betting is that it's not going to happen).

I don't know if I can honestly say that I liked it better when foreign policy was left to the president/executive branch; lots of bad things happened under that model. But partisanship and foreign policy really don't mix well. It seems so patently obvious that supporting Ukraine is in the best interests of the United States, yet here we are. Again. It's as if Putin has a direct line into the Republican Party...

& the Chinese a direct line to the Democrats. We're waging a proxy war for them.

[tinnitus photography]

I don't know if the Republican posturing on Ukraine is politics as usual ("just negotiations") or the kind of anarchy/chaos they have recently specialized in just because they can and just to attack Biden at all costs. All i know is that the result is likely to be terrible (theoretically they can still pass an aid bill before yet another recess but the betting is that it's not going to happen).

I don't know if I can honestly say that I liked it better when foreign policy was left to the president/executive branch; lots of bad things happened under that model. But partisanship and foreign policy really don't mix well. It seems so patently obvious that supporting Ukraine is in the best interests of the United States, yet here we are. Again. It's as if Putin has a direct line into the Republican Party...

& the Chinese a direct line to the Democrats. We're waging a proxy war for them.

go on...

[chuckrh]

I don't know if the Republican posturing on Ukraine is politics as usual ("just negotiations") or the kind of anarchy/chaos they have recently specialized in just because they can and just to attack Biden at all costs. All i know is that the result is likely to be terrible (theoretically they can still pass an aid bill before yet another recess but the betting is that it's not going to happen).

I don't know if I can honestly say that I liked it better when foreign policy was left to the president/executive branch; lots of bad things happened under that model. But partisanship and foreign policy really don't mix well. It seems so patently obvious that supporting Ukraine is in the best interests of the United States, yet here we are. Again. It's as if Putin has a direct line into the Republican Party...

& the Chinese a direct line to the Democrats. We're waging a proxy war for them.

go on...

If you read Chinese history you'll see they think really long term. Their civilization is much older than ours. They've slowly gained a lot of control of our economy & where there's money you're going to find politicians. Something specific from my part of the world (NW). This may seem trivial but it's just one example. When Hong Kong was absorbed a lot of residents moved to Vancouver BC. Soon, they started buying large amounts of real estate in Seattle. Our best club is the Showbox in the heart of downtown. It's been around in various guises since the 40s. The building it's in was purchased by Chinese concerns out of Vancouver. They planned to tear down the building & put up mixed use retail & residential. There was a big hubbub & a movement to get the building declared historical. I'm not sure where that's at now but a temporary restraining order was issuded & the club still operates. This is just an example with visibility. I'm not a conspiracy guy so I'm not going to go on but it's not just Seattle where this is going on. If the Chinese decided to call in their chips there'd be a war. They won't do it because it would be a stupid move. Can't sell to corpses. So, instead you gain control of the economy.

[beantownbubba]

The influence of China on the US economy and government is of course a hot topic. The specific issues range widely from cybercrime to cybersecurity to industrial espionage to direct and indirect narcotics and narcotic precursor smuggling to ignoring international laws on things like intellectual property protection, to Chinese ownership of American real estate, farms and businesses, to improper Chinese govt support for Chinese businesses (including manipulation of the yuan) giving them a competitive advantage in international markets to Chinese ownership of US debt. China owns about $860 billion of US debt, second largest among all US creditor nations (Japan is the biggest).

Each of these is a big issue; together they're a huge issue. But I am not aware of allegations of specific Chinese control of, or even unseemly influence over, the Democratic Party. If anything, it seems to me that China's goal is to "divide and conquer" by sowing discord, confusion and chaos between and among the 2 major parties and other major players.

[chuckrh]

The influence of China on the US economy and government is of course a hot topic. The specific issues range widely from cybercrime to cybersecurity to industrial espionage to direct and indirect narcotics and narcotic precursor smuggling to ignoring international laws on things like intellectual property protection, to Chinese ownership of American real estate, farms and businesses, to improper Chinese govt support for Chinese businesses (including manipulation of the yuan) giving them a competitive advantage in international markets to Chinese ownership of US debt. China owns about $860 billion of US debt, second largest among all US creditor nations (Japan is the biggest).

Each of these is a big issue; together they're a huge issue. But I am not aware of allegations of specific Chinese control of, or even unseemly influence over, the Democratic Party. If anything, it seems to me that China's goal is to "divide and conquer" by sowing discord, confusion and chaos between and among the 2 major parties and other major players.

I think this was my main premise:
where there's money you're going to find politicians

[tinnitus photography]

i guess i don't see the connection between chinese real estate holders and democratic officials.

[chuckrh]

i guess i don't see the connection between chinese real estate holders and democratic officials.

Seattle is run by Democrats, some radical. At the same time the real estate guys are running amok. We have a city council member (leaving soon, thank God) who is so far left she backed having protestors take over a police precinct. Also used her keys to let protestors in the middle of the night into the city offices. She's done nothing but sow discontent. I'm high & probably not explaining it right. I guess short version is the whole system is corrupt in one way or another.

[beantownbubba]

I remember during the Trump presidency waking up just about every morning dreading what he might have said or posted overnight. That was pretty stress-inducing. That's about as close as I can come to the current reality and it's not that close at all: The sheer volume of news and pseudo news, calamities and potential calamities and crises and pseudo crises is just overwhelming. Not only is it impossible to keep up, it's really difficult to figure out what's actually important. Some of this is no doubt the speed of our current range of communications media/sources and the related but separate issue of the number of voices clamoring for attention but it also seems that there's just more stuff going on. It's exhausting.

[pearlbeer]

I remember during the Trump presidency waking up just about every morning dreading what he might have said or posted overnight. That was pretty stress-inducing. That's about as close as I can come to the current reality and it's not that close at all: The sheer volume of news and pseudo news, calamities and potential calamities and crises and pseudo crises is just overwhelming. Not only is it impossible to keep up, it's really difficult to figure out what's actually important. Some of this is no doubt the speed of our current range of communications media/sources and the related but separate issue of the number of voices clamoring for attention but it also seems that there's just more stuff going on. It's exhausting.

Amen, brother. I was just telling my buddy over beers the other night that I'm just so TIRED of feeling like I'm constantly holding my breath....about politics, health, the climate, foreign unrest, the economy..... It just all feels like anything could tip anytime. My live is pretty darn good, so I guess I can't complain, but I just want to enjoy it, rather than feel like I'm holding my breath. I'm with you, btb, you can try to disengage a bit with the news cycle, but it's just impossible these days.

Well, it looks like my time is up, see ya on the couch next week, Doc. Wait...is that a JD on the wall? Ah, shit, I may have walked in the wrong door.

[beantownbubba]

Well, it looks like my time is up, see ya on the couch next week, Doc. Wait...is that a JD on the wall? Ah, shit, I may have walked in the wrong door.

What, you've never heard of a legal therapist? I am a man of many talents, it's just that none of them are obvious.

[Flea]

Well, it looks like my time is up, see ya on the couch next week, Doc. Wait...is that a JD on the wall? Ah, shit, I may have walked in the wrong door.

What, you've never heard of a legal therapist? I am a man of many talents, it's just that none of them are obvious.

I bet you look good naked!

[beantownbubba]

I bet you look good naked!

AWWW, I bet you say that to all the guys.

[beantownbubba]

Excellent piece in today's NYT about the Supreme Court's decision-making in Dobbs. Call me old fashioned but i'm still surprised maybe even shocked that so many insiders are willing to talk to reporters about confidential stuff. That doesn't take away from the impressive achievement of the reporters, though. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/15/us/s ... 029039208a

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

Fuck yeah!

Rumor is he is gonna ask to defer payment a la Ohtani

[pearlbeer]

Fuck yeah!

Rumor is he is gonna ask to defer payment a la Ohtani

Thats a lot of millions. Hope they collect soon and make him pay.

Good news! Hey, you guys wanna celebrate? Party at Four Seasons????

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

Fuck yeah!

Rumor is he is gonna ask to defer payment a la Ohtani

Thats a lot of millions. Hope they collect soon and make him pay.

Good news! Hey, you guys wanna celebrate? Party at Four Seasons????

[beantownbubba]

https://wapo.st/47rE7Qi

Believe it or not, Trump has done us a favor. The line is now drawn. The gauntlet has been thrown. We've reached the "why didn't the good Germans do more to stop Hitler when they could?" or "which side are you on?" decision making time. The Republican Party needs to disavow him. The Republican presidential candidates need to separate themselves from him. Republican leadership, such as it is, need to clearly state that this is unacceptable. I couldn't explain Jewish Republicans yesterday, but today (unless they're waiting for the actions I've just described to happen) if they're still Republicans they've raised cognitive dissonance to a new and completely bizarre level completely divorced from history and common sense. Are uncertain tax cuts really enough to throw your weight and money behind someone who has basically said he wants to destroy you?

If these statements aren't alarm bells, what would be?

So it's more than a month later and Trump continues to quote Hitler, ranting about blood poisoning, citing some of the worst current dictators in the world as role models and quoting Putin as authority/proof of malfeasance bu the US government.

And more than a month later the loudest sound from the Republican Party continues to be crickets. I figure that, say, 5-10% of the population is the irreducible minimum of scum who believe this shit and worse; another, say, 10% come from the Steve Bannon School of Leninism who actively root for chaos, whose idea of a great day is when one of their "heroes" owns the libs, and who lean towards anarchism/nihilism. That leaves a whole bunch of people who are being defined by their silence, who are certainly cowards but it's worse than that because we've seen this movie before and it looked just like this [give or take] and the ending was a, forgive me, box office bomb.

As a reminder, this man is the odds on favorite to be the presidential candidate of one of the two major political parties in this country. WTF, people? How can this be happening?

[Flea]

So it's more than a month later and Trump continues to quote Hitler, ranting about blood poisoning, citing some of the worst current dictators in the world as role models and quoting Putin as authority/proof of malfeasance bu the US government.

And more than a month later the loudest sound from the Republican Party continues to be crickets. I figure that, say, 5-10% of the population is the irreducible minimum of scum who believe this shit and worse; another, say, 10% come from the Steve Bannon School of Leninism who actively root for chaos, whose idea of a great day is when one of their "heroes" owns the libs, and who lean towards anarchism/nihilism. That leaves a whole bunch of people who are being defined by their silence, who are certainly cowards but it's worse than that because we've seen this movie before and it looked just like this [give or take] and the ending was a, forgive me, box office bomb.

As a reminder, this man is the odds on favorite to be the presidential candidate of one of the two major political parties in this country. WTF, people? How can this be happening?

You better get used to saying President Trump again. Biden/Harris should immediately announce they are no longer in contention.

[Zip City]

So it's more than a month later and Trump continues to quote Hitler, ranting about blood poisoning, citing some of the worst current dictators in the world as role models and quoting Putin as authority/proof of malfeasance bu the US government.

And more than a month later the loudest sound from the Republican Party continues to be crickets. I figure that, say, 5-10% of the population is the irreducible minimum of scum who believe this shit and worse; another, say, 10% come from the Steve Bannon School of Leninism who actively root for chaos, whose idea of a great day is when one of their "heroes" owns the libs, and who lean towards anarchism/nihilism. That leaves a whole bunch of people who are being defined by their silence, who are certainly cowards but it's worse than that because we've seen this movie before and it looked just like this [give or take] and the ending was a, forgive me, box office bomb.

As a reminder, this man is the odds on favorite to be the presidential candidate of one of the two major political parties in this country. WTF, people? How can this be happening?

You better get used to saying President Trump again. Biden/Harris should immediately announce they are no longer in contention.

Not an option. Several states’ deadlines for getting into the primary have passed.

[beantownbubba]

Sooo... the Colorado Supreme Court decision. Sounds like a big deal, right? It may even turn out that way. But it may not.

First the most important point: If there are more than 100 people in this country who actually fully understand the meaning, scope and application of the relevant clause of the 14th Amendment, I'd be mighty surprised. And that's including the 7 CO judges who had to become experts in record time to make and write the decision. Anyone who wants to argue the merits of the decision "on the law" is just "a guy on the street" like everyone else. Some will be right, some will be wrong, but virtually nobody really has authoritative credentials. So most people are/will be arguing on the outcome not the actual law. OTOH, Larry Tribe, probably the foremost constitutional scholar of his (my) generation has written in favor of the CO court's outcome (his comments in cooperation w/ legendary conservative federal appellate court judge Luttig arguably started the ball rolling on this whole concept) and that counts for a lot to me personally.

Second, the decision is subject to Supreme Court review. The Court might choose not to take the case, but that would be most surprising. What the outcome will be is, to me, highly in doubt. Yes, Justice Thomas should recuse himself. No, he probably won't. If the Supreme Court overturns the CO decision, Trump will be on the ballot in CO and all other similar challenges in other states will immediately be rendered moot. If the Supreme Court upholds the CO decision, expect a number of similar decisions in other states where these cases have already been initiated and Trump's path to victory will literally disappear.

Third, even if one thinks the decision is correct as I think it probably is (again, subject to the 2nd 'graph above), the outcome is probably bad. If Trump is not defeated resoundingly and "fair and square" (which includes not by way of judicial process) he and the agony and chaos he brings with him will not go away. This is a real bind for the country and I don't know that there's a good answer except to make sure that Trump loses resoundingly and fair and square by any reasonable measure. I think that outcome is more likely than the promoted polls suggest, but it's still a long haul from here to there.

[John A Arkansawyer]

If Trump is not defeated resoundingly and "fair and square" (which includes not by way of judicial process) he and the agony and chaos he brings with him will not go away. This is a real bind for the country and I don't know that there's a good answer except to make sure that Trump loses resoundingly and fair and square by any reasonable measure. I think that outcome is more likely than the promoted polls suggest, but it's still a long haul from here to there.

I'm not worried about 2024, but about the years after. There's an irreducible fraction that's bound on destruction. What do we do about that? I don't know in particular, though I have lots of general (and therefore useless) things to say about it.

[beantownbubba]

I'm not worried about 2024, but about the years after. There's an irreducible fraction that's bound on destruction. What do we do about that? I don't know in particular, though I have lots of general (and therefore useless) things to say about it.

I do worry about 2024 but I do agree w/ you going forward. It is clear we have a hardcore group of true believers* (see my estimates above) and they get more extreme and more violent all the time. It is a real problem and one not easily fixed.

*In Trump, fascism, racism and/or nihilism

[Cole Younger]

Where's Cole Younger when we need him? With Mitt Romney's announcement that he's not going to run again combined with the upcoming release of a biography about him (some of which is reprinted in the current Atlantic), Mitt has become something of an object of fascination for the chattering classes. In short, he's looking awfully good in comparison to what's become of the Republican Party and a lot of people are reconsidering his place and his value. While I don't spend a lot of time thinking about him, I suppose I'm in that category as well. It's just an interesting moment, with a lot of potential for false and distorting nostalgia, too, but if CY wants to say "I told you so" he deserves that moment.

Hey ol friend. Yeah Mittens was kind of a light bulb moment for me. When the outrage got turned up to eleven for that guy so saw the whole thing a lot more clearly. It’s why I never took the Trump outrage seriously. People hate who they are told to hate for the most part. Once again, I think they all suck and don’t want t any of them to have any say over any of our lives whatsoever. You’ve gotta be screwed up to want that job.


FWIW, as an aside, a friend of mine who is a secret service agent and returned home a few years ago because he was able to land a spot on Jimmy Carter’s detail has told me some stories recently that confirm most of what I figured about these people. They just about all truly suck. He said George Bush is one of the biggest shit heads you can imagine which is no surprise obviously and what he said about Joe Biden was, “You ain’t ever seen white trash until you’ve been around Joe Biden and his family.” Interestingly he said the two nicest he has dealt with were Obama and Trump. He said both were very good to them and truly seemed appreciative of them. He said, “I think they both knew half the country hated their guts so they really did appreciate us.”

Y’all take care and when it comes to politics just remember, your side are not the good guys no matter who you are and it’s all lies all the time. That and politics ruins everything that’s good. I love ya, even those of you that hate me, and hope you’re all doing well.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

Where's Cole Younger when we need him? With Mitt Romney's announcement that he's not going to run again combined with the upcoming release of a biography about him (some of which is reprinted in the current Atlantic), Mitt has become something of an object of fascination for the chattering classes. In short, he's looking awfully good in comparison to what's become of the Republican Party and a lot of people are reconsidering his place and his value. While I don't spend a lot of time thinking about him, I suppose I'm in that category as well. It's just an interesting moment, with a lot of potential for false and distorting nostalgia, too, but if CY wants to say "I told you so" he deserves that moment.

Hey ol friend. Yeah Mittens was kind of a light bulb moment for me. When the outrage got turned up to eleven for that guy so saw the whole thing a lot more clearly. It’s why I never took the Trump outrage seriously. People hate who they are told to hate for the most part. Once again, I think they all suck and don’t want t any of them to have any say over any of our lives whatsoever. You’ve gotta be screwed up to want that job.


FWIW, as an aside, a friend of mine who is a secret service agent and returned home a few years ago because he was able to land a spot on Jimmy Carter’s detail has told me some stories recently that confirm most of what I figured about these people. They just about all truly suck. He said George Bush is one of the biggest shit heads you can imagine which is no surprise obviously and what he said about Joe Biden was, “You ain’t ever seen white trash until you’ve been around Joe Biden and his family.” Interestingly he said the two nicest he has dealt with were Obama and Trump. He said both were very good to them and truly seemed appreciative of them. He said, “I think they both knew half the country hated their guts so they really did appreciate us.”

Y’all take care and when it comes to politics just remember, your side are not the good guys no matter who you are and it’s all lies all the time. That and politics ruins everything that’s good. I love ya, even those of you that hate me, and hope you’re all doing well.

Anyone who hates Cole is a hater

Good to see you up in here, Cole.

[beantownbubba]

Welcome back CY. Good to see ya as always. I hope you'll stick around or at least pop in more frequently.

Can't argue with your central point; my concern is that it can and often does lead to apathy which to me is just not a good enough answer. OTOH I do not know what a good enough answer is.

I have long thought that choosing to run for president is grounds for immediate disqualification from running for president, i.e. I don't trust anyone who actually thinks they're the right person for the job. In many ways that's just another way of saying what you're saying*, but I run into the same problem noted above. Solutions are in short supply.

Edit: *Actually on re-reading yours, it's exactly the same as what you're saying ("You've gotta be screwed up to want that job.")

[Swamp]

They slipped in, in the dead of night so that no one would notice what they were doing.
By the time I got up at 4:30 it was breaking news. A private organization had paid to have a
Confederate monument removed and the mayor, Donna Deagan, says without consulting
city council, sure. Someone in the city council said, what's next, the jail? Even though there
was much celebration, there were those that cried "you're erasing history!"
And sure enough later that day Nikki Haley says, "slavery?"
The monument honored the women that stayed home during the war. Now if they could just
replace it with a monument honoring women who stay in the kitchen.

[beantownbubba]

As i've said before in different ways, the news is really beating me up lately. So many quickly shifting stories coming at us faster and, it seems, in greater volume with less time to think and react. Subtlety and nuance much less actual understanding have left the building a long time ago. But every once in a while there's a smaller story that i feel like I can grab on to and maybe say something worthwhile about. Today that story is Paul Ryan.

Paul Ryan has now joined the Hall of Infamy alongside his forebear in [non]act and deed, Robert McNamara. For the youngsters, McNamara was Secretary of Defense during the Lyndon Johnson administration, i.e. during some of the heaviest escalation of the Vietnam War. Sometime during his service McNamara came to the correct conclusions that the US's basic understanding or framework for understanding the war was wrong (it was not a communist revolution threatening the capitalist world order, it was an internal war of liberation), which in turn meant that US strategy and tactics were wrong and ultimately meant that the war was unwinnable in the absence of unimaginable escalation. Yet during the remainder of his time in office he said nothing about his understanding/knowledge, did absolutely nothing about it and continued to carry out the war "as usual." Years later he attempted to apologize and was roundly (and correctly imho) rejected for his cowardice and his complicity in the deaths and maiming of untold thousands of Americans and Vietnamese.

Paul Ryan is now out and about on the talking head circuit talking about how bad and dangerous Donald Trump is and how he has ruined the Republican Party which, for all practical purposes, no longer exists in a form that Ryan recognizes. This makes me want to puke. The picture I keep seeing running through my brain is Speaker of the House Paul Ryan in the Rose Garden w/ Trump and the rest of the pygmies known as Republican Congressmen "celebrating" like frat boys their vote to overturn the ACA. Nevermind that it was only a House vote and the Senate ultimately blocked their effort, leaving the ACA in place. The whole thing was so juvenile, so cynical, so wrong, Among other things, despite lavish promises (now being repeated by Trump in almost the exact same language w/ no apparent consequences) to replace the ACA w/ something better and cheaper, neither Trump nor Ryan had an alternative to offer.

In and out of office, Ryan bobbed and weaved around Trump's many indiscretions and outrages, generally backing him and never challenging him despite knowing better. In so [not] doing, and given his leadership he, along w/ Mitch McConnell, was one of Trump's biggest enablers. Even when Liz Cheney (and with less fanfare Adam Kinzinger) finally, finally drew the necessary line in the sand, Ryan left her to twist in the wind. Now, in 2024, Ryan finally speaks, after the damage has been done and after his party has admittedly been ripped to shreds. This is pathetic and Ryan ought to be laughed off his various stages. Instead, he will undoubtedly collect hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, in speaking fees. Cowardice ought to be called out. Dereliction of duty ought to be called out. And neither should be rewarded financially or with media coverage.

There have been a lot of end of year/new year musings in the media about "who we really are" as a people, as a country. Well, this is who we are unless and until proven otherwise.

Edited once for clarity

[beantownbubba]

"Only" one death (other than the shooter) in the school shooting in Iowa so it barely makes a ripple; doesn't even make the front page in ancient parlance. This is incomprehensible to me. Anyone wondering who we really are (see previous post) doesn't have to look far for answers, but you may want to wear sunglasses (or a blindfold).

[beantownbubba]

Seems like Wayne LaPierre of the NRA managed to quiet the guns aimed at him, so to speak, by resigning ahead of his trial on corruption charges. The trial will still proceed and he of course can be found guilty but if so we will not have the satisfaction of watching him be removed from his position. I can only hope that the resignation is a sign of how much trouble he's really in.

[John A Arkansawyer]

"Only" one death (other than the shooter) in the school shooting in Iowa so it barely makes a ripple; doesn't even make the front page in ancient parlance.

According to one source, forty-six people per day are shot and killed in America.