The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

[Zip City]

I’m not sure how DeSantis thinks pissing off black, latino and LGBT voters is a winning strategy in a general election, but perhaps he hasn’t thought his cunning plan through.

[chuckrh]

I’m not sure how DeSantis thinks pissing of black, latino and LGBT voters is a winning strategy in a general election, but perhaps he hasn’t thought his cunning plan through.

Nikki Haley is scarier.

[beantownbubba]

Rudy, Rudy, Rudy. The man is no longer even a shadow of his former self. From the NYT, re the election workers Rudy accused of election fraud:

"In a two-page declaration, Mr. Giuliani acknowledged that he had in fact made the statements about Ms. Freeman and Ms. Moss that led to the filing of the suit and that the remarks “carry meaning that is defamatory per se.” He also admitted that his statements were “actionable” and “false” and that he no longer disputed the “factual elements of liability” the election workers had raised in their suit."

[Tequila Cowboy]

Rudy, Rudy, Rudy. The man is no longer even a shadow of his former self. From the NYT, re the election workers Rudy accused of election fraud:

"In a two-page declaration, Mr. Giuliani acknowledged that he had in fact made the statements about Ms. Freeman and Ms. Moss that led to the filing of the suit and that the remarks “carry meaning that is defamatory per se.” He also admitted that his statements were “actionable” and “false” and that he no longer disputed the “factual elements of liability” the election workers had raised in their suit."

Sure, but did you see the stipulation that the admission only applied to THIS SPECIFIC CASE? Presumably he won’t admit the same thing in a criminal court.

[beantownbubba]

Rudy, Rudy, Rudy. The man is no longer even a shadow of his former self. From the NYT, re the election workers Rudy accused of election fraud:

"In a two-page declaration, Mr. Giuliani acknowledged that he had in fact made the statements about Ms. Freeman and Ms. Moss that led to the filing of the suit and that the remarks “carry meaning that is defamatory per se.” He also admitted that his statements were “actionable” and “false” and that he no longer disputed the “factual elements of liability” the election workers had raised in their suit."

Sure, but did you see the stipulation that the admission only applied to THIS SPECIFIC CASE? Presumably he won’t admit the same thing in a criminal court.

There are several possible responses that occur to me:

Ask Bill Cosby how well that worked out for him.

Those 2 women deserve justice as much as pretty much anybody caught up in the whole sorry mess so I'm cool w/ "only" in civil court.

If you are a fervent election denier, do you conclude that Rudy lied because it's "only" a civil case or do you start to notice how the foundations are slip sliding away?

If one assumes that it is unlikely that any judge will sentence the elderly Rudy to prison for pretty much anything, carrying around a judgment he can't pay until his dying day may be the only punishment he gets; it may even force him to officially declare bankruptcy instead of just whining about it.

Rudy was a lawyer. He grew up and thrived in a pretty traditional world. While he understands the distinction between civil and criminal admissions, it has to be excruciatingly embarrassing for this former US Attorney, big city mayor, "America's Mayor," big law firm partner, and friend and consigliere to the rich, famous and powerful to admit that the basis for the last 3+ years of his life was a fraud he knowingly perpetrated on friend and foe alike.

There's more but you get the idea.

[pearlbeer]

it has to be excruciatingly embarrassing for this former US Attorney, big city mayor, "America's Mayor," big law firm partner, and friend and consigliere to the rich, famous and powerful to admit that the basis for the last 3+ years of his life was a fraud he knowingly perpetrated on friend and foe alike.

I don't think the man has the capacity to be embarrassed anymore. Remember the press conference at the Four Seasons (landscaping company) or the Borat film?

[tinnitus photography]

the tin man leaking oil will never get old.

[beantownbubba]

I don't think the man has the capacity to be embarrassed anymore.

You're probably right. It probably says more about me than him but I'd like to think there's a difference to one's sense of self or self-esteem between being a clown and being a lying fraud.

[beantownbubba]

Rudy, Rudy, Rudy. The man is no longer even a shadow of his former self. From the NYT, re the election workers Rudy accused of election fraud:

"In a two-page declaration, Mr. Giuliani acknowledged that he had in fact made the statements about Ms. Freeman and Ms. Moss that led to the filing of the suit and that the remarks “carry meaning that is defamatory per se.” He also admitted that his statements were “actionable” and “false” and that he no longer disputed the “factual elements of liability” the election workers had raised in their suit."

Sure, but did you see the stipulation that the admission only applied to THIS SPECIFIC CASE? Presumably he won’t admit the same thing in a criminal court.

There are several possible responses that occur to me:

Also, IIRC it's been established that Rudy testified to the federal grand jury or at least was interviewed by Smith's team. Assuming the declaration reflects the truth and that he told the truth to Smith's team/grand jury, it doesn't bode well for Trump that one of his closest confidants and (at least for a while, lawyers) knew there was no election fraud at the same time he was proclaiming election fraud from the rooftops.

[Mundane Mayhem]

If you are a fervent election denier, do you conclude that Rudy lied because it's "only" a civil case or do you start to notice how the foundations are slip sliding away?

I wish I shared your optimism that reality matters even a little bit to those folks.

[beantownbubba]

If you are a fervent election denier, do you conclude that Rudy lied because it's "only" a civil case or do you start to notice how the foundations are slip sliding away?

I am not talking about anything like an aha moment or sudden conversion. I'm thinking more along the lines of creeping doubt. The kind of doubt that is not noticeable until all at once something cracks.

Robert Hubbell expressed it well:

" Those admissions [in the declaration] gut the claims of Trump, Giuliani, and others that Joe Biden stole the 2020 election in Georgia. The admissions are a HUGE deal that are orders of magnitude more significant than the stories about Hunter Biden that are headlining every news source known to man. A key conspirator in the attempted coup has admitted that one of the central lies animating the coup is false.

That is big news, not merely because the truth prevailed. It is big news because, on the day the news broke, the GOP was unfazed that its “stolen election narrative” was gutted. It is big news because it demonstrates that Trump had no reasonable basis to believe his lies about Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss.

And it is big news because finally, for once, there is blazing clarity in exposing the falsity of the Big Lie. Those occasions are rare. But when they occur, we should catch our breath and savor the moment of truth. And thank the two women who brought us to this point: Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss."

Edit: Whoops I didn't copy that correctly. If it's not clear, I'm responding to your comment MM.

[cortez the killer]

it has to be excruciatingly embarrassing for this former US Attorney, big city mayor, "America's Mayor," big law firm partner, and friend and consigliere to the rich, famous and powerful to admit that the basis for the last 3+ years of his life was a fraud he knowingly perpetrated on friend and foe alike.

I don't think the man has the capacity to be embarrassed anymore. Remember the press conference at the Four Seasons (landscaping company) or the Borat film?

I'm a proud owner of this t-shirt:

[Mundane Mayhem]

If you are a fervent election denier, do you conclude that Rudy lied because it's "only" a civil case or do you start to notice how the foundations are slip sliding away?

I am not talking about anything like an aha moment or sudden conversion. I'm thinking more along the lines of creeping doubt. The kind of doubt that is not noticeable until all at once something cracks.

Robert Hubbell expressed it well:

" Those admissions [in the declaration] gut the claims of Trump, Giuliani, and others that Joe Biden stole the 2020 election in Georgia. The admissions are a HUGE deal that are orders of magnitude more significant than the stories about Hunter Biden that are headlining every news source known to man. A key conspirator in the attempted coup has admitted that one of the central lies animating the coup is false.

That is big news, not merely because the truth prevailed. It is big news because, on the day the news broke, the GOP was unfazed that its “stolen election narrative” was gutted. It is big news because it demonstrates that Trump had no reasonable basis to believe his lies about Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss.

And it is big news because finally, for once, there is blazing clarity in exposing the falsity of the Big Lie. Those occasions are rare. But when they occur, we should catch our breath and savor the moment of truth. And thank the two women who brought us to this point: Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss."

Edit: Whoops I didn't copy that correctly. If it's not clear, I'm responding to your comment MM.

I don't necessarily dispute any of these assertions. And maybe this will hold true for some segment of the Big Lie-believing crowd. I have to imagine your universe of "persuadables" is pretty small here. One wonders where people get information, and what they'll actually hear and digest about this. It is Big News. I just don't think it'll make a Big Difference in terms of the things threatening to tear our Republic apart.

On our side of the spectrum, we are very familiar with the arguments that people say things in court under duress all the time, up to and including accepting plea deals for crimes they didn't commit. It doesn't take a rhetorical genius to spin up a (spurious) version of that argument here that effectively amounts to throwing up one's hands and moving the goalposts, without addressing the underlying substance. "Rudy and his attorneys just realized he was likely to be railroaded by a corrupt system and fighting it didn't justify the expense and now we can move to dismiss" blah blah blah.

I don't think it'll make any difference to the folks who think that JFK Jr. is still alive and will lead us to the promised land while exposing a global cabal of Lizard People and pedophiles, but I digress.

I also think that bringing up Hunter Biden is an own-goal here, but that's a whole 'nother topic.

[beantownbubba]

So...the other (3rd? 4th? nth?) shoe has finally dropped, courtesy of Jack Smith. Be prepared for an onslaught of words the likes of which have not been seen since, oh, Trump's second impeachment? One can only imagine the stream of CAPITALIZED INVECTIVE AND RAGE that will spew forth from Trump over the coming weeks. Not that it hasn't been crazy already but buckle up, buddies. It's going to be a wild ride.

Right now the most interesting thing to me is finding out who will be testifying for the prosecution but I don't know how long it will take for that info to be released/leaked.

[Mundane Mayhem]

So...the other (3rd? 4th? nth?) shoe has finally dropped, courtesy of Jack Smith. Be prepared for an onslaught of words the likes of which have not been seen since, oh, Trump's second impeachment? One can only imagine the stream of CAPITALIZED INVECTIVE AND RAGE that will spew forth from Trump over the coming weeks. Not that it hasn't been crazy already but buckle up, buddies. It's going to be a wild ride.

Right now the most interesting thing to me is finding out who will be testifying for the prosecution but I don't know how long it will take for that info to be released/leaked.

I just hope Georgia indicts him before the debate on the 23rd so we can watch the rest of these weasels tapdance around yet another one and try to pretend that Trump would piss on them if they were on fire.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

[beantownbubba]

Worth reading:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/02/opin ... 029039208a

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/02/opin ... 029039208a

[pearlbeer]

“Many of our players were openly hostile to America — no other country behaved in such a manner, or even close,” Trump wrote on Truth Social. “WOKE EQUALS FAILURE. Nice shot, Megan, the U.S. is going to Hell!!! MAGA.”


I mean....how deep does this well of shit run? It's all just so dumb. Make it end.

[chuckrh]

“Many of our players were openly hostile to America — no other country behaved in such a manner, or even close,” Trump wrote on Truth Social. “WOKE EQUALS FAILURE. Nice shot, Megan, the U.S. is going to Hell!!! MAGA.”


I mean....how deep does this well of shit run? It's all just so dumb. Make it end.

One my main tenets is people are fucking stupid. You can go a long way by remembering that always.

[beantownbubba]

“Many of our players were openly hostile to America — no other country behaved in such a manner, or even close,” Trump wrote on Truth Social. “WOKE EQUALS FAILURE. Nice shot, Megan, the U.S. is going to Hell!!! MAGA.”


I mean....how deep does this well of shit run? It's all just so dumb. Make it end.

Yeah, I mentioned this bullshit in my post on the USWNT in the world cup thread. Vox has a good article, "The right wing backlash against the US women's national soccer team, explained which essentially makes the point that this is ridiculous if not insane.

[beantownbubba]

If one of your core beliefs driving you towards MAGA "membership" is that you feel like a threatened minority in your own country, well, just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get you. If it somehow wasn't clear before (Kansas, anyone?), the Ohio referendum must make it crystal clear to even biased observers that the anti-abortion position is definitively a minority viewpoint in this country. While not an excuse, it does help explain why the GOP and any number of conservative interest groups increasingly resort to undemocratic means to try to cling to power.

OTOH, is anyone else at all concerned that at least some state constitutions can be amended by simple majority vote, especially if those states, like Ohio, allow constitutional amendments to be proposed by citizen ballot initiatives? I'm not sure where I come out on this but I have to admit that changing a constitution by 50% + 1 makes me a bit uneasy. That's not at all to object to the result in Ohio, which came out exactly as it should have because of the context in which the issue emerged.

[Zip City]

Those who said that the GOP would always use abortion as a wedge issue but would never actually ban it were onto something. The backlash has been strong, and the GOP seem surprised by it.

[beantownbubba]

Those who said that the GOP would always use abortion as a wedge issue but would never actually ban it were onto something. The backlash has been strong, and the GOP seem surprised by it.

Which raises the possibly interesting question of who or what is the Republican Party at this point? Clearly the hardcore antiabortion element, which presumably includes but is not limited to evangelicals, is somewhere between disappointed and at least surprised if not outright shocked. The "I represent a district won by Biden" types are probably in chagrined "I told you so" and "what now?" mode. The traditional Republicans may be surprised but I doubt they're shocked, and they too will want to find a better (for them) path other than continuing to bang their heads against the same walls. How it plays out in the Party will obviously have repercussions in the broader political world over time. I doubt it will affect this cycle of presidential politics that much because (i) Trump is so far ahead and is likely to remain that way for at least a while; and (ii) the GOP will undoubtedly remain antiabortion, the only question is whether they can/will moderate their message (e.g. longer than 6 wk periods to obtain abortions; rape & incest exceptions, etc). I don't think any moderation along those lines will change the mind of a single person for whom abortion availability is a litmus test or even a top 3 issue.

[beantownbubba]

More and different details might emerge over time, but right now what I'm reading is that the Hawaii fires are being blamed on drought, low humidity, high winds and a hurricane that was not a direct hit but which may have had exacerbating effects. But what I'm mostly hearing is that the Hawaiin authorities were vastly underprepared essentially because "this kind of thing doesn't happen here." If that ever was acceptable, it can't possibly be a reason to be unprepared in this era of climate change and increasingly severe climate disasters. This IS our reality and not recognizing it is at least negligent if not criminal. And don't get me started on those still disputing that man made climate change exists.

[Zip City]

More and different details might emerge over time, but right now what I'm reading is that the Hawaii fires are being blamed on drought, low humidity, high winds and a hurricane that was not a direct hit but which may have had exacerbating effects. But what I'm mostly hearing is that the Hawaiin authorities were vastly underprepared essentially because "this kind of thing doesn't happen here." If that ever was acceptable, it can't possibly be a reason to be unprepared in this era of climate change and increasingly severe climate disasters. This IS our reality and not recognizing it is at least negligent if not criminal. And don't get me started on those still disputing that man made climate change exists.

Wouldn't this rank along with southern cities getting hit with a blizzard? They don't have the infrastructure in place to mitigate a problem that rarely happens

[pearlbeer]

More and different details might emerge over time, but right now what I'm reading is that the Hawaii fires are being blamed on drought, low humidity, high winds and a hurricane that was not a direct hit but which may have had exacerbating effects. But what I'm mostly hearing is that the Hawaiin authorities were vastly underprepared essentially because "this kind of thing doesn't happen here." If that ever was acceptable, it can't possibly be a reason to be unprepared in this era of climate change and increasingly severe climate disasters. This IS our reality and not recognizing it is at least negligent if not criminal. And don't get me started on those still disputing that man made climate change exists.

You're clearly overthinking this, btb.

“There is a very scientific word for this: It’s called summer,” Sen. Tommy Tuberville (R-Ala.) told HuffPost when asked about the heat on Thursday. “It’s no hotter right now than it’s ever been. I’ve been in this heat all my life in July and August as a football coach. This world’s not heating up, come on.”

[beantownbubba]

More and different details might emerge over time, but right now what I'm reading is that the Hawaii fires are being blamed on drought, low humidity, high winds and a hurricane that was not a direct hit but which may have had exacerbating effects. But what I'm mostly hearing is that the Hawaiin authorities were vastly underprepared essentially because "this kind of thing doesn't happen here." If that ever was acceptable, it can't possibly be a reason to be unprepared in this era of climate change and increasingly severe climate disasters. This IS our reality and not recognizing it is at least negligent if not criminal. And don't get me started on those still disputing that man made climate change exists.

You're clearly overthinking this, btb.

“There is a very scientific word for this: It’s called summer,” Sen. Tommy Tuberville (R-Ala.) told HuffPost when asked about the heat on Thursday. “It’s no hotter right now than it’s ever been. I’ve been in this heat all my life in July and August as a football coach. This world’s not heating up, come on.”

Story of my life, pb, story of my life. I'm just so glad we have Tommy to explain it all for us.

[beantownbubba]

More and different details might emerge over time, but right now what I'm reading is that the Hawaii fires are being blamed on drought, low humidity, high winds and a hurricane that was not a direct hit but which may have had exacerbating effects. But what I'm mostly hearing is that the Hawaiin authorities were vastly underprepared essentially because "this kind of thing doesn't happen here." If that ever was acceptable, it can't possibly be a reason to be unprepared in this era of climate change and increasingly severe climate disasters. This IS our reality and not recognizing it is at least negligent if not criminal. And don't get me started on those still disputing that man made climate change exists.

Wouldn't this rank along with southern cities getting hit with a blizzard? They don't have the infrastructure in place to mitigate a problem that rarely happens

I suppose that's not unreasonable in an abstract way but reality matters. If you're Washington DC and you used to get 2 inches of snow every other year and now you get, say, 5 inches every year, it may be time to change your assumptions. Miami's probably still safe from that particular impact but they've got other problems there. In Hawaii they apparently understood they were in the middle of a drought and they presumably know the characteristics of the land, i.e. lots of grasses, forests and other flammable matter. How much insight/foresight does it take to think the area is more susceptible to wildfires than ever before? Especially given the examples around the world (leaving aside Canada this year as being too recent to have had an impact yet). If people don't start thinking in new ways about new potential emergencies and how to deal with them, we're shit out of luck even before things get really real. Whatever Tommy T might think, it's not the same old, same old and thinking that way will get a lot of people dead.

Another example: My impression is that MA has experienced way more tornadoes and even more tornado warnings than ever before in my lifetime. Let's assume I'm right about that. None were especially damaging but if the responsible agencies aren't planning for that particular weather emergency to get worse and more frequent they're just not doing their jobs. I don't even know if my town or the surrounding towns has emergency sirens or if people would know what to do if they heard one. That needs to change pronto. If next spring/summer the governor and the head of the emergency management agency explain their failure to respond to a deadly tornado in a timely way with "how could we have known?" that will be plainly unacceptable.

Thinking ahead and responding to changing conditions is supposed to be what govt agencies and leaders do. Don't laugh. Why is it that so many people in Washington can see for example the emerging/developing crisis with social security but not with climate change? In Tommy's case, he appears to be handicapped by limited mental capacity but that's not true of everyone. Oh. Wait a minute. I'm beginning to see the problem.

[beantownbubba]

And right on time the Atlantic chimes in from Hawaii:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ntic+Daily

"The world doesn’t need more reminders that climate change is accelerating. But we’re going to keep getting them."

[beantownbubba]

More and different details might emerge over time, but right now what I'm reading is that the Hawaii fires are being blamed on drought, low humidity, high winds and a hurricane that was not a direct hit but which may have had exacerbating effects. But what I'm mostly hearing is that the Hawaiin authorities were vastly underprepared essentially because "this kind of thing doesn't happen here." If that ever was acceptable, it can't possibly be a reason to be unprepared in this era of climate change and increasingly severe climate disasters. This IS our reality and not recognizing it is at least negligent if not criminal. And don't get me started on those still disputing that man made climate change exists.

Wouldn't this rank along with southern cities getting hit with a blizzard? They don't have the infrastructure in place to mitigate a problem that rarely happens

What has become more clear to me over the past couple of days is just how fast the fires spread (partly driven by hurricane related winds which again ties the story very closely to climate change). Based on what I now understand I think it unlikely that even a better prepared government could have done much to prevent the initial wave of destruction (including deaths). To my mind, that doesn't change the need to be better prepared but like I said before, realism matters and there are limits on our ability to respond to some disasters in real time, which is a further argument to get at the source, i.e. to reduce the dangers of climate change by reducing the human contributions to it.