The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

[Mundane Mayhem]

Cuomo down! Cuomo down!

[Zip City]

Cuomo down! Cuomo down!

Seems like he could’ve skipped some steps there

[Mundane Mayhem]

Cuomo down! Cuomo down!

Seems like he could’ve skipped some steps there

I wonder what finally happened behind the scenes to force his hand. Either way, good riddance to bad rubbish.

[Swamp]

Better late than never. The gov of NY did the right thing. Now depending on which way you lean, you can bend this which ever way you like.

[Cole Younger]

Well old Andy is still a pervert but at least he’s not a pervert governor anymore. One down and no telling how many to go but progress is progress.

[Mundane Mayhem]

Well old Andy is still a pervert but at least he’s not a pervert governor anymore. One down and no telling how many to go but progress is progress.

Amen.

[tinnitus photography]

And so you assume my opinion before i can type it out. You asked for nuance and asked a question. Oh but you assume you know my answer?

Tinnutus is certain about everything from covid to the war on terror, i could probably recite verbatim your stance on the climate, abortion, the border, and ten other things.

funny how that works.

[LBRod]

Well old Andy is still a pervert but at least he’s not a pervert governor anymore. One down and no telling how many to go but progress is progress.

Next up, governor hair gel.

[Mundane Mayhem]

Thought this was relevant in a discussion about freedom, role of institutions, etc.

Jacobin is very much a left-wing publication, of course. That whole thing about acknowledging biases.

The anarchist tradition that Marx was acquainted with tended to think of freedom as a radical independence of individuals: that to be free from domination is to be free from dependence upon others, unless you agree to it.

Marx is starting from a similar point: an abhorrence of domination. But Marx thought that independence was impossible and undesirable under modern conditions, and that the modern development of the capitalist economy made us all dependent upon vast numbers of people whom we couldn’t possibly know personally.

In my book, I write that Marx wanted freedom without independence. He wanted to take the older notion of freedom to be free from domination, but also to make it compatible with a system in which we are dependent upon one another and upon large-scale social cooperation. This takes certain notions of what it means to be free from domination off the table.

One thing I’ve always appreciated about Marx is exactly the lack of moralizing described in this piece (and relevant to the prudishness that CY and others have brought up in this thread). It’s a materialist analysis. People don’t exploit others because they’re evil (typically), but rather because they are subject to the same system of production and accumulation.

Anyway, introducing Marx into this thread. What could go wrong?

[Flea]

Do you remember oprah in the mid eighties saying she would never eat another hamburger? Thats because mad cow disease was going around. Why? The fda decided to grind up dead cattle and feed them to cattle. The cattle market tanked after that. What? So oparah winfrey, in 1980 something, had enough power with people, that when she says she will never eat another hamburger, the beef market nearly crashes? How the fuck does that happen? So the cattlemans association sued oprah. She got to come to Amarillo and everything,

A minor correction:

Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy originated in the UK. The first case was confirmed in 1985. Far as I know, the FDA had no authority over the diet of cattle in the UK at that time.

[boyyourself]

Do you remember oprah in the mid eighties saying she would never eat another hamburger? Thats because mad cow disease was going around. Why? The fda decided to grind up dead cattle and feed them to cattle. The cattle market tanked after that. What? So oparah winfrey, in 1980 something, had enough power with people, that when she says she will never eat another hamburger, the beef market nearly crashes? How the fuck does that happen? So the cattlemans association sued oprah. She got to come to Amarillo and everything,

A minor correction:

Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy originated in the UK. The first case was confirmed in 1985. Far as I know, the FDA had no authority over the diet of cattle in the UK at that time.

You got me. I am getting vaxxed now because you talked me into trusting the fda. And i herd they almost aporoved their latest miracle. Mountain dew yes. Raw milk no. Thanks fduh.
And hey flea i thought you truly didnt give fuck. Looks to me like you care again.

[boyyourself]

I'm pretty safe to assume you have less faith in government than I do, on this point, and there wasn't a value judgment intended in that statement. If you're arguing with a libertarian, they're probably going to have libertarian perspectives on most issues. If you're arguing with a communist, they'll probably have a class-based analysis to throw at you on most issues. It's more to point out that it's almost an unbridgeable divide on questions like this. It wasn't intended to put words in your mouth, so I'm sorry if that's how it came across.

Got it. And what am i? Got a name for me? So quick to dileneate. I think of myself as human. Its how i officially identify maybe thats why i see these divides as totally bridgeable. And they are divides if you make them. Not evrryting has to mesh or be perfectly explained. It aint all black and white otherwise whats the point. Tharts the point.

Jesus Christ, can we take it down a notch? I didn't put you into any category and I apologized if it seemed like I was putting words in your mouth. I have seen enough of your thinking to strongly suspect that you would be less amenable than I am to government playing an active role in promoting health and wellness. If that's wrong, then we can talk about it without it being DON'T PUT ME IN A BOX HOW DARE YOU. I'm a lefty on, oh, 98% of issues. You can use that to shorthand how I'm likely to respond if you want. I might surprise you 2% of the time!

[boyyourself]

I'm pretty safe to assume you have less faith in government than I do, on this point, and there wasn't a value judgment intended in that statement. If you're arguing with a libertarian, they're probably going to have libertarian perspectives on most issues. If you're arguing with a communist, they'll probably have a class-based analysis to throw at you on most issues. It's more to point out that it's almost an unbridgeable divide on questions like this. It wasn't intended to put words in your mouth, so I'm sorry if that's how it came across.

Got it. And what am i? Got a name for me? So quick to dileneate. I think of myself as human. Its how i officially identify maybe thats why i see these divides as totally bridgeable. And they are divides if you make them. Not evrryting has to mesh or be perfectly explained. It aint all black and white otherwise whats the point. Tharts the point.

Jesus Christ, can we take it down a notch? I didn't put you into any category and I apologized if it seemed like I was putting words in your mouth. I have seen enough of your thinking to strongly suspect that you would be less amenable than I am to government playing an active role in promoting health and wellness. If that's wrong, then we can talk about it without it being DON'T PUT ME IN A BOX HOW DARE YOU. I'm a lefty on, oh, 98% of issues. You can use that to shorthand how I'm likely to respond if you want. I might surprise you 2% of the time!

Holy fucking shit god almighty sure as shit we can take it down. Its you that cant handle a go between. Maybe if you quit reading into the tone of my texts?????
Coverstions can never be good enough for you i guess. Then youre gonns be the one to put an explanation on the Unbridgeble gap!!!!!! Nice man.

I raised hell for people getting personal. You were one of them. Now you are on here all sensetive and trying to control the tone when again, i was just talking, sure as shit didnt question your character like youve done me. And we have to police ourselvez. I never heard from mods about covid thread. And i was not attacking anyone over there. I was getting called names aa usual. Nobody from admin did anything about that and they closed the thread. I was having a fun time calling them college boys. What an attack. A refrain from what i wanted to say after being called a transphobe, which i guess is allowed.

So maybe just dont get peronal in the first place. Then you arent asking me to tone down a tone you made up.
And now look, we are talking about me again. All because i responded to your post and i thought we were over here being grown ups. Grown ups dont tap out after getting super emotional then come on back and try to tell everyone else to tone it down.

[Mundane Mayhem]

Got it. And what am i? Got a name for me? So quick to dileneate. I think of myself as human. Its how i officially identify maybe thats why i see these divides as totally bridgeable. And they are divides if you make them. Not evrryting has to mesh or be perfectly explained. It aint all black and white otherwise whats the point. Tharts the point.

Jesus Christ, can we take it down a notch? I didn't put you into any category and I apologized if it seemed like I was putting words in your mouth. I have seen enough of your thinking to strongly suspect that you would be less amenable than I am to government playing an active role in promoting health and wellness. If that's wrong, then we can talk about it without it being DON'T PUT ME IN A BOX HOW DARE YOU. I'm a lefty on, oh, 98% of issues. You can use that to shorthand how I'm likely to respond if you want. I might surprise you 2% of the time!

Holy fucking shit god almighty sure as shit we can take it down. Its you that cant handle a go between. Maybe if you quit reading into the tone of my texts?????
Coverstions can never be good enough for you i guess. Then youre gonns be the one to put an explanation on the Unbridgeble gap!!!!!! Nice man.

I raised hell for people getting personal. You were one of them. Now you are on here all sensetive and trying to control the tone when again, i was just talking, sure as shit didnt question your character like youve done me. And we have to police ourselvez. I never heard from mods about covid thread. And i was not attacking anyone over there. I was getting called names aa usual. Nobody from admin did anything about that and they closed the thread. I was having a fun time calling them college boys. What an attack. A refrain from what i wanted to say after being called a transphobe, which i guess is allowed.

So maybe just dont get peronal in the first place. Then you arent asking me to tone down a tone you made up.
And now look, we are talking about me again. All because i responded to your post and i thought we were over here being grown ups. Grown ups dont tap out after getting super emotional then come on back and try to tell everyone else to tone it down.

I didn’t get emotional or personal, here or in the other thread (“Jesus Christ” notwithstanding I suppose). I made an educated guess (using the word “probably”) about how you were likely to respond, based on a decent amount of data and experience with your perspective. Anticipating the perspective of someone you’re in a conversation with is pretty basic rhetoric and empathy. I then apologized when it seemed like we were getting crosswise. Believe me, I won’t do it again. I’ve learned my lesson.

I responded substantively to your Oprah thing if you wanna continue the “grown up” conversation. Or we can keep on with this tiresome sidebar. Up to you really.

Good talk. See ya out there.

PS it’s just a funny video I wouldn’t read too much into it. If we’re analogizing it to this conversation, it’s like (in very broad strokes) “government should do things” vs. “no it shouldn’t.” That’s the divide I’m talking about.

[boyyourself]

I don’t want to import the Covid thread over here (but hey, since I tapped out of that one and stuck to it, I’m getting to share my thoughts on the subject and also keep my word on a technicality).

As others have pointed out over there, the most notable concerted push to help curb obesity and promote healthy lifestyles (at least in my memory) was Michelle Obama’s initiative to promote health among kids. As I recall, the Right lost its collective mind over that. Creeping nanny state socialism.

Of course there are other things that could help. We should look at agriculture subsidies and what foods are artificially cheap and abundant. We should look at addressing food deserts so people aren’t having to feed themselves at convenience stores. We should look at single-payer healthcare ( ) that focuses on prevention and wellness.

But most germane to the topic at hand, these are all long-term challenges, and people are dying in the meantime. Hence people saying “vax first, then we can discuss wellness.” Your response may be that the obese should vaccinate but it isn’t a one-size-fits-all solution, which has a grain of truth but in my opinion misses the larger point and which I have little interest in relitigating in any case.

Here’s an open-ended question: what is the government’s role to play in promoting the kind of holistic health you seem to be in favor of? Personal responsibility is great, but the idea this is going to change spontaneously and organically is fiction. How can the government help people “learn to be healthy” without raising the ire of people like you who distrust it inherently? If the government’s role is to drown itself in the bathtub, who’s gonna lead this charge? Everyone supports wellness. The devil is in the details, or the logistics as the case may be.

Do you remember oprah in the mid eighties saying she would never eat another hamburger? Thats because mad cow disease was going around. Why? The fda decided to grind up dead cattle and feed them to cattle. The cattle market tanked after that. What? So oparah winfrey, in 1980 something, had enough power with people, that when she says she will never eat another hamburger, the beef market nearly crashes? How the fuck does that happen? So the cattlemans association sued oprah. She got to come to Amarillo and everything,
How did we get to a place where so many people are watching daytime fucking tv to where oprah has that kind of power with the people? How the fuck should i know. And what do i care about someone who would sit on their ass and listen to oprah. Let me ask you this. Anyone. I dare you. What has happened to obesity rates since she said that in 1985? What if someone showed her reports of how carbs are the real killer and she said out loud shed never injest another (the human body does not need exogenous carbs) then she lost weight and a whole culture followed? Thats. Not what happened. Fast forward to now. Adele caught all kinds of shit for losing weight. How dare she. She even posted pics of her new better looking better feeling self. How dare she. Becsuse of the stigma and what not. So we shame people for losing weight. Seems like bit of a slippery slope we been sliding down for years.
Its not sustainable. Clearly.
But you have to consider many dont live like that. They just dont trend. Ever. Who cares about being outside and communing with humans and nature and the obvious benefits thereof? Certainly not the news or the cdc or Pfauci or any government agency, gmo grain, amazon, etc. All avoidable imo

No, I don't remember this because I was an infant in the mid-80s. I do know that I am barred from donating blood to this day because I was born in and lived in Germany during a time when Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (mad cow) was apparently running rampant and they apparently can't take any chances with my blood.

In terms of why obesity rates have increased, it's a good question. I think it probably has something to do with letting agribusiness set our policy agenda and "inform" our regulatory frameworks. But these things rarely have simple answers. Policy, culture, economics all play a role.

I don't know to what extent anything Oprah did or said actively changed behavior or is causally linked to the decline in the beef market that you describe, but it is an interesting counterpoint about one potential mechanism to change behavior (media) that has little to do with government.

I guess the issue with people living like you advocate is that if we're going to have a "modern" society, cities and towns are seemingly pretty essential, and there's probably not enough land to go around without destroying our wilderness and open spaces. America does have an absolute shitload of land relative to many of its peers, which points directly to an entirely different conversation about settler colonialism and dispossession of Native land that would really derail this thread. Also, land as an economic base that was denied to Black Americans (and actively given to White Americans) was something that MLK, Jr., was talking about at the end of his life as he pivoted from Civil Rights to economic justice issues, but that's also neither here nor there.

Humans developed agriculture, what, 10,000 years ago? Around the time they realized that settling in towns was preferable to hunter-gatherer lifestyles, and that dividing labor such that some people farm while other people cook and make art and play music for a living resulted in, presumably, a higher quality of life in aggregate. I think that horse has left the barn. Which isn't to say people with the space and the means shouldn't grow a garden or raise some chickens or whatever. Hell, "urban gardens" make that more viable even for people who don't have the space or the means. But I don't know that, at scale, "get back to nature" is a workable solution. Maybe I'm wrong.

Oh man, that last paragraph. You kind of actually just explained why, 10000 yrs ago, people "realizing it was preferrable" to move away from nature, and start storing grain, was completely unnecessary and misguided, and birthhed the corn syrup pandemic we now live in.
I will admit to being a dope on most things, but when it comes to industrial corprate ag vs more of a land healing animal respecting approach. Why and when all that happened and the complex resulting cosequences, and what we can do starting now, i will admit I am well versed.
Doesnt mean i know what the answers are moving forward. But we have a lot of history to work with regarding all cause mortalities like cancer, heart disease, etc,
Hell the inuits were only a few hundred years ago. They lived almost exclusively on animal protein and fat. Some frozen tubers if they were lucky. What happened to them when suddenly packaged grain was available year round? Sad. Same thing that happened to humanity at a much slower rate starting roughly 10000 yrs ago. Not immediate effects like throwing bread and soda at natives, but eventually has yielded the same results. We were already growing grain then. Doesnt mean we had to start storing it and controlling the food supply. Less people able to hunt only benefits the powers that be, and thats who controls the food.
the book Ishmael would likely much better explain the perspective of the perils of moving from hunter gatherer to agriculture. It didnt have to be a choice. There was grain involved in their lives, it was part of society. But to store it? Control it? Mono crop it? Process the shit out if it and put it at the BASE of the "food" pyramid? Oooooo boy. Not super well thought out regarding societal wellness. Coincedence? I wish. Now you can eat crackers all day.

Solutions. What are solutions. Its always a game of now what. And you are correct. There is plenty of land. 35 million acres of manicured lawns. 35 milllion acres of recreational horse property. Thats 70 million acres of grass being watered that does not produce food. In this country. We dont have to dawn loin cloths to get back to nature. We can respect nature. With growing food we can mimic nature. Mimicry is respect. We took away nature. No more buffalo. No more fire. We built civilizations in the forest now we all about fire suppression. Not good.
So nature mimicry is all we have left. And that to me is not gmo grain or california almonds or mexican berries.

[boyyourself]

Jesus Christ, can we take it down a notch? I didn't put you into any category and I apologized if it seemed like I was putting words in your mouth. I have seen enough of your thinking to strongly suspect that you would be less amenable than I am to government playing an active role in promoting health and wellness. If that's wrong, then we can talk about it without it being DON'T PUT ME IN A BOX HOW DARE YOU. I'm a lefty on, oh, 98% of issues. You can use that to shorthand how I'm likely to respond if you want. I might surprise you 2% of the time!

Holy fucking shit god almighty sure as shit we can take it down. Its you that cant handle a go between. Maybe if you quit reading into the tone of my texts?????
Coverstions can never be good enough for you i guess. Then youre gonns be the one to put an explanation on the Unbridgeble gap!!!!!! Nice man.

I raised hell for people getting personal. You were one of them. Now you are on here all sensetive and trying to control the tone when again, i was just talking, sure as shit didnt question your character like youve done me. And we have to police ourselvez. I never heard from mods about covid thread. And i was not attacking anyone over there. I was getting called names aa usual. Nobody from admin did anything about that and they closed the thread. I was having a fun time calling them college boys. What an attack. A refrain from what i wanted to say after being called a transphobe, which i guess is allowed.

So maybe just dont get peronal in the first place. Then you arent asking me to tone down a tone you made up.
And now look, we are talking about me again. All because i responded to your post and i thought we were over here being grown ups. Grown ups dont tap out after getting super emotional then come on back and try to tell everyone else to tone it down.

I didn’t get emotional or personal, here or in the other thread (“Jesus Christ” notwithstanding I suppose). I made an educated guess (using the word “probably”) about how you were likely to respond, based on a decent amount of data and experience with your perspective. Anticipating the perspective of someone you’re in a conversation with is pretty basic rhetoric and empathy. I then apologized when it seemed like we were getting crosswise. Believe me, I won’t do it again. I’ve learned my lesson.

I responded substantively to your Oprah thing if you wanna continue the “grown up” conversation. Or we can keep on with this tiresome sidebar. Up to you really.

Good talk. See ya out there.

PS it’s just a funny video I wouldn’t read too much into it. If we’re analogizing it to this conversation, it’s like (in very broad strokes) “government should do things” vs. “no it shouldn’t.” That’s the divide I’m talking about.

No hard feelings on my end. Just sick of defending myself and i do not have the ability to put lipstick on my posts, more than i already do.


Diverse and divide are related. Maybe depends on how ya look at it.

[Mundane Mayhem]

Do you remember oprah in the mid eighties saying she would never eat another hamburger? Thats because mad cow disease was going around. Why? The fda decided to grind up dead cattle and feed them to cattle. The cattle market tanked after that. What? So oparah winfrey, in 1980 something, had enough power with people, that when she says she will never eat another hamburger, the beef market nearly crashes? How the fuck does that happen? So the cattlemans association sued oprah. She got to come to Amarillo and everything,
How did we get to a place where so many people are watching daytime fucking tv to where oprah has that kind of power with the people? How the fuck should i know. And what do i care about someone who would sit on their ass and listen to oprah. Let me ask you this. Anyone. I dare you. What has happened to obesity rates since she said that in 1985? What if someone showed her reports of how carbs are the real killer and she said out loud shed never injest another (the human body does not need exogenous carbs) then she lost weight and a whole culture followed? Thats. Not what happened. Fast forward to now. Adele caught all kinds of shit for losing weight. How dare she. She even posted pics of her new better looking better feeling self. How dare she. Becsuse of the stigma and what not. So we shame people for losing weight. Seems like bit of a slippery slope we been sliding down for years.
Its not sustainable. Clearly.
But you have to consider many dont live like that. They just dont trend. Ever. Who cares about being outside and communing with humans and nature and the obvious benefits thereof? Certainly not the news or the cdc or Pfauci or any government agency, gmo grain, amazon, etc. All avoidable imo

No, I don't remember this because I was an infant in the mid-80s. I do know that I am barred from donating blood to this day because I was born in and lived in Germany during a time when Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (mad cow) was apparently running rampant and they apparently can't take any chances with my blood.

In terms of why obesity rates have increased, it's a good question. I think it probably has something to do with letting agribusiness set our policy agenda and "inform" our regulatory frameworks. But these things rarely have simple answers. Policy, culture, economics all play a role.

I don't know to what extent anything Oprah did or said actively changed behavior or is causally linked to the decline in the beef market that you describe, but it is an interesting counterpoint about one potential mechanism to change behavior (media) that has little to do with government.

I guess the issue with people living like you advocate is that if we're going to have a "modern" society, cities and towns are seemingly pretty essential, and there's probably not enough land to go around without destroying our wilderness and open spaces. America does have an absolute shitload of land relative to many of its peers, which points directly to an entirely different conversation about settler colonialism and dispossession of Native land that would really derail this thread. Also, land as an economic base that was denied to Black Americans (and actively given to White Americans) was something that MLK, Jr., was talking about at the end of his life as he pivoted from Civil Rights to economic justice issues, but that's also neither here nor there.

Humans developed agriculture, what, 10,000 years ago? Around the time they realized that settling in towns was preferable to hunter-gatherer lifestyles, and that dividing labor such that some people farm while other people cook and make art and play music for a living resulted in, presumably, a higher quality of life in aggregate. I think that horse has left the barn. Which isn't to say people with the space and the means shouldn't grow a garden or raise some chickens or whatever. Hell, "urban gardens" make that more viable even for people who don't have the space or the means. But I don't know that, at scale, "get back to nature" is a workable solution. Maybe I'm wrong.

Oh man, that last paragraph. You kind of actually just explained why, 10000 yrs ago, people "realizing it was preferrable" to move away from nature, and start storing grain, was completely unnecessary and misguided, and birthhed the corn syrup pandemic we now live in.
I will admit to being a dope on most things, but when it comes to industrial corprate ag vs more of a land healing animal respecting approach. Why and when all that happened and the complex resulting cosequences, and what we can do starting now, i will admit I am well versed.
Doesnt mean i know what the answers are moving forward. But we have a lot of history to work with regarding all cause mortalities like cancer, heart disease, etc,
Hell the inuits were only a few hundred years ago. They lived almost exclusively on animal protein and fat. Some frozen tubers if they were lucky. What happened to them when suddenly packaged grain was available year round? Sad. Same thing that happened to humanity at a much slower rate starting roughly 10000 yrs ago. Not immediate effects like throwing bread and soda at natives, but eventually has yielded the same results. We were already growing grain then. Doesnt mean we had to start storing it and controlling the food supply. Less people able to hunt only benefits the powers that be, and thats who controls the food.
the book Ishmael would likely much better explain the perspective of the perils of moving from hunter gatherer to agriculture. It didnt have to be a choice. There was grain involved in their lives, it was part of society. But to store it? Control it? Mono crop it? Process the shit out if it and put it at the BASE of the "food" pyramid? Oooooo boy. Not super well thought out regarding societal wellness. Coincedence? I wish. Now you can eat crackers all day.

Solutions. What are solutions. Its always a game of now what. And you are correct. There is plenty of land. 35 million acres of manicured lawns. 35 milllion acres of recreational horse property. Thats 70 million acres of grass being watered that does not produce food. In this country. We dont have to dawn loin cloths to get back to nature. We can respect nature. With growing food we can mimic nature.

Add golf courses to the mix. Interesting perspective. I’m not sure how we do this without completely upending the global economic and social order (capitalism *arguably* requires unending growth and consumption to sustain itself). But this helps me understand your perspective better.

[Flea]

Do you remember oprah in the mid eighties saying she would never eat another hamburger? Thats because mad cow disease was going around. Why? The fda decided to grind up dead cattle and feed them to cattle. The cattle market tanked after that. What? So oparah winfrey, in 1980 something, had enough power with people, that when she says she will never eat another hamburger, the beef market nearly crashes? How the fuck does that happen? So the cattlemans association sued oprah. She got to come to Amarillo and everything,

A minor correction:

Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy originated in the UK. The first case was confirmed in 1985. Far as I know, the FDA had no authority over the diet of cattle in the UK at that time.

You got me. I am getting vaxxed now because you talked me into trusting the fda. And i herd they almost aporoved their latest miracle. Mountain dew yes. Raw milk no. Thanks fduh.
And hey flea i thought you truly didnt give fuck. Looks to me like you care again.

You do you, boo. Just correcting a factual error.

[boyyourself]

No, I don't remember this because I was an infant in the mid-80s. I do know that I am barred from donating blood to this day because I was born in and lived in Germany during a time when Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (mad cow) was apparently running rampant and they apparently can't take any chances with my blood.

In terms of why obesity rates have increased, it's a good question. I think it probably has something to do with letting agribusiness set our policy agenda and "inform" our regulatory frameworks. But these things rarely have simple answers. Policy, culture, economics all play a role.

I don't know to what extent anything Oprah did or said actively changed behavior or is causally linked to the decline in the beef market that you describe, but it is an interesting counterpoint about one potential mechanism to change behavior (media) that has little to do with government.

I guess the issue with people living like you advocate is that if we're going to have a "modern" society, cities and towns are seemingly pretty essential, and there's probably not enough land to go around without destroying our wilderness and open spaces. America does have an absolute shitload of land relative to many of its peers, which points directly to an entirely different conversation about settler colonialism and dispossession of Native land that would really derail this thread. Also, land as an economic base that was denied to Black Americans (and actively given to White Americans) was something that MLK, Jr., was talking about at the end of his life as he pivoted from Civil Rights to economic justice issues, but that's also neither here nor there.

Humans developed agriculture, what, 10,000 years ago? Around the time they realized that settling in towns was preferable to hunter-gatherer lifestyles, and that dividing labor such that some people farm while other people cook and make art and play music for a living resulted in, presumably, a higher quality of life in aggregate. I think that horse has left the barn. Which isn't to say people with the space and the means shouldn't grow a garden or raise some chickens or whatever. Hell, "urban gardens" make that more viable even for people who don't have the space or the means. But I don't know that, at scale, "get back to nature" is a workable solution. Maybe I'm wrong.

Oh man, that last paragraph. You kind of actually just explained why, 10000 yrs ago, people "realizing it was preferrable" to move away from nature, and start storing grain, was completely unnecessary and misguided, and birthhed the corn syrup pandemic we now live in.
I will admit to being a dope on most things, but when it comes to industrial corprate ag vs more of a land healing animal respecting approach. Why and when all that happened and the complex resulting cosequences, and what we can do starting now, i will admit I am well versed.
Doesnt mean i know what the answers are moving forward. But we have a lot of history to work with regarding all cause mortalities like cancer, heart disease, etc,
Hell the inuits were only a few hundred years ago. They lived almost exclusively on animal protein and fat. Some frozen tubers if they were lucky. What happened to them when suddenly packaged grain was available year round? Sad. Same thing that happened to humanity at a much slower rate starting roughly 10000 yrs ago. Not immediate effects like throwing bread and soda at natives, but eventually has yielded the same results. We were already growing grain then. Doesnt mean we had to start storing it and controlling the food supply. Less people able to hunt only benefits the powers that be, and thats who controls the food.
the book Ishmael would likely much better explain the perspective of the perils of moving from hunter gatherer to agriculture. It didnt have to be a choice. There was grain involved in their lives, it was part of society. But to store it? Control it? Mono crop it? Process the shit out if it and put it at the BASE of the "food" pyramid? Oooooo boy. Not super well thought out regarding societal wellness. Coincedence? I wish. Now you can eat crackers all day.

Solutions. What are solutions. Its always a game of now what. And you are correct. There is plenty of land. 35 million acres of manicured lawns. 35 milllion acres of recreational horse property. Thats 70 million acres of grass being watered that does not produce food. In this country. We dont have to dawn loin cloths to get back to nature. We can respect nature. With growing food we can mimic nature.

Add golf courses to the mix. Interesting perspective. I’m not sure how we do this without completely upending the global economic and social order (capitalism *arguably* requires unending growth and consumption to sustain itself). But this helps me understand your perspective better.

It is my big hairy audacios goal to manage a golf course with animals. Like they originally had to. So im officially looking for backers. I know plenty of billionares, might ask one of them. Process and bbq that sweet protien and serve it in the clubhouse with no dress code.
It would be grand.

[boyyourself]

A minor correction:

Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy originated in the UK. The first case was confirmed in 1985. Far as I know, the FDA had no authority over the diet of cattle in the UK at that time.

You got me. I am getting vaxxed now because you talked me into trusting the fda. And i herd they almost aporoved their latest miracle. Mountain dew yes. Raw milk no. Thanks fduh.
And hey flea i thought you truly didnt give fuck. Looks to me like you care again.

You do you, boo. Just correcting a factual error.

You do too, boo. Thats classic.
Reminds me of a poem a friend wrote to a lady...
Sure do
Want to
Do you

[beantownbubba]

Under the wonderful headline "Republicans Find Themselves At Odds With The Military, The Private Sector and Local Control in a WaPo newsletter:

"Republicans used to reliably exalt the military, line up with the private sector against regulation and extol the virtues not just of a government that governs best by governing least but of local control over top-down fiats. No more.

"A look at the carnival ride that is Republican politics in 2021 shows the GOP at odds with institutions and principles that used to be written into the party’s DNA, perhaps especially the idea government closest to the people knows best."

That's quite the trifecta.

[Mundane Mayhem]

Under the wonderful headline "Republicans Find Themselves At Odds With The Military, The Private Sector and Local Control in a WaPo newsletter:

"Republicans used to reliably exalt the military, line up with the private sector against regulation and extol the virtues not just of a government that governs best by governing least but of local control over top-down fiats. No more.

"A look at the carnival ride that is Republican politics in 2021 shows the GOP at odds with institutions and principles that used to be written into the party’s DNA, perhaps especially the idea government closest to the people knows best."

That's quite the trifecta.

It's really wild to watch. I thought the corporate wing of the party was going to reassert control post-Trump, but that is very obviously not happening. I don't know how much longer the old GOP coalition can hold together.

[boyyourself]

https://www.savingcountrymusic.com/the- ... at-venues/

[boyyourself]

Speaking about cloth masks, Osterholm said, “They actually only have very little impact in reducing the amount of virus that you inhale or exhale out.”

That is Bidens former advisor on covid and epidemiolgist dr michael osterholm. Recently.

Then this:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... s-n1276534

False claims!! False claims!!!! So they suspend him from youtube. The people need to hear that a piece of garbage is somehow effective for something other than choking a fish or watching your n95 stock go up.

I am keeping track of this game of narrative control for the safety of the people. Dont like it. Dont agree with it.
Havent agreed with it forever. Rand paul getting banned from youtube just pushes their own needle backwards, plenty of us already are of the opinion that masks are garbage. Trying to force me to believe otherwise by eliminating dissenting opinions? Oldest powers that be tactic of all time. And has been completely rendered ineffrctive in this day and age. But they tryyyyyyyyyyyyyy dont they.

[boyyourself]

Once they banned imagine it became the same the same old war its always been. Goddamn does that line inpire me to try like hell not to project on my kid. And she knows it. They were gonna play it in salt lake and we were gonna sing together and it was gonna be great.
I try to give her all the info and let her decide. Rough on her and certainly imbalanced. But she adjusted. Quicker than most. Certainly never tried to hide lifes dirty details, not signaling here, just saying. On way back from salt lake was visiting with a gentleman at the tasty freeze, we were discussing all this and the kid says to the guy. " yeah i have a liberal ass mom and this guy for a dad so thats where my perspectives come from" well said kid.
Shes 14 now and absolutely flourishing. Vaxxed and masked up to start high school. She made her own choices based on ALL the info and compared it to reallty.
I have one hundred percent respect for her choices. Even though school said vaxxed didnt have to mask. Then the science changed now they are required. Fuckers.
Oh well. Full respect to the kid it just is no longer her body her choice. She knows that too. I get it. Her friends are incredible people and she loves playing sports.

So it is my opinion that you make opinions available, no matter how dirty you think they are, some of us think filth is purity, and then let the chips fall.
"Cencorship is bullshit" sturgill simpson

[tinnitus photography]

does anyone have a lead on any low-fee N95 stock index funds?

[Mundane Mayhem]

Speaking about cloth masks, Osterholm said, “They actually only have very little impact in reducing the amount of virus that you inhale or exhale out.”

That is Bidens former advisor on covid and epidemiolgist dr michael osterholm. Recently.

And then what did he say? That we should all stop wearing masks because what difference does it make?

No, he said we should talk about wearing better masks. He also said all of this misses the “main point, which is ‘vaccine, vaccine, vaccine.’”

I don’t like wearing a mask either. Vaccines were and are the best and safest way out.

I always try to link a source if I’m going to summarize it or quote from it.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/we ... rotect-you

[Zip City]

I have a feeling that Paul's video got yanked more for his choice of delivery than for the content itself. Social media is going to be extra vigilant about videos from politicians looking to rise up against the government

[Mundane Mayhem]

As to whether YT was right or wrong to yank Rand Paul’s video and suspend his account? I’m pretty ambivalent. He’s getting more attention now via the Streisand Effect than that video would’ve ever gotten. Do people really seek out YouTube videos from sitting US Senators? Sounds very boring.

I’m sure there’s more objectionable shit on YouTube that they haven’t removed.

[Zip City]

As to whether YT was right or wrong to yank Rand Paul’s video and suspend his account? I’m pretty ambivalent. He’s getting more attention now via the Streisand Effect than that video would’ve ever gotten. Do people really seek out YouTube videos from sitting US Senators? Sounds very boring.

I’m sure there’s more objectionable shit on YouTube that they haven’t removed.

The video first got attention on Twitter, which is where most Senators throw out the red meat