The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

This forum is for talking about non-music-related stuff that the DBT fanbase might be interested in. This is not the place for inside jokes and BS. Take that crap to some other board.

Moderators: Jonicont, mark lynn, Maluca3, Tequila Cowboy, BigTom, CooleyGirl, olwiggum

Cole Younger
Posts: 3989
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:42 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:26 am
Reckon what’s going to happen with ol Andy Cuomo? I don’t believe much of anything will.
What should happen to him?
I don’t know. Did I say something should? I’m old enough to remember #metoo.
Last edited by Cole Younger on Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

beantownbubba
Posts: 21748
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

I really don't care if the people of Idaho have the opportunity to buy powerball tickets. And I don't have any idea of what the policy and economic arguments may be for or against expanding the powerball lottery to Australia and the UK. But one thing I do know is that anyone who thinks that expanding the pool of potential players changes the odds of any single person winning, in Idaho or anywhere else, is a fucking moron who should not be allowed to hold public office. The irony of her saying "you don't have to be a mathematician" is almost too perfect. You shouldn't need to be a member of the elite or to have a certain amount of money or to have a certain kind or number of degrees to hold elective office but you shouldn't be an idiot either.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/11/us/i ... Position=1

"State Representative Heather Scott, a Republican, noted that an Idahoan had not won the jackpot in 10 years.

“You don’t have to be a mathematician to realize more people are going to be involved in that,” she said, “and the chances, since we had zero in 10 years, is going to be decreased.” (Powerball odds are calculated by the numbers that can be picked rather than the number of people who buy in, according to Powerball.)"
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

beantownbubba
Posts: 21748
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Cole Younger wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:47 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:42 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:26 am
Reckon what’s going to happen with ol Andy Cuomo? I don’t believe much of anything will.
What should happen to him?
I don’t know. Did I say something should? I’m old enough to remember #metoo.
If you were not implying that something should happen then I misunderstood you. My apologies.

Yeah, I remember #metoo, too. This is yet another example of a serious, fundamental tension we have created. Yes, women's allegations of harrassment and assault had been dismissed all to easily and needed to be taken more seriously. I believe that. And yes, an accused is innocent until proven guilty. I believe that, too. I also believe we need to understand what we're doing and how we're doing it a lot better than we do now if we care at all about fairness and justice for all. At a minimum we need to acknowledge gradations of offensive/wrong conduct and gradations of appropriate punishments. Questions of proof also need to be considered and balanced against the need to take allegations seriously. As far as I can tell none of those things exist, certainly not in the "court" of public opinion and social media. Anybody who thinks this is easy or obvious is kidding themselves or has chosen one value to be more important than others (which is also a legitimate position, at least sometimes).
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

John A Arkansawyer
Posts: 7894
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 9:51 am
Location: Little Rock, Arkansaw
Contact:

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

I'm sure you've all been wondering...

What Makes a Good Conspiracy Theory?
We’ll never get rid of them, but can we at least process them better?

Doug Muder wrote:My rare attempt at bipartisanship. If conspiracy theories appear in both parties, then sensible people in both parties should want to debunk them. That’s why I was pleased to see someone I rarely agree with, New York Times conservative columnist Ross Douthat, contribute to that effort a little while ago with “A Better Way to Think About Conspiracies“.

He starts with the following observation: The only way to get rid of conspiracy theories completely is to induce everyone to accept the expert consensus on everything. Not only is that never going to happen, it shouldn’t happen, because sometimes the expert consensus is self-serving or corrupt or just wrong in the ordinary people-make-mistakes way. I mean, how many experts told us that Saddam had WMDs, or that Trump couldn’t possibly beat Hillary? Worse, occasionally there are real conspiracies, like Nixon’s Plumbers or the baseball owners’ free-agency collusion.

So if we can’t just deny all conspiracies, or insist that people believe whatever the experts say, what can we do?
Ross Douthat wrote:If you assume that people will always believe in conspiracies, and that sometimes they should, you can try to give them a tool kit for discriminating among different fringe ideas, so that when they venture into outside-the-consensus territory, they become more reasonable and discerning in the ideas they follow and bring back.
Douthat suggests a few sorting principles that can keep people from falling down the Q-Anon rabbit hole.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

beantownbubba
Posts: 21748
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:54 pm
What Makes a Good Conspiracy Theory?
We’ll never get rid of them, but can we at least process them better?
If you ignore the fundamental flaw, this is really very good. The flaw? The exact people one would want to follow these rules are the exact people who never will. Even so, I suppose that if a large group of people take this seriously it might keep some conspiracy theories from reaching critical (i.e. "popular") mass. It might also provide some guidance for social media sites trying to respond to spreading conspiracies, but that feels like a longshot.

As an aside I didn't understand what the writer (referencing Douthat) is saying about Jeffrey Epstein. If anyone can provide some guidance I'd appreciate it.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

John A Arkansawyer
Posts: 7894
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 9:51 am
Location: Little Rock, Arkansaw
Contact:

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

beantownbubba wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:45 pm
If you ignore the fundamental flaw, this is really very good. The flaw? The exact people one would want to follow these rules are the exact people who never will. Even so, I suppose that if a large group of people take this seriously it might keep some conspiracy theories from reaching critical (i.e. "popular") mass. It might also provide some guidance for social media sites trying to respond to spreading conspiracies, but that feels like a longshot.
That's far too pessimistic. This is the sort of thing I share with my conservative, Trump-supporting relatives who have not gone batshit crazy. They are in the minority, but I have a few. Over time, this sort of thing will reach some of them. I also talk to them about how I make rough arithmetic guesses about whether something is plausible number-wise, and I point out times when I think my side is doing it. I suppose I'm losing some sort of internet argument when I do that, but you know, fuck internet arguments and Debate: The Game as a way of regaining consensus reality, 'cause it doesn't work.
beantownbubba wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:45 pm
As an aside I didn't understand what the writer (referencing Douthat) is saying about Jeffrey Epstein. If anyone can provide some guidance I'd appreciate it.
I bit the bullet and read the full Douthat, which turns out to be pretty good. Here's the relevant paragraph:
Ross Douthat wrote:If you tell me that the C.I.A. killed John F. Kennedy, I will be dismissive, because the boring official narrative of his assassination — hawkish president killed by a Marxist loner who previously tried to assassinate a right-wing general — fits the facts perfectly well on its own. But if you tell me that some mysterious foreign intelligence agency was involved in Jeffrey Epstein’s strange career, I will be more open to your theories, because so much about Epstein’s dizzying ascent from prep school math teacher to procurer to the famous and the rich remains mystifying even now.
I'd rather both he and Muder had emphasized this isn't proof something is wrong with the Epstein story, just that it makes it more plausible that something is wrong with the Epstein story.* It's a subtle distinction worth hammering into peoples' heads with a sledgehammer.

*I think Epstein was murdered by Allen Klein.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

beantownbubba
Posts: 21748
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:32 pm
That's far too pessimistic.
I hope you're right.
John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:32 pm
Here's the relevant paragraph:
Thanks. And yes, the subtle distinction you draw is well worth making.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

beantownbubba
Posts: 21748
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

According to the NYT, there were 1.9 TRILLION trades in the "penny stock" market last month, up TWO THOUSAND PERCENT from a year earlier. This is a disaster waiting to happen, kind of like no money down, no credit check mortgages. The carnage will be ugly and widespread.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

beantownbubba
Posts: 21748
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

I don't really have anything to say about yet another white male religious nut w/ a gun killing a bunch of people not like him but I don't think the deaths should pass totally unremarked upon or unacknowledged. :cry: :cry:

I guess the LEO involved sorta apologized, but I gotta say that "he just had a bad day" remark set some kind of record for outrageousness.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

beantownbubba
Posts: 21748
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

I know nobody reading this is surprised but the numbers are truly staggering.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/20/opin ... 029039208a
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

LBRod
Posts: 4362
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:15 pm
Location: Beneath Pacheco Pass

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:37 am

I guess the LEO involved sorta apologized, but I gotta say that "he just had a bad day" remark set some kind of record for outrageousness.
Get out of your bubble, bubba. The LEO was reporting what the killer said, not giving his own opinion.
Of course it was taken out of context and blown up in media circles. It's what they do.
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff.

beantownbubba
Posts: 21748
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

LBRod wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:32 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:37 am

I guess the LEO involved sorta apologized, but I gotta say that "he just had a bad day" remark set some kind of record for outrageousness.
Get out of your bubble, bubba. The LEO was reporting what the killer said, not giving his own opinion.
Of course it was taken out of context and blown up in media circles. It's what they do.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it, with or without bubbles. Note that the Shefiff's Dept apologized for "Captain Baker's words."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sh ... r-n1261447
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

LBRod
Posts: 4362
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:15 pm
Location: Beneath Pacheco Pass

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:04 pm

That's my story and I'm sticking to it, with or without bubbles.
Like the cop being killed by a fire extinguisher at the Capitol.
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff.

Cole Younger
Posts: 3989
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

LBRod wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:32 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:37 am

I guess the LEO involved sorta apologized, but I gotta say that "he just had a bad day" remark set some kind of record for outrageousness.
Get out of your bubble, bubba. The LEO was reporting what the killer said, not giving his own opinion.
Of course it was taken out of context and blown up in media circles. It's what they do.
As the great Hank Cochran used to say, “Isn’t all this wonderful?”
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

beantownbubba
Posts: 21748
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

LBRod wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:10 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:04 pm

That's my story and I'm sticking to it, with or without bubbles.
Like the cop being killed by a fire extinguisher at the Capitol.
I'm sorry Rod. I'm not trying to be obtuse. Maybe I just come by it naturally, but whatever the reason, I don't get your point here. Is it that because the media is sometimes wrong it must always be wrong? I'm not ready to go there. If it's that we all ought to take news w/ several grains of salt and make sure of the facts being reported, I'm definitely in on that but I don't know how it applies to the Captain's quoted comments.

I have only a surface-y understanding of the fire extinguisher situation but my understanding is that the Times relied on apparently reliable sources who could reasonably be expected to know the correct details. While it's never good for the media, especially the newspaper of record, to get something wrong, in this case it does not seem like the problem was with their reporting but rather with the quality of their sources' information. That doesn't make the result right or good and it's no reason to let our guard down, but it's hard to see the analogy to the Georgia situation where the quoted source was apparently quoted correctly.

Note that in both cases, our insatiable demand for immediate reporting on complex events greatly increases the odds that initial reporting will be wrong, sometimes significantly so. Definitely something for all of us to keep in mind. I personally would prefer slightly slower and somewhat more accurate reporting but that's not the way the world is these days so we should all be on notice that it's reader/listener beware.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

beantownbubba
Posts: 21748
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Cole Younger wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:56 pm
LBRod wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:32 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:37 am

I guess the LEO involved sorta apologized, but I gotta say that "he just had a bad day" remark set some kind of record for outrageousness.
Get out of your bubble, bubba. The LEO was reporting what the killer said, not giving his own opinion.
Of course it was taken out of context and blown up in media circles. It's what they do.
As the great Hank Cochran used to say, “Isn’t all this wonderful?”
This seems to be my day to be particularly obtuse but fwiw I don't get your point CY.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

Cole Younger
Posts: 3989
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

@bubba, no I didn’t really think anybody would. I was talking to Rod and you but sort of talking to myself too. It was just a general statement about the way things are in this country right now. There is some overlap in the things that I think are screwed up and the things that most of y’all do but for the most part no one gives a damn about the things I give a damn about and folks are up in arms over things that I don’t see as important. But regardless things seem pretty jacked up and most of what I’m talking about is domestic issues. I do t care about those in terms of what it will mean for me. If things went totally sideways tonight I would be ok. I live completely different from most people here and have skills and resources most here do not have. That’s not me looking down my nose it’s just true. Like when you said nothing had ever caused you to realize how different our lives are than when you realized that I can walk out my back door and be in the middle of two hundred acres of woods. I’m not one of these people that wants to play tacti-cool survivor man but I do live a much more old fashioned lifestyle than your average three dimes downer or average American for that matter. I’ll be fine. My family will be fine. But if things go the way I think they are going to go based on all the civil unrest of the last year it is going to be bad for a lot of people. I mostly don’t even pay attention to anything in the news anymore or whatever the outrage of the day is because it puts me in a bad mood and I dont like to be in a bad mood. And as Sturgill said, “Bullshit on the TV, bullshit on the radio, Hollywood tellin me how to be me, the bullshit’s got to go.” I’ve removed most of it from my life. But I believe things are going to get messy and a lot of lives are going to be ruined. All I can do is watch and say, isn’t all this wonderful?😎
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

LBRod
Posts: 4362
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:15 pm
Location: Beneath Pacheco Pass

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:04 pm

That's my story and I'm sticking to it, with or without bubbles. Note that the Shefiff's Dept apologized for "Captain Baker's words."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sh ... r-n1261447
I'll try this one more time. Note that the details of the story give a different impression than do the headlines.
The captain saying those words does not make them the captain's words. Also, the sheriff's spokesman acknowledging
that the comments were "construed as insensitive" is not really an apology.
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff.

Cole Younger
Posts: 3989
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

LBRod wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:15 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:04 pm

That's my story and I'm sticking to it, with or without bubbles. Note that the Shefiff's Dept apologized for "Captain Baker's words."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sh ... r-n1261447
I'll try this one more time. Note that the details of the story give a different impression than do the headlines.
The captain saying those words does not make them the captain's words. Also, the sheriff's spokesman acknowledging
that the comments were "construed as insensitive" is not really an apology.
Rod people still think Sarah Palin said she could see Russia from her house. The woman on Saturday Night Live said it and who cares either way? But it’s just an example of how this stuff goes. People want affirmation rather than information. There are no real news shows anymore. It’s all political cheerleading because that’s what people want.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

beantownbubba
Posts: 21748
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

I know that facts and common sense have no place in any "debate" or discussion of guns in this country, but what the hell. Sadly, the NYT had cause to once again reprint Nicholas Kristof's 2017 op ed, which is chock full of both useful facts and thoughtful common sense and opinions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... 029039208a

The estimable Heather Cox Richardson's daily blog post for 3/23 is a typically thoughtful and expert brief review of the history of the Second Amendment.

https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.c ... ch-23-2021
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

Cole Younger
Posts: 3989
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

The biggest problem I have with the gun debate is most of the people who want to do the debating don’t know anything about guns at all.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

User avatar
Flea
Posts: 4132
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:33 am
Location: Underneath the veneer

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Flea »

Cole Younger wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:50 am
The biggest problem I have with the gun debate is most of the people who want to do the debating don’t know anything about guns at all.
Philosophically speaking - does one need to know intimately the vagueries and dogma of Catholicism (e.g.) to debate the existence of a supreme being?
Now it's dark.

User avatar
cortez the killer
Posts: 15456
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:22 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

Image
Hand guns are made for killin'
They ain't no good for nothin' else
And if you like to drink your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself
So why don't we dump 'em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some ol' fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
- DPM

Cole Younger
Posts: 3989
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

Flea wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:59 am
Cole Younger wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:50 am
The biggest problem I have with the gun debate is most of the people who want to do the debating don’t know anything about guns at all.
Philosophically speaking - does one need to know intimately the vagueries and dogma of Catholicism (e.g.) to debate the existence of a supreme being?
No I don’t think so but this is not the same. Almost every time it comes up the same buzz words and catch phrases are offered up like “assault weapons” or questions about magazines. For some reason the AR 15 terrifies people and I personally think that is mostly based on the way it looks. The majority of shootings are done with hand guns but hand guns don’t seem to be anywhere near the forefront of the debate. Also, because the people who want gun control don’t know what they are talking about in most instances they don’t even know what guns are capable of what and aren’t even aware of certain calibres that are capable of the exact same thing as an AR 15. I can kill a deer at a hundred yards with a .22 magnum and can get mags that hold a lot of ammo for it but most proponents of gun control don’t even know what a .22 magnum is. It can do the exact same thing as an AR 15.

Also, if I was person who wanted to cause a maximum amount of damage in a very short period of time an AR 15 or a gun with the magazines we hear about would be my last choice. I would take a plain old shot gun, not even a high caliber shotgun, a twenty gague, take the plug out of so that it could hold five rounds instead of the standard three, load it up with buckshot, and carry enough shells to fill both hip pockets. A person armed with what I just described could kill double the number of people and probably more in the same space of time someone with an AR 15 or someone with several high volume magazines could in the same space of time. But people who want gun control don’t know any of this and most of them don’t care. They’re being whipped into a frenzy by the same old people who always do that.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

Zip City
Posts: 17313
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:59 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

Question (and I honestly don't know the answer): are these shooters choosing guns like the AR 15 because of the damage they can do, or are they choosing them because of the look (re: fantasy)? An AR 15 LOOKS cooler/tougher/more like an action movie/video game than a hand gun or shotgun.

Or are they easier to aim/control than a hand gun?
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

User avatar
dime in the gutter
Posts: 9013
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:46 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by dime in the gutter »

what type guns are used most often in mass shootings?

what type guns are used most often in standard, run of the mill, person on person murdering? street crimes, spouse shootings and preacher killings?

eta: i see cole already referenced hand guns being used in a majority of shootings.

Cole Younger
Posts: 3989
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

Zip City wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:48 pm
Question (and I honestly don't know the answer): are these shooters choosing guns like the AR 15 because of the damage they can do, or are they choosing them because of the look (re: fantasy)? An AR 15 LOOKS cooler/tougher/more like an action movie/video game than a hand gun or shotgun.

Or are they easier to aim/control than a hand gun?
Well hand guns are used in most killings. I think the AR gets focused upon because of the way it looks. You often hear “military style weapon” which is just click bait and done to freak people out and the people that use words like that know what they’re doing when they use them. Chicago is a good example of how effective gun control is.

Edit because I realized that I didn’t answer part of your question. No, an AR isn’t easier to aim or control than a hand gun and in a situation where it’s close range which most shootings are it is an even worse option than a hand gun.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

chuckrh
Posts: 3001
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

Cole Younger wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:26 pm
Flea wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:59 am
Cole Younger wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:50 am
The biggest problem I have with the gun debate is most of the people who want to do the debating don’t know anything about guns at all.
Philosophically speaking - does one need to know intimately the vagueries and dogma of Catholicism (e.g.) to debate the existence of a supreme being?
No I don’t think so but this is not the same. Almost every time it comes up the same buzz words and catch phrases are offered up like “assault weapons” or questions about magazines. For some reason the AR 15 terrifies people and I personally think that is mostly based on the way it looks. The majority of shootings are done with hand guns but hand guns don’t seem to be anywhere near the forefront of the debate. Also, because the people who want gun control don’t know what they are talking about in most instances they don’t even know what guns are capable of what and aren’t even aware of certain calibres that are capable of the exact same thing as an AR 15. I can kill a deer at a hundred yards with a .22 magnum and can get mags that hold a lot of ammo for it but most proponents of gun control don’t even know what a .22 magnum is. It can do the exact same thing as an AR 15.

Also, if I was person who wanted to cause a maximum amount of damage in a very short period of time an AR 15 or a gun with the magazines we hear about would be my last choice. I would take a plain old shot gun, not even a high caliber shotgun, a twenty gague, take the plug out of so that it could hold five rounds instead of the standard three, load it up with buckshot, and carry enough shells to fill both hip pockets. A person armed with what I just described could kill double the number of people and probably more in the same space of time someone with an AR 15 or someone with several high volume magazines could in the same space of time. But people who want gun control don’t know any of this and most of them don’t care. They’re being whipped into a frenzy by the same old people who always do that.
Also, if I was person who wanted to cause a maximum amount of damage in a very short period of time an AR 15 or a gun with the magazines we hear about would be my last choice. I would take a plain old shot gun, not even a high caliber shotgun, a twenty gague, take the plug out of so that it could hold five rounds instead of the standard three, load it up with buckshot, and carry enough shells to fill both hip pockets. A person armed with what I just described could kill double the number of people and probably more in the same space of time someone with an AR 15 or someone with several high volume magazines could in the same space of time. But people who want gun control don’t know any of this and most of them don’t care. They’re being whipped into a frenzy by the same old people who always do that.

Thought about that a lot? Should we be worried?

Cole Younger
Posts: 3989
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

chuckrh wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:19 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:26 pm
Flea wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:59 am


Philosophically speaking - does one need to know intimately the vagueries and dogma of Catholicism (e.g.) to debate the existence of a supreme being?
No I don’t think so but this is not the same. Almost every time it comes up the same buzz words and catch phrases are offered up like “assault weapons” or questions about magazines. For some reason the AR 15 terrifies people and I personally think that is mostly based on the way it looks. The majority of shootings are done with hand guns but hand guns don’t seem to be anywhere near the forefront of the debate. Also, because the people who want gun control don’t know what they are talking about in most instances they don’t even know what guns are capable of what and aren’t even aware of certain calibres that are capable of the exact same thing as an AR 15. I can kill a deer at a hundred yards with a .22 magnum and can get mags that hold a lot of ammo for it but most proponents of gun control don’t even know what a .22 magnum is. It can do the exact same thing as an AR 15.

Also, if I was person who wanted to cause a maximum amount of damage in a very short period of time an AR 15 or a gun with the magazines we hear about would be my last choice. I would take a plain old shot gun, not even a high caliber shotgun, a twenty gague, take the plug out of so that it could hold five rounds instead of the standard three, load it up with buckshot, and carry enough shells to fill both hip pockets. A person armed with what I just described could kill double the number of people and probably more in the same space of time someone with an AR 15 or someone with several high volume magazines could in the same space of time. But people who want gun control don’t know any of this and most of them don’t care. They’re being whipped into a frenzy by the same old people who always do that.
Also, if I was person who wanted to cause a maximum amount of damage in a very short period of time an AR 15 or a gun with the magazines we hear about would be my last choice. I would take a plain old shot gun, not even a high caliber shotgun, a twenty gague, take the plug out of so that it could hold five rounds instead of the standard three, load it up with buckshot, and carry enough shells to fill both hip pockets. A person armed with what I just described could kill double the number of people and probably more in the same space of time someone with an AR 15 or someone with several high volume magazines could in the same space of time. But people who want gun control don’t know any of this and most of them don’t care. They’re being whipped into a frenzy by the same old people who always do that.

Thought about that a lot? Should we be worried?
Lol. If guys like me were the problem it would be a whole lot worse. I can guarantee you that.

No you don’t have anything to fear from me or anyone else who will be affected by gun control laws because we are law abiding. Thus we are the the only ones that this will be anything more than a letter to Santa. The folks who perpetrate evil are going wipe their ass with gun control laws because they don’t care about laws. Same way drug laws don’t stop drugs. Unlike yourself I’m not pissed off at the world and am a happy person. From what I can see you’re a whole lot more likely to freak out and do something crazy than anybody here. I’m way more likely to help someone in trouble, even a miserable little shit like yourself, than I am to hurt an innocent person. So you can sleep well, you’re good. :lol:
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

beantownbubba
Posts: 21748
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Cole Younger wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:26 pm
Almost every time it comes up the same buzz words and catch phrases are offered up like “assault weapons” or questions about magazines. For some reason the AR 15 terrifies people and I personally think that is mostly based on the way it looks. The majority of shootings are done with hand guns but hand guns don’t seem to be anywhere near the forefront of the debate. Also, because the people who want gun control don’t know what they are talking about in most instances they don’t even know what guns are capable of what and aren’t even aware of certain calibres that are capable of the exact same thing as an AR 15. I can kill a deer at a hundred yards with a .22 magnum and can get mags that hold a lot of ammo for it but most proponents of gun control don’t even know what a .22 magnum is. It can do the exact same thing as an AR 15.
What I like about the Kristof piece is that it sounds almost as if he's responding to you personally*about these exact points. He seems to know what he's talking about equipment-wise, he distinguishes between handguns, AR-15's, etc in what seem to me to be the right ways and distinguishes between the kinds of problems that might and might not be addressable, based in part on those distinctions. As just one example I think both his data and commentary about the relationship between handguns and suicide are very, please excuse the expression, targeted and perceptive.

*To be extra cautious and clear I understand that he's not in any way responding directly to CY's comments/POV.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

Post Reply