The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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LBRod
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

;;;vv
beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:54 pm
I think we're talking about what rural people want v. what urban people want as expressed in their collective or cumulative political actions/decisions/votes and the people they elect to represent them.
Like Tuesday in Georgia? The winners do not represent rural people.
Out my way Difi and Kamala do not represent central CA farm country.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

LBRod wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:03 am
Like Tuesday in Georgia? The winners do not represent rural people.
Out my way Difi and Kamala do not represent central CA farm country.
I don't understand.

I don't know who Difi is.

Doesn't Devin Nunes represent at least a chunk of CA farm country?

The run off election in GA (and the presidential election) is widely seen as a victory of newly empowered urban areas over traditional rural areas. It would be wrong to call Georgia either a rural state or an urban state which is why it's a swing state.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

LBRod wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:03 am
;;;vv
beantownbubba wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:54 pm
I think we're talking about what rural people want v. what urban people want as expressed in their collective or cumulative political actions/decisions/votes and the people they elect to represent them.
Like Tuesday in Georgia? The winners do not represent rural people.
Out my way Difi and Kamala do not represent central CA farm country.
Not sure who Difi is, but in reference to Kamala and Biden, on 1/20, they most certainly DO represent central CA farmers.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by bovine knievel »

Dianne Feinstein = Difi
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by oilpiers »

Iowan wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:58 pm
oilpiers wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:32 pm
Iowan wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:29 am


That's the woman of color I'd rather see in the White House. Total bad ass.
"That's the person I'd rather see in the White House. Total bad ass." Fixed it.
No disagreement. I'm just pointing out that I like Abrams a hell of a lot more than Harris.
I like her better than pretty much anyone now. Sharper than shit, and fearless.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by jr29 »

LBRod wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:00 pm
Zip City wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:51 pm

You know what we never hear? "Why won't rural folk work to understand urban folk?"
Rural folk aren't trying to tell urban folk how to live. They just want to be left alone.
What do you mean ?
I'm from a very, very rural place and no one ever bothers people there. They seem to constantly worry about it though.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

jr29 wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:58 am
LBRod wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:00 pm
Zip City wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:51 pm

You know what we never hear? "Why won't rural folk work to understand urban folk?"
Rural folk aren't trying to tell urban folk how to live. They just want to be left alone.
What do you mean ?
I'm from a very, very rural place and no one ever bothers people there. They seem to constantly worry about it though.
Perhaps that is more of a rural California thing. Having decisions made by LA & Bay area voters gets annoying.
It leads to laws and regulations that make no sense out here in farm country, and even less for the mountain dwellers.
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

LBRod wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:59 pm
Perhaps that is more of a rural California thing. Having decisions made by LA & Bay area voters gets annoying.
It leads to laws and regulations that make no sense out here in farm country, and even less for the mountain dwellers.
Yeah, I see what you're saying on an in state thing where one party controls the state. FWIW this kind of thing has been around since well before our recent polarization. For example growing up in NYC, the upstate (more rural)/downstate thing was a constant in state politics breeding conflict, resentment and distrust on both sides. Your view on this is pretty much the same as the reality long experienced by "liberals" (i.e. non Republicans) in traditional Southern states. As Patterson has noted more than once, 40% of Alabamians often don't agree with the politicians regularly elected to represent them in both state and federal legislatures. I would argue that the problem is worse in those places because CA is at least big enough to create districts that elect folks like Devin Nunes while in Alabama, Doug Jones's brief run as a Senator was a once in a lifetime (so far, anyway) aberration.
Last edited by beantownbubba on Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by jr29 »

LBRod wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:59 pm
jr29 wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:58 am
LBRod wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:00 pm


Rural folk aren't trying to tell urban folk how to live. They just want to be left alone.
What do you mean ?
I'm from a very, very rural place and no one ever bothers people there. They seem to constantly worry about it though.
Perhaps that is more of a rural California thing. Having decisions made by LA & Bay area voters gets annoying.
It leads to laws and regulations that make no sense out here in farm country, and even less for the mountain dwellers.
Fair enough. I've heard the same thing from folks in Illinois.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by jr29 »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:11 pm
LBRod wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:59 pm
Perhaps that is more of a rural California thing. Having decisions made by LA & Bay area voters gets annoying.
It leads to laws and regulations that make no sense out here in farm country, and even less for the mountain dwellers.
Yeah, I see what you're saying on an in state thing where one party controls the state. FWIW this kind of thing has been around since well before our recent polarization. For example growing up in NYC, the upstate (more rural)/downstate thing was a constant in state politics breeding conflict, resentment and distrust on both sides. Your view on this is pretty much the same as the reality long experienced by "liberals" (i.e. non Republicans) in traditional Southern states. As Patterson has noted more than once, 40% of Alabamians often don't agree with the politicians regularly elected to represent them in both state and federal legislatures. I would argue that the problem is worse in those places because CA is at least big enough to create districts that elect folks like Devin Nunes while in Alabama, Doug Jones's brief run as a Senator was a once in a lifetime (so far, anyway) aberration.
I don't feel represented in any way by my elected officials in Tennessee. I'm consistently embarrassed and disgusted by them. That's coming from a rural raised, non-college educated, semi-truck driving white guy whose roots go back generations in this state.

I've floated the idea of moving somewhere else to my wife, but jobs and family obligations will probably keep us here for quite a few years. Mississippi is the butt of a lot of jokes and has a bad reputation, but i'd feel much prouder if I lived there these days.
I've become kind of obsessed with finding a rural, liberal leaning place to live one of these days. Most likely somewhere in Wisconsin, Iowa....maybe Mississippi.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by schlanky »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:11 pm
LBRod wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:59 pm
Perhaps that is more of a rural California thing. Having decisions made by LA & Bay area voters gets annoying.
It leads to laws and regulations that make no sense out here in farm country, and even less for the mountain dwellers.
....As Patterson has noted more than once, 40% of Alabamians often don't agree with the politicians regularly elected to represent them in both state and federal legislatures. I would argue that the problem is worse in those places because CA is at least big enough to create districts that elect folks like Devin Nunes while in Alabama, Doug Jones's brief run as a Senator was a once in a lifetime (so far, anyway) aberration.
As a lifelong Alabama resident who grew up in a pretty rural place, I completely agree. Jones was still more moderate than I'd prefer, but he voted the way I wanted on the big stuff and at least wasn't shitty Jeff Sessions or Mo Brooks or fucking Tommy Tuberville or Dick Shelby etc etc (and don't even get me started on governors in my lifetime). I'm considering switching my party declaration to Republican just to be able to vote against the least shitty Republican candidate in primaries and then vote Independent or Democrat in general elections.

I agree that a lot of the rural folks around here want to be left alone, but there's a double-standard. They want to be left alone when it comes to themselves, but too many of them are completely fine with people who don't think like them being told how to live. I say this based on things I've observed regarding religion, abortion, confederate monuments, acceptance of homosexuals, alcohol*, pot legalization.

* though some of the opposition to alcohol in the dry counties comes from the bootleggers who don't want to lose easy money.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

schlanky wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:10 pm
I agree that a lot of the rural folks around here just want to be left alone, but there's a double-standard. They want to be left alone when it comes to themselves, but too many of them are completely fine with people who don't think like them being told how to live.
I think this is the crux of this recent discussion. As this has proceeded I think we've also collectively added the important questions of who really speaks for whom and how fair (or maybe meaningful?) is it to generalize about people or places based on broad stroke, un-nuanced results like elections. The irony or frustration is that whatever the differences are between groups and whatever generalizations we want to make, it seems that pretty much everyone has the same complaints and the same resentments no matter where they come from geographically or politically. While I suppose one might conclude from this that it should be easier to understand each other, the evidence clearly points in the opposite direction.

If there is a political genius out there who can figure out how to start that conversation and bridge that divide, s/he will set the tone and direction for this country for the next 50 - 75 years a la FDR. If there isn't we can expect sub-geniuses to try to galvanize singular, separate portions of that overall constituency and feed their resentments, fears and sense of isolation leading to further polarization and no good end. It is clear which approach Biden is trying but it remains to be seen whether he will be successful at it. The barriers in his way are both obvious (I'm looking at you, Cruz, Hawley, McConnell, whatever remains of Trump and their ilk) and subtle.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

schlanky wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:10 pm

I agree that a lot of the rural folks around here want to be left alone, but there's a double-standard. They want to be left alone when it comes to themselves, but too many of them are completely fine with people who don't think like them being told how to live.
Yeah that shit is annoying. Seems to come from a small, but engaged minority. Much like on the left.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Flea »

jr29 wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:23 pm

I've become kind of obsessed with finding a rural, liberal leaning place to live one of these days. Most likely somewhere in Wisconsin, Iowa....maybe Mississippi.
Pretty much anywhere 15 to 20 minutes outside of Asheville NC fits that bill. That's where I'm heading very very soon. Wife is already in our little chalet on a mountainside south of Black Mountain. I'm so fucking ready to Spanish Pipedream this hogshit place I live that I can't stand it.
Now it's dark.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by jr29 »

Flea wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:44 pm
jr29 wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:23 pm

I've become kind of obsessed with finding a rural, liberal leaning place to live one of these days. Most likely somewhere in Wisconsin, Iowa....maybe Mississippi.
Pretty much anywhere 15 to 20 minutes outside of Asheville NC fits that bill. That's where I'm heading very very soon. Wife is already in our little chalet on a mountainside south of Black Mountain. I'm so fucking ready to Spanish Pipedream this hogshit place I live that I can't stand it.
I've thought of that and also a couple spots in Virginia. The future traffic situation around Asheville does concern me.
Memphis is a special place and I love it, but the draw of the country is damn near overwhelming.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Flea »

jr29 wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:46 pm
Flea wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:44 pm
jr29 wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:23 pm

I've become kind of obsessed with finding a rural, liberal leaning place to live one of these days. Most likely somewhere in Wisconsin, Iowa....maybe Mississippi.
Pretty much anywhere 15 to 20 minutes outside of Asheville NC fits that bill. That's where I'm heading very very soon. Wife is already in our little chalet on a mountainside south of Black Mountain. I'm so fucking ready to Spanish Pipedream this hogshit place I live that I can't stand it.
I've thought of that and also a couple spots in Virginia. The future traffic situation around Asheville does concern me.
Memphis is a special place and I love it, but the draw of the country is damn near overwhelming.
I know. This is my soon to be home.

Image

Image

Image
Now it's dark.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by jr29 »

Flea wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:03 pm
jr29 wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:46 pm
Flea wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:44 pm


Pretty much anywhere 15 to 20 minutes outside of Asheville NC fits that bill. That's where I'm heading very very soon. Wife is already in our little chalet on a mountainside south of Black Mountain. I'm so fucking ready to Spanish Pipedream this hogshit place I live that I can't stand it.
I've thought of that and also a couple spots in Virginia. The future traffic situation around Asheville does concern me.
Memphis is a special place and I love it, but the draw of the country is damn near overwhelming.
I know. This is my soon to be home.

Image

Image

Image
Shit yeah....good for you, my friend.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

Can I put up a tent out back?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Flea »

LBRod wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:27 pm
Can I put up a tent out back?
You don't need a tent, brother. You can sleep inside with the dogs! :lol:
Now it's dark.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

"Politics needs a leave us alone coalition"

https://reason.com/2021/01/08/in-2021-p ... coalition/
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

The pandemic has not only tragically killed more than 300,000 Americans, but has led to previously unimaginable restrictions on our freedom to live our lives as we choose.
what are these unimaginable restrictions on our freedom? the need to wear a mask when going inside a public space, because there's a pandemic occurring? if there were no restrictions in place, that tragic number of 300K would be higher. which side does this person want to argue?
We awake each morning pondering the terms upon which our leaders will even allow us to leave our homes
are recommendations the same as martial law? has anyone been detained or arrested for being outside their homes?
How many people think this not-particularly magical thing called "government" has calmly guided us through the coronavirus crisis?
how many people think that if we had a more functional government and leader, we'd have been a lot better off? from the start, Trump had no clue or strategy, denied we had a problem, ignored the findings and directives of his own task force, and then begged off any responsible and claimed the states were on their own. is it any wonder we found ourselves in a fractured, mis-matched mess of a 'solution'?
Our society, however, was founded on the idea that individuals generally know what's best for themselves and they should be left alone to pursue their dreams free from unchecked dictates, albeit within a framework of checks and balances.
i guess this is where the libertarians and conservatives get their genitals all excited... that they don't feel like public health officials are the ones to roll out those checks and balances.
when we transfer too many decisions from individuals to government, we give imperfect politicians and regulators power to make choices for us based on their limited insights and political interests.
when we need a unified strategy and approach to this universal problem, instead we've got millions of individuals doing what they think is best instead. is that really the best approach?
We need not agree on religion, share the same cultural preferences, or come from the same regions, but we can unite in the belief that the government should basically just leave us the heck alone.
except for dictating things like abortion, legalization of drugs, etc. those can't be up to individuals to make their own choices. see how this works? (ha, i typed that before i read the rest of his statement, which is accurate).



lol i read the comments and people were attacking the writer as if he were left of Bernie.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

^^^ If one thinks that it's in society's interest to battle and minimize the effects of a pandemic, we now have about 10 months of evidence. And what we have learned, among other things, is that an incompetent government will act incompetently and that too many individuals just don't give a fuck about anyone and have no interest in contributing to the common good. I don't see a lot of winners there. But governments can and do change and hopefully we'll get some competence. I do not see any of these anti maskers having a lightning bolt moment and suddenly starting to wear masks and buy groceries for the high risk among us.

The problem is that when political theory meets reality, reality wins and the theory has got to be adapted. One can't keep insisting that the greatest good for the greatest number results from the cumulative unfettered actions of individuals when that is simply provably not true.
Last edited by beantownbubba on Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Courtesy of OBL from a friend of hers who got it from an unknown author. Luckily the substance stands on its own whatever the attribution (though I hope it wasn't written by Goebbels).

“In case you are confused, here is some guidance: Huge numbers of our population believe in a complete alternate reality. Alternate facts as it were. But just as intensely as I believe they are deluded, they think I am the one who is deluded. Maybe I am.

“So how can I be confident in my perception? It can be quite difficult. But I have found that in times of confusion, particularly when emotions are running high and creating tunnel vision, the presence of Nazis can be an extremely helpful indicator.

“If I am attending a local demonstration or event and I see Nazis…neo-Nazis, miscellaneous-Nazis or the latest-whatever-uber-mythology-Nazis, I figure out which side they are on. And if they are on my side of the demonstration? I am on the wrong side.

“It is tough to argue moral equivalence when I am standing next to a Nazi. Look to my right. Is there a guy wearing a 6MWE (6 million wasn’t enough) t-shirt? I am on the wrong side.

“Look to my left. If that guy is wearing a Camp Auschwitz t-shirt? Wrong side. Speakers referring to things Hitler got right? Wrong side.

“Team-spirit face paint and hat with horns? This is an unclear indicator that could mean anything but safest to keep my distance from that guy even at a football game.

“But I can always, always, always, rely on the presence of Nazis as a guiding light through a fog of disinformation. Some things are relative, but evil and good are absolute.”
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

And while we're on the subject of Nazis and ignorance about Nazi history, somebody called Jeanine Pirro, w/ whom I am not familiar but know is on Fox News, so there's a hint, apparently called the social media backlash against Parler "akin to Kristallnacht," thus proving that she either doesn't know what Kristallnacht was or is so fundamentally stupid she shouldn't be allowed out on her own. The relationship between Kristallnacht and banning Parler from Amazon is exactly, precisely, inarguably zero. While a TV "news" reporter or talking head or whatever she is has some greater responsibility to know what the fuck she's talking about, I know that not everybody is as up to speed on the Nazi era as I am. If you don't get this, please ask and I will try to explain it (although I suspect there are plenty of better resources easily accessible on the web).
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

tinnitus photography wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:28 pm

lol i read the comments and people were attacking the writer as if he were left of Bernie.
The comments at Reason are an unrestrained shit show. Sometimes good for entertainment, but usually best to avoid.

The author is in LA, where ever increasing government lock downs have ruined lots of small businesses,
while the virus continues to run amok.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

LBRod wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:31 pm
tinnitus photography wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:28 pm

lol i read the comments and people were attacking the writer as if he were left of Bernie.
The comments at Reason are an unrestrained shit show. Sometimes good for entertainment, but usually best to avoid.

The author is in LA, where ever increasing government lock downs have ruined lots of small businesses,
while the virus continues to run amok.
Causation =\= Correlation

The virus in LA could be many times worse without the lockdowns
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

Zip City wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:50 pm

The virus in LA could be many times worse without the lockdowns
Could be, but tell that to the people being run out of business.
The powers that be are trying to force everybody to stay home,
which happens to be where most of the viral transmission happens.

Staying home is not a problem for me. I'm retired and live alone.
Also not a problem for the rich in their big homes.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

LBRod wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:17 am
Zip City wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:50 pm

The virus in LA could be many times worse without the lockdowns
Could be, but tell that to the people being run out of business.
The powers that be are trying to force everybody to stay home,
which happens to be where most of the viral transmission happens.

Staying home is not a problem for me. I'm retired and live alone.
Also not a problem for the rich in their big homes.
Reopening the businesses accomplishes what? Keeps some people afloat while extending the time for this to end.

The failure is not in the lockdowns. The failure is in the government not helping people keep their heads above water with stimulus.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

LBRod wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:31 pm
tinnitus photography wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:28 pm

lol i read the comments and people were attacking the writer as if he were left of Bernie.
The comments at Reason are an unrestrained shit show. Sometimes good for entertainment, but usually best to avoid.

The author is in LA, where ever increasing government lock downs have ruined lots of small businesses,
while the virus continues to run amok.
don't get me wrong, i have a lot of sympathy for small businesses... they are in a horrible place. if i owned a restaurant, i would do what i could in order to survive and the patchwork of restrictions and compliance measures must have been maddening to work within.

the govt should have figured out a way to put all mortgage payments/debt service on pause for some sort of duration, for both people and businesses who couldn't generate their normal income because of the pandemic. easier said than done i'm sure, but it's a goddamn mess right now.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

LBRod wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:17 am
Zip City wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:50 pm

The virus in LA could be many times worse without the lockdowns
Could be, but tell that to the people being run out of business.
The powers that be are trying to force everybody to stay home,
which happens to be where most of the viral transmission happens.


Staying home is not a problem for me. I'm retired and live alone.
Also not a problem for the rich in their big homes.
so, the virus magically enters via the HVAC units and families get infected?

no, it's transmitted by social interaction and proximity, when people are out of the house and then return. a lot of people (still!) are not taking this seriously. hell, i work w/ a contractor who lives in chicago, went to a wedding in florida over NYE, tested negative and is still quarantining and can't be on site in massachusetts (due to her company policy, not the state policy), so she's working remotely in a hotel 100 yards from me. fuck her.

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