The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

This forum is for talking about non-music-related stuff that the DBT fanbase might be interested in. This is not the place for inside jokes and BS. Take that crap to some other board.

Moderators: Jonicont, mark lynn, Maluca3, Tequila Cowboy, BigTom, CooleyGirl, olwiggum

beantownbubba
Posts: 19423
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

LBRod
Posts: 4214
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:15 pm
Location: Beneath Pacheco Pass

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

Interesting, but not politics.
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff.

User avatar
cortez the killer
Posts: 13414
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:22 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

LBRod wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:30 pm
Interesting, but not politics.
In theory, I'm with you. Unfortunately, the reality is this pandemic (and much of science in general) has been dragged into the the political morass.
I am a lost soul
I shoot myself with rock & roll

User avatar
Clams
Posts: 13829
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:16 pm
Location: City of Brotherly Love

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Clams »

cortez the killer wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:17 pm
the reality is this pandemic (and much of science in general) has been dragged into the the political morass.
Ya think??
Looking for an acceptable level of bullshit I can live with

User avatar
cortez the killer
Posts: 13414
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:22 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

Clams wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:35 pm
cortez the killer wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:17 pm
the reality is this pandemic (and much of science in general) has been dragged into the the political morass.
Ya think??
I do. I get the impression LBRod doesn't.
I am a lost soul
I shoot myself with rock & roll

User avatar
tinnitus photography
Posts: 6410
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:49 pm
Contact:

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

at one point in everyone's life, this is their theme song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDe1Dqx ... =OasisVEVO

beantownbubba
Posts: 19423
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

LBRod wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:30 pm
Interesting, but not politics.
I disagree. In another universe at another time this might be one element of a solely or mostly public health/medical issue and not appropriate for a political discussion. But that's not the universe or the time we currently inhabit.

The biggest debates related to the coronavirus are (i) questions about whether and to what extent to limit or prohibit public interactions ("lockdown issues"); (ii) questions about whether and to what extent schools should be open for in person education ("schools"); (iii) issues related to mask wearing mandates ('masks"); and (iv) issues relating to the development, application and distribution of a vaccine which are not relevant here.

1, 2 & 3 have been nothing but political footballs since the president made masks into a political and symbolic issue. But even aside from what I would characterize as his inflammatory rhetoric, the decisions about how to fight the virus involve very political questions concerning legal fundamentals like the state power to mandate mask wearing and to impose business restrictions and practical realities like politicians, political parties, interest groups of all kinds and talking heads taking very politicized sides between masks/no masks; in school or out; and lockdowns, no lockdowns or limited lockdowns. I know the school issue has made my city crazy in the way few issues have over my 30 years living here. We've even got lawn signs.

Central to each of these political debates are questions relating to how bad and lethal the virus is, who is most affected/at risk and who is likely to transmit the virus. It has been a longstanding belief among some parties that support a particular set of outcomes on the mask, school and lockdown issues that this virus is only a serious threat to old, fat and sick people [and people of color*] and is particularly non-threatening to the young [and probably white]. Whatever we decide w/ respect to the old, fat, sick [and Black] people, the argument goes, the rest of us (especially the young, healthy and white among us) should be left alone and allowed to live our lives as we choose and should especially be allowed to go to school and not wear masks. If it turns out that one of the central assumptions underlying those policy positions is wrong, that's inherently political and should** impact the substance of the current debates and the ultimate decisions made/solutions implemented.

So, yeah, I think this is the right place for my initial post.

* I hate this phrase but could not figure out a better one that wasn't 3x as long
*It's 2020 so I'm going w/ "should." In ordinary times that would be more like "will".
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

LBRod
Posts: 4214
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:15 pm
Location: Beneath Pacheco Pass

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

cortez the killer wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:43 pm
Clams wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:35 pm
cortez the killer wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:17 pm
the reality is this pandemic (and much of science in general) has been dragged into the the political morass.
Ya think??
I do. I get the impression LBRod doesn't.
Plenty about the covid mess has been ridiculously politicized. I just thought this article was not political.
It doesn't even mention Trump. ;)

There is a covid thread, and I thought this article should be there, instead of here.
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff.

User avatar
tinnitus photography
Posts: 6410
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:49 pm
Contact:

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

LBRod wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:30 pm
cortez the killer wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:43 pm
Clams wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:35 pm

Ya think??
I do. I get the impression LBRod doesn't.
Plenty about the covid mess has been ridiculously politicized. I just thought this article was not political.
It doesn't even mention Trump. ;)

There is a covid thread, and I thought this article should be there, instead of here.
it doesn't have to mention Trump. but the numbers do tell a lot about how nations have responded to this challenge. total cases doesn't tell the entire story because the amount of testing plays a big role in that, so let's cut to the bottom line. deaths. the US is not the leader when normalized for population in this category, but you can see from these graphs that only Italy has really had the same amount of deaths in the second wave (when we should have learned a lot more about controlling the virus) as the first (France's data look kinda weird, lots of spikes).


deaths per 100K population:
Image

deaths over time, US
Image

deaths over time, Italy
Image

deaths over time, France
Image

deaths over time, Spain
Image

deaths over time, UK
Image

beantownbubba
Posts: 19423
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

And so, after everything; after the yelling and posturing and lying and hand wringing and stress and anxiety and craziness. After all of it, it still comes down to the same damn one thing: Russia. All hail Vlad, who kicked our asses from coast to coast and back again. Unwitting dupe, pliant puppet, blackmailed coward, it doesn't matter. And after all of that, 74 MILLION PEOPLE thought he should continue as our president. There is no getting around just how fucked we as a country are.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

User avatar
Flea
Posts: 3936
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:33 am
Location: Underneath the veneer

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Flea »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:11 pm
And so, after everything; after the yelling and posturing and lying and hand wringing and stress and anxiety and craziness. After all of it, it still comes down to the same damn one thing: Russia. All hail Vlad, who kicked our asses from coast to coast and back again. Unwitting dupe, pliant puppet, blackmailed coward, it doesn't matter. And after all of that, 74 MILLION PEOPLE thought he should continue as our president. There is no getting around just how fucked we as a country are.

So let's get to the point, let's roll another joint
Let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I gotta go
And you don't know how it feels
Now it's dark.

beantownbubba
Posts: 19423
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

I don't know what you call a system of government where the legislative body passes a 5,500 page bill on 2 hours notice with nobody able to read the entire bill or even an adequate summary of it, but it's not democracy, it's not representative democracy and it's not a republic. Nor is this the first time this has happened. Who knows what manner of evil and stupidity is buried in those pages, as happened w/ the 2017 tax bill? Trillions of dollars being tossed around like candy and nobody, NOBODY, is minding the store. This is no way to run a country. But hey we can bemoan the state of things while having a 3 martini lunch because that's now deductible, so there's that.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

beantownbubba
Posts: 19423
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

That Trump is such a card. This threatened veto/$2000 stimulus demand has got McConnell et al tied up in knots. I guess it's just sport for sport's sake but if it weren't so damn serious it would be hysterically funny.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

User avatar
tinnitus photography
Posts: 6410
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:49 pm
Contact:

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

it's not like congress DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO FIGURE THIS FUCKING SHIT OUT, right?


User avatar
oilpiers
Posts: 1428
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 10:46 am
Location: Louisville Ky

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by oilpiers »

William Yabba Dabba Barr could complete the Bedrock Pardon Trifecta.

Image

User avatar
tinnitus photography
Posts: 6410
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:49 pm
Contact:

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

people are slobs.

definitely shouldn't have used any masks this year though. more room in the ocean for cigarette butts and grocery bags.

User avatar
bovine knievel
Posts: 9223
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:40 pm
Location: Pollyanna doesn't live here.

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by bovine knievel »

Got the government cheese deposited last night
“Excited people get on daddy’s nerves.” - M. Cooley

Zip City
Posts: 16557
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:59 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

bovine knievel wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:31 pm
Got the government cheese deposited last night

I doubt I'm getting any (though I got the first stimulus for some reason....we shoved it into a savings account assuming we'd have to pay it back come tax time)
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

User avatar
bovine knievel
Posts: 9223
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:40 pm
Location: Pollyanna doesn't live here.

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by bovine knievel »

Zip City wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:56 pm
bovine knievel wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:31 pm
Got the government cheese deposited last night

I doubt I'm getting any (though I got the first stimulus for some reason....we shoved it into a savings account assuming we'd have to pay it back come tax time)
Wise man, Zip.

I’m going to use part of mine to fund Wolf’s debt.
“Excited people get on daddy’s nerves.” - M. Cooley

User avatar
tinnitus photography
Posts: 6410
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:49 pm
Contact:

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

bovine knievel wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:24 pm
Zip City wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:56 pm
bovine knievel wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:31 pm
Got the government cheese deposited last night

I doubt I'm getting any (though I got the first stimulus for some reason....we shoved it into a savings account assuming we'd have to pay it back come tax time)
Wise man, Zip.

I’m going to use part of mine to fund Wolf’s debt.
:lol:


as of 2021, I will be issuing a limited series of Wolf Bonds. get them while they are still available! good yield!

305 Engine
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:53 am

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

It's actually really awful that a man reduces his (ahem...) beliefs to a bet on an internet forum and then fails to step up when he was proven wrong. In it's own way it's a defeat of all we believe in and perhaps all should be ashamed.

In another way, it's very fucking funny.

User avatar
tinnitus photography
Posts: 6410
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:49 pm
Contact:

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

I'm sure he's banking on Louie fucking Gohmert.

:lol:

User avatar
pearlbeer
Posts: 986
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:56 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

Ugh. I had hoped to have significantly less political stress in my life in 2021. This is not the week...Cruz, Georgia.... :?

MAKE POLITICS BORING AGAIN!
Love each other, Motherfuckers!

LBRod
Posts: 4214
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:15 pm
Location: Beneath Pacheco Pass

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

pearlbeer wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:43 pm

MAKE POLITICS BORING AGAIN!
There's a slogan I can support. If only the government wasn't so big, it wouldn't be so important.
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff.

User avatar
pearlbeer
Posts: 986
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:56 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

LBRod wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:01 pm
pearlbeer wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:43 pm

MAKE POLITICS BORING AGAIN!
There's a slogan I can support. If only the government wasn't so big, it wouldn't be so important.
Careful...shrinking the Government cedes control to Corporations, and it will likely never return. I get what you are saying, and understand your frustration...but, careful what you wish for!
Love each other, Motherfuckers!

beantownbubba
Posts: 19423
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

pearlbeer wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:43 pm
MAKE POLITICS BORING AGAIN!
You've got my vote.
pearlbeer wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:28 pm
Careful...shrinking the Government cedes control to Corporations, and it will likely never return. I get what you are saying, and understand your frustration...but, careful what you wish for!
See The New Industrial State by John Kenneth Galbraith. It's old but still holds up at least in broad strokes, which is all I remember anyway. Galbraith argues that the post-war American economy was in a sweet spot because of countervailing forces, roughly equal powers that served as the economic version of political checks and balances. The 3 branches of this ideal state were government, unions and businesses (corporations). The first to go were unions and we've seen what devastating results that has had on the working and middle classes. The idea of government and corporations being oppositional forces is something of a joke but as cynical as one wants to be, it can't be argued that the 2 have merged or that government exercises no checks on business. Remove those checks so that the "last force standing" is business and I have to agree, we will be very sorry what we've wished for. Perhaps there are alternatives to government as the countervailing power to corporations but if so, that power has yet to emerge.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

User avatar
tinnitus photography
Posts: 6410
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:49 pm
Contact:

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

curious to see who's had dealings with unions, from the other side. spill it.

LBRod
Posts: 4214
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:15 pm
Location: Beneath Pacheco Pass

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

Big business owns the government. Part of the reason they are doing so well right now, while the little guys are getting crushed.

Oversimplified generality, yes, but there is some there there.
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff.

beantownbubba
Posts: 19423
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

LBRod wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:59 pm
Big business owns the government. Part of the reason they are doing so well right now, while the little guys are getting crushed.

Oversimplified generality, yes, but there is some there there.
As I said in my post, I agree with that to a point and my purpose now is not to quibble about where each of us draws the line. What I want to do is ask this question, which I think is very hard to answer: If we assume that business controls government and we reduce the amount of government how does that lessen corporate control over the remaining government or over our lives; or put another way, how does reducing government result in a decrease in corporate power? I'm not being rhetorical or snarky, if there's a good answer to that question I'd love to learn it.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard.

Post Reply