The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

Is that what you did for Halloween? I was Donnie Baker.
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beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

boyyourself wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:00 pm
Then she went to her car and gave me an entire plate
of fresh homemade cinnamon rolls.
This turned into a real stream of consciousness, but perhaps you'll be able to follow it :lol:

It probably goes too far to say that it took the homemade cinnamon rolls to make the story good, but damn, a whole plate of fresh homemade cinnamon rolls! Baked by Mennonites!! (I don't know much about Mennonites but I know that a group of them in MO makes "Missouri Truckle" the best cheddar cheese I've ever tasted and I live near VT). The 12 year old next door really likes to bake and I long ago volunteered to be her guinea pig so I can't really complain, but cinnamon rolls are not [yet] in her repertoire. And just to bring the story full circle, due to covid safe rules our candy was so far from our house that I can't even tell you what she dressed up as for Halloween. :)
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boyyourself
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by boyyourself »

Mennonite Cinnamon Roll has been turned into an album title already. With halloween in the mix. Masks and funny little hats. Or no costume at all.

305 Engine
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

beantownbubba wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:09 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:35 pm
BUT, there is literally a confederate flag hanging in someone's front yard no more than two miles from my house. This is western Colorado.
What should I do? Throw rocks at there house as I drive by? Nah, I don't like being a dumbass. Are they dumbasses for flying that flag? I don't know. Who am I. Maybe they have a great granddaddy who fought in the civil war. Maybe it's to honor him and nothing else. Fuck If I know. I don't know them.
IMHO, this only holds water if one believes that the Civil War was fought for reasons other than to protect/abolish slavery. That is a controversial never ending subject but the "not at all for/against slavery" argument is a tough one to make, and the difficulty expands exponentially if one wants to argue that the war was not fought "mostly" or "primarily" (as opposed to "only") on for/against slavery grounds. In contrast, consider this:

It is pretty conventional history that the Wehrmacht should not be confused with Naziism. It was an army that generally fought honorably (within the loose boundaries that apply to all sides in any war), served their political masters as any army should and while there may have been believers among the troops, as an institution the Wehrmacht did not fight to advance specifically Nazi ideology or goals.

There are plenty of people in Germany alive today whose fathers fought in that war as members of the Wehrmacht (not Gestapo, SS, SD, etc), and many of those died. If you expand to the grandparent level, there is probably a majority of living German citizens who had somebody in their close family fight and maybe die in the war as a member of the Wehrmacht. Many/most of those people can find good reasons to be proud of their ancestors' service and separate it from Naziism. So it's all much closer and much more real than the Civil War is to us. I haven't been to Germany in a while but I am willing to bet that there is not a single Nazi flag flying anywhere in Germany at this moment. There is not a single person honoring their ancestors' service or memory by flying the flag of their country at that time. The two situations are not identical, but they are comparable and the more one believes that for/against slavery was the largest, primary or only reason the war was fought the closer the comparison is. At the very least I see no reason why I ought to assume the good faith of a Confederate flag displayer in the first instance. It seems to me that the burden is on them to distinguish their message from a racist/pro slavery one and for sure to consider what message others perceive no matter what message they intend to send.
FWIW this would actually be illegal. I cant remember the exact law but unless theres an educational or artistic reason, I think you can still go to jail for flying a swastika in Germany.

The biggest difference here is that the law probably stems from 1945, when there were still true believers and the new German government did everything possible to kill off the Nazi cult. Thats obviously a very different situation to the south straight after the civil war.

There are parts of eastern europe where local people joined the SS and their descendants still celebrate it. Because they saw that as more about fighting for their homeland against an oppressor (Stalin) than fighting for Hitler's beliefs. That may be a closer approximation.

Speaking of Confederate flags, when I was about 20 I bought one and put it up on my bedroom wall (this was in London so I can be partially forgiven for not knowing what the fuck I was doing). I just thought it was a cool design and I really liked bands from the southern states so decided it would be a fun thing to hang up.

For about a week it had no response, until I eventually had the "What the fuck is that doing on your wall?" conversation. By the end of the conversation I agreed that yeah, it probably wasn't a great idea.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

Cole Younger wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:39 pm
10 4 tinnitus. I definitely want to visit Washington State for those reasons. What I said that day was more just born out of being tired of chuck’s mouth and can go on the pile of dumb things I’ve said here. You’re alright, tinnitus.🍺
cheers Cole. i know we've had more than our share of spats and throwdowns but a few months i said i'd try to dial down the rhetoric and not kneejerk into my presumed position but try to see other perspectives. hopefully i am making a bit of progress.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

305 Engine wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:12 pm
FWIW this would actually be illegal. I cant remember the exact law but unless theres an educational or artistic reason, I think you can still go to jail for flying a swastika in Germany.

The biggest difference here is that the law probably stems from 1945, when there were still true believers and the new German government did everything possible to kill off the Nazi cult. Thats obviously a very different situation to the south straight after the civil war.
Yes, displaying Nazi flags including the swastika is illegal in Germany. I don't see how that changes the analysis at all. The German criminal code reflects the consensus of the German people as to what's acceptable. As best as I can tell after a quick search, the relevant statute, Section 86(a) dates in its current form to the Cold War (1850s, not immediate post war) and was motivated as much by anti-Communist concerns as anti-fascist ones, though detailed information is harder to find than it should be. In any case the criminal law has been amended or modified numerous times since then and has been construed many times by the German Constitutional Court and still reflects the will of the German people.

I'm not sure what your point is about the very different situation in the South after the CW. Over three million Wehrmacht soldiers died in WWII many of them honorably, courageously and in the fulfillment of their duty to their country. And yet there is no groundswell to honor these soldiers. It aslo seems to me that the existence of this statute begs the question of why Confederate symbols weren't banned in the aftermath of the CW. While there are obviously First Amendment issues, in general I associate the perpetuation of the flag and related symbols with the entire Jim Crow legal structure which does not, he says w/ wry understatement, reflect well on the US of A.
305 Engine wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:12 pm
There are parts of eastern europe where local people joined the SS and their descendants still celebrate it. Because they saw that as more about fighting for their homeland against an oppressor (Stalin) than fighting for Hitler's beliefs. That may be a closer approximation.
Oooh boy I'm gonna guess that you have no idea of the shit you've stepped in here. It may be factually true that some people celebrate their ancestors' service in the SS; I've never heard that before. But let's be clear: in no way shape or form was the SS "an army of liberation;" there were plenty of regular army units (Wehrmacht) in eastern europe that anti-Stalinists could have joined if they wanted to fight the USSR and liberate their countries; and no later than 1941 and probably much earlier it was well known everywhere in Europe that the SS was not a regular fighting force but was devoted specifically to (a) the cult of Hitler and (b) the destruction/elimination/liquidation of undesirables, especially Jews. It is also well known that in certain parts of eastern europe the SS and the "special groups" ("Einsatzgruppen") that were tasked with massacring Jews were met by groups of enthusiastic locals who eagerly took on the nitty gritty work such as rounding up Jews, forcing them to dig their own graves then mowing them down to fall into those mass graves. See, e.g. Babi Yar for one very famous but far from the only example. I will say outright and present as a fact that anybody who said then or says now that they (or their ancestors) joined the SS in order to liberate their countries and therefore deserve a pass for what the SS was and for what it did is full of shit. I would consider such a person to be an anti-semite and literally dangerous to my health until proven otherwise (if possible). I am assuming that you don't fully appreciate this and I am not angry with you. I am trying to explain why i view this as seriously off base and threatening to say nothing of shocking and surprising. As almost an aside given what I've already said I have no idea how this approximates anything about the CW.
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305 Engine
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

beantownbubba wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:23 pm
305 Engine wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:12 pm
FWIW this would actually be illegal. I cant remember the exact law but unless theres an educational or artistic reason, I think you can still go to jail for flying a swastika in Germany.

The biggest difference here is that the law probably stems from 1945, when there were still true believers and the new German government did everything possible to kill off the Nazi cult. Thats obviously a very different situation to the south straight after the civil war.
Yes, displaying Nazi flags including the swastika is illegal in Germany. I don't see how that changes the analysis at all. The German criminal code reflects the consensus of the German people as to what's acceptable. As best as I can tell after a quick search, the relevant statute, Section 86(a) dates in its current form to the Cold War (1850s, not immediate post war) and was motivated as much by anti-Communist concerns as anti-fascist ones, though detailed information is harder to find than it should be. In any case the criminal law has been amended or modified numerous times since then and has been construed many times by the German Constitutional Court and still reflects the will of the German people.

I'm not sure what your point is about the very different situation in the South after the CW. Over three million Wehrmacht soldiers died in WWII many of them honorably, courageously and in the fulfillment of their duty to their country. And yet there is no groundswell to honor these soldiers. It aslo seems to me that the existence of this statute begs the question of why Confederate symbols weren't banned in the aftermath of the CW. While there are obviously First Amendment issues, in general I associate the perpetuation of the flag and related symbols with the entire Jim Crow legal structure which does not, he says w/ wry understatement, reflect well on the US of A.
305 Engine wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:12 pm
There are parts of eastern europe where local people joined the SS and their descendants still celebrate it. Because they saw that as more about fighting for their homeland against an oppressor (Stalin) than fighting for Hitler's beliefs. That may be a closer approximation.
Oooh boy I'm gonna guess that you have no idea of the shit you've stepped in here. It may be factually true that some people celebrate their ancestors' service in the SS; I've never heard that before. But let's be clear: in no way shape or form was the SS "an army of liberation;" there were plenty of regular army units (Wehrmacht) in eastern europe that anti-Stalinists could have joined if they wanted to fight the USSR and liberate their countries; and no later than 1941 and probably much earlier it was well known everywhere in Europe that the SS was not a regular fighting force but was devoted specifically to (a) the cult of Hitler and (b) the destruction/elimination/liquidation of undesirables, especially Jews. It is also well known that in certain parts of eastern europe the SS and the "special groups" ("Einsatzgruppen") that were tasked with massacring Jews were met by groups of enthusiastic locals who eagerly took on the nitty gritty work such as rounding up Jews, forcing them to dig their own graves then mowing them down to fall into those mass graves. See, e.g. Babi Yar for one very famous but far from the only example. I will say outright and present as a fact that anybody who said then or says now that they (or their ancestors) joined the SS in order to liberate their countries and therefore deserve a pass for what the SS was and for what it did is full of shit. I would consider such a person to be an anti-semite and literally dangerous to my health until proven otherwise (if possible). I am assuming that you don't fully appreciate this and I am not angry with you. I am trying to explain why i view this as seriously off base and threatening to say nothing of shocking and surprising. As almost an aside given what I've already said I have no idea how this approximates anything about the CW.
On the first point, it changes the analysis because a firm ban (with caveats) stops a minority using the flag as a memorial. The consensus in Germany will always be to not use it, thats a given. But a ban makes it that much harder for a minority to be revisionist, which is always a threat the further you get from historic events.

I agree with the thrust of the point.

On the second one, the similarity isn't in the reality of what those different groups did. Im fully aware that the histories are very, very different. The similarity is in the modern day perception and how it glosses over and romanticises. Perception is king when we're talking about how people view their own histories. Im well aware that the people romanticising the SS are glossing over considerably more than most people.

There were Wehrmacht in eastern europe, sure. But you''re assuming there was always free choice in what branch of the forces these guys could join. It will have come down to when the different units were recruiting. There was actually a much, much broader assortment of nations involved in the SS than there was in the Wehrmacht.

One more thing, before I really piss you of, you may want to rethink your perception of the Wehrmacht. particularly if youre drawing comparisons with your own history. The notion of a "clean" Wehrmacht has been debunked. Theres a reason their armed forces dont use that term any longer. If youre choosing analogies, there are probably better ones.

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

A fascinating but terrifying book that is at least somewhat relevant to this conversation but also something I’ve been thinking about relative to our current political climate and the willingness of so many people to think what they’re told to think about a given issue and/or group of people on the opposite side of an issue is a book called Ordinary Men.

It’s about a German police battalion. It covers the years just prior to WWII, during the war, and after. The actual members of the battalion are interviewed as old men.

What this book focuses on is who these men were, indeed ordinary men with families prior to the war, what they became, but more specifically how these men became monsters and what the transition did to them.

Their commandant told them as a group that with the war coming they would probably be asked to do some things that would be unimaginable. He told them that nobody would be forced to do anything they didn’t want to or didn’t feel like they could do.

These men describe how they went from being regular guys to people who took pregnant Jewish women, forced them to strip naked, marched them out into the snow, and shot them in the head.

What’s doubly horrifying about what the men describe is that none of them were forced to do it, they did it of their own free will. But during the transition they all became physically ill from the things they were doing. Yet they all did it. Every single one of them.

History is filled with horrifying stories like this and it is why I so despise the idea that some people deserve to be dehumanized and it is ok to think of them as the other. I see some dangerous ideas being floated in this country now relative to how adherents to competing political philosophies think of, treat, and label each other. Once we tolerate things like calling people nazis and white supremacists when that is not what they are, they are simply on the wrong side of an issue in our eyes then we are playing with a fire we can not control and need to check ourselves. After all, once someone is branded a racist, nobody has to think too much about what happens to them after that.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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Stanford Prison Experiment.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

tinnitus photography wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:37 pm
Stanford Prison Experiment.
Although, people have tried to repeat that experiment and not had the same results.

With Cole's excellent post... yeah I think we're all perfectly capable of awful things. Veterans tend not to like talking about their war experiences. We tend to assume it's because of the things they saw. But I think in many cases its also because of the things they did. Once we "other" people we become capable of terrible things and modern social media has a terrible habit of encouraging that "with or us or against us" mindset.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

305 Engine wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:46 pm
tinnitus photography wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:37 pm
Stanford Prison Experiment.
Although, people have tried to repeat that experiment and not had the same results.

With Cole's excellent post... yeah I think we're all perfectly capable of awful things. Veterans tend not to like talking about their war experiences. We tend to assume it's because of the things they saw. But I think in many cases its also because of the things they did. Once we "other" people we become capable of terrible things and modern social media has a terrible habit of encouraging that "with or us or against us" mindset.
this is true, the SFE has been debunked because one of the controls was shown to be wrong:
Critically, Zimbardo stated in a 1971 document describing the experiment that “the guards were given no specific instruction or training on how to be guards.”
the guards did know the outcome that was expected.

but, so did the SS.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

305 Engine wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:42 pm
On the first point, it changes the analysis because a firm ban (with caveats) stops a minority using the flag as a memorial. The consensus in Germany will always be to not use it, thats a given. But a ban makes it that much harder for a minority to be revisionist, which is always a threat the further you get from historic events.

I agree with the thrust of the point.

On the second one, the similarity isn't in the reality of what those different groups did. Im fully aware that the histories are very, very different. The similarity is in the modern day perception and how it glosses over and romanticises. Perception is king when we're talking about how people view their own histories. Im well aware that the people romanticising the SS are glossing over considerably more than most people.

There were Wehrmacht in eastern europe, sure. But you''re assuming there was always free choice in what branch of the forces these guys could join. It will have come down to when the different units were recruiting. There was actually a much, much broader assortment of nations involved in the SS than there was in the Wehrmacht.

One more thing, before I really piss you of, you may want to rethink your perception of the Wehrmacht. particularly if youre drawing comparisons with your own history. The notion of a "clean" Wehrmacht has been debunked. Theres a reason their armed forces dont use that term any longer. If youre choosing analogies, there are probably better ones.
"Clean" is kind of a strange term, but I'll use it for convenience. The Wehrmacht was "clean" in comparison to the SS. The difference gave those who were looking for a hook from which to hang their self-justifications could use that one. The Wehrmacht certainly became more complicit as the war went on, but it is my understanding that there was always a distinction. I do not have deep knowledge on that point so if the better argument is that there eventually was a complete merger or something close to it, so be it.

As for the rest, whatever. I'm done.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »



And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by boyyourself »

Bubba is making $20 an hour washing dishes. He has an apartment paid for by the some angels that run whatever program pays for it. He has actual money in the bank. Has all this given him opportunity? Yes. He was a bus boy and an ice cream maker but couldn't hold that down. Too much booze. That was real money. So what's the problem? Maybe if he was making $25 an hour to wash dishes, then he'd get his shit together? I'm not buying it.
Are there people that are worse off than Bubba who will never get their shit together and just need help? Probably. I just don't see raising minimum wage being helpful to folks that are looking for opportunity.
Or is there no opportunity for people? Because if there's no opportunity for people, that seems fucked up. I'm just not seeing a lack of opportunity.
I'm not seeing minimum wage raises being helpful.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

boyyourself wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:00 am
Bubba is making $20 an hour washing dishes. He has an apartment paid for by the some angels that run whatever program pays for it. He has actual money in the bank. Has all this given him opportunity? Yes. He was a bus boy and an ice cream maker but couldn't hold that down. Too much booze. That was real money. So what's the problem? Maybe if he was making $25 an hour to wash dishes, then he'd get his shit together? I'm not buying it.
Are there people that are worse off than Bubba who will never get their shit together and just need help? Probably. I just don't see raising minimum wage being helpful to folks that are looking for opportunity.
Or is there no opportunity for people? Because if there's no opportunity for people, that seems fucked up. I'm just not seeing a lack of opportunity.
I'm not seeing minimum wage raises being helpful.
I think a full time job should be enough to provide basic necessities like food and shelter. Maybe $7.25 gets you that in some parts of the country, but not most.

The greater point is that this country, for whatever reason, values those who hoard wealth more than those who toil to make ends meet.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by boyyourself »

Who in this country doesn't have the opportunity to do something with their life beyond a potentially unfulfilling dead end minimum wage job? I'm honestly just curious.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by boyyourself »

It sounds like you're saying that it would be beneficial to earn a living wage? Something more than the bare minimum which wouldn't provide for these things?

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

boyyourself wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:05 am
Who in this country doesn't have the opportunity to do something with their life beyond a potentially unfulfilling dead end minimum wage job? I'm honestly just curious.
Well, there isn't a bottomless well of "better" jobs out there. Look at a retail chain like Best Buy, for example. A large sized location will have 75-100 wage workers, two managers and a general manager. Then you have one regional manager for every 5-10 stores. Then one territory manager for ever 3-5 regions. So while a manager is a better opportunity for a salesperson, that opportunity is severely limited.

Additionally, we shouldn't expect that every worker can (or wants to) work their way up the ladder. The economy falls apart without the wage workers (who far outnumber the middle management), yet we pay them as little as possible and shame them when they don't better themselves.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by boyyourself »

I also don't really understand your greater point.
I don't see how as whole how we value those that hoard wealth. Are you just talking about greedy fuckers or corporations? Yeah that shit sucks. Right now, Amazon is up, McDonald's, wal mart, Zoloft, etc. they the ones paying shitty wages to people who choose to work there.
Or are you criticizing individuals for accruing and saving their money? Because that just seems silly.
And I also don't understand what you mean about valuing people who toil around making ends meet. I don't lack compassion for them but I also see opportunity for them. And I don't really value them I guess. But I can see potential value in anyone.
I'd get down with the notion that not everyone is exposed to opportunity and that's fucked up. But it's kinda tough to keep people in the dark these days in regards to what you can do with your life in this country besides being stuck at a high school level job just because you can't afford college or you grew up in a bad neighborhood under less than ideal circumstances.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by boyyourself »

Nobody is shaming anybody for taking low paying jobs. Maybe you don't want to work your way up a ladder. Isn't that your choice? Just like you have choices you can make to "work your way up"?

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

I'm saying the economy is rigged for those who already have amassed a lot of wealth and against those who live paycheck to paycheck. If you're sitting on a fortune, you pay lower taxes because that money isn't "earned".

I simply disagree that everyone has opportunity to do better. There simply aren't an equivalent number of "better" jobs as there are entry level jobs.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by boyyourself »

I had a window washing company for five years. My goal was to make the most money possible. It was almost all ropes and ladders. Not much flat ground in them mountains. By my goal was to make the most money possible. So I payed my guys $30 an hour to wash windows. $10 bucks an hour more than any other window washing company in town was paying. But my guys were far more efficient. They were badass A different breed all together. It worked for us all. They would bust their ass everyday making money for me. For years. A couple of them literally some if the strongest alpinists and climbers in the world. They worked for all that. And I'd look across the street and see other window washers and notice their methods and their pace and almost cringe. Who would want to just be dopey and work inefficiently and not make that much an hour and just punch the clock standing there washing windows on Main Street. I don't know. Maybe it's not all bad.
It seems better than working at McDonald's. And twice the pay. No college degree required.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by boyyourself »

You're saying that you would look a group of youth in the eye and proudly exclaim that the system is rigged against them and there ain't a damn thing they can do about it? That's what it sounds like. That seems like a fucked it thing to say to keep shouting from a stump. To me anyways.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:29 am
305 Engine wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:42 pm
On the first point, it changes the analysis because a firm ban (with caveats) stops a minority using the flag as a memorial. The consensus in Germany will always be to not use it, thats a given. But a ban makes it that much harder for a minority to be revisionist, which is always a threat the further you get from historic events.

I agree with the thrust of the point.

On the second one, the similarity isn't in the reality of what those different groups did. Im fully aware that the histories are very, very different. The similarity is in the modern day perception and how it glosses over and romanticises. Perception is king when we're talking about how people view their own histories. Im well aware that the people romanticising the SS are glossing over considerably more than most people.

There were Wehrmacht in eastern europe, sure. But you''re assuming there was always free choice in what branch of the forces these guys could join. It will have come down to when the different units were recruiting. There was actually a much, much broader assortment of nations involved in the SS than there was in the Wehrmacht.

One more thing, before I really piss you of, you may want to rethink your perception of the Wehrmacht. particularly if youre drawing comparisons with your own history. The notion of a "clean" Wehrmacht has been debunked. Theres a reason their armed forces dont use that term any longer. If youre choosing analogies, there are probably better ones.
"Clean" is kind of a strange term, but I'll use it for convenience. The Wehrmacht was "clean" in comparison to the SS. The difference gave those who were looking for a hook from which to hang their self-justifications could use that one. The Wehrmacht certainly became more complicit as the war went on, but it is my understanding that there was always a distinction. I do not have deep knowledge on that point so if the better argument is that there eventually was a complete merger or something close to it, so be it.

As for the rest, whatever. I'm done.
I mean, I dont get up in the morning and think "Hey this evening Im going to go on a Drive by truckers forum and explain the fine detail of the Nazi military in world war 2 just for the hell of it."

You seem like a nice guy and I apologise for pissing you off. Be well.

boyyourself
Posts: 957
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by boyyourself »

Or we could look at it like this, when I hired people for $30 an hour to wash windows, I was being very discriminatory in the hiring process. I discriminated against anyone who wasn't a total bad ass. That doesn't mean I am trying to punish you for not having certain skill sets that are well earned. And didn't come from school necessarily. Nor do I fault anyone for not wanting high risk jobs. But they do pay more.
Things such as Rope Access jobs are good opportunities. A week of school gets you certified and then theres opportunity.
When I was getting rope access certified in Vegas there were four or five black gentlemen there from Louisiana. They were working in the oil industry and were sent by their company to learn rope access. It's way safer than ladders and after another BP explosion safety was getting re worked.
These dudes were terrified to get two feet off the ground at first but they busted their asses and by the end of the week they were proficient at level one rope access skills and they all passed the test. Boom. Back for a raise even.
Why these dudes? I don't know. The could just be working a boring ass dead end job. But they made other choices. They grew leaps and bounds in one week. Lots of things possible outside the classroom

walthers
Posts: 425
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:55 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by walthers »

I read this forum daily. I have been reading this particular thread nonstop. I wish I had the knowledge and time to actually engage and participate in a meaningful way. Alas, I do not. Point being I hope we all can take a deep breath, stand back and see the views and insights that are being shared and discussed here. For all the back and forth and disagreements I think this thread is what makes this community great. These are the tough conversations that many people refuse to participate in or even read about and think about. I find it all refreshing and needed, especially in these times. I look forward to hearing the stories, learning the insights and views from all of you, regardless of if I agree or not. It is refreshing and a healthy dose of what people think and believe. Especially when we are in a pandemic and cannot meet for a beer at a rock show or just at the pub around the corner. For what it’s worth this thread is very therapeutic, at least for me. Thanks, everyday I am reading something that makes me think a little different about all the perspectives and I appreciate it. Thanks. Carry on.

chuckrh
Posts: 3001
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »






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rlipps
Posts: 1664
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:02 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by rlipps »

boyyourself wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:01 pm
Mennonite Cinnamon Roll has been turned into an album title already. With halloween in the mix. Masks and funny little hats. Or no costume at all.
Not that this has anything to do with the actual thread, but I live next to some Mennonites in southeastern KY, and you couldn't ask for better neighbors. I've never had a Mennonite Cinnamon Roll, but they do run a local bakery and make some of the best glazed donuts I've ever had.

Iowan
Posts: 12063
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:00 am
Location: Oneota watershed

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Iowan »

The north Iowa Mennonites run bakeries too, and their specialty is a caramel pecan cinnamon roll. I don't have a big sweet tooth, but god damn those things are great.

walthers
Posts: 425
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:55 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by walthers »

My wife is from southern Indiana and I spend some time hunting outside of Madison. There is a large Mennonite community around where we are and they build a lot of furniture, very high quality solid wood furniture.

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