The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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305 Engine
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

tinnitus photography wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:51 am
Cole Younger wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:39 pm
We now have AOC saying she wants lists of names of people who voted for Trump.
i hadn't heard any of this but is this what you're referring to? because if it is, it's not the same thing as you're saying... her point is to preserve people's stances that they made in the past and if that alignment comes back to haunt them in the future, so be it - no one forced them to take those actions. it's not nearly the same thing as holding people to task over who they voted for (and i'm not even sure one could produce a list like that legally, but regardless it's not what she was suggesting happen).

https://nypost.com/2020/11/06/aoc-facin ... ycophants/
Ocasio-Cortez received a since-deleted response from an ex-staffer of former President Barack Obama, Michael Simon, who shared a link to a site called The Trump Accountability Project.

The site says it aims to embarrass and hold accountable people complicit in the worst behaviors of Trump’s presidency, including his campaign staff, White House staff, donors and even lawyers.
Yeah I read it as her speaking specifically about Republicans who soon will probably try distancing themselves from trump. And, taking screenshots of tweets etc that are likely to be deleted.

It's a misstep by her because its the sort of thing that can be easily misrepresented. But theres nothing there about "making lists".

Zip City
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

Cole Younger wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:47 am
Zip City wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:06 am
I think you’re both missing the point.

As far back as Reagan (welfare queens) but probably as far back as Nixon, the GOP’s messaging has been “hey white blue collar/middle class voters, your life is pretty good, but bad people are coming to take that away from you!” The bad people have included (at various times) black people, Mexicans, gay people, non-Christians, Muslims, communists, hippies, etc. This has allowed a large swath of voters to believe that their own hardships are not their own fault (and certainly not the government’s fault), but the OTHER’S fault. You didn’t lose your job, someone stole it from you! Your company didn’t send your job overseas, China stole it from you.

The point of the tweet is that this election challenge simply follows the narrative; we didn’t lose, this was stolen from us. Not our fault, we are forever the victim.

I believe Cooley has written a song or twelve about this...
Aren’t you the guy that was lecturing me on empathy the other day?
One can be empathetic to the people whose lives are hard while also recognizing that they are being mislead about where to direct that anger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

Cole Younger wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:58 pm
Zip City wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:50 pm
😯How is this different from what the democrats just spent four years doing? “Not my president.” “We are the resistance.” I almost can’t believe somebody had the nerve to type what that guy said. You would think he’d be too embarrassed. Didn’t they start talking about impeachment before the swearing in? Good Lord talk about a blind spot.
the key difference is the spectre of russian interference in the 2016 election (and i highly recommend actually reading the Mueller report for yourself, instead of taking in someone else's interpretation of what it said) vs disputing without a shred of evidence that mail in ballots equaled voter fraud.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Zip City wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:06 am
I think you’re both missing the point.
I had a similar thought last night. I still think he has assessed the current situation incorrectly; what he says Republicans are doing is not what I think they are doing. But I wondered last night if what Harris is really doing is needling either or both of Trump's base and/or elected Republicans along the lines of their worldview and complaints being the same as the snowflakes they demonize. I could be reading too much into it, but I get the sense that "unfair" is becoming another example of a code word intended to convey a lot more meaning than the literal definition. I think this is close to what you're saying, zip, but with a different emphasis (and w/ the caveat that he's got the context wrong in this specific instance).
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Deleted double post.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:36 pm
Yeah, if I read instead of wrote that post I might be saying the same things you are. Absolutes are always (see what I did there?) suspect. But no, upon reflection, I'll only go so far as to say there are different levels of scum, some way more egregious than others. And I don't necessarily think that they're scum as a result of a flawed personality. While I do think politics attracts some strange and dangerous people, in this context I'm really talking about the system: There is no way, none, yes, an absolute statement, to be a politician in the USA without selling your soul to a degree. The insidious effects of big money are part of it, but it's more than that. Watch any US politician being interviewed: They are rewarded more the less they say and they will tie themselves into knots not to say anything of substance. They don't lead, they follow (or as is sometimes said, they lead from behind) and they don't have positions and principles they have opinions and trial balloons. And that's without considering good old fashioned corruption in the quid pro quo or taking personal advantage senses. There's way more than a lot of that at every level.

Trump was actually something of an exception: He is deeply, deeply corrupt on a personal level, way worse than average, but at least a fair percentage of the time he says what he thinks. The problem with him is that he doesn't think about what he says (which is not to suggest he should be more inhibited, but rather that he should think about the subjects he addresses rather than just spouting off). Bottom line, I recognize that it is perhaps a difficult position to justify but I'm sticking with it.
Upon re-reading, yikes! This is one of the more inarticulate posts I can remember writing and I apologize for that. I'm not really up for re-writing it so I'll go for the short version: I think the initial statement that all US politicians are scum is correct subject to the defect that "scum" is such a vague term that it's not really all that meaningful. If it makes a difference I do think that no matter how well intentioned a politician may be at the outset, the system almost guarantees this outcome, primarily but not only because of the money involved.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

305 Engine wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:56 am
tinnitus photography wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:51 am
Cole Younger wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:39 pm
We now have AOC saying she wants lists of names of people who voted for Trump.
i hadn't heard any of this but is this what you're referring to? because if it is, it's not the same thing as you're saying... her point is to preserve people's stances that they made in the past and if that alignment comes back to haunt them in the future, so be it - no one forced them to take those actions. it's not nearly the same thing as holding people to task over who they voted for (and i'm not even sure one could produce a list like that legally, but regardless it's not what she was suggesting happen).

https://nypost.com/2020/11/06/aoc-facin ... ycophants/
Ocasio-Cortez received a since-deleted response from an ex-staffer of former President Barack Obama, Michael Simon, who shared a link to a site called The Trump Accountability Project.

The site says it aims to embarrass and hold accountable people complicit in the worst behaviors of Trump’s presidency, including his campaign staff, White House staff, donors and even lawyers.
Yeah I read it as her speaking specifically about Republicans who soon will probably try distancing themselves from trump. And, taking screenshots of tweets etc that are likely to be deleted.

It's a misstep by her because its the sort of thing that can be easily misrepresented. But theres nothing there about "making lists".
tbh people like Lindsay Graham have clearly demonstrated that what positions you have held in the past mean jackshit in the present, so it's another quixotic venture.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

tinnitus photography wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:35 am
tbh people like Lindsay Graham have clearly demonstrated that what positions you have held in the past mean jackshit in the present, so it's another quixotic venture.
This also just in from the Things You Held High And Told Yourself Were True Lost And Changing As The Days Come Down To You dept.:

Sitting With the Weirdness
If you want to learn something from this election, don’t be too quick to explain it.

Every election is followed by a spate of what-it-all-means commentary, and usually what it means is that the commentator was right from the beginning: I saw this coming. I warned everybody. If people had just listened to me it all would have turned out better.

So I want to start this post out by saying clearly that I did not see this coming, I did not warn everybody, and I’m still not sure what we all could have done better. I think a lot of genuinely weird things happened in this election, and I don’t want to explain them away too quickly. Instead, I want to sit with the weirdness for a while and see if there’s something to learn.

Because I don’t have a this-explains-everything interpretation of this election, I’m going to wander a bit. So let me start with a quick list of the surprises I want to think about:
  • Donald Trump is not as unpopular as I thought, or as I think he ought to be.
  • The highest-turnout election in living memory did not result in a Democratic landslide.
  • Polling still had the problems that pollsters thought they had fixed since 2016.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

Cole Younger wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:24 pm
Also, working on the Georgia elections hits close to home and I’m going just stay way from that except to say you’re free to do that, but I got a ration of shit a month or so back for talking about something going on in California and asked why I had anything to say about it and told I should have more empathy.
This is a a put-my-money-where-my-mouth-is thing. This is something I believe in as a positive good, and I'll volunteer my labor for it.

It does feel odd, in a way, because for the three years I lived in Georgia, I kept my Arkansas voter registration, and paid a little more in state income tax to remain an Arkansas resident.

I'd like to mostly be a "what's it to you?" guy about how other people live, but that's hard in practice. Very few of the ways people live are all that bad, and the ones that are bad aren't that common. But it's usually the uncommon, bad ones that come to peoples' attention.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by boyyourself »

It wasn't a surprise to me that Trump got a lot of votes and almost won the thing. Most elections are about 50 50 from what I can tell. So, where exactly is the divide? Maybe it's how to examine the divides differently. Are "trump supporters" all bigoted racists who should suffer for being such a terrible human? Well that's just dumb. It doesn't mean I understand why a lot of rural folk listen to shitty music on the radio. I ain't calling it country. I Prefer the O in my country. So there's a rural vs rural divide in place.
Look at how many of us both rural and urban Connect with bands line DBT, Tyler Childers, sturgill. Chuck D Snoop D O Double G Kendrick Lamar etc
Real mother fuckers. The authenticity crosses all borders and made up English oceans.
So why the hell do a lot of country folk listen to shitty music and support Trump?
Well I could spend all day giving you the breakdown, I know that crowd inside and out. But I don't care too. I've Spent enough time looking down my nose at that crowd myself. It didn't help. Now it makes my stomach hurt to be such a judgmental bitch so I try not to be one. My intolerances now pop up elsewhere but I am confronting them with kind of a weak effort.
I prefer the DBT crowd for its diversity in lifestyle and and the characters and differences of options that have spawned out of a band rooted in duality.
The music brought me in, but the duality made me feel at home.

There's just a huge difference between a red neck and a red neck. The scale is quite large actually. Just like diversity in all cultures and within each city, country folk and conservative leAning or libertarian or faith based people, they are everywhere. And sorry folks, I'm not seeing any underlying evil.
Oh there's evil in this world. Evil people come in all shapes and sizes.
I could list 8 neighbors within half a Mile of my farm. I don't give a shit who any of them voted for. Nobody had signs up. It's not really a MAGA crowd. Maybe a few. Gaurantee it ain't a Biden crowd.

No way to tie these ramblings together accept your say it seems the two party system needs to die. Maybe it is. Shit is going to keep shaking for awhile, it has to. But Calling someone evil or saying that the MAGA is just trying to Crystallize it's voters sounds stupid. And it's not helpful Not that I know what is. I just know what hurts my stomach and hurts my ears. And I've learned to trust my instincts. Which I should probably re examine goddamnit

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

Zip City wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:57 am
Cole Younger wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:47 am
Zip City wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:06 am
I think you’re both missing the point.

As far back as Reagan (welfare queens) but probably as far back as Nixon, the GOP’s messaging has been “hey white blue collar/middle class voters, your life is pretty good, but bad people are coming to take that away from you!” The bad people have included (at various times) black people, Mexicans, gay people, non-Christians, Muslims, communists, hippies, etc. This has allowed a large swath of voters to believe that their own hardships are not their own fault (and certainly not the government’s fault), but the OTHER’S fault. You didn’t lose your job, someone stole it from you! Your company didn’t send your job overseas, China stole it from you.

The point of the tweet is that this election challenge simply follows the narrative; we didn’t lose, this was stolen from us. Not our fault, we are forever the victim.

I believe Cooley has written a song or twelve about this...
Aren’t you the guy that was lecturing me on empathy the other day?
One can be empathetic to the people whose lives are hard while also recognizing that they are being mislead about where to direct that anger
🤣You’re never just wrong are you Zip?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:08 pm
Because I don’t have a this-explains-everything interpretation of this election, I’m going to wander a bit. So let me start with a quick list of the surprises I want to think about:
  • Donald Trump is not as unpopular as I thought, or as I think he ought to be.
  • The highest-turnout election in living memory did not result in a Democratic landslide.
  • Polling still had the problems that pollsters thought they had fixed since 2016.
[/quote]

agreed with all of these.

but regarding the first point, i think i'm still gonna come out ahead on my 5MM+ bet with Wolf. i already won the side bet.

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

boyyourself wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:47 pm
It wasn't a surprise to me that Trump got a lot of votes and almost won the thing. Most elections are about 50 50 from what I can tell. So, where exactly is the divide? Maybe it's how to examine the divides differently. Are "trump supporters" all bigoted racists who should suffer for being such a terrible human? Well that's just dumb. It doesn't mean I understand why a lot of rural folk listen to shitty music on the radio. I ain't calling it country. I Prefer the O in my country. So there's a rural vs rural divide in place.
Look at how many of us both rural and urban Connect with bands line DBT, Tyler Childers, sturgill. Chuck D Snoop D O Double G Kendrick Lamar etc
Real mother fuckers. The authenticity crosses all borders and made up English oceans.
So why the hell do a lot of country folk listen to shitty music and support Trump?
Well I could spend all day giving you the breakdown, I know that crowd inside and out. But I don't care too. I've Spent enough time looking down my nose at that crowd myself. It didn't help. Now it makes my stomach hurt to be such a judgmental bitch so I try not to be one. My intolerances now pop up elsewhere but I am confronting them with kind of a weak effort.
I prefer the DBT crowd for its diversity in lifestyle and and the characters and differences of options that have spawned out of a band rooted in duality.
The music brought me in, but the duality made me feel at home.

There's just a huge difference between a red neck and a red neck. The scale is quite large actually. Just like diversity in all cultures and within each city, country folk and conservative leAning or libertarian or faith based people, they are everywhere. And sorry folks, I'm not seeing any underlying evil.
Oh there's evil in this world. Evil people come in all shapes and sizes.
I could list 8 neighbors within half a Mile of my farm. I don't give a shit who any of them voted for. Nobody had signs up. It's not really a MAGA crowd. Maybe a few. Gaurantee it ain't a Biden crowd.

No way to tie these ramblings together accept your say it seems the two party system needs to die. Maybe it is. Shit is going to keep shaking for awhile, it has to. But Calling someone evil or saying that the MAGA is just trying to Crystallize it's voters sounds stupid. And it's not helpful Not that I know what is. I just know what hurts my stomach and hurts my ears. And I've learned to trust my instincts. Which I should probably re examine goddamnit
I love that last paragraph especially. I’m all for the two party system dying. I don’t know that it is but I believe it will eventually. The freak out over MAGA has always made
me chuckle. Amazing to me how puritanical the loudest on the left have become. If more and more people will just tell them to pound sand when they try and make an issue out of nothing they will begrudgingly give up on it. A buddy of mine who has attended a bunch of Homecomings with me said last night that he’s sick of this idea that if you aren’t a liberal, like guns, and aren’t ashamed of being white that means you’re E-vil. I told him that I don’t care. Anybody stupid enough to think like that is not somebody I’m going waste any time on.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

boyyourself wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:47 pm
It wasn't a surprise to me that Trump got a lot of votes and almost won the thing. Most elections are about 50 50 from what I can tell. So, where exactly is the divide? Maybe it's how to examine the divides differently. Are "trump supporters" all bigoted racists who should suffer for being such a terrible human? Well that's just dumb. It doesn't mean I understand why a lot of rural folk listen to shitty music on the radio. I ain't calling it country. I Prefer the O in my country. So there's a rural vs rural divide in place.
Look at how many of us both rural and urban Connect with bands line DBT, Tyler Childers, sturgill. Chuck D Snoop D O Double G Kendrick Lamar etc
Real mother fuckers. The authenticity crosses all borders and made up English oceans.
So why the hell do a lot of country folk listen to shitty music and support Trump?
Well I could spend all day giving you the breakdown, I know that crowd inside and out. But I don't care too. I've Spent enough time looking down my nose at that crowd myself. It didn't help. Now it makes my stomach hurt to be such a judgmental bitch so I try not to be one. My intolerances now pop up elsewhere but I am confronting them with kind of a weak effort.
I prefer the DBT crowd for its diversity in lifestyle and and the characters and differences of options that have spawned out of a band rooted in duality.
The music brought me in, but the duality made me feel at home.

There's just a huge difference between a red neck and a red neck. The scale is quite large actually. Just like diversity in all cultures and within each city, country folk and conservative leAning or libertarian or faith based people, they are everywhere. And sorry folks, I'm not seeing any underlying evil.
Oh there's evil in this world. Evil people come in all shapes and sizes.
I could list 8 neighbors within half a Mile of my farm. I don't give a shit who any of them voted for. Nobody had signs up. It's not really a MAGA crowd. Maybe a few. Gaurantee it ain't a Biden crowd.

No way to tie these ramblings together accept your say it seems the two party system needs to die. Maybe it is. Shit is going to keep shaking for awhile, it has to. But Calling someone evil or saying that the MAGA is just trying to Crystallize it's voters sounds stupid. And it's not helpful Not that I know what is. I just know what hurts my stomach and hurts my ears. And I've learned to trust my instincts. Which I should probably re examine goddamnit
Much truth and maybe even some wisdom here.

But at some point one has to take into account that there is an identifiable portion of Trump's base that does in fact consist of bad people. It is a mistake and counterproductive to tar all Trump voters w/ the same brush. At the same time, I'm not willing to give a pass to, or to ignore, that portion of the Trump base which tries to kidnap governors, shouts "Jews will not replace us" and eagerly accepts and boasts about the label "white supremacist." Trump embraces these people so while they may be a minority of the Trump base they are absolutely a part of it and a very problematic part of it.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

Cole Younger wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:15 pm
boyyourself wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:47 pm
It wasn't a surprise to me that Trump got a lot of votes and almost won the thing. Most elections are about 50 50 from what I can tell. So, where exactly is the divide? Maybe it's how to examine the divides differently. Are "trump supporters" all bigoted racists who should suffer for being such a terrible human? Well that's just dumb. It doesn't mean I understand why a lot of rural folk listen to shitty music on the radio. I ain't calling it country. I Prefer the O in my country. So there's a rural vs rural divide in place.
Look at how many of us both rural and urban Connect with bands line DBT, Tyler Childers, sturgill. Chuck D Snoop D O Double G Kendrick Lamar etc
Real mother fuckers. The authenticity crosses all borders and made up English oceans.
So why the hell do a lot of country folk listen to shitty music and support Trump?
Well I could spend all day giving you the breakdown, I know that crowd inside and out. But I don't care too. I've Spent enough time looking down my nose at that crowd myself. It didn't help. Now it makes my stomach hurt to be such a judgmental bitch so I try not to be one. My intolerances now pop up elsewhere but I am confronting them with kind of a weak effort.
I prefer the DBT crowd for its diversity in lifestyle and and the characters and differences of options that have spawned out of a band rooted in duality.
The music brought me in, but the duality made me feel at home.

There's just a huge difference between a red neck and a red neck. The scale is quite large actually. Just like diversity in all cultures and within each city, country folk and conservative leAning or libertarian or faith based people, they are everywhere. And sorry folks, I'm not seeing any underlying evil.
Oh there's evil in this world. Evil people come in all shapes and sizes.
I could list 8 neighbors within half a Mile of my farm. I don't give a shit who any of them voted for. Nobody had signs up. It's not really a MAGA crowd. Maybe a few. Gaurantee it ain't a Biden crowd.

No way to tie these ramblings together accept your say it seems the two party system needs to die. Maybe it is. Shit is going to keep shaking for awhile, it has to. But Calling someone evil or saying that the MAGA is just trying to Crystallize it's voters sounds stupid. And it's not helpful Not that I know what is. I just know what hurts my stomach and hurts my ears. And I've learned to trust my instincts. Which I should probably re examine goddamnit
I love that last paragraph especially. I’m all for the two party system dying. I don’t know that it is but I believe it will eventually. The freak out over MAGA has always made
me chuckle. Amazing to me how puritanical the loudest on the left have become. If more and more people will just tell them to pound sand when they try and make an issue out of nothing they will begrudgingly give up on it. A buddy of mine who has attended a bunch of Homecomings with me said last night that he’s sick of this idea that if you aren’t a liberal, like guns, and aren’t ashamed of being white that means you’re E-vil. I told him that I don’t care. Anybody stupid enough to think like that is not somebody I’m going waste any time on.
two things - a viable third party cannot start at the presidency, and it's insane how people think that's the proper strategy for success.

another thing, Cole - i think you'd like Seattle. good hiking and fishing just out in the Cascades. check it out.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:08 pm
If you want to learn something from this election, don’t be too quick to explain it.
I've been talking about this a lot elsewhere. I cannot stand this torrent of words, words and more words written and spoken in haste without thought, reflection, research or any true attempt to actually understand things. It is a part of our instant gratification, social media obsessed culture so it's not going away anytime soon, but there's no other word for it than stupid. Anyone who thinks they understand what happened in this election and what it means at any level deeper than the fact that Biden won is completely suspect in my view.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by boyyourself »

Folks I'm literally in that process of vaulting from one extreme to another.
I'm moving from Trump Country to Lockdown Joe Town as we speak. Now as discussed, of course the roots of the country run way deeper and are more diverse than just a planting a flagpole and flying your colors.
Just as Lockdown Joe Town is more than just delusional leftists, if I may describe the enemy of the confederacy.

BUT, there is literally a confederate flag hanging in someone's front yard no more than two miles from my house. This is western Colorado.
What should I do? Throw rocks at there house as I drive by? Nah, I don't like being a dumbass. Are they dumbasses for flying that flag? I don't know. Who am I. Maybe they have a great granddaddy who fought in the civil war. Maybe it's to honor him and nothing else. Fuck If I know. I don't know them. Maybe I should go knock on there door and offer them fresh pork from a neighbor. Maybe I will I got fifty bucks that says they are a super nice old couple.
I'll keep you posted.
I got a thousand bucks you ain't gonna see a confederate flag in Telluride. Is that awesome? Sure. But I see a lot of divisive flags being flown right there in lockdown joe town. And they are painted with pretty colors and sprayed with a veneer that's meant to smell like compassion.
These aren't bad people. That's for sure.
But they sure as hell ain't any smarter or better on any level than any of my rural neighbors. In fact I'd say the opposite if I had to bet real money.
I've had a joke to myself for five years that the best farmers I know live in Telluride. It's funny because they don't do shit. They have clean hands and a bunch of big opinions about the earth and how things should be but they don't know fuck all about soil biology or even where a banana comes from or how it got to their house. Stay in your lane ski town. --thanks for Allowing me to be candid and generalize for a second it helps..--- I don't have room to be pissed but I can also point this shit out.

And I got some great stories about The mennonites that are leasing my farm.
And how cool the mennonites are and how they met Bubba when he was here the other day and how classic the interaction was.

The Living Bubba meets the mennonites. It was beautiful. I'll try to give details.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

10 4 tinnitus. I definitely want to visit Washington State for those reasons. What I said that day was more just born out of being tired of chuck’s mouth and can go on the pile of dumb things I’ve said here. You’re alright, tinnitus.🍺
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

Zip City
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

Cole Younger wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:02 pm
Zip City wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:57 am
Cole Younger wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:47 am


Aren’t you the guy that was lecturing me on empathy the other day?
One can be empathetic to the people whose lives are hard while also recognizing that they are being mislead about where to direct that anger
🤣You’re never just wrong are you Zip?
I guess I don't see how it's lacking empathy to point out how politicians prey on fear of the other
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

boyyourself
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by boyyourself »

two things - a viable third party cannot start at the presidency, and it's insane how people think that's the proper strategy for success.

Tinnitus, I agree with this. But it's also NOT starting with the presidency. It's been a groundswell for awhile. Lots of things have been swelling. The Bernie thing was pretty goddamn rootsy. That dude been saying the same stuff for decades. The MAGA thing had been growing for awhile and it happened to pop up as an orange clown as the Pesident. The Biden crowd been swelling as a result of MAGA. Storms don't take as long to brew these days. Did you see how quickly Tyler Childers blew up? He didn't have to road dog for 20 years like the Truckers to start getting mailbox money. It doesn't mean there weren't roots in place. He built them himself. And, Hearing a Ricky Scaggs hit on the radio the other day from the 80s reminded me that those Kentucky roots that spawned Simpson and Childers run very deep. And like DBT, help explain the duality of the fucking everything thing. And how the roots of the middle ground continue to grow. At least in my perspective. And it's thanks to guys like Cooley and McMurtry and some of the farmers I respect, DBT friends and family that I respect that have the ability to exude intelligence by being able to examine all sides and not go crazy. The caveat seems to be the not to crazy part, and where I know I've fallen short in my life. Or maybe I just had to go wild for fifty years before I learned how to not go crazy. It's a daily challenge and whatnot. Nothing's perfect nobody's perfect
So I'd rather talk solutions. I'm damn near outta margin for problems. But life goes on and I ain't about to start disaster proofing or choosing sides.
I'd rather talk solutions and find common ground and go from there. It's something new I'm trying.

beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

boyyourself wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:35 pm
BUT, there is literally a confederate flag hanging in someone's front yard no more than two miles from my house. This is western Colorado.
What should I do? Throw rocks at there house as I drive by? Nah, I don't like being a dumbass. Are they dumbasses for flying that flag? I don't know. Who am I. Maybe they have a great granddaddy who fought in the civil war. Maybe it's to honor him and nothing else. Fuck If I know. I don't know them.
IMHO, this only holds water if one believes that the Civil War was fought for reasons other than to protect/abolish slavery. That is a controversial never ending subject but the "not at all for/against slavery" argument is a tough one to make, and the difficulty expands exponentially if one wants to argue that the war was not fought "mostly" or "primarily" (as opposed to "only") on for/against slavery grounds. In contrast, consider this:

It is pretty conventional history that the Wehrmacht should not be confused with Naziism. It was an army that generally fought honorably (within the loose boundaries that apply to all sides in any war), served their political masters as any army should and while there may have been believers among the troops, as an institution the Wehrmacht did not fight to advance specifically Nazi ideology or goals.

There are plenty of people in Germany alive today whose fathers fought in that war as members of the Wehrmacht (not Gestapo, SS, SD, etc), and many of those died. If you expand to the grandparent level, there is probably a majority of living German citizens who had somebody in their close family fight and maybe die in the war as a member of the Wehrmacht. Many/most of those people can find good reasons to be proud of their ancestors' service and separate it from Naziism. So it's all much closer and much more real than the Civil War is to us. I haven't been to Germany in a while but I am willing to bet that there is not a single Nazi flag flying anywhere in Germany at this moment. There is not a single person honoring their ancestors' service or memory by flying the flag of their country at that time. The two situations are not identical, but they are comparable and the more one believes that for/against slavery was the largest, primary or only reason the war was fought the closer the comparison is. At the very least I see no reason why I ought to assume the good faith of a Confederate flag displayer in the first instance. It seems to me that the burden is on them to distinguish their message from a racist/pro slavery one and for sure to consider what message others perceive no matter what message they intend to send.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

boyyourself
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by boyyourself »

I hear ya man. And totally agree I do remember my uncle telling me one time that he had a great aunt Who was the oldest surviving Widow of the civil war Or something like that. That's the only reason I used that sort of potential situation. Maybe I'll just ask them why they are flying it. I'll keep ya posted. If not, start worrying about me😉

beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

boyyourself wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:13 pm
If not, start worrying about me
LOL. Not that you need to prove anything to me, but your bona fides are good w/ me.

Not really on point but kind of, that "oldest surviving widow" thing is to me different. It's history, not politics. That person lived through shit we can't imagine, stuff that comes down to us only through legend. That's an amazing thing to be treasured and an opportunity to hear stories and maybe learn a few things as well.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

boyyourself wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:04 pm
It's a daily challenge and whatnot. Nothing's perfect nobody's perfect
So I'd rather talk solutions. I'm damn near outta margin for problems. But life goes on and I ain't about to start disaster proofing or choosing sides.
I'd rather talk solutions and find common ground and go from there. It's something new I'm trying.
This is really important and worth all of our serious attention.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

boyyourself
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by boyyourself »

Oldest surviving widow of a civil war vet. I wanna say my uncle met her when he was a kid. I'll try to find out. Uncle Rex is still alive. He must be 72. He can spin a yarn. Maybe I'll be in Texas for thangiving and the wine will be flowing and The uncles will be talking.

beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

boyyourself wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:20 pm
Oldest surviving widow of a civil war vet. I wanna say my uncle met her when he was a kid. I'll try to find out. Uncle Rex is still alive. He must be 72. He can spin a yarn. Maybe I'll be in Texas for thangiving and the wine will be flowing and The uncles will be talking.
Don't forget at least a digital recorder, preferably w/ video!!
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Written by a woman named Janet Moore, who I don't know and posted on FB by a friend of mine. Possibly of interest here. I don't know if it matters but the friend who posted it is a Republican of the more or less never trump variety. His conservative credentials go way back as evidenced by the fact that he clerked for Warren Burger when Burger was Chief Justice of the SCOTUS.

“I think most of us voted for Biden because we want to see the country united. We stood in line for hours to vote. We did voter outreach. We took action to bring the country together.
Trump was very divisive and very hurtful. Even now, he is accusing our side of cheating and stealing and committing fraud and refuses to accept the results of the election. For four years, he has told Democrats, liberals, progressives, and and minorities, that they're not real Americans, that they don't matter, or worse, that they are bad people trying to hurt the country. At times, he has acted on those words by denying help to Blue States and punishing those he perceives as his enemies. As an American, it's very hurtful and frightening to have the leader of your country identify you as the enemy.
It's also very hard to understand how our neighbors, friends, and family members could support someone who treated us that way. The fact that 70 million of our fellow Americans are okay with how he viewed and treated us is also hurtful and frightening.
I think what you're seeing now is a release of pent up anger and fear. It's pure joy at getting rid of the instigator of a lot of hate.
I think most Biden supporters are eager for the healing to begin, for the country to come together, but it might take a minute or two. And it isn't a one way street. Trump supporters who have accepted the results of the election and are looking for ways to unite and work together for the good of all have taken a big step, but there's more work to do. None of us can allow our candidates and elected officials to demonize the opposition. None of us can be so concerned about gaining power that we forget about compromise. If we are truly to unify, both sides, BOTH sides, have to hold their leaders accountable and condemn any behavior that seeks to win the upper hand by casting the other side as less American. And people on both sides, BOTH sides, have to really start to feel that those who have different views have a right to be heard and a right to have some issues decided in their favor, and that some rights are guaranteed regardless of whether everybody approves.
Having said all that, Trump and the members of his Party and administration who supported or echoed his views, the militias, the white nationalists, the racists, those who don't support American values or don't seem to want to be part of the democratic republic will likely continue to be divisive. Unless they're willing to change, they will not be part of the solution and should be condemned. It is impossible to unite with people whose primary goal is to divide and destroy.
I personally, would like to see the United States of America ring true.”
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

boyyourself
Posts: 957
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by boyyourself »

Great idea. I drove over to the neighbors. The confederate flag wasn't flying anymore. The place looked empty so I decided not to stop. It turned out a boring story except I needed a break from moving.
So I'll try to tell a better story about me moving to procrastinate from moving.

It involves the Real Life Living Bubba and me and a couple of different Mennonite families.

I knew renting the farm to good folk would be easy. It's 3 acres with lots of shade trees, tons of sun, irrigation, a shop, and a house. Desirable to say the least. It only became for sale because of a bad divorce and they had to. I was there right time right place and grabbed it a year and half ago.
I started telling neighbors I was going to rent it out.
The new Mennonite family across the road came knocking on my door about it days after I started telling people. They are saving up to buy and my place is way better than where they are now. They can't move in til June so they introduced me to an older Mennonite couple who wanted to move in immediately. Perfect.
They all wanted to come take good look at the place. So we decided on The other day at 2pm. Bubba was with me and he didn't necessarily have his shit together. But I knew an encounter between Bubba and the Mennonites would be classic, and it was.
They all showed up at once had we introduced ourselves. Bubba was sitting in the yard strumming his Eukele. That's all he does really. So now Bubba and the mennonites have met and it's all good. We all go inside the house so they can check it out. Bubba stayed in the yard. I announced that they are welcome you look Inside any drawers they wanted but ya might find something innapropriate. They all laughed out loud. Even the little old lady and the mother of the Four or five kids. I can't remember.
Then we all walked out of the house together to check the rest of the property.

There was Bubba, still sitting in the yard, euk in hand. And he says out loud..."so what were you kids for Halloween?"......and I was curious because I don't know shit about what mennonites do for Halloween. And the father answered by saying that they went to church down the road and cider and ice cream and that they didn't really do the dress up thing. It was cool and casual and we went on about checking out the rest of the property. But it was an instant classic in my mind. Me and Bubba have laughed our asses off about it several times since. He knew it was weird as it come out of his mouth. But I'm glad he said it.

The younger family left and the old couple looked around longer, they're moving in next week. I asked them if they ate pork and chicken. Hell I didn't know. They said they did. So I gave them some that I raised. They were psyched. Then she went to her car and gave me an entire plate
of fresh homemade cinnamon rolls. Me and Bubba ate half if them in 5 minutes. We took the other half to his dentist people who decided they were going to give new teeth for free because they are angels.
And I'm pretty sure The living Bubba is working on a song called Mennonite Cinnamon Roll, if it's not already in the can. It may not be as good as You made me Cum Wrong, but how can you ever match a creative outburst like that?
More dualities I guess.

Cole Younger
Posts: 3989
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

Zip City wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:49 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:02 pm
Zip City wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:57 am


One can be empathetic to the people whose lives are hard while also recognizing that they are being mislead about where to direct that anger
🤣You’re never just wrong are you Zip?
I guess I don't see how it's lacking empathy to point out how politicians prey on fear of the other
It’s not. You just sounded way judgier the first time.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

Zip City
Posts: 17313
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:59 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

Cole Younger wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:14 pm
Zip City wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:49 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:02 pm

🤣You’re never just wrong are you Zip?
I guess I don't see how it's lacking empathy to point out how politicians prey on fear of the other
It’s not. You just sounded way judgier the first time.
It's probably my black robe and powdered wig that threw you off
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

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