The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

phungi wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:32 am
Cole, unlurking again, to provide a slightly different, albeit personal perspective.

Growing up in NE Philly, there were basically two religions in my world, those who were jewish and those who were not... I didn't really understand the difference between Catholics and Protestants (not sure I do now, other than Jameson vs Bushmills, but I digress). My neighborhood was "mixed" as was my group of friends as was my school. My dad worked as a civilian software engineer for the gov't at the Philly Navy Yard, and voted Republican his entire life. I was never on an airplane, until I was 21 (paid for it myself) but got new sneakers and clothes annually (i.e., new school year) or when I needed them (sadly, sometimes simply trading in for new Tough-Skin jeans, but I digress). While I was raised in a "semi-religious" household, I denounced my religion shortly after my bar mitzvah, and have remained a steadfast apathetic evangelical atheist (i.e., too lazy to spread the word of no god, but I digress) since age 13. However, when I got to high school, there were plenty of kids from "the other side of the boulevard" who looked at me as the devil, as a rich jew, and not only wanted to kick my ass, but did so a few times in "several-on-one" ugly scenes.

So, I graduate (get) high school, go to Penn State in lovely Centre County PA, and meet lots of people, including some from the more rural areas of PA who not only had never met anyone jewish, but actually thought I had horns. I grew accustomed to choosing which hill to die on when someone said "fucking jew" in the tv-lounge (ah, the days of early cable tv, but I digress)... there were "friendly fraternities" and for the most part, this was a non-issue, and I by no means grew up as an oppressed minority in this country. As I mentioned, I didn't know hunger, I went to college, and then to grad school (on my dime) and had/have a pretty good life. While I remain uninterested in any form of organized religion (other than live music shows, but I digress), I suppose I identify with some aspects of the culture: family meals during holidays, attending secular ceremonies (e.g., weddings and funerals and bar mitzvahs, but I digress). Along the way, I read the bible, torah, and koran, and educated myself. I was able to visit Europe and even some concentration camps, and holocaust museums (abroad and in Washington DC), which sets up the reason I am posting.

I was no fan of Trump, but hoped for the best. However, when the shit went down in Charleston VA, and neo-Nazis were marching the streets with torches, saying "jews will not replace us",I went right back to my youth and experienced a level of hurt and oppression that few can understand without a lack of personal experience. Jewish people only represent about 2% of the population in the US, so when Trump did not repudiate this group, and instead validated their existence, it hurt perhaps only a minority. Imagine, if you will, a crowd chanting "anti-Marines rhetoric" (or Army, I don't recall your branch of service, but I digress), and know that there are thousands who would want you dead on the spot, simply for belonging to a group which they neither understood nor ever interacted with... I imagine it would personally hurt you, as well as the 2-3% of US citizens who, like you, selflessly served. Imagine a crowd chanting "blacks should still be slaves" and how that would hurt anyone who grew up oppressed as a black person in the US. (Note, I am not insinuating you are racist, incapable of empathy, or validate any of Trump's views, just waxing/digressing to get to my point). So, in response to "You got what you wanted. Why is that not enough? What would be enough?" nothing short of the harshest repudiation of Trump, his rhetoric, his racism, his xenophobia, and all the lies he used to create "anti-everything that doesn't support me, my people, or my bank account" propaganda would be a good start. I want anything that will not allow this guy to slink into the dark recesses of our country only to re-build and re-emerge with a stronger more disgusting platform of hate and vilification and lies. Metaphorically, I want him cut off at the knees, with compound fractures of both tibia, along with bilateral severed achilles tendons, perhaps even as an amputee in a wheelchair. I want his brand name disgraced, his properties ceremonially razed/demolished, and his family bankrupt, living in the same tenement houses they denied poor minorities to inhabit, working at minimum-wage jobs they refuse to respect with even a shred of decency by raising the wage. I want them to have to live on the social security and government-based health care they want to deny others, and I want every person who supported him (not Republicans, but what we refer to as "flag-waving evangelical Trumpsters") to see the just outcome of hate, evil, selfishness and lies and hopefully learn something from this.

Sorry if this seems personally against you, it is not, but it is an answer to "what more do Democrats want". At least, this is what this evangelical atheist jew heathen wants, as well as to hang with you and all the good people at the next rock show and share a beer.
Man I sincerely appreciate your taking the time to explain that. Your own personal connection and background was particularly helpful and interesting. I understand some of that.
I would less than honest if I didn’t admit that I don’t understand some of the emboldened part. That’s alright. I don’t have to understand it. But I do think we are headed for trouble if we want supporters of one president, politician or other to pay some sort of price for it. We now have AOC saying she wants lists of names of people who voted for Trump. I dont know what she thinks she’s going to do once she has such a list but that is a fire we do not need to play with because it will not be pretty. This is what I have been concerned about with the normalization of rioting and falsely describing the riots as “peaceful protests”. The “elections have consequences” mentality came back to bite the democrats when they were no longer in power. And “I want names” will too and possibly sooner than a republican being in the White House. This is what happens when people who don’t know anything about fighting and warfare decide “This is war!!!!!” It escalates. The other side isnt going to just lay down and take it. They are going to fight back. I dont mean you are calling for anything like that. Just one small part of your post got me thinking in that direction as I have already been thinking about the danger of this sort of thing.

I appreciate you, brother. I mean that. And if what I said made it seem in any way like maybe I sympathize with the type of person who says or thinks things like “Damn Jews” or “black people should still be slaves” or anything like that, let me put that to bed right now. No way, no how. I will never be in agreement with most here about most things political. And I can be a smart ass and don’t always word things the best way that I could. And I am definitely not in agreement on some of this stuff. But I’m not a person who hates people not like me. Thanks again, man and hopefully we cross paths again before long. All I can say for myself for when it seems like I’m being a jackass, remember, I’m pretty much all alone here. Well now that boyyourself is here, not anymore, but still. It’s not lost on me that an awful lot of people would love for me to just go away and not come back. For some it’s even personal. That’s fine, I don’t care. I only bring it up to help explain some of my less than pleasant moments here. I’ve got no problem standing right on my own. But that means I won’t always seem like a nice guy as a result.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

Zip City
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

Is the "normalization of rioting" a thing that's happening anywhere but the fringes of the internet? I don't know anyone who condones it, and I haven't heard a single talking head condone it.
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

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phungi
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by phungi »

Cole Younger wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:39 pm
Man I sincerely appreciate your taking the time to explain that. Your own personal connection and background was particularly helpful and interesting. I understand some of that.
I would less than honest if I didn’t admit that I don’t understand some of the emboldened part. That’s alright. I don’t have to understand it. But I do think we are headed for trouble if we want supporters of one president, politician or other to pay some sort of price for it. We now have AOC saying she wants lists of names of people who voted for Trump. I dont know what she thinks she’s going to do once she has such a list but that is a fire we do not need to play with because it will not be pretty. This is what I have been concerned about with the normalization of rioting and falsely describing the riots as “peaceful protests”. The “elections have consequences” mentality came back to bite the democrats when they were no longer in power. And “I want names” will too and possibly sooner than a republican being in the White House. This is what happens when people who don’t know anything about fighting and warfare decide “This is war!!!!!” It escalates. The other side isnt going to just lay down and take it. They are going to fight back. I dont mean you are calling for anything like that. Just one small part of your post got me thinking in that direction as I have already been thinking about the danger of this sort of thing.

I appreciate you, brother. I mean that. And if what I said made it seem in any way like maybe I sympathize with the type of person who says or thinks things like “Damn Jews” or “black people should still be slaves” or anything like that, let me put that to bed right now. No way, no how. I will never be in agreement with most here about most things political. And I can be a smart ass and don’t always word things the best way that I could. And I am definitely not in agreement on some of this stuff. But I’m not a person who hates people not like me. Thanks again, man and hopefully we cross paths again before long. All I can say for myself for when it seems like I’m being a jackass, remember, I’m pretty much all alone here. Well now that boyyourself is here, not anymore, but still. It’s not lost on me that an awful lot of people would love for me to just go away and not come back. For some it’s even personal. That’s fine, I don’t care. I only bring it up to help explain some of my less than pleasant moments here. I’ve got no problem standing right on my own. But that means I won’t always seem like a nice guy as a result.
Cole, just getting back online. I am quite sure we are "both good with one another"... nothing I wrote was related to you or any specific individual. To clarify, I am not suggesting that anyone who is Republican OR anyone who is a "Trumpster" is deserving of any type of "comeuppance".

However, as I boldly (and emboldenedly) stated, rather dramatically and quite graphically: Trump, his immediate family (who were complicit with their nepotismic appointment to positions for which they are neither unqualified nor incompetent), and his sycophantic enablers (read: individuals who are elected to represent and protect their constituents, and serve as a balance on the Executive Branch but instead blindly serve/support their leader as toadies despite the majority/will of said constituents), deserve the same fate, and certainly nothing in the form of an olive branch.
We got messed up minds for these messed up times...

Cole Younger
Posts: 3989
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

Zip City wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:44 pm
Is the "normalization of rioting" a thing that's happening anywhere but the fringes of the internet? I don't know anyone who condones it, and I haven't heard a single talking head condone it.
Around four years ago Maxine Waters encouraged angry democrats who were already chanting “Not My President” and calling themselves “the resistance” (the same people who now say they want unity since they got their way) to “go out, find Trump supporters, surround them, and let them know they aren’t welcome here.”

AOC as recently as September I believe (but am not positive) said, “Stay in the streets!” and VP elect Harris told the rioters “It’s working.” And I have no doubt that since they paid little to no price for it they indeed will think it did work and will do it the next time they don’t like something. I figure it’s a matter of time before the other side starts doing it now. It’s already being talked about. And I bet they won’t be called “peaceful protestors”. I’m old enough to remember when the Tea Party, a bunch of people holding signs, were characterized as a dangerous right wing mob of nazis who were a “threat to democracy”.
Last edited by Cole Younger on Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

Cole Younger
Posts: 3989
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

phungi wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:55 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:39 pm
Man I sincerely appreciate your taking the time to explain that. Your own personal connection and background was particularly helpful and interesting. I understand some of that.
I would less than honest if I didn’t admit that I don’t understand some of the emboldened part. That’s alright. I don’t have to understand it. But I do think we are headed for trouble if we want supporters of one president, politician or other to pay some sort of price for it. We now have AOC saying she wants lists of names of people who voted for Trump. I dont know what she thinks she’s going to do once she has such a list but that is a fire we do not need to play with because it will not be pretty. This is what I have been concerned about with the normalization of rioting and falsely describing the riots as “peaceful protests”. The “elections have consequences” mentality came back to bite the democrats when they were no longer in power. And “I want names” will too and possibly sooner than a republican being in the White House. This is what happens when people who don’t know anything about fighting and warfare decide “This is war!!!!!” It escalates. The other side isnt going to just lay down and take it. They are going to fight back. I dont mean you are calling for anything like that. Just one small part of your post got me thinking in that direction as I have already been thinking about the danger of this sort of thing.

I appreciate you, brother. I mean that. And if what I said made it seem in any way like maybe I sympathize with the type of person who says or thinks things like “Damn Jews” or “black people should still be slaves” or anything like that, let me put that to bed right now. No way, no how. I will never be in agreement with most here about most things political. And I can be a smart ass and don’t always word things the best way that I could. And I am definitely not in agreement on some of this stuff. But I’m not a person who hates people not like me. Thanks again, man and hopefully we cross paths again before long. All I can say for myself for when it seems like I’m being a jackass, remember, I’m pretty much all alone here. Well now that boyyourself is here, not anymore, but still. It’s not lost on me that an awful lot of people would love for me to just go away and not come back. For some it’s even personal. That’s fine, I don’t care. I only bring it up to help explain some of my less than pleasant moments here. I’ve got no problem standing right on my own. But that means I won’t always seem like a nice guy as a result.
Cole, just getting back online. I am quite sure we are "both good with one another"... nothing I wrote was related to you or any specific individual. To clarify, I am not suggesting that anyone who is Republican OR anyone who is a "Trumpster" is deserving of any type of "comeuppance".

However, as I boldly (and emboldenedly) stated, rather dramatically and quite graphically: Trump, his immediate family (who were complicit with their nepotismic appointment to positions for which they are neither unqualified nor incompetent), and his sycophantic enablers (read: individuals who are elected to represent and protect their constituents, and serve as a balance on the Executive Branch but instead blindly serve/support their leader as toadies despite the majority/will of said constituents), deserve the same fate, and certainly nothing in the form of an olive branch.
Oh I know, man. I was just trying to remove any doubt.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

Zip City
Posts: 17313
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:59 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

Cole Younger wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:08 pm
Zip City wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:44 pm
Is the "normalization of rioting" a thing that's happening anywhere but the fringes of the internet? I don't know anyone who condones it, and I haven't heard a single talking head condone it.
Around four years ago Maxine Waters encouraged angry democrats who were already chanting “Not My President” and calling themselves “the resistance” (the same people who now say they want unity since they got their way) to “go out, find Trump supporters, surround them, and let them know they aren’t welcome here.”

AOC as recently as September I believe (but am not positive) said, “Stay in the streets!” and VP elect Harris told the rioters “It’s working.” And I have no doubt that since they paid little to no price for it they indeed will think it did work and will do it the next time they don’t like something. I figure it’s a matter of time before the other side starts doing it now. It’s already being talked about. And I bet they won’t be called “peaceful protestors”. I’m old enough to remember when the Tea Party, a bunch of people holding signs, were characterized as a dangerous right wing mob of nazis who were a “threat to democracy”.
But there is a difference between peaceful protestors and rioters. I doubt Sen Harris was speaking to looters, but I’m happy to look at any articles you have to the contrary.

There’s a huge difference in the covering if these protests on a media level. One side is focusing on the peace, the other on the rioting. I wonder who benefits from projecting a small handful of violent rioters into a plurality of peaceful protestors? Perhaps the party that has sowed in division these past four years? We’re the people who were teargassed to clear the way for Trump’s Bible photo op rioting and looting?
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

More like we need to ignore the rioting because of what side they are associated with.

When acts of racism or white supremacy aren’t vigorously condemned but just sort of ignored, that’s not ok right? So when rioting is at best just sort of downplayed that’s not ok either.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

Zip City
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

Cole Younger wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:46 pm
More like we need to ignore the rioting because of what side they are associated with.

When acts of racism or white supremacy aren’t vigorously condemned but just sort of ignored, that’s not ok right? So when rioting is at best just sort of downplayed that’s not ok either.
We agree. I don’t condone rioting and don’t think anyone else should. The violence cast the overall positive nature of the summer protests into a terrible light, and that was used to fuel a lot of anti-democratic sentiment
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

Zip City wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:49 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:46 pm
More like we need to ignore the rioting because of what side they are associated with.

When acts of racism or white supremacy aren’t vigorously condemned but just sort of ignored, that’s not ok right? So when rioting is at best just sort of downplayed that’s not ok either.
We agree. I don’t condone rioting and don’t think anyone else should. The violence cast the overall positive nature of the summer protests into a terrible light, and that was used to fuel a lot of anti-democratic sentiment
Yeah I agree with that.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

Zip City
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

And the condoning of bad acts happens in both directions. The police are receiving a lot of hate, not because people believe they are ALL racists or ALL want to shoot people on the street, but because a lot of them condone the few who do
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

Zip City wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:57 pm
And the condoning of bad acts happens in both directions. The police are receiving a lot of hate, not because people believe they are ALL racists or ALL want to shoot people on the street, but because a lot of them condone the few who do
I know it. I’m in a quandary on police. I can’t stand people who abuse power. That’s why I hate both political parties. No the democrats are not better in that regard. But I think “ defund the police” is sheer idiocy at worst and a knee jerk political reaction at best. Nobody has a good solution for the problem.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

John A Arkansawyer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

As a practical matter, you can't tell some people on your side to get off the streets and not others. It's either in the streets or off the streets. You take the blame for whichever part of what you advocate turns up wrong. Very few choices don't come with downsides.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:08 pm
As a practical matter, you can't tell some people on your side to get off the streets and not others. It's either in the streets or off the streets. You take the blame for whichever part of what you advocate turns up wrong. Very few choices don't come with downsides.
Amen, brother. But these grease balls never pay for it. They are never held accountable. Because nobody cares about anything but “winning” and vengeance.
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

At least a portion of the media is turning its attention to the bipartisan efforts at the state level to end the war on drugs. Nicholas Kristof's column in today's NYT is representative, both supporting the changing thinking and warning that there are still dangers that must be addressed. In discussing the roots of the war, Kristof quotes Nixon aide John Ehrlichman on their thinking at the start of the war:

" “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and Black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or Black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and Blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities.”"

Whoever we are today and whoever and whatever we think we support, it behooves us to remember that all politicians are scum and they do not have our best interests at heart. Nixon and Ehrlichman have always been bottom of my personal barrel so there's an argument that others just aren't as bad, but the message is still Question Authority.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

John A Arkansawyer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

Cole Younger wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:10 pm
John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:08 pm
As a practical matter, you can't tell some people on your side to get off the streets and not others. It's either in the streets or off the streets. You take the blame for whichever part of what you advocate turns up wrong. Very few choices don't come with downsides.
Amen, brother. But these grease balls never pay for it. They are never held accountable. Because nobody cares about anything but “winning” and vengeance.
There are going to be a lot of people paying for participating in the rioting, both the justifiable and the unjustifiable parts of it. That's no different from participating in seriously disruptive non-violent civil disobedience: People went to prison for that and still do.

And there's no dodging the blame. I remind myself every now and then I thought the Concert for Kampuchea was a great idea. No one has to hold me accountable for that. I take care of it on my own.

I don't care much for vengeance myself and recommend against it whenever possible, but I am staying alive in part to pee on two not-yet-filled graves. I do care a lot about winning when it comes down to a fight, but I'd rather not fight even if I can win, so long as I can get a fair deal without it.

I'm thinking now about taking my winter vacation time and volunteering for the Georgia election. That's a fight I really want to win. Plus the kid is interested in helping, and that might mean the kid's mom makes the trip out for a few days, too. So I'm happy.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

305 Engine
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

beantownbubba wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:29 pm


Whoever we are today and whoever and whatever we think we support, it behooves us to remember that all politicians are scum and they do not have our best interests at heart. Nixon and Ehrlichman have always been bottom of my personal barrel so there's an argument that others just aren't as bad, but the message is still Question Authority.
I don't think it's helpful to believe that all politicans are scum. Some are. Some aren't. Most are probably somewhere inbetween and that goes for the rest of humanity.

Is the system setup so that it helps the scum to rise to the surface? Well that's another thing.

But yeah, always ask questions. Here are some good ones:

“What power have you got?"
"Where did you get it from?"
"In whose interests do you exercise it?" "
"To whom are you accountable?"
"How can we get rid of you?”

Cole Younger
Posts: 3989
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:58 pm
Cole Younger wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:10 pm
John A Arkansawyer wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:08 pm
As a practical matter, you can't tell some people on your side to get off the streets and not others. It's either in the streets or off the streets. You take the blame for whichever part of what you advocate turns up wrong. Very few choices don't come with downsides.
Amen, brother. But these grease balls never pay for it. They are never held accountable. Because nobody cares about anything but “winning” and vengeance.
There are going to be a lot of people paying for participating in the rioting, both the justifiable and the unjustifiable parts of it. That's no different from participating in seriously disruptive non-violent civil disobedience: People went to prison for that and still do.

And there's no dodging the blame. I remind myself every now and then I thought the Concert for Kampuchea was a great idea. No one has to hold me accountable for that. I take care of it on my own.

I don't care much for vengeance myself and recommend against it whenever possible, but I am staying alive in part to pee on two not-yet-filled graves. I do care a lot about winning when it comes down to a fight, but I'd rather not fight even if I can win, so long as I can get a fair deal without it.

I'm thinking now about taking my winter vacation time and volunteering for the Georgia election. That's a fight I really want to win. Plus the kid is interested in helping, and that might mean the kid's mom makes the trip out for a few days, too. So I'm happy.
Two things, I’ve been in some fights. I won’t get into that. I will admit to sort of enjoying it. I’m just being honest. But a lot of times, even when you win, you lose.

Also, working on the Georgia elections hits close to home and I’m going just stay way from that except to say you’re free to do that, but I got a ration of shit a month or so back for talking about something going on in California and asked why I had anything to say about it and told I should have more empathy. As Sonny Liston said, “Life a funny thing.”
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

LBRod
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

305 Engine wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:53 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:29 pm


Whoever we are today and whoever and whatever we think we support, it behooves us to remember that all politicians are scum and they do not have our best interests at heart.
I don't think it's helpful to believe that all politicans are scum. Some are. Some aren't. Most are probably somewhere inbetween and that goes for the rest of humanity.

And all them politicians, they're all lying sacks of shit.
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff.

Zip City
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

Cole Younger
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

Zip City wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:50 pm
😯How is this different from what the democrats just spent four years doing? “Not my president.” “We are the resistance.” I almost can’t believe somebody had the nerve to type what that guy said. You would think he’d be too embarrassed. Didn’t they start talking about impeachment before the swearing in? Good Lord talk about a blind spot.
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beantownbubba
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

305 Engine wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:53 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:29 pm


Whoever we are today and whoever and whatever we think we support, it behooves us to remember that all politicians are scum and they do not have our best interests at heart. Nixon and Ehrlichman have always been bottom of my personal barrel so there's an argument that others just aren't as bad, but the message is still Question Authority.
I don't think it's helpful to believe that all politicans are scum. Some are. Some aren't. Most are probably somewhere inbetween and that goes for the rest of humanity.

Is the system setup so that it helps the scum to rise to the surface? Well that's another thing.

But yeah, always ask questions. Here are some good ones:

“What power have you got?"
"Where did you get it from?"
"In whose interests do you exercise it?" "
"To whom are you accountable?"
"How can we get rid of you?”
Yeah, if I read instead of wrote that post I might be saying the same things you are. Absolutes are always (see what I did there?) suspect. But no, upon reflection, I'll only go so far as to say there are different levels of scum, some way more egregious than others. And I don't necessarily think that they're scum as a result of a flawed personality. While I do think politics attracts some strange and dangerous people, in this context I'm really talking about the system: There is no way, none, yes, an absolute statement, to be a politician in the USA without selling your soul to a degree. The insidious effects of big money are part of it, but it's more than that. Watch any US politician being interviewed: They are rewarded more the less they say and they will tie themselves into knots not to say anything of substance. They don't lead, they follow (or as is sometimes said, they lead from behind) and they don't have positions and principles they have opinions and trial balloons. And that's without considering good old fashioned corruption in the quid pro quo or taking personal advantage senses. There's way more than a lot of that at every level.

Trump was actually something of an exception: He is deeply, deeply corrupt on a personal level, way worse than average, but at least a fair percentage of the time he says what he thinks. The problem with him is that he doesn't think about what he says (which is not to suggest he should be more inhibited, but rather that he should think about the subjects he addresses rather than just spouting off). Bottom line, I recognize that it is perhaps a difficult position to justify but I'm sticking with it.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Cole Younger wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:58 pm
Zip City wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:50 pm
😯How is this different from what the democrats just spent four years doing? “Not my president.” “We are the resistance.” I almost can’t believe somebody had the nerve to type what that guy said. You would think he’d be too embarrassed. Didn’t they start talking about impeachment before the swearing in? Good Lord talk about a blind spot.
I think the quote is wrong. I don't think the Republican Party's agenda is to convince its faithful that they're being treated unfairly. The Party's agenda is in fact to dispute the election and to call into question the very foundations of our Constitutional/small r republican/small d pseudo democratic system by making wild allegations without any evidence and to some extent by promoting violent opposition. As stated I get your point/reaction but I think this is just a distraction because the initial quote incorrectly describes what's happening.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

I think you’re both missing the point.

As far back as Reagan (welfare queens) but probably as far back as Nixon, the GOP’s messaging has been “hey white blue collar/middle class voters, your life is pretty good, but bad people are coming to take that away from you!” The bad people have included (at various times) black people, Mexicans, gay people, non-Christians, Muslims, communists, hippies, etc. This has allowed a large swath of voters to believe that their own hardships are not their own fault (and certainly not the government’s fault), but the OTHER’S fault. You didn’t lose your job, someone stole it from you! Your company didn’t send your job overseas, China stole it from you.

The point of the tweet is that this election challenge simply follows the narrative; we didn’t lose, this was stolen from us. Not our fault, we are forever the victim.

I believe Cooley has written a song or twelve about this...
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

LBRod wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:53 pm
305 Engine wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:53 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:29 pm


Whoever we are today and whoever and whatever we think we support, it behooves us to remember that all politicians are scum and they do not have our best interests at heart.
I don't think it's helpful to believe that all politicans are scum. Some are. Some aren't. Most are probably somewhere inbetween and that goes for the rest of humanity.

And all them politicians, they're all lying sacks of shit.
I'm guessing Mr Hood put that lyric out of his mind when he endorsed his local mayor candidate the other day!

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

305 Engine wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:18 am
LBRod wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:53 pm
305 Engine wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:53 pm


I don't think it's helpful to believe that all politicans are scum. Some are. Some aren't. Most are probably somewhere inbetween and that goes for the rest of humanity.

And all them politicians, they're all lying sacks of shit.
I'm guessing Mr Hood put that lyric out of his mind when he endorsed his local mayor candidate the other day!

Do you think that was Hood’s opinion when he wrote that lyric?
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

Zip City wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:23 am
305 Engine wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:18 am
LBRod wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:53 pm


And all them politicians, they're all lying sacks of shit.
I'm guessing Mr Hood put that lyric out of his mind when he endorsed his local mayor candidate the other day!

Do you think that was Hood’s opinion when he wrote that lyric?
No, he was singing in character. Then again, we probably have all thought that thought at one time or another.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 305 Engine »

Im not familiar with Mark Harris or exactly where he sits politically, but its definitely the case that far left and far right often end up echoing each other. Particularly on the "we're being conspired against!" narrative.

Agree that he's wrong here. It doesnt seem to me that there's a coherent message coming out of the Republican party at all. It looks more like a split between Trump (and assorted sycophants) and the rest of the party.

If i find a bookmaker who'll take the bet, I'll put money on Trump forming his own party next year.

Cole Younger
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

Zip City wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:06 am
I think you’re both missing the point.

As far back as Reagan (welfare queens) but probably as far back as Nixon, the GOP’s messaging has been “hey white blue collar/middle class voters, your life is pretty good, but bad people are coming to take that away from you!” The bad people have included (at various times) black people, Mexicans, gay people, non-Christians, Muslims, communists, hippies, etc. This has allowed a large swath of voters to believe that their own hardships are not their own fault (and certainly not the government’s fault), but the OTHER’S fault. You didn’t lose your job, someone stole it from you! Your company didn’t send your job overseas, China stole it from you.

The point of the tweet is that this election challenge simply follows the narrative; we didn’t lose, this was stolen from us. Not our fault, we are forever the victim.

I believe Cooley has written a song or twelve about this...
Aren’t you the guy that was lecturing me on empathy the other day?
A single shot rifle and a one eyed dog.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

Cole Younger wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:39 pm
We now have AOC saying she wants lists of names of people who voted for Trump.
i hadn't heard any of this but is this what you're referring to? because if it is, it's not the same thing as you're saying... her point is to preserve people's stances that they made in the past and if that alignment comes back to haunt them in the future, so be it - no one forced them to take those actions. it's not nearly the same thing as holding people to task over who they voted for (and i'm not even sure one could produce a list like that legally, but regardless it's not what she was suggesting happen).

https://nypost.com/2020/11/06/aoc-facin ... ycophants/
Ocasio-Cortez received a since-deleted response from an ex-staffer of former President Barack Obama, Michael Simon, who shared a link to a site called The Trump Accountability Project.

The site says it aims to embarrass and hold accountable people complicit in the worst behaviors of Trump’s presidency, including his campaign staff, White House staff, donors and even lawyers.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cole Younger »

tinnitus photography wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:51 am
Cole Younger wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:39 pm
We now have AOC saying she wants lists of names of people who voted for Trump.
i hadn't heard any of this but is this what you're referring to? because if it is, it's not the same thing as you're saying... her point is to preserve people's stances that they made in the past and if that alignment comes back to haunt them in the future, so be it - no one forced them to take those actions. it's not nearly the same thing as holding people to task over who they voted for (and i'm not even sure one could produce a list like that legally, but regardless it's not what she was suggesting happen).

https://nypost.com/2020/11/06/aoc-facin ... ycophants/
Ocasio-Cortez received a since-deleted response from an ex-staffer of former President Barack Obama, Michael Simon, who shared a link to a site called The Trump Accountability Project.

The site says it aims to embarrass and hold accountable people complicit in the worst behaviors of Trump’s presidency, including his campaign staff, White House staff, donors and even lawyers.
Ten four. Good. I still don’t know what she thinks she’s going to do with such a list in terms of practicality. And as you say, I don’t know how she gets one legally in the first place but I doubt what’s legal will stand in her way. Maybe in the future somebody will want a list of her sycophants. I bet that won’t be kosher.
Last edited by Cole Younger on Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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