The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

[Zip City]

While American election cycles are exhausting, I simply can't "be over" an election this important

[John A Arkansawyer]

Anyone else already over the election? Trump's going to win. It's blindly obvious. My hope is that the Dems can ride the vast anti-Trump sentiment into taking over the Senate and neutering him.

It's not at all obvious Trump is going to win, and beating him is much likelier than Democrats taking the Senate.

[Iowan]

By "over it" I mean accepting an outcome that isn't good long before it actually comes to fruition.

I mean, a lot of the damage Trump can/will do has been done. The thing that scares me the most if he wins, is how long will it take him to start trying to repeal the 22nd Amendment? That's the biggest threat of a second Trump term.

[Iowan]

Anyone else already over the election? Trump's going to win. It's blindly obvious. My hope is that the Dems can ride the vast anti-Trump sentiment into taking over the Senate and neutering him.

It's not at all obvious Trump is going to win, and beating him is much likelier than Democrats taking the Senate.

I may be looking at my own state too much. Bernie Sanders absolutely will not win Iowa, but we have a very realistic shot of taking down our first term Republican Senator.

[beantownbubba]

I mean, a lot of the damage Trump can/will do has been done.

I totally disagree. I'm actually somewhere between very surprised and shocked by that statement. Even with a Democratically controlled Congress (or at least control of 1 House) he can and will do serious and perhaps irreversible damage. With control of Congress, the potential for harm is virtually unlimited. Let's assume that more Trump judges is "merely" incremental. But then let's consider 4 more years w/out an active response to climate change (much less a world leadership role in addressing it) multiplied by the active rollback of existing environmental protections, the active encouragement by various means of fossil fuel usage/dependence and the slashing of r&d and early stage funding for alternative energy. Four more years of constant lying and undermining the foundations of democracy including reducing the judiciary to an appendix like useless appendage, four more years of anti intellectualism and anti science screeds and actions and four more years of an unfettered Trump continuing to act as either as an agent of or a useful idiot for Russia. Eight years of Trump will mean that essentially an entire generation will grow up thinking this (however you define it) is normal and that alone is enough to rewire the entire political/social culture. Oh, and then there's Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, food stamps and the rest of the safety net. Four more years of economic policy being guided by what will benefit Trump personally. Four more years of stirring up racial animosities with the likely result of regular violence against targeted groups. There won't be anymore "dog whistles," there will be something akin to active cheerleading and/or express instructions. The list goes on.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Anyone else already over the election? Trump's going to win. It's blindly obvious. My hope is that the Dems can ride the vast anti-Trump sentiment into taking over the Senate and neutering him.

It's not at all obvious Trump is going to win, and beating him is much likelier than Democrats taking the Senate.

I don't agree with you at all on the Senate. Mark Kelly in AZ has a 7 point lead, Hickenlooper in Colorado has a 12 point lead, Gideon is starting to open up a lead over Collins in Maine and Smith is up by 7 in North Carolina. Plus there's still a chance for the special election in GA. Even if Doug Jones loses in Alabama those seats would be enough. I actually think we're approaching "likely" in terms of the Dems taking the Senate. Not sure on the President.

[Iowan]

I mean, a lot of the damage Trump can/will do has been done.

I totally disagree. I'm actually somewhere between very surprised and shocked by that statement. Even with a Democratically controlled Congress (or at least control of 1 House) he can and will do serious and perhaps irreversible damage. With control of Congress, the potential for harm is virtually unlimited. Let's assume that more Trump judges is "merely" incremental. But then let's consider 4 more years w/out an active response to climate change (much less a world leadership role in addressing it) multiplied by the active rollback of existing environmental protections, the active encouragement by various means of fossil fuel usage/dependence and the slashing of r&d and early stage funding for alternative energy. Four more years of constant lying and undermining the foundations of democracy including reducing the judiciary to an appendix like useless appendage, four more years of anti intellectualism and anti science screeds and actions and four more years of an unfettered Trump continuing to act as either as an agent of or a useful idiot for Russia. Eight years of Trump will mean that essentially an entire generation will grow up thinking this (however you define it) is normal and that alone is enough to rewire the entire political/social culture. Oh, and then there's Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, food stamps and the rest of the safety net. Four more years of economic policy being guided by what will benefit Trump personally. Four more years of stirring up racial animosities with the likely result of regular violence against targeted groups. There won't be anymore "dog whistles," there will be something akin to active cheerleading and/or express instructions. The list goes on.

This is the single greatest danger of Trump, and that horse is out of the barn. I don't know how to reign it back in, but the barn has already burnt.

[chuckrh]

after some initial qualms I've finally decided that I have to vote with my heart & go for Bernie. sent in my primary ballot for him (its in a few weeks in Washington). i had reservations about his age but he's pretty robust. i was interested in Warren but she has finally caved & is taking money from super PACs. Bernie has stuck to his principles. i think he has the moxie to stand up to Trump. the system is clearly broken to the point that the US is a failed experiment. greed has overtaken everything & the government isn't anything close to functioning. time to tear it down. it will be a battle but as someone who has to deal with the health care system in a big way its time to get with the rest of the civilized world & take the middle men out of the equation. the ones siphoning off huge amounts of cash while contributing nothing. it's obscene. i'm in deductable season & its nearly breaking me. & I supposedly have "good" insurance. i've seen firsthand the insane amounts of money being thrown at the military & it just has to stop. ya, we need a military but we don't need football fields full of tanks that will never be used while the country falls apart. Bernie is scaring the crap out of the establishment on both sides because he makes so much sense. i just hope they don't take him out. it's not out of the realm of possibility. i probably have more of a limited time left than most but i want the kids i care about to have a better country. there's an intense amount of brainwashing going on out there. i grew up during the vietnam years & things have done a total 180 from then via intense & relentless propaganda. i watched a PBS documentary on Jeff Bezos a few weeks ago where he was talking about consumerism like its a religion. of course we know who he wants the high priest to be. it just has to stop. we live in some dark times if you really look at it. it's the fourth reich, what the germans were trying to do pre WW2. sorry for the rant. its time for a reset.

[pearlbeer]

I mean, a lot of the damage Trump can/will do has been done.

No way. Climate change. Defunding of the EPA, CDC - Covid19 anyone? Wasting billions on a fucking wall no one wants. Another Obamacare challenge coming up.
Don't kid yourself - there is a hell of a lot more to come.

[Iowan]

I mean, a lot of the damage Trump can/will do has been done.

No way. Climate change. Defunding of the EPA, CDC - Covid19 anyone? Wasting billions on a fucking wall no one wants. Another Obamacare challenge coming up.
Don't kid yourself - there is a hell of a lot more to come.

All of which pales in comparison to the erosion of the idea of agreed upon facts, and the cult-like worship of the leader of the world's largest "democratic" power.

Trump is literally worshiped by 30% of this country. These people will agree on, or do anything that he instructs them to. Anything.

That damage is done, and he can (and likely will) start doubling down on it when he refuses to abdicate power. Whether that's in January, or 4 years from now.

[cortez the killer]

Trump is literally worshiped by 30% of this country. These people will agree on, or do anything that he instructs them to. Anything.

And a recent poll just showed that 38% of the citizens in the United States believe the coronavirus is associated with Corona beer. If only the Democratic Party could figure out a way to stop fucking nitpicking at each other and dividing the party. I have little faith they can/will accomplish any sense of party unity and coherence. Eyes on the prize, assholes!

[Iowan]

Trump is literally worshiped by 30% of this country. These people will agree on, or do anything that he instructs them to. Anything.

And a recent poll just showed that 38% of the citizens in the United States believe the coronavirus is associated with Corona beer. If only the Democratic Party could figure out a way to stop fucking nitpicking at each other and dividing the party. I have little faith they can/will accomplish any sense of party unity and coherence. Eyes on the prize, assholes!

Pretty much.

[pearlbeer]

Trump is literally worshiped by 30% of this country. These people will agree on, or do anything that he instructs them to. Anything.

And a recent poll just showed that 38% of the citizens in the United States believe the coronavirus is associated with Corona beer. If only the Democratic Party could figure out a way to stop fucking nitpicking at each other and dividing the party. I have little faith they can/will accomplish any sense of party unity and coherence. Eyes on the prize, assholes!

Agreed...but also think back to the shitshow that was the Republican primary at this point. Our nomination process is stupid.

[Iowan]

Trump is literally worshiped by 30% of this country. These people will agree on, or do anything that he instructs them to. Anything.

And a recent poll just showed that 38% of the citizens in the United States believe the coronavirus is associated with Corona beer. If only the Democratic Party could figure out a way to stop fucking nitpicking at each other and dividing the party. I have little faith they can/will accomplish any sense of party unity and coherence. Eyes on the prize, assholes!

Agreed...but also think back to the shitshow that was the Republican primary at this point. Our nomination process is stupid.

The difference is that Republicans eventually just fall in line and support the nominee. Democrats do not, and they likely will not this fall - regardless of whether it's Bernie or Biden.

[Clams]

Klobuchar, Steyer and Buttigieg out

[cortez the killer]

Klobuchar, Steyer and Buttigieg out

Progress! Now if the "part-time Democrat" would get out of the way, the party could start to rally and build a coalition.

[pearlbeer]

And a recent poll just showed that 38% of the citizens in the United States believe the coronavirus is associated with Corona beer. If only the Democratic Party could figure out a way to stop fucking nitpicking at each other and dividing the party. I have little faith they can/will accomplish any sense of party unity and coherence. Eyes on the prize, assholes!

Agreed...but also think back to the shitshow that was the Republican primary at this point. Our nomination process is stupid.

The difference is that Republicans eventually just fall in line and support the nominee. Democrats do not, and they likely will not this fall - regardless of whether it's Bernie or Biden.

Time will tell, but I (respectfully) disagree. Once the nominee is chosen they will rush to the middle and we will generally fall in line. I think all of this nervous hand wringing is a bit silly. At the end of the everyone will need to answer the question - so you don't like them...and you'd vote for Trump? I don't think this election will be about the typical "fight for the middle". There isn't much of a middle anymore. It will be about turnout.

[Flea]

Klobuchar, Steyer and Buttigieg out

Progress! Now if the "part-time Democrat" would get out of the way, the party could start to rally and build a coalition.

I trust the "part-time Democrat" substantially more than the Democratic candidates attached to the Corporate tits.

[Iowan]

Agreed...but also think back to the shitshow that was the Republican primary at this point. Our nomination process is stupid.

The difference is that Republicans eventually just fall in line and support the nominee. Democrats do not, and they likely will not this fall - regardless of whether it's Bernie or Biden.

Time will tell, but I (respectfully) disagree. Once the nominee is chosen they will rush to the middle and we will generally fall in line. I think all of this nervous hand wringing is a bit silly. At the end of the everyone will need to answer the question - so you don't like them...and you'd vote for Trump? I don't think this election will be about the typical "fight for the middle". There isn't much of a middle anymore. It will be about turnout.

I dunno. I know it's hard to see outside our own bubbles, but I'm moderate left as is most of my family and a large chunk of my friends. I know a lot of people that would seriously consider sitting out Bernie, despite their disdain for Trump.

If there was a sane, moderate Republican, I wouldn't vote for Bernie. There isn't a sane moderate Republican (maybe not in the whole damn party), so I'm feeling the Bern. I think Trump is absolutely the greater evil and I'm voting for literally any remaining Democrat, but I'm not optimistic about Bernie's ability to win the middle which does actually exist, especially in battleground states, and has a real ability to effect this election.

While I don't feel that a move towards socialism is equal to the damage Trump is doing, I think it's a legitimate viewpoint, and I see an awful lot of dismissive attitude towards those folks (not accusing you off this - I see it more elsewhere).

I hope you're right. I do think Bernie will slide to the middle in the general, but it's imperative he does. Trump will hammer the "communism" meme, and unlike previous Democrats, it will resonate with an audience beyond the radical right. Bernie better be ready to fight that tooth and nail if we have any hope.

[pearlbeer]

Time will tell, but I (respectfully) disagree. Once the nominee is chosen they will rush to the middle and we will generally fall in line. I think all of this nervous hand wringing is a bit silly. At the end of the everyone will need to answer the question - so you don't like them...and you'd vote for Trump? I don't think this election will be about the typical "fight for the middle". There isn't much of a middle anymore. It will be about turnout.

I dunno. I know it's hard to see outside our own bubbles, but I'm moderate left as is most of my family and a large chunk of my friends. I know a lot of people that would seriously consider sitting out Bernie, despite their disdain for Trump.

If there was a sane, moderate Republican, I wouldn't vote for Bernie. There isn't a sane moderate Republican (maybe not in the whole damn party), so I'm feeling the Bern. I think Trump is absolutely the greater evil and I'm voting for literally any remaining Democrat, but I'm not optimistic about Bernie's ability to win the middle which does actually exist, especially in battleground states, and has a real ability to effect this election.

While I don't feel that a move towards socialism is equal to the damage Trump is doing, I think it's a legitimate viewpoint, and I see an awful lot of dismissive attitude towards those folks (not accusing you off this - I see it more elsewhere).

I hope you're right. I do think Bernie will slide to the middle in the general, but it's imperative he does. Trump will hammer the "communism" meme, and unlike previous Democrats, it will resonate with an audience beyond the radical right. Bernie better be ready to fight that tooth and nail if we have any hope.

All good points. Trump will hammer the "communism" meme and every other thing he can come up with regardless. We certainly shouldn't be choosing a candidate based on their potential Trump moniker. God I hate that fucker. Fuck Trump!

[cortez the killer]

Klobuchar, Steyer and Buttigieg out

Progress! Now if the "part-time Democrat" would get out of the way, the party could start to rally and build a coalition.

I trust the "part-time Democrat" substantially more than the Democratic candidates attached to the Corporate tits.

In neither my heart, mind nor urethra do I feel the Bern.

[schlanky]

Trump will hammer the "communism" meme, and unlike previous Democrats, it will resonate with an audience beyond the radical right. Bernie better be ready to fight that tooth and nail if we have any hope.

True, but it's not like Biden will have it much easier than Bernie if he is the nominee. Either one of them is going to have to be ready for a big fight in the general election---and from what I've seen thus far, I think Trump will eat Biden alive in a debate.

[beantownbubba]

Was it only about 8 months ago when the Democratic Party had over 20 declared candidates for president and the pundits were all saying that the resulting chaos and confusion was a good thing because it indicated the depth of the Democratic bench?

Wasn't it just a few years ago when Super Tuesday was introduced to diminish the influence of 3 small states that will have virtually no impact on the general election but get to decide who will be in that general election?

So how did we wind up w/ 2 such lackluster candidates? Well, partly it was the good people of IA, NH and SC who got us here and with all due respect I really don't need them making decisions for me/the rest of us. Part of it is the inexplicable mystery of inside politics, big money and media created perceptions of winners/losers, hot/cold, momentum/lack thereof. I'm sure there are other factors But whatever the reasons, here we are.

The only thing, the ONLY thing that matters in this upcoming election is beating Trump and the choices are down to two of the least likely candidates to do that. Neither was literally in the top half of my choices when the field was over 20 and they're both still in my bottom ten of the 3 remaining. I am truly puzzled about how anyone can take a look at this country and think that Sanders has any chance of beating Trump or how anyone can anticipate what a Biden-Trump campaign might look like and conclude that Biden could possibly win that no rules brawl. Talk about bringing a butter knife to a tank fight...

I'll probably vote for Warren today as a protest against the absurd primary system and the two unacceptable choices I'm "supposed" to choose between. How in the era of #metoo, the women's march, ok boomer & the rise of the millennials, the commitment to "diversity" and representation of minorities of the Democratic Party, and the general cultural discrimination against and distrust of older folks did we end up with a choice between two septuagenarian white men? I am so very discouraged. Angry. Despairing. Depressed. Frustrated. Scared.

[Iowan]

I'm starting to think Liz is our only remaining hope. If she can just limp into the convention still alive, I think there's a real chance of her being a compromise nominee.

[Sterling Bigmouth]

Was it only about 8 months ago when the Democratic Party had over 20 declared candidates for president and the pundits were all saying that the resulting chaos and confusion was a good thing because it indicated the depth of the Democratic bench?

Wasn't it just a few years ago when Super Tuesday was introduced to diminish the influence of 3 small states that will have virtually no impact on the general election but get to decide who will be in that general election?

So how did we wind up w/ 2 such lackluster candidates? Well, partly it was the good people of IA, NH and SC who got us here and with all due respect I really don't need them making decisions for me/the rest of us. Part of it is the inexplicable mystery of inside politics, big money and media created perceptions of winners/losers, hot/cold, momentum/lack thereof. I'm sure there are other factors But whatever the reasons, here we are.

The only thing, the ONLY thing that matters in this upcoming election is beating Trump and the choices are down to two of the least likely candidates to do that. Neither was literally in the top half of my choices when the field was over 20 and they're both still in my bottom ten of the 3 remaining. I am truly puzzled about how anyone can take a look at this country and think that Sanders has any chance of beating Trump or how anyone can anticipate what a Biden-Trump campaign might look like and conclude that Biden could possibly win that no rules brawl. Talk about bringing a butter knife to a tank fight...

I'll probably vote for Warren today as a protest against the absurd primary system and the two unacceptable choices I'm "supposed" to choose between. How in the era of #metoo, the women's march, ok boomer & the rise of the millennials, the commitment to "diversity" and representation of minorities of the Democratic Party, and the general cultural discrimination against and distrust of older folks did we end up with a choice between two septuagenarian white men? I am so very discouraged. Angry. Despairing. Depressed. Frustrated. Scared.

While I agree with your general sense of disappointment in the direction of this primary, even when the field was wide open with 20 candidates I’m not sure there was a single candidate I’d have been comfortable taking into a general with Trump. I was drawn to Yang, and wasn’t outright opposed to anyone but Harris, Steyer, Buttigieg, and Bloomberg, but it seems like every candidate in the field suffered from some combination of being being unproven, incapable of fundraising, and for lack of a better word, straight up boring. The Biden/Bernie dilemma isn’t ideal, but I think it’s the path we knew the DNC would go down before this whole thing even got going. I have a feeling after today Bernie will still be the favorite, but Biden will hang around long enough to outlast him in the end. Unfortunately, none of this bodes well for November, but that’s seemed to be the theme of this entire primary season. Fuck.

[beantownbubba]

While I agree with your general sense of disappointment in the direction of this primary, even when the field was wide open with 20 candidates I’m not sure there was a single candidate I’d have been comfortable taking into a general with Trump. I was drawn to Yang, and wasn’t outright opposed to anyone but Harris, Steyer, Buttigieg, and Bloomberg, but it seems like every candidate in the field suffered from some combination of being being unproven, incapable of fundraising, and for lack of a better word, straight up boring.

You're right about this. I didn't intend to "romanticize" the state of things a year ago. Nor do I mean to suggest that Biden & Bernie don't represent a choice because they both happen to be old, white and male. But it's a little hard to believe that such an unusually large field featuring a range of strengths and weaknesses boiled down to two old, deeply flawed (as candidates) white guys neither of whom seem to be the best choice to achieve the single overriding goal of the entire exercise.

[Zip City]

I don't know why the media has decided that this is a two-person race. Warren only has 8 pledged delegates (compared to 60 for Sanders and 54 for Biden), but when the finish line is 1991, it's ridiculous to say she's out of it. I get that she's not polling strongly, but today will answer a lot of questions about her prospects

[cortez the killer]

I'm starting to think Liz is our only remaining hope.

[Iowan]

I'm starting to think Liz is our only remaining hope.

Biden has Ukraine. Bernie has "Communist". Warren only has Pocahontas, which after getting one of those stupid 23 and Me things for Christmas, becomes a hell of a lot easier to explain.

I think (perhaps naively) that she's progressive enough to satisfy the Bernie camp, but not so far left that the "Communist" meme will stick to her (outside of people who weren't going to vote for a Democrat anyway). It seems like her political chops and ability to "take a punch" have improved through the process. I don't know if anyone has a chance to beat Trump at this point, but she's got the least baggage to me.

[Mr. B]

I'm starting to think Liz is our only remaining hope.

Biden has Ukraine. Bernie has "Communist". Warren only has Pocahontas, which after getting one of those stupid 23 and Me things for Christmas, becomes a hell of a lot easier to explain.

I think (perhaps naively) that she's progressive enough to satisfy the Bernie camp, but not so far left that the "Communist" meme will stick to her (outside of people who weren't going to vote for a Democrat anyway). It seems like her political chops and ability to "take a punch" have improved through the process. I don't know if anyone has a chance to beat Trump at this point, but she's got the least baggage to me.

She's always been my favorite candidate or at least in the top 2, and I still have trouble understanding why the Bernie crowd flocked to him rather than her. That said, when I vote in two weeks I'll probably be voting for Biden. And that's really fucked-up, but such are the times we live in.