The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

ramonz wrote:My mom is 79 and my dad is 88. They have never voted Democrat in their lives. Ever. My mom is so disgusted with Trump that there's ZERO chance she would vote for him again. Not 100% certain on my dad, but I'm pretty sure he's in the same boat (he's not as vocal in his distaste for Trump). These are good-hearted, generous, and giving folks who have voted Republican their whole lives, mostly because they've always believed that being fiscally conservative was important. Depression era and all that. But if they are any example, I think there IS a solid group of lifelong Republicans that can't stand this guy now that they've seen what he is all about (or not about). Dad was a marine, honor and duty are in his DNA. How could he ever vote for Trump again? This age group votes, but I'd bet 20% of conservative elderly folks will either not pull the lever in 2020 (can't vote for Trump but can't vote for a Democrat), or will take a leap and see what's on the other side. We'll see, but if the margin of victory is as small as it was in 2016, maybe people like my mom and dad will make the difference.
My 80 year old mother has made a similar shift in the age of Trump, although in her case I’ve never understood why she was a Republican in the first place, but she was and she was unwavering. She’s pro choice, anti death penalty and very much in favor of gun control. Her main issue seemed to be that she bought into the narrative that Democrats ruined race relations in the 60’s because everything was hunky dory before that. For her the Jim Crow South was something you completely ignored in the comfortable Midwest and she misinterpreted segregation in the north as the races wanted to be among themselves. She grew up in an area with with a significant African-American population and went to schools where she interacted with them, but she mistook “stay in your lane” as the status quo everyone wanted, and never quite understood that not “everyone” wanted that. She blamed Johnson and the Democrats for ruining this mythical tranquility. This held for five decades. When Barrack Obama ran for the Senate against a nut job right winger she voted for my dog, despite liking Obama very much as a person. She voted against him in 2008 and 2012 for the Presidency as well, again despite liking he and his family. When she moved to Mississippi she mentioned casually to me something she had seen on Fox and Friends and I urged her to turn that shit off. She argued that she was a Republican but I told her she wasn’t that kind f Republican and, remarkably, she listened to me. Thank god, allah, Buddha or whomever. Then came Trump who turned her into a full fledged, MSNBC watching Democrat. It was like she suddenly saw the Republicans for what they were in the orange light of nightmare. She voted for Clinton in 2016 and this year voted in her very first Democratic primary. Now she turned in 2016 but I have family in Michigan and Wisconsin that tell similar stories of people who voted for him planning to vote for virtually anyone else. It’s no fait accompli, but I truly believe he can be beaten. It’s a five state race, MI, WI and PA where a total of 167,000 votes gave him the Presidency plus AZ and FL, both states where his negatives far outweigh his positives. Anything can happen but I no longer have the feeling I had a year ago that he couldn’t be beaten. His cruelty has reached new limits and the economy is faltering. Wait until people get their credit card bills at Christmas and realize they’re paying for his absurd trade war. That’s not even touching on the increasingly hostile farmers who have been ridiculed by the Agriculture Secretary for “whining”, or nervous finance sector. He can be beaten and we have to beat him or we’re toast. I’m going to be cautiously optimistic and if I’m healthy enough I will be campaigning for whatever Democrat in Michigan and/or Wisconsin next fall. Even my mom, who plans to be living in Florida by then, says she’ll be volunteering there.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by ramonz »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:the orange light of nightmare.
Man, that is good TC. Made me chuckle at first, as I've always looked at the orange-y ness of all this as a way to (nervously) laugh at how absurd things have gotten. But the way you wrote those simple 5 words kind of sent a shiver down my spine when I read them again.

Let's hope the oldsters among us, folks like your mother and my parents, can lead us out of all this. To varying degrees, and perhaps belatedly, a not-inconsequential number of them have seen the light. That's a good sign.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Congratulations Poland! Fifty years ago today you, yes you fun loving Poles, were invaded by Nazis! Hooray! You were forced to live in slums and sent to concentration camps where you often died. So yeah, congratulations!

Farce. Our country is farce
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Congratulations Poland! Fifty years ago today you, yes you fun loving Poles, were invaded by Nazis! Hooray! You were forced to live in slums and sent to concentration camps where you often died. So yeah, congratulations!

Farce. Our country is farce
So true!

Image

though, not

Image
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Congratulations Poland! Fifty years ago today you, yes you fun loving Poles, were invaded by Nazis! Hooray! You were forced to live in slums and sent to concentration camps where you often died. So yeah, congratulations!

Farce. Our country is farce
Let's tread carefully here.

For every courageous and patriotic member of the Polish cavalry who died heroically literally trying to stop a tank w/ a horse and a sword, there was a Pole who welcomed the Nazis and participated or acquiesced in their crimes. That doesn't excuse Trump's comments in any way, but the history is what it is.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

The generation gap at work: I often have great difficulty understanding the message in pictorial posts/texts and this one is no exception, wwcd. I don't get what you're saying about Admiral Rice.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

beantownbubba wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Congratulations Poland! Fifty years ago today you, yes you fun loving Poles, were invaded by Nazis! Hooray! You were forced to live in slums and sent to concentration camps where you often died. So yeah, congratulations!

Farce. Our country is farce
Let's tread carefully here.

For every courageous and patriotic member of the Polish cavalry who died heroically literally trying to stop a tank w/ a horse and a sword, there was a Pole who welcomed the Nazis and participated or acquiesced in their crimes. That doesn't excuse Trump's comments in any way, but the history is what it is.
Fair point but congratulating a country for being invaded is some sicko bastard shit.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:congratulating a country for being invaded is some sicko bastard shit.
Agreed:
beantownbubba wrote:That doesn't excuse Trump's comments in any way,
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

We are all riding the Trump rollercoaster of an outrage per minute, so it's interesting when one sticks w/ you for more than a day or 2.

The order deporting kids and families in this country for medical treatment is one of those for me. There's no way around it: This is just barbaric, with no justification. I've been glad to read that there's been at least some push back on this (I don't watch her but I read that Rachel Maddow has really taken this on) but there's no excuse for a mere partial, apparently case by case rollback of this inhumane, and I will repeat, barbaric policy. What the hell has happened to our country?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

beantownbubba wrote:We are all riding the Trump rollercoaster of an outrage per minute, so it's interesting when one sticks w/ you for more than a day or 2.

The order deporting kids and families in this country for medical treatment is one of those for me. There's no way around it: This is just barbaric, with no justification. I've been glad to read that there's been at least some push back on this (I don't watch her but I read that Rachel Maddow has really taken this on) but there's no excuse for a mere partial, apparently case by case rollback of this inhumane, and I will repeat, barbaric policy. What the hell has happened to our country?
I am not trying to normalize or become numb to the inhumane, heartless policies, executive orders and rhetoric of the Trump administration. However, the only thing this administration cares about is scoring political points with their base in an effort to remain in power and continue to line the pockets of their wealthy compadres and themselves. Human beings are simply pawns in the political chess match. Every policy decision, executive order, tweet and statement is designed to achieve those ends. And if you really start to think about what that means, you should be scared as hell.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

cortez the killer wrote:
beantownbubba wrote:We are all riding the Trump rollercoaster of an outrage per minute, so it's interesting when one sticks w/ you for more than a day or 2.

The order deporting kids and families in this country for medical treatment is one of those for me. There's no way around it: This is just barbaric, with no justification. I've been glad to read that there's been at least some push back on this (I don't watch her but I read that Rachel Maddow has really taken this on) but there's no excuse for a mere partial, apparently case by case rollback of this inhumane, and I will repeat, barbaric policy. What the hell has happened to our country?
I am not trying to normalize or become numb to the inhumane, heartless policies, executive orders and rhetoric of the Trump administration. However, the only thing this administration cares about is scoring political points with their base in an effort to remain in power and continue to line the pockets of their wealthy compadres and themselves. Human beings are simply pawns in the political chess match. Every policy decision, executive order, tweet and statement is designed to achieve those ends. And if you really start to think about what that means, you should be scared as hell.
I completely agree, which is part of why I feel like this one is such an outlier. Who is the constituency for this? Are Trumpists clamoring for the deportation of kids receiving medical treatment? Does anyone, from Trump & Miller down to the saddest sack white nationalist in his parents' basement understand that virtually all of those subject to this order (I think it's all, but I'm just not sure) are here legally??? Even on their own awful terms I don't get this one. There must be at least a few stereotypical Trump supporters who are appalled at the notion of taking kids off livesaving treatment and sending them back to countries where they are certain to die even though they're here legally. Ummmm, mustn't there be?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

beantownbubba wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Congratulations Poland! Fifty years ago today you, yes you fun loving Poles, were invaded by Nazis! Hooray! You were forced to live in slums and sent to concentration camps where you often died. So yeah, congratulations!

Farce. Our country is farce
Let's tread carefully here.

For every courageous and patriotic member of the Polish cavalry who died heroically literally trying to stop a tank w/ a horse and a sword, there was a Pole who welcomed the Nazis and participated or acquiesced in their crimes. That doesn't excuse Trump's comments in any way, but the history is what it is.
In addition to the soldiers, I should also mention members of the Polish Resistance and the families, mostly farmers, who hid Jews at great personal risk, sometimes for years.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Slipkid42 »

Things I hate:
The lack of term limits for Congress - Whatever benefits experience may bring doesn't outweigh the never-ending drivel that most of them spew.
The 2-Party system - The gridlock only gets broken when one Party gets pissed enough to vote out the other Party & then that Party eventually gets pissed enough to vote out that Party & on & on.
The Electoral College - Not sure what purpose it has, don't care. It needs to go.
The way SCJOTUS are chosen - Don't really have a better solution; but if they pander to the Party that appointed them, then it kinda defeats the purpose.
Lifetime SCJOTUS - 16 years is the average & more than enough time to leave your mark. Cap it at that. Don't wait for the drool to run down your chin.
Religion - No offense but god is an evil bastard.
Racism - It will never end. It will never go away.
Guns - When it's easier to buy a fucking machine-gun than it is to score a bag of weed then something's fucking wrong.
Daylight Savings Time - Let's just spring forward & stay there.
Trump - Never thought I'd look back fondly on the days of W, but here the fuck I am.

Things I love:
The smile on a baby's face - That's about it. My tiny light is growing dimmer.
A thousand clusterfucks will not kill my tiny light

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

beantownbubba wrote:The generation gap at work: I often have great difficulty understanding the message in pictorial posts/texts and this one is no exception, wwcd. I don't get what you're saying about Admiral Rice.
TC said “50 years ago....”, it was actually 80 years ago
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

beantownbubba wrote:
cortez the killer wrote:
beantownbubba wrote:We are all riding the Trump rollercoaster of an outrage per minute, so it's interesting when one sticks w/ you for more than a day or 2.

The order deporting kids and families in this country for medical treatment is one of those for me. There's no way around it: This is just barbaric, with no justification. I've been glad to read that there's been at least some push back on this (I don't watch her but I read that Rachel Maddow has really taken this on) but there's no excuse for a mere partial, apparently case by case rollback of this inhumane, and I will repeat, barbaric policy. What the hell has happened to our country?
I am not trying to normalize or become numb to the inhumane, heartless policies, executive orders and rhetoric of the Trump administration. However, the only thing this administration cares about is scoring political points with their base in an effort to remain in power and continue to line the pockets of their wealthy compadres and themselves. Human beings are simply pawns in the political chess match. Every policy decision, executive order, tweet and statement is designed to achieve those ends. And if you really start to think about what that means, you should be scared as hell.
I completely agree, which is part of why I feel like this one is such an outlier. Who is the constituency for this? Are Trumpists clamoring for the deportation of kids receiving medical treatment? Does anyone, from Trump & Miller down to the saddest sack white nationalist in his parents' basement understand that virtually all of those subject to this order (I think it's all, but I'm just not sure) are here legally??? Even on their own awful terms I don't get this one. There must be at least a few stereotypical Trump supporters who are appalled at the notion of taking kids off livesaving treatment and sending them back to countries where they are certain to die even though they're here legally. Ummmm, mustn't there be?
The hardest of hard line approaches to those damn immigrants and removing those welfare, resource-suckers, whom, let's face it, aren't real Americans in the first place, from the system. Those are some truest of true opinions for you there, bubsie.

Recycled ideas/theories from the past with immigrants playing the new role of "others" and the policies themselves having little more sting than normal, because Trump is TOUGH, TOUGH, TOUGH!
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Clams »

Slipkid42 wrote: My tiny light is growing dimmer.
Nah, you just need to point that light in the right direction. Drown out the noise and focus on the love.
Everyone needs a friend, everyone needs a fuck

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

Clams wrote:
Slipkid42 wrote: My tiny light is growing dimmer.
Nah, you just need to point that light in the right direction. Drown out the noise and focus on the love.
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Slipkid42 »

cortez the killer wrote:
Clams wrote:
Slipkid42 wrote: My tiny light is growing dimmer.
Nah, you just need to point that light in the right direction. Drown out the noise and focus on the love.
cortez - Been sorta afraid to listen to that one. It was beautiful. Can't say I'm uplifted, but no worse for wear.

Clams - I would need to be in a coma to drown out this noise & every beat of my heart can not fix all that is broken.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Clams »

Slipkid42 wrote: Clams - I would need to be in a coma to drown out this noise & every beat of my heart can not fix all that is broken.
I know you've had a brutal year, slip. You were one of the first folks I met thru this board, back when you sold me some extra tickets to a 930 Club show back in the day. Hang in there man. Better times will come.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Slipkid42 wrote:Things I love:
The smile on a baby's face - That's about it. My tiny light is growing dimmer.
You lie like a rug, slip. To wit:

Audrey
heAthens, at least some, maybe more
DBT
poetry, yours
poetry, others
lifelong friends
dogs, many
mediocre health (better than bad)

I could go on...
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Slipkid42 wrote:The lack of term limits for Congress - Whatever benefits experience may bring doesn't outweigh the never-ending drivel that most of them spew.
I have agonized over this for a long, long time. I've generally been against term limits on the theory that (a) even w/ the advantages of incumbency voters can, if so moved, vote the bastards out: and (b) term limited congresspeople will have no choice but to cede even more power, authority and influence to the permanent govt including career staffers, lobbyists and executive branch experts. For the moment I'd still prefer fixes that reduce the advantages of incumbency, but I admit I'm teetering. What goes on right now is disgraceful.
Slipkid42 wrote:The 2-Party system - The gridlock only gets broken when one Party gets pissed enough to vote out the other Party & then that Party eventually gets pissed enough to vote out that Party & on & on.
It's conceivable that the 2 parties could go back to containing w/in them essentially the kinds of coalitions that parliamentary systems create w/ multiple parties. This seems more doubtful by the day so I agree with you.
Slipkid42 wrote:The Electoral College - Not sure what purpose it has, don't care. It needs to go.
This is probably right although I confess to not fully understanding all the ramifications. More important to me is not going to proportional representation for the Senate (similar to abolishing the electoral college in the context of the number of senators per state). There are real problems w/ the 2 per state approach but I'm virtually certain that the law of unintended consequences would wreak havoc if unleashed on the Senate.
Slipkid42 wrote:The way SCJOTUS are chosen - Don't really have a better solution; but if they pander to the Party that appointed them, then it kinda defeats the purpose.
It is indeed a joke w/ this crazy idea that prospective justices can't be questioned on matters they may have to rule on, potential justices pretending to not have opinions on matters that would concern any sentient citizen and the disqualification fights over stupid stuff like inhaling. Allegations of sexual violence are of course a different category but even there we need a better system that has more process, more fairness and less chaos.
Slipkid42 wrote:Lifetime SCJOTUS - 16 years is the average & more than enough time to leave your mark. Cap it at that. Don't wait for the drool to run down your chin.
I might even go for a shorter period like 12 years, equal to 3 presidential terms, but term limits here are very necessary and should be combined w/ a forced retirement age at somewhere around 75; the 2 provisions between them will have a lot of positive consequences and among them is that they will end age as a consideration for nomination and approval (no need for really young justices because they can still only serve the one term and no window for compromise appointments who it is assumed will only serve a few years and end up lasting 20 or more to everyone's surprise. Theoretically the 2 measures combined should push the age of nominees up but to individuals still w/in their intellectual prime (I would guess late 40's to early 60's).
Slipkid42 wrote:Daylight Savings Time - Let's just spring forward & stay there.
I have to agree this is right but if it happens I will miss the anticipation and energy jolt I get from the first few days of daylight savings time. I might even miss the shorter days right around Xmas, which are sort of atmospheric.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

cortez the killer wrote:The hardest of hard line approaches to those damn immigrants and removing those welfare, resource-suckers, whom, let's face it, aren't real Americans in the first place, from the system. Those are some truest of true opinions for you there, bubsie.

Recycled ideas/theories from the past with immigrants playing the new role of "others" and the policies themselves having little more sting than normal, because Trump is TOUGH, TOUGH, TOUGH!
You're right. I should not expect nuanced thought and the recognition of subtleties from the folks we're talking about. OTOH, and I have to say that even at this minute it surprises me, I really did think that we did have a lowest common denominator across all demographics and most countries around concern for children. But now even pedophiles get a pass if they're powerful enough and babies separated from their parents and housed in cages are not enough to spark outrage, so why should I expect a unified, horrified response to gratuitously sending children to their deaths?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Cross posted from the books thread:

For the token non-fiction summer read we have Michael Tomasky's If We Can Keep It. Another surprise because I've never felt too much in any direction about Tomasky's writing when I've come across it (mostly in the NYT, occasionally elsewhere, i think). This book won't change your world but I suspect you'll learn something from it and it will give you at least some ammunition to think about old problems in fresher ways. It is excellent on the history of parties ("factions") and polarization in American politics. His thesis is that the era of calm and cooperation that so many of us grew up with from the end of WWII into the late 60's or early 70's is very much the aberration and it is far more typical for our politics to be fraught and dirty. Just understanding this is helpful and helps one to stop thinking about some nostalgic past that we must get back to. His thoughts on gerrymandering, winner take all single district voting for Congress and the electoral college include some fresh perspectives including the important idea that for the most part these apparently institutional factors are in fact not inevitable at all and can be changed quite easily for the most part (i.e. short of by Constitutional amendment). He also helpfully reminds us that politics reflects the culture not the other way around, so it's not just our political system that's broken. It's fairly short and written in plain English so it's a pretty breezy read as these things go and I recommend it.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Iowan »

One thing that shouldn't be discounted or forgotten when considering the level of cruelty that Trump supporters are rolling with:

Most of them don't believe any report about the terrible shit this administration is doing. They believe that any and all media (now even Fox News) have a bias and are either misrepresenting these scenarios or outright lying about them. In their minds they aren't supporting evil, because they only believe what Dear Leader tells them and Dear Leader tells them everything is swell. They simply don't believe in reality any more.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Iowan wrote:One thing that shouldn't be discounted or forgotten when considering the level of cruelty that Trump supporters are rolling with:

Most of them don't believe any report about the terrible shit this administration is doing. They believe that any and all media (now even Fox News) have a bias and are either misrepresenting these scenarios or outright lying about them. In their minds they aren't supporting evil, because they only believe what Dear Leader tells them and Dear Leader tells them everything is swell. They simply don't believe in reality any more.
Considering the state of reality, that's not a totally irrational decision.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Clams »

beantownbubba wrote:
Slipkid42 wrote:Things I love:
The smile on a baby's face - That's about it. My tiny light is growing dimmer.
You lie like a rug, slip. To wit:

Audrey
heAthens, at least some, maybe more
DBT
poetry, yours
poetry, others
lifelong friends
dogs, many
mediocre health (better than bad)

I could go on...
Great work bubba but you forgot BOC Secret Treaties
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Clams wrote:
beantownbubba wrote:
Slipkid42 wrote:Things I love:
The smile on a baby's face - That's about it. My tiny light is growing dimmer.
You lie like a rug, slip. To wit:

Audrey
heAthens, at least some, maybe more
DBT
poetry, yours
poetry, others
lifelong friends
dogs, many
mediocre health (better than bad)

I could go on...
Great work bubba but you forgot BOC Secret Treaties
You are right, but you know who I blame for that.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Flea »

Slipkid42 wrote:Things I hate:
The lack of term limits for Congress - Whatever benefits experience may bring doesn't outweigh the never-ending drivel that most of them spew.
The 2-Party system - The gridlock only gets broken when one Party gets pissed enough to vote out the other Party & then that Party eventually gets pissed enough to vote out that Party & on & on.
The Electoral College - Not sure what purpose it has, don't care. It needs to go.
The way SCJOTUS are chosen - Don't really have a better solution; but if they pander to the Party that appointed them, then it kinda defeats the purpose.
Lifetime SCJOTUS - 16 years is the average & more than enough time to leave your mark. Cap it at that. Don't wait for the drool to run down your chin.
Religion - No offense but god is an evil bastard.
Racism - It will never end. It will never go away.
Guns - When it's easier to buy a fucking machine-gun than it is to score a bag of weed then something's fucking wrong.
Daylight Savings Time - Let's just spring forward & stay there.
Trump - Never thought I'd look back fondly on the days of W, but here the fuck I am.

Things I love:
The smile on a baby's face - That's about it. My tiny light is growing dimmer.
Randy For President 2020
Now it's dark.

John A Arkansawyer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

A brief pictorial guide to popularity of the UK's Conservative government over the last two years:

Image
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

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Slipkid42
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Location: Northern Neck of the Dirty South

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Slipkid42 »

Clams wrote:
beantownbubba wrote:
Slipkid42 wrote:Things I love:
The smile on a baby's face - That's about it. My tiny light is growing dimmer.
You lie like a rug, slip. To wit:

Audrey
heAthens, at least some, maybe more
DBT
poetry, yours
poetry, others
lifelong friends
dogs, many
mediocre health (better than bad)

I could go on...
Great work bubba but you forgot BOC Secret Treaties
Thanks guys. I do have much to be grateful for.
A thousand clusterfucks will not kill my tiny light

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