The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

[beantownbubba]

Georgia on my mind:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... MzgwMjY0S0

Those are some big numbers and real lives.

I wonder if Homecoming will be relocated as well?

Unless something changes dramatically, the answer is no. Big discussion on this topic on the DBT FB page a few wks ago.

[pearlbeer]

Georgia on my mind:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... MzgwMjY0S0

Those are some big numbers and real lives.

I wonder if Homecoming will be relocated as well?

Unless something changes dramatically, the answer is no. Big discussion on this topic on the DBT FB page a few wks ago.

Really? I was just making a joke. I no longer Facebook (and don't miss it). I'm sure that was a sh*t show of a thread. But you know, Sh*t shows count.
That said....Portland would be a cool destination for Homecoming....

[Cole Younger]

Ok bubba,

1. Only a very specific type of carpetbagger. The folks who move here and just act like decent people I have no problem with whether I have anything in common with them or not. It's the assholes who are moving down here openly stating that they are on a mission to straighten us out that I don't want.

2. Yeah, pretty much. I still love a bunch of you but, yeah. I personally don't feel inferior to anyone anywhere. But that doesn't mean I want a rationn of their smug bullshit.

3. Fair enough. But I think if a bunch of guys like me started moving from Georgia and Alabama and South Carolina etc and in big waves and showed up in places like say Portland, and talked loudly about all the "little candy ass, snowflake puss boys" or whatever, and talked about how we were going take it and places like back from "these damn America hatin commies" those people there would feel pretty much like I do about the Hollywood types and folks of their ilk coming down here.

4. You're on. I'll bring a jug of homemade likker to Homecoming next year.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

Georgia on my mind:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... MzgwMjY0S0

Those are some big numbers and real lives.

I wonder if Homecoming will be relocated as well?

Just move it to Alabama

[beantownbubba]

Ok bubba,

1. Only a very specific type of carpetbagger. The folks who move here and just act like decent people I have no problem with whether I have anything in common with them or not. It's the assholes who are moving down here openly stating that they are on a mission to straighten us out that I don't want. UNDERSTANDABLE

2. Yeah, pretty much. I still love a bunch of you but, yeah. I personally don't feel inferior to anyone anywhere. But that doesn't mean I want a rationn of their smug bullshit. i OFTEN FEEL THE SAME WAY SO I CAN'T EXACTLY BLAME YOU FOR FEELING THAT WAY LOL

3. Fair enough. But I think if a bunch of guys like me started moving from Georgia and Alabama and South Carolina etc and in big waves and showed up in places like say Portland, and talked loudly about all the "little candy ass, snowflake puss boys" or whatever, and talked about how we were going take it and places like back from "these damn America hatin commies" those people there would feel pretty much like I do about the Hollywood types and folks of their ilk coming down here. I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THIS BUT AS BEFORE, I REALLY DON'T GET THE ISSUE HERE SO I'M NOT GONNA COMMENT

4. You're on. I'll bring a jug of homemade likker to Homecoming next year.

EXCELLENT! LOOKING FORWARD TO IT ALREADY.

[John A Arkansawyer]

1. Only a very specific type of carpetbagger. The folks who move here and just act like decent people I have no problem with whether I have anything in common with them or not. It's the assholes who are moving down here openly stating that they are on a mission to straighten us out that I don't want.

Those folks bother me, too--especially when they bring enough money to have their way with us--but I'm honestly more unhappy with the folks who move here to be like the local assholes. If you're going to move across the country and fuck up where I live, at least bring something new to the table. And not, for god's sakes, kale, as those who'd like to move here and straighten me out so often do.

[Cole Younger]

1. Only a very specific type of carpetbagger. The folks who move here and just act like decent people I have no problem with whether I have anything in common with them or not. It's the assholes who are moving down here openly stating that they are on a mission to straighten us out that I don't want.

Those folks bother me, too--especially when they bring enough money to have their way with us--but I'm honestly more unhappy with the folks who move here to be like the local assholes. If you're going to move across the country and fuck up where I live, at least bring something new to the table. And not, for god's sakes, kale, as those who'd like to move here and straighten me out so often do.

Kale and and crappy craft beer that nobody actually likes.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

1. Only a very specific type of carpetbagger. The folks who move here and just act like decent people I have no problem with whether I have anything in common with them or not. It's the assholes who are moving down here openly stating that they are on a mission to straighten us out that I don't want.

Those folks bother me, too--especially when they bring enough money to have their way with us--but I'm honestly more unhappy with the folks who move here to be like the local assholes. If you're going to move across the country and fuck up where I live, at least bring something new to the table. And not, for god's sakes, kale, as those who'd like to move here and straighten me out so often do.

Kale and and crappy craft beer that nobody actually likes.

Are you saying that craft beer is inherently crappy? Just asking for a clarification

[PonyGirl]

Jason Isbell once said that, to him, the friction between southerners and northerners seems more rooted in issues between country people and city people. I agree with him on this.

I once was involved in a very general chat about DBT and Mike Cooley’s lyrics came up. We all know and agree that he’s a talented, highly intelligent and stylish lyricist. So this person said to me, “He must have been so lonely. His early years must have been so tough.” I have never read anything remotely close to that into his lyrics, so I was like, “What? Really? Why would you say that?” And he said, “…because Cooley is so smart. Don’t you think he’s smart?” and I was like, “Sure, I think he’s plenty smart, but I still don’t understand what you’re getting at.” And the guy said, “Well he just wouldn’t have had any intellectual equals growing up there…” And I was like, “Oh…because you think all those country people are stupid…” And then I changed the subject. I am very fond of the person I was speaking with and I didn’t feel like having a fight. But I can tell you, internally, I was in a seething fucking rage.

I look and sound pure city and to be fair, I am pretty urban, but I was raised in the country, right by the Appalachian mountains, actually, which run into Quebec (Jeesum Crow, call me a Hillbilly too). My family aren’t really country people, but they are busy people, who weren’t always around, so I spent a lot of time being cared for by a couple of older, semi retired farmers… who were VERY FUCKING SMART as were a great many of the locals. Farming is science. Agricultural science is as valid a science as anything one would learn at MIT, in fact, I know of at least one Ivy League school that has an Ag program. Growing crops and breeding animals effectively, not to mention running it all as a business, requires an infinite amount of education and knowledge, whether you learn it in a classroom or whether you learn it from the experience of growing up on the farm. And not only were these people highly intelligent, they were hysterically funny. When your livelihood depends on such factors as the weather or the behaviour of livestock, you develop a very sophisticated grasp of irony. They also taught me a ton about really good music.

My father is an International Trade Litigator who has lived all over the world and who speaks 5 languages, but he can barely screw in a lightbulb or mow the lawn. When we lived in North Hatley, we spent a lot of time with farmers and tradespeople. If you were to ask my Dad, which is smarter, a farmer or a lawyer, he would say that it would depend on which farmer and which lawyer and what the context is. But I guarantee you, in many or even most instances, he would say that the farmer is the answer to that question.

That’s what I should have said when that conversation started, but it took me like 3 years to cool down. To assume that country people are less intelligent than city people is incorrect and blatantly prejudicial. Being on the receiving end of that kind of condescension and ignorance is painful and infuriating.

I’m from so far up north as to be Canadian and I acknowledge that cultural differences definitely exist between the two areas. Am I arrogant, condescending, snobbish and way less smart than I think I am (paraphrasing Bubba)? Definitely, but I try to be as respectful as possible of other cultures both at home and when I travel. But not everyone is. Most southerners who come up here are great. But I’ve met a few who could stand to learn to leave their misogyny at home. We don’t use the word “pussy” here, to describe the female population, who we like to consider as actual human beings, so when we hear people talk that way, it stings. Up here, we consider that kind of language to be on par with certain unsayable, hate-based, racial epithets. I think it’s safe to say that if you don’t want people from your part of the world to be perceived as buffoons, don’t travel to other parts of the world and behave like one.

One of those foulmouthed guys also liked to bluster about how important fatherhood was to him. I remember thinking, “Spectacular. Well the first time someone refers to your daughter as a vagina, you’ll only have yourself to thank for it.”

Ignorant people show up places and behave ignorantly. Sometimes you tolerate it because you really like and enjoy a lot of their other qualities and sometimes you just want them to go back home. People are complex. Rarely is anyone all good or all bad. Actual efforts towards empathy, understanding and compassion are probably the best way to combat this stuff. It’s hard for me because I’m sensitive, with a bad temper and pretty caustic comeback. I’m trying to be smarter about stuff I say, but it sure isn’t always easy and I fail at restraint regularly. The zingy comeback is so, so satisfying too, but long term damage can be caused with these and I have to be mindful of this.

When I think of the Heartbeat Bills being passed in certain states, I have a physical reaction. My heart drops and I start to shake. I don’t even need to engage my brain to know how I feel about them, but when I do start thinking, words like “evil” come to mind. I can’t really see how they can represent anything more than a manifestation of hatred towards women and a draconian method created for the purposes of controlling women, not to mention an attack on the poor; an initiative partially created to perpetuate the cycle of poverty, to keep people down so the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. One can complain about how people try to impose their values on one, but choice is the literal opposite of that, so one would think that it would be welcomed by those who claim to be against too much government interference and who promote the American concept of freedom. This eradication of choice is so dangerous. Where will this imposition stop? Historically this kind of thing hasn’t stopped, but has picked up momentum until those who oppose it step up and do something to stop it. To me, famous and powerful actors and film executives are those people right now, so I support them and I am grateful to them for taking a stand. And to be sure, moving productions out of the state will involve the loss of profits for those production companies who do move and the real victims will be the people who lose their jobs. But why would a politician who’s happy to ruin some lives by criminalizing abortion care about the collateral damage of ruining a few more lives?

We have a pretty weak currency and we also offer tax breaks to production cos, so it’s likely more than a few Canadians will benefit from this. We’ve got kale, craft beer and reproductive choice and we’ll be happy to enjoy the new added value that may come with them, but we’ll feel shitty that it had to come at the expense of others.

Stay tuned for my next treatise entitled, “Do Southerners Really Tell Better Jokes? A Canadian Weighs in.”

[Cole Younger]

No, WWCD. I enjoy some of it. But there is something g inherently ridiculous to me about the scene.

[Cole Younger]

Pony Girl, I want to clarify something, the example I used when responding to bubba about southern boys moving somewhere they would generally be out of place and acting badly was my way of illustrating what it is I have a problem with going on here. It was just an inversion of what I see. He said he didn't really understand what it was I have an issue with. So I flipped it around. I also used some hyperbole in my example.

I did use the words "guys like me" which absolutely makes for some confusion. Two important facts here. First, bubba and I know each other personally. He knows what I look like, how thick my accent is etc. Second, I meant southern country boys of conservative political persuasion (pretty redundant). And I guess there is a third element here, since bubba knows me, he knows I don't mean me or that I would act that way.

I dont claim to always word things artfully but I know for a fact that I observe good manors and treat women with respect. Nothing in that scenario referenced women btw. Am I guilty of being a "buffoon" as you say? Certainly. Sometimes. But I would offer the same advice you gave me to the people who move here. That was my entire point. I'm not touching the abortion issue here. I've done so in the past so it's here somewhere.

Sorry for the confusion. The first few paragraphs of what you wrote? Yeah I agree.

[John A Arkansawyer]

We’ve got kale, craft beer and reproductive choice.

Two out of three ain't bad.

[beantownbubba]

I am reminded of the time that I was in a meeting where 2 parties were negotiating a potentially big deal. I was w/ the Massachusetts contingent and the other company was from Georgia. Of the Georgia group, about half had the more homogenized less noticeable accent that has affected all regions in recent decades and the other half had the more noticeable or traditional real Southern drawl. A lawyer for the GA group happened to have a thick accent and at one point he says, "well I'm just a little ole country lawyer from Georgia..." Unfortunately for him that was immediately understood by everyone on the MA side of the table to be a warning that this guy was a person to be reckoned with.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

I am reminded of the time that I was in a meeting where 2 parties were negotiating a potentially big deal. I was w/ the Massachusetts contingent and the other company was from Georgia. Of the Georgia group, about half had the more homogenized less noticeable accent that has affected all regions in recent decades and the other half had the more noticeable or traditional real Southern drawl. A lawyer for the GA group happened to have a thick accent and at one point he says, "well I'm just a little ole country lawyer from Georgia..." Unfortunately for him that was immediately understood by everyone on the MA side of the table to be a warning that this guy was a person to be reckoned with.

It was Matlock, wasn’t it?

[Cole Younger]

I am reminded of the time that I was in a meeting where 2 parties were negotiating a potentially big deal. I was w/ the Massachusetts contingent and the other company was from Georgia. Of the Georgia group, about half had the more homogenized less noticeable accent that has affected all regions in recent decades and the other half had the more noticeable or traditional real Southern drawl. A lawyer for the GA group happened to have a thick accent and at one point he says, "well I'm just a little ole country lawyer from Georgia..." Unfortunately for him that was immediately understood by everyone on the MA side of the table to be a warning that this guy was a person to be reckoned with.

It was Matlock, wasn’t it?

[Cole Younger]

I am reminded of the time that I was in a meeting where 2 parties were negotiating a potentially big deal. I was w/ the Massachusetts contingent and the other company was from Georgia. Of the Georgia group, about half had the more homogenized less noticeable accent that has affected all regions in recent decades and the other half had the more noticeable or traditional real Southern drawl. A lawyer for the GA group happened to have a thick accent and at one point he says, "well I'm just a little ole country lawyer from Georgia..." Unfortunately for him that was immediately understood by everyone on the MA side of the table to be a warning that this guy was a person to be reckoned with.

Yeah a buddy of mine who is a state trooper is going in for the kill when he has a drunk out of stater pulled over and starts the "Now I'm just a dumb old country bumpkin" routine.

[Zip City]

Defining oneself by some arbitrarily drawn borders created a few hundred years ago seems a poor way to go through life. It’s the root of all the “us vs them” bullshit that has turned this country into a poor excuse for civilization.

[Cole Younger]

Defining oneself by some arbitrarily drawn borders created a few hundred years ago seems a poor way to go through life. It’s the root of all the “us vs them” bullshit that has turned this country into a poor excuse for civilization.

Lots of people saying things like that but nobody ever leaves.

[beantownbubba]

Defining oneself by some arbitrarily drawn borders created a few hundred years ago seems a poor way to go through life. It’s the root of all the “us vs them” bullshit that has turned this country into a poor excuse for civilization.

I'll grant you that group or tribal identity (including but not limited to geographically based identity) has caused plenty of suffering and just about all the wars in history, it's also true that a healthy sense of self is partly based on that identity and the rootedness, safety/comfort and confidence that comes from that. Just for one coincidental but recent and on point example, there's this (emphasis added):

"...but mostly i think that I may not be from New England (or Boston) but they're not from Brooklyn, so I got far the better of that deal."

[John A Arkansawyer]

The more I read it, the more I think it really is the best novel I've ever read:

“These are your friends. Hank, your associates and neighbors. Floyd tells me that you served in Korea.” Draeger’s voice was placid...“Do you ever think that the same loyalty that your country expected of you overseas could be expected of you here at home? Loyalty to friends and neighbors when they are being threatened by a foreign foe? Loyalty to—?”

“Loyalty, for the chrissake . . . loyalty?”

“That’s right. Hank. I think you know what I’m talking about.” The soothing patience of the voice was almost mesmerizing. “I’m speaking of the basic loyalty, the true patriotism, the selfless, open-hearted, humane concern that you always find welling up from someplace within you — a concern you might have almost forgotten — when you see a fellow human being in need of your help....”

“Listen...listen to me. Mister.” Hank’s voice was taut. He pushed past Evenwrite and held his lantern close to Draeger’s neat-featured face. “I’m just as concerned as the next guy, just as loyal. If we was to get into it with Russia I’d fight for us right down to the wire. And if Oregon was to get into it with California I’d fight for Oregon. But if somebody — Biggy Newton or the Woodsworker’s Union or anybody— gets into it with me, then I’m for me. When the chips are down, I’m my own patriot. I don’t give a goddam the other guy is my own brother wavin’ the American flag and singing the friggin’ ‘Star Spangled Banner’!”

[Cole Younger]

The more I read it, the more I think it really is the best novel I've ever read:

“These are your friends. Hank, your associates and neighbors. Floyd tells me that you served in Korea.” Draeger’s voice was placid...“Do you ever think that the same loyalty that your country expected of you overseas could be expected of you here at home? Loyalty to friends and neighbors when they are being threatened by a foreign foe? Loyalty to—?”

“Loyalty, for the chrissake . . . loyalty?”

“That’s right. Hank. I think you know what I’m talking about.” The soothing patience of the voice was almost mesmerizing. “I’m speaking of the basic loyalty, the true patriotism, the selfless, open-hearted, humane concern that you always find welling up from someplace within you — a concern you might have almost forgotten — when you see a fellow human being in need of your help....”

“Listen...listen to me. Mister.” Hank’s voice was taut. He pushed past Evenwrite and held his lantern close to Draeger’s neat-featured face. “I’m just as concerned as the next guy, just as loyal. If we was to get into it with Russia I’d fight for us right down to the wire. And if Oregon was to get into it with California I’d fight for Oregon. But if somebody — Biggy Newton or the Woodsworker’s Union or anybody— gets into it with me, then I’m for me. When the chips are down, I’m my own patriot. I don’t give a goddam the other guy is my own brother wavin’ the American flag and singing the friggin’ ‘Star Spangled Banner’!”

I don't know anything about the context but that last part made me laugh.

[Zip City]

Defining oneself by some arbitrarily drawn borders created a few hundred years ago seems a poor way to go through life. It’s the root of all the “us vs them” bullshit that has turned this country into a poor excuse for y.

Lots of people saying things like that but nobody ever leaves.

Yes, comfort and fear are a nice recipe for unwillingness to move and see the state/country/world. It’s a convenient excuse to never have to have your notions challenged or interact with “others”.

I’m thankful everyday that I moved a lot as a kid and experienced many places and many people.

[John A Arkansawyer]

The more I read it, the more I think it really is the best novel I've ever read:

“These are your friends. Hank, your associates and neighbors. Floyd tells me that you served in Korea.” Draeger’s voice was placid...“Do you ever think that the same loyalty that your country expected of you overseas could be expected of you here at home? Loyalty to friends and neighbors when they are being threatened by a foreign foe? Loyalty to—?”

“Loyalty, for the chrissake . . . loyalty?”

“That’s right. Hank. I think you know what I’m talking about.” The soothing patience of the voice was almost mesmerizing. “I’m speaking of the basic loyalty, the true patriotism, the selfless, open-hearted, humane concern that you always find welling up from someplace within you — a concern you might have almost forgotten — when you see a fellow human being in need of your help....”

“Listen...listen to me. Mister.” Hank’s voice was taut. He pushed past Evenwrite and held his lantern close to Draeger’s neat-featured face. “I’m just as concerned as the next guy, just as loyal. If we was to get into it with Russia I’d fight for us right down to the wire. And if Oregon was to get into it with California I’d fight for Oregon. But if somebody — Biggy Newton or the Woodsworker’s Union or anybody— gets into it with me, then I’m for me. When the chips are down, I’m my own patriot. I don’t give a goddam the other guy is my own brother wavin’ the American flag and singing the friggin’ ‘Star Spangled Banner’!”

I don't know anything about the context but that last part made me laugh.

That thought occurred to me as i pasted it up. You gotta read this book, which is what i tell everyone. They did a decent job scanning and OCR'ing it, if you want to see if you have a taste for it. It's a good but not perfect job. For instance, I wonder whether this is an actual reference to Mt. Hood, a prediction that Patterson was going to move to Oregon, or an OCR failure:

Flat as a rain-textured street even during Hood season because of a channel so deep and a bed so smooth: no shallows to set up buckwater rapids, no rocks to rile the surface . . . nothing to indicate movement except the swirling clots of yellow foam skimming seaward with the wind, and the thrusting groves of flooded bam, bent taut and trembling by the pull of silent, dark momentum.

And i can answer my own question, because there's a scanned copy of the book as well: It says "flood season", not "Hood season". O sweet mystery of life!

Anyway, I love this book unreasonably: Sometimes A Great Notion, by Ken Kesey. It caught me at just the right time as a teenager, when I was reading science fiction and modern literature and planning on living in the future. In some ways, the future I got to turned out more like this than like the science fiction. Funny how these things work out.

[Cole Younger]

Defining oneself by some arbitrarily drawn borders created a few hundred years ago seems a poor way to go through life. It’s the root of all the “us vs them” bullshit that has turned this country into a poor excuse for y.

Lots of people saying things like that but nobody ever leaves.

Yes, comfort and fear are a nice recipe for unwillingness to move and see the state/country/world. It’s a convenient excuse to never have to have your notions challenged or interact with “others”.

I’m thankful everyday that I moved a lot as a kid and experienced many places and many people.

Are you speaking of me specifically? Because I've seen more of the world and this country than has the average person. I purposely put myself in situations where I'm not comfortable which has a lot to do with my ongoing participation here and as a result I fear damn few things.

[Zip City]

No, I’m speaking to the problems of people who generally associate themselves with small geographic areas

[Zip City]

"The extreme and deliberate provincialism of the narrator is at once funny and scary, romantic and verging on insane. However one takes it – and the deeper implications of the song’s fetish for continuity at any cost are certainly disturbing – “Never Gonna Change” has something crucial to say about the human temperament. Nothing stirs the blood like someone from the outside looking in, telling a community its customs and values are wrongheaded. From the twin scourges of Brexit and Trump, the consequences of doing so are manifold in our contemporary politics. What to do about this dilemma is perhaps the central question at the heart of the Truckers’ fascinating, complicated catalog."

Thought this was apropos of recent discussions here.

[Swamp]

No, WWCD. I enjoy some of it. But there is something g inherently ridiculous to me about the scene.

For sure. Not into all that fruity stuff either. I love Mexican beer but no lime please.

[Tequila Cowboy]

No, WWCD. I enjoy some of it. But there is something g inherently ridiculous to me about the scene.

Craft beer is no different than "craft" anything be it beer, fine spirits, coffee, food, vinyl collecting or even weed in this brave new world where such things exist. Do connoisseurs of such things sometimes get a bit much in their praise of them? Sure, I've always tried not to as someone who always enjoyed all of the things I mentioned (I no longer drink or partake in weed but did enjoy both) but sometimes people use these things as a means of division and that sucks. I'm talking about the aficionados and the detractors here. There is enough to divide us to worry whether or not someone agrees with you on what type of coffee or beer you drink. These would be good places for everyone to let that divisiveness go. If we can't start to live and let live on those trivial matters we'll never come close to tackling the real tricky stuff.

[John A Arkansawyer]

No, WWCD. I enjoy some of it. But there is something g inherently ridiculous to me about the scene.

Are we talking about craft beer or the Grateful Dead now?

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

No, WWCD. I enjoy some of it. But there is something g inherently ridiculous to me about the scene.

Are we talking about craft beer or the Grateful Dead now?

Hey John, show us on the doll where Jimmy Two Feathers touched you with a kind veggie burrito