The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

[lotusamerica]

They truly have no fucking clue as a Party how to proceed. It's likely to end up being another instance of snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory. This year and in 2020.

Or an election stolen then everybody pretending it wasn't.

[Jonicont]

The baby boomers happened to exist at the same time as the hippies, so people somehow decided baby boomers shared hippie values. They never did. Hippies were today's progressives (with maybe less small-mindedness), never the mainstream, despite how we like to think of the Woodstock era. The baby boomers were greedy from the start as a generation - they didn't change when they got older. Following after "the greatest generation" that certainly had some high points, but didn't really live up to the hype either - Japanese internment camps, lynching of black people and widespread oppression, uncaring about the plight of the Jews and European populace in general - joining the action only after we were attacked, riding into the fight against the Nazis in the last few years and ultimately being a player in defeating them, but not the only or even most important, killing Japanese citizens with atom bombs when the war was essentially over anyway, then constructing a myth that we saved the world. We ain't what we've cracked ourselves up to be.

And Andrew Cuomo will be pilloried for the rest of his life for speaking the truth (for once in his life)

[beantownbubba]

riding into the fight against the Nazis in the last few years and ultimately being a player in defeating them, but not the only or even most important, killing Japanese citizens with atom bombs when the war was essentially over anyway, then constructing a myth that we saved the world. We ain't what we've cracked ourselves up to be.

I assume the "most important" is a reference to the Soviet Union. If not, I'd be very curious to know who you're referring to. No doubt the Soviet contribution to the war effort has been downplayed in the West (particularly in the immediate post-war years) but I don't see how the USSR wins the war w/out the US entering. As for the war against the Japanese, I don't see how you can say the war was "essentially over" when not even dropping an atomic bomb on Hiroshima was enough to convince the Japanese to surrender. As for "saving the world," that's a funny phrase capable of lots of interpretations, but it's hard to argue that the US did not remake the world after WWII and it did so in a way never before attempted much less accomplished in the history of the world. For all the self-interest involved and for all the ways in which the effort fell short of perfection, millions and millions of people, especially in Japan and Germany, have lived lives that were unimaginable in 1945 and which would not have happened if the USA had not done what it did.

[pearlbeer]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/senate-go ... t?ref=home


Now they are after one of our own....

[beantownbubba]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/senate-go ... t?ref=home


Now they are after one of our own....

Language is always evolving. I guess "unhinged" now means "disagreeing w/ me."

[cortez the killer]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/senate-go ... t?ref=home


Now they are after one of our own....

Language is always evolving. I guess "unhinged" now means "disagreeing w/ me."

That, or a prime example of psychological projection.

[Tequila Cowboy]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/senate-go ... t?ref=home


Now they are after one of our own....

Language is always evolving. I guess "unhinged" now means "disagreeing w/ me."

Jason's response from the stage last night: ""I feel so hinged, for the first time in my life I'm hinged. This is as hinged as I get...I'm hinged as hell!"

[beantownbubba]

Frank Bruni on Melania Trump as imbedded agent provocateur or maybe stealth bomb:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/opin ... e=Homepage

Who knows? Could be true. Or not. But much more fun to think it is. Plus w/ her own bed at home and when they travel, she gives new meaning to the term imbedded.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

Paulie M convicted on 8 counts

[lotusamerica]

It was an allied effort of USSR, Britain, France and US. USSR contributed by far the most toward the victory in lives lost and lives taken, but without US industry and finishing off, things could have turned out differently. Churchill/Great Britain was a necessary component and France gets little credit but was important as well. "Saving the world" just really means we give ourselves credit while not acknowledging much that we were a part of a network of allies.

I'll back down from the Japan comment, although it's arguable whether their holding out could have lasted much longer - yet I admit I'm not sure Truman could have known that with much certainty at the time.

The Marshall Plan was both very good and quite flawed. It was good for western Europe, but surely did little favor for the Poles or the millions of Eastern and Southeastern Europeans it left under harsh communist rule for the next 40+ years, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict carries on, but what I meant to refer to is the advent of the American philosophy of exceptionalism, which remains destructive to this day.

It's not that we haven't done many good things, it's that we've also done bad things, neglected to do good things, and are not really at the top of many lists of quality outside of unbridled capitalism. That's the "ain't what we cracked ourselves up to be."

riding into the fight against the Nazis in the last few years and ultimately being a player in defeating them, but not the only or even most important, killing Japanese citizens with atom bombs when the war was essentially over anyway, then constructing a myth that we saved the world. We ain't what we've cracked ourselves up to be.

I assume the "most important" is a reference to the Soviet Union. If not, I'd be very curious to know who you're referring to. No doubt the Soviet contribution to the war effort has been downplayed in the West (particularly in the immediate post-war years) but I don't see how the USSR wins the war w/out the US entering. As for the war against the Japanese, I don't see how you can say the war was "essentially over" when not even dropping an atomic bomb on Hiroshima was enough to convince the Japanese to surrender. As for "saving the world," that's a funny phrase capable of lots of interpretations, but it's hard to argue that the US did not remake the world after WWII and it did so in a way never before attempted much less accomplished in the history of the world. For all the self-interest involved and for all the ways in which the effort fell short of perfection, millions and millions of people, especially in Japan and Germany, have lived lives that were unimaginable in 1945 and which would not have happened if the USA had not done what it did.

[chuckrh]

forgive me for posing this question. i'll probably be damned to eternal torment for this. how long do you think it will take the idiots (including potidots) to propose this? i'm betting that if the worse happens (a second term), this will be proposed in seriousness by some demented f*ck.

[beantownbubba]

The Marshall Plan was both very good and quite flawed. It was good for western Europe, but surely did little favor for the Poles or the millions of Eastern and Southeastern Europeans it left under harsh communist rule for the next 40+ years, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict carries on, but what I meant to refer to is the advent of the American philosophy of exceptionalism, which remains destructive to this day.

The USSR and the Soviet satellite states (i.e. Eastern Europe) were invited to participate in the Marshall Plan and chose not to for their own reasons. I'm not sure what the Israel-Palestinian clusterfuck has to do w/ the Marshall Plan.

I now get your overriding point that American exceptionalism is an extremely flawed view/belief which has caused, and continues to cause, significant harm in both the US and the wider world. Can't argue w/ that.

[lotusamerica]

The Israel situation wasn't directly related to the Marshall Plan, though Truman did sell out the Palestinians in the end to establish Israel in order to get electoral support, over the objection of the rest of the US government and, importantly, Marshall himself, who turned against Truman over it.

I'm sure you're not suggesting the people of Poland, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia or other Soviet Bloc countries had a real choice. Their governments were already being controlled by the Soviets, and the people under the governments had no say at all. And the US didn't make it easy, demanding they change their political structure even to be provided with food in starvation conditions, allowing the USSR to cement their influence even more by providing food and necessary goods.

Anyway, all I really wanted to say is the tailspin timeline of 50 years (I fully admit that I haven't yet read the book, only articles about it and reviews) may make sense from the perspective of the white, middle class that's been decimated by the rise of first the rich and then the super-rich, yet there are a lot of people who never benefited from either the economic or institutional benefits of the country. So it seems to me what's really happened is that the white, middle class is no longer protected from the same forces that people below or outside of that group have always had to deal with. The more specific point is related to the theme that the baby boomers sold out the dream, but I don't think they ever really supported the dream for anyone but themselves anyway, and the generation before didn't really much either. I'm sure his arguments are much more complex than that, but I just question the theme that "things were good before" vs. "things were good for people like me before" which I think would be more accurate.

The Marshall Plan was both very good and quite flawed. It was good for western Europe, but surely did little favor for the Poles or the millions of Eastern and Southeastern Europeans it left under harsh communist rule for the next 40+ years, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict carries on, but what I meant to refer to is the advent of the American philosophy of exceptionalism, which remains destructive to this day.

The USSR and the Soviet satellite states (i.e. Eastern Europe) were invited to participate in the Marshall Plan and chose not to for their own reasons. I'm not sure what the Israel-Palestinian clusterfuck has to do w/ the Marshall Plan.

I now get your overriding point that American exceptionalism is an extremely flawed view/belief which has caused, and continues to cause, significant harm in both the US and the wider world. Can't argue w/ that.

[beantownbubba]

Max Boot in today's WaPo:

"The voters of the United States must now say to this Congress what Oliver Cromwell said to the Rump Parliament in 1653: “Ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government. . . . Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation. You were deputed here by the people to get grievances redressed, are yourselves become the greatest grievance. . . . Go, get you out! Make haste! . . . In the name of God, go!”

[Clams]

Max Boot in today's WaPo:

"The voters of the United States must now say to this Congress what Oliver Cromwell said to the Rump Parliament in 1653: “Ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government. . . . Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation. You were deputed here by the people to get grievances redressed, are yourselves become the greatest grievance. . . . Go, get you out! Make haste! . . . In the name of God, go!”

Oliver Cromwell said that? I always thought it was cortez.

[Jonicont]

Max Boot in today's WaPo:

"The voters of the United States must now say to this Congress what Oliver Cromwell said to the Rump Parliament in 1653: “Ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government. . . . Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation. You were deputed here by the people to get grievances redressed, are yourselves become the greatest grievance. . . . Go, get you out! Make haste! . . . In the name of God, go!”

Oliver Cromwell said that? I always thought it was cortez.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

Max Boot in today's WaPo:

"The voters of the United States must now say to this Congress what Oliver Cromwell said to the Rump Parliament in 1653: “Ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government. . . . Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation. You were deputed here by the people to get grievances redressed, are yourselves become the greatest grievance. . . . Go, get you out! Make haste! . . . In the name of God, go!”

Oliver Cromwell said that? I always thought it was cortez.

It was Oliver Platt

[John A Arkansawyer]

This just in...

Sen. Hatch Says Trump Allegations Not Serious Enough That Scales Should Fall From Eyes Revealing What Madness We Have Begotten

“Simply put, there is at present insufficient evidence against the Trump administration to justify the tearing of blindfolds from Republican eyes at this point, and therefore, we remain safe from gazing in horror at the maelstrom of sheer insanity that we ourselves have loosed upon the world,” said Hatch, claiming it would be woefully premature for Congress to commit themselves to any course of action in which they might glimpse the unveiled face of the ravening madness vomited into existence by them and them alone.

[Flea]

This just in...

Sen. Hatch Says Trump Allegations Not Serious Enough That Scales Should Fall From Eyes Revealing What Madness We Have Begotten

“Simply put, there is at present insufficient evidence against the Trump administration to justify the tearing of blindfolds from Republican eyes at this point, and therefore, we remain safe from gazing in horror at the maelstrom of sheer insanity that we ourselves have loosed upon the world,” said Hatch, claiming it would be woefully premature for Congress to commit themselves to any course of action in which they might glimpse the unveiled face of the ravening madness vomited into existence by them and them alone.

We live in fucked-up times when this shit sounds plausible. I thought the Onion had folded for lack of satirizable material.

[Zip City]

This is the worst timeline

[beantownbubba]

Who knew that negotiating denuclearization agreements with rogue states could be so hard? Who knew that getting adversaries to cooperate w/ you in said negotiations would be so hard after you slap hundreds of billions of dollars worth of tariffs on their imports to the US?

At the end of the day when you hack through all the bullshit, all the "trump derangement syndrome," the lies, the use of the highest office in the land for personal enrichment and all the rest of the emotional issues, hot buttons and divisiveness whether earned or not, you're still left with this:

A. Bullying is not negotiating and when it comes to negotiating w/ actual powerful people, institutions and countries as opposed to tradespeople scuffling to make a living Trump is a lousy negotiator.
B. You don't have to be a genius to be president; in fact in many ways it's preferable that one not be so smart as to be tempted to do it all one's self. But the one thing you absolutely cannot be is stupid and Trump simply does not have the intellectual capacity necessary to be president. NB: To those who argue that he is actually suffering from a physical or mental condition that affects his intellectual capacity I say it doesn't matter: If he doesn't have the goods, he doesn't have the goods and he should not be president. Needless to say, Melania is no Nancy Reagan and Pence is no Dick Cheney so there's no there there wherever you choose to look.

Yeah, I suppose those are opinions but speaking of my opinion, the facts backing up those opinions seem pretty incontestable to me (except as to whether Pence might rise to Cheney's level; I suppose that could be arguable. I suspect that Melania is actually pretty smart but she doesn't have the toolkit or, I suspect, the inclination, to play a behind the scenes Rasputin).

[Zip City]

You can't be a "great negotiator" when every situation is viewed as a zero-sum game. Trump doesn't want to compromise with China, he wants to "win". When every negotiation HAS to have a "winner" and "loser", nothing good will happen

[John A Arkansawyer]

I finally figured out one of the Great Mysteries of TrumpWorld. It was a simple typo anyone, even the President Of This United States, could make, which I can now interpret. Here's the original tweet, in full:

Despite the negative press covfefe,

Now here's my corrected version:

Despite the negative press kayfabe,

He wrote covfefe when he meant kayfabe. It's just that simple.

[Zip City]

I'm seeing a lot of praise for McCain's town hall moment with the woman calling Obama an "Arab". I don't get it. In my opinion, what he said to her was the bare minimum that a decent human being would do. He said just enough to change the subject, and that's it. He did nothing to change the GOP narrative around the legitimacy of Obama's birth, plus he selected a VP candidate with the sole purpose of currying favor with this exact kind of racist person.

[John A Arkansawyer]

I'm seeing a lot of praise for McCain's town hall moment with the woman calling Obama an "Arab". I don't get it. In my opinion, what he said to her was the bare minimum that a decent human being would do. He said just enough to change the subject, and that's it. He did nothing to change the GOP narrative around the legitimacy of Obama's birth, plus he selected a VP candidate with the sole purpose of currying favor with this exact kind of racist person.

He did it in favor of a guy he was locked into a winner-take-all contest with, and it was a bit more than a subject change. It was a direct contradiction.

When I was living in Atlanta, I had this ancient Olds Cutlass with the parking brakes out and the parking gear ineffectual. Fortunately, I'd clipped the passenger side mirror off leaving my apartment one fine day, so I used that to chock the back wheels. But one day I forgot to chock those damn wheels, and it drifted across the parking garage and did a few hundred dollars damage to someone else's car. I left a note, of course, and she called me later that day. She was so grateful! She just couldn't believe I'd actually admitted to damaging her car and was writing her a check to fix it.

I was happy she was happy, but it sure seemed like a low bar to clear. I don't know if it was the "bare minimum a decent human being would do", but it sure wasn't much, and it sounded like I'd hung the moon. So I get your point.

[beantownbubba]

I wonder what, if anything, Mitch McConnell thinks as he observes all the pomp, circumstance and heartfelt emotion and respect coming from all corners in tribute to John McCain. Does McConnell realize that his death will essentially go unremarked outside of his family and maybe Kentucky? Does he care? Does he understand that a significant portion of the reaction to McCain's death across the political spectrum is the realization that that's it; there is nobody and nothing left but sleaze and slime in the Senate; no statesmen, nobody w/ any credibility, no person that can generate any level of respect and get others to listen to him/her simply by being who s/he is?

[Tequila Cowboy]

Who makes a spreadsheet about their impending doom, and even if you foolishly do something like that how in the hell does it get leaked? (not that I'm complaining)

VOX: Here’s House Republicans’ list of all the Trump scandals they’re covering up

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

Looks like the (formerly North) Vietnamese paid more sincere and respectful tribute to McCain than did Donnie

[beantownbubba]

Meanwhile, down in the trenches, where things eventually get very real and very personal...

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... tions.html

Voters actually voting for what they do (and don't) believe!! It really shouldn't take 4 day school weeks, teacher shortages and 9 figure tax breaks for energy companies to get people's attention, but if that's what it takes, eventually that's what's gonna happen, as a bunch of Republican state legislators recently discovered in Oklahoma. The governor, who is up for re-election this fall, is cruising along w/ a 19% approval rating. We'll see how that translates into votes, but it should be interesting.

The parallels to Trump's decision to cancel raises for federal works in the face of a deficit created by gifting tax breaks to the wealthy strikes me as remarkably similar in so many ways. We'll find out whether he will pay a similar price.

[Iowan]

Meanwhile, down in the trenches, where things eventually get very real and very personal...

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... tions.html

Voters actually voting for what they do (and don't) believe!! It really shouldn't take 4 day school weeks, teacher shortages and 9 figure tax breaks for energy companies to get people's attention, but if that's what it takes, eventually that's what's gonna happen, as a bunch of Republican state legislators recently discovered in Oklahoma. The governor, who is up for re-election this fall, is cruising along w/ a 19% approval rating. We'll see how that translates into votes, but it should be interesting.

The parallels to Trump's decision to cancel raises for federal works in the face of a deficit created by gifting tax breaks to the wealthy strikes me as remarkably similar in so many ways. We'll find out whether he will pay a similar price.

I've seen a similar switch in outlook from guys I know that work for the State, City, or County here in Iowa. They voted heavily Republican in the last election cycle mostly on the gun issue, and are now absolutely furious about how the Republicans have gutted pensions, broken collective bargaining, and flat out under funded every kind of public works. A guy I know who voted for Trump has been routinely posting on Facebook in support of the Democrat running for governor. Our Republican US congressman is considered one of the most likely incumbents to lose, to a 29 year old woman.

As one buddy put it "I'll wait another week for my coyote gun (AR-15) if it means I keep my pension and union". It'll be interesting to see how this translates into votes, but I've found that people tend to vote on certain ideological issues when they're comfortable, and when the other side turns on their ways and means, things change. The flip of this was Obama being initially very popular where I live, and his popularity dramatically falling off when people's insurance premiums tripled over a 3 year period. The effects of the ACA were one of the biggest factors in my areas Obama to Trump flip, as misguided as that blame was - it all fell squarely on the Democrats.