The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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lotusamerica
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by lotusamerica »

I was only surprised that more Republican senators didn't thumbs down the legislation. However, at this point in the ,Republican party there is more fear of losing a primary than losing an election so I would guess that factored in heavily. A few of them are up shit creek right now. But moderates in tight states who stayed quiet have to be feeling pretty good right now as they were headed to the dustbin next election if it would've passed. Obamacare is flawed and relatively unliked, but taking it away for virtually nothing but politics and money would've sunk several senators and likely some house members as well. Might've been the best thing for Democrats had it passed and so I don't entirely rule out BTB's suspicion about McConnell.

As to elections, the most obviously promising thing the Democrats could do in the future is go with the candidate who sparks the most people. Sanders might have gone down against Trump but it damn sure would have been an election about something - which is what the Democrats desperately need as they stand for the rights of the oppressed (call it identity politics if you will) but that basically only gets them the oppressed and the liberals, who together don't number enough to win elections. Obama was a historic victory but people who came out to vote then came because they were inspired, and Bush had just presided over a major economic downturn and Obama talked tough on holding people responsible right until he got into office. Sanders is the only one on the scene who could come close to inspiring people the way Obama did, and nobody anyone here had mentioned will cut it either (though I like the idea of seeing Wonky nice guy Franken in the mix). People talk Booker up but he has a lot of proving to do, and as much as I like Warren's ideas she does not have what it takes to win a Presdiential election. Biden might have had a shot but he missed it and can't come back again now as he'll always be seen as the guy who threw in the towel and walked away and you can't come back from that. The Democrats are wandering around lost for the most part - it should be the easiest thing for them right now to be rehabilitating the party and message and it's like they just don't even have a clue.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

lotusamerica wrote:as they stand for the rights of the oppressed (call it identity politics if you will)
I think that frames the question very well: Is "identity politics" about protecting the oppressed and spreading opportunity or is it about handing out government candy on the basis of questionable categorizations while creating artificial barriers and conflicts between/among groups? The answer is partly in the eye of the beholder, partly on the tongues of demagogues and partly a reflection of serious differences in approach/philosophy.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

lotusamerica wrote:The Democrats are wandering around lost for the most part - it should be the easiest thing for them right now to be rehabilitating the party and message and it's like they just don't even have a clue.
Quoted for truth.
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lotusamerica
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by lotusamerica »

beantownbubba wrote:
lotusamerica wrote:as they stand for the rights of the oppressed (call it identity politics if you will)
I think that frames the question very well: Is "identity politics" about protecting the oppressed and spreading opportunity or is it about handing out government candy on the basis of questionable categorizations while creating artificial barriers and conflicts between/among groups? The answer is partly in the eye of the beholder, partly on the tongues of demagogues and partly a reflection of serious differences in approach/philosophy.
Ah, yes, well I don't imagine it's an either/or question, but there are some random points that come to mind for me.

Before those points it's important first to say that all politicians attempt to curry favor with their constituents and backers through pork and other means, even the politicians who are as close to libertarian as it comes. Rarely are people offended when they are the constituents, and hypocrisy about others' receiving pork is rampant. Since other than the president, federal politicians represent geographical regions, the pork they support tends to be geographical in nature, and then of course (particularly in the house) those different geographical regions are made up of different social/identity groups, so it's easy to claim identity politics when if you factored out geographical distribution of the different groups, you'd probably find much less predictive power left. Politicians who represent more right-wing regions tend to find pork in military, prison and related industries, and politicians who represent primarily left districts tend to find pork in social and (at least in the past) educational programs. But pork is pork and it is primarily delivered to the people who are the majority of voters in any region than ideologically-based. The first rule of politics is get re-elected.

Okay, so onto the issues:

1) At this point in the game, the Republicans are not only as or more focused on identity politics than Democrats, they're more successful at it. It was probably the main overarching theme of the 2016 presidential election. Who were the groups, primarily rural and small town white people, ranging from relatively poor to upper middle class. What were the issues - feeling unheard and oppressed by the past 8 years of the left purportedly favoring minorities, urbans, women, and LGBTQ folks. "Make America Great Again" of course has multiple possible meanings, but the dog whistle one is "take us back to a time when things were more normal" and by "normal" it means white and heterosexual, with men having the top dog position in all societal matters. Someone could argue with me on that, but it's a discussion I'd be happy to have.

2) This masqueraded in part as a "small government philosophy" with the Dems/liberals cast as bureaucratic overlords extending their reach into all aspects of your life and digging even deeper in your pockets. And some really mean that. Don't tread on me and all. Of course, rarely do those beliefs correspond to efforts toward non-governmental actions to alter what is still a highly tilted society (again toward white, heterosexual men) and instead they often do correspond to a strong unwillingness to even consider the issues of a still-tilted society issues as real, or of consequence, or as unfixable outside of governmental efforts. But of course for most "small government" does not really mean small government, it means stop using government funds to help/support minorities and lazy people. Otherwise, it would carry along with it a push for a smaller military, police force, prison system, and drug war, which are decidedly not parts of small government philosophy for most people who hold it (some here and some among my friends and even a few politicians otherwise).

3) "While creating artificial barriers and conflicts between/among groups." I won't say this doesn't happen on the left (though again it seems a primary theme among the right - just look at that recent NRA commercial), but I will ask anyone to try to specifically identify how this is a strong theme on the left (with something outside of just the right-wing press saying so). I've heard many say it, particularly many pin it on Obama, and the main thing I have heard people specifically upset about is when he came out and said "that could have been my son" about Trayvon Martin. Obama was left-center on many social issues and to some degree on law enforcement issues, and center to right-center (though the far right R party couldn't or wouldn't see it) on issues of economy and military. He hardly was a roaring voice on minority issues, and surely many feel let down on that because other than healthcare, and easing stigmatization on some other issues which allowed gay rights to advance and opened the door to state implementation of recreational marijuana, Obama didn't really do much to advance social causes. Now in the wake of a three decade march to the right, Obama seemed in some ways like quite a contrast, but take his presidency back to the 1960s and compare it to either Kennedy or Johnson, and it's easy to see that he was quite a centrist and status quo politician overall. The somewhat big exception of course being healthcare, but even on that front he advanced a program that was at most moderately left of center, despite the howls of the right. He left universal healthcare, single party payer, medicare-for-all, and even other less powerful options on the table without even trying to advance them. Now you can say he got what he could on that front, and if you're in favor of some centralized form of at least health insurance (even if not health care), that's a lot more than anyone has achieved since medicare was started, so it's still something worth fighting over even if it is a frankenstein hodge podge approach that needs serious tweaking in order to even survive let alone thrive.

Okay, random and not even entirely on point, but gotta run for now

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Iowan »

Conservative media has done a masterful job of painting the entire left as Evergreen State, and the left, as a group, hasn't been that effective in countering that absurdity.

A lot of what makes these things so frustrating, is that they're mostly matters of perception that aren't based in reality. The right have been masters of warping perception, and until the left can effectively counter, it will continue to be hamstrung.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

I can't deny that there are certain similarities between demagoguery and its cousin race baiting on the one hand and identity politics on the other. But I don't think they're the same thing. Whether the differences actually matter in any substantive way is a good question to which I haven't given any thought so don't have an immediate answer.

I would have gone pretty far down a list before I got to Obama as a representative of identity politics. Obama was indeed largely a centrist on those matters and very much like JFK in leading from behnd and testing the waters quite carefully before making any potentially controversial statement, e.g. on gay rights. As with the nature of demagoguery v. the nature of identity politics, I agree that there are certain similarities between garden variety pork like military spending and bridges to nowhere v. benefits distributed on the basis of group identity. But that doesn't make them the same. One important similarity is that there are plenty of problems with how both distribution methods work.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Mr. B »

I haven't seen this posted here, so I figured I'd link to this clip of Al Franken describing why he is a democrat. Pretty compelling stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msg6e4viI4I

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Cubfan06 »

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ansactions

This seems like a big deal. Always follow the money.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

Cubfan06 wrote:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ansactions

This seems like a big deal. Always follow the money.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

Zip City wrote:
Cubfan06 wrote:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ansactions

This seems like a big deal. Always follow the money.
Mueller will be fired by weeks end
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

The “Russia scandal:” What’s it all mean? Danged if I know but here’s an attempt to put together pieces of the puzzle in a way that makes sense to me. If it’s helpful to some of you, too, so much the better.

The media and pundits do seem to have trouble distinguishing the important elements and developments of this story from the mundane. That’s not surprising since there’s a lot more unknown than known at this point and the different narrative elements are tangled and confusing. But by merging (or ignoring) different threads of the story I think they do us all a disservice. As I attempt to make sense of things, I see 3 different parts that together make up the whole of the "Russia scandal" and while they obviously overlap, they only make sense to me when understood separately. In ascending order of importance, they are:

1. Possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian entities or individuals intended to spread dirt on Hillary Clinton, her allies and her campaign.
2. Russia's direct attempts to influence the result of the American 2016 presidential election.
3. Attempts by Russia to assert on-going influence at the highest levels of American government by having some level of control over people in important government roles.

With respect to #1, obviously the point of spreading dirt, whether true or false, factoids or classic spy “disinformation,” was to influence the election. But it seems to me it stands as a distinct and relatively unimportant element of that effort. Yes, it matters and may be criminal if members of the Trump family or campaign officials either sought or accepted non-public information from an adversarial foreign power and if true it’s certainly indicative of the character of the individuals involved (not that we need any more evidence of that) but in and of itself, it doesn’t carry the weight some people are putting on it and because of that, it has left the whole “Russia issue” open to charges of “typical Beltway partisan politics.” If one were disinclined to believe the Trump troops capable of criminal behavior, I can understand that these allegations might seem like small potatoes. Without more solid, express connections between the alleged collusion and specific damaging acts that influenced the election or which demonstrate control by Russia over specific individuals for nefarious purposes the behavior at issue apparently doesn’t strike at least some people as any different from your basic opposition research or partisan blog report or facebook trolling. While that seems disingenuous to me, the focus on colluding to disseminate negative information as a distinct “scandal” creates this opening.

By contrast, when it comes to attempting to directly interfere w/ the election, we KNOW this happened. It's been confirmed by multiple credible government agencies and representatives who have had access to the facts. This is an incredibly serious incursion on American sovereignty. If war is diplomacy by other means, than influencing elections is war by other means. I don't understand why every American isn't completely outraged and freaked out by this and have 2 tentative explanations: Because we don't know exactly what the Russians did or how successful they were and because some of their actions appear to be the kind of low level internet bullshit that anybody could have done (and many did) the whole episode doesn't project as being as serious as it was; and because this is somewhat confused in the public's mind with Trump campaign "collusion" it is dismissible by some as partisan politics.
If the latter explanation is correct Democrats and major media would serve us and themselves better by de-emphasizing the focus on the alleged collusion in spreading dirt and instead concentrating on what amounts to Russia's invasion of America. “Interfering” or “influencing” the election can take many forms, from facebook trolling to manipulating voting machines to who knows what else, but we, the general public, don’t know exactly what the Russians did or attempted to do. I suspect that many people who dismiss the “trolling” or “opposition research” aspects of this campaign would be much more troubled by evidence of (a) a highly coordinated and directed attack by official Russian state agencies or representatives and (b) the use of other more menacing, efficient or sophisticated methods to carry out the attack.

Attempting to gain continuing influence on or control over senior American officials and perhaps succeeding in that effort is the most serious allegation by far. It is the stuff of nightmares and political thrillers and, if true, it's what ties everything together. It is not hard to imagine a scenario in which the Russians set out to gain influence/control over an influential American, whether through blackmail, financial incentives or coercion* or other methods; lucking into that influential American running for President; having obtained that influence over a person with a chance to become President, intentionally influencing the election so they'd have control over a President and his minions rather than over a buffoonish failing real estate developer and celebrity with a dicey financial future*; and having achieved the election of that influential American, using their control to direct (or at least impact) American policy and decision-making in ways favorable to Russia. The idea of Trump, w/out aides or translators spending an hour at the G-20 summit w/ Putin who was accompanied by his translator is both seriously scary and well in keeping with this scenario.

*This scenario also ties into Trump's refusal to release his tax returns if one assumes or guesses that (i) his financial situation was a lot more precarious than he portrayed; (ii) he was and is literally and figuratively in debt to the Russians; and (iii) his businesses and their potential success or failure is closely tied to his connections to Russian individuals and businesses.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

If you want to be terrified read this piece from The New Republic but then, as an antidote, read Seth Abramson's extremely well thought out analysis (maybe not directly to the piece but addressing the same concerns).

We’re on the Brink of an Authoritarian Crisis

Professor Abramson's take:

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson

All of it is concerning though. The President of the United States of America has no respect for the rule of law. That trumps (goddamn you orange asshole for making that word a pun) any obstruction charge or even, when you get right down to it, any collusion claims. We are on the edge of an abyss and our systems will be tested. That is certain now.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Iowan »

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/20/us/minnea ... index.html

I find it fascinating how quiet the conversation on this is.

Well, more revelatory than fascinating. The right will refuse to condemn a police shooting, even though it was a white woman killed by a black Muslim male and the left is afraid to condemn a black Muslim. So, at least in the social media circles, crickets.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Iowan »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:If you want to be terrified read this piece from The New Republic but then, as an antidote, read Seth Abramson's extremely well thought out analysis (maybe not directly to the piece but addressing the same concerns).

We’re on the Brink of an Authoritarian Crisis

Professor Abramson's take:

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson

All of it is concerning though. The President of the United States of America has no respect for the rule of law. That trumps (goddamn you orange asshole for making that word a pun) any obstruction charge or even, when you get right down to it, any collusion claims. We are on the edge of an abyss and our systems will be tested. That is certain now.
I'm not going to do it. There's nothing I, or anyone else, can do other than vote and that time will be here soon.

That's where the real test will be. I think it's almost certain that Trump will lose the 2020 election. Will he accept the results? What happens if he doesn't? I've said it before, but I think that tribalism is so fucking ingrained right now that I fear some of our institutions (particularly the military) will side with the President if they (the institution in question) have a conservative majority.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

Iowan wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/20/us/minnea ... index.html

I find it fascinating how quiet the conversation on this is.

Well, more revelatory than fascinating. The right will refuse to condemn a police shooting, even though it was a white woman killed by a black Muslim male and the left is afraid to condemn a black Muslim. So, at least in the social media circles, crickets.
While they certainly aren't a major news player, the Kinja sites (Root, Fusion, et al.) have been all over this story from the start
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Iowan »

whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:
Iowan wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/20/us/minnea ... index.html

I find it fascinating how quiet the conversation on this is.

Well, more revelatory than fascinating. The right will refuse to condemn a police shooting, even though it was a white woman killed by a black Muslim male and the left is afraid to condemn a black Muslim. So, at least in the social media circles, crickets.
While they certainly aren't a major news player, the Kinja sites (Root, Fusion, et al.) have been all over this story from the start
The worst part about this shooting is that regardless of the outcome, it confirms one of two dangerous components of our society:

1) We're living in a police state where there is no accountability for law enforcement.

2) We only hold police accountable when the victim is white and the officer is a minority.

There's no good outcome. If he's held accountable, that's awesome. This guy pretty clearly committed an unlawful homicide. However, so have scores of other LEOs recently, and every one of them walked. The victims, of course, were minorities. The reason he'll get held accountable and others didn't will because of the A) the victim's skin color, and B) his own.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Iowan wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:If you want to be terrified read this piece from The New Republic but then, as an antidote, read Seth Abramson's extremely well thought out analysis (maybe not directly to the piece but addressing the same concerns).

We’re on the Brink of an Authoritarian Crisis

Professor Abramson's take:

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson

All of it is concerning though. The President of the United States of America has no respect for the rule of law. That trumps (goddamn you orange asshole for making that word a pun) any obstruction charge or even, when you get right down to it, any collusion claims. We are on the edge of an abyss and our systems will be tested. That is certain now.
I'm not going to do it. There's nothing I, or anyone else, can do other than vote and that time will be here soon.

That's where the real test will be. I think it's almost certain that Trump will lose the 2020 election. Will he accept the results? What happens if he doesn't? I've said it before, but I think that tribalism is so fucking ingrained right now that I fear some of our institutions (particularly the military) will side with the President if they (the institution in question) have a conservative majority.
$20 says he doesn't make it to 2020. I say June 11, 2018 he either resigns or is forced out. Likely the former.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

Iowan wrote:
whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:
Iowan wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/20/us/minnea ... index.html

I find it fascinating how quiet the conversation on this is.

Well, more revelatory than fascinating. The right will refuse to condemn a police shooting, even though it was a white woman killed by a black Muslim male and the left is afraid to condemn a black Muslim. So, at least in the social media circles, crickets.
While they certainly aren't a major news player, the Kinja sites (Root, Fusion, et al.) have been all over this story from the start
The worst part about this shooting is that regardless of the outcome, it confirms one of two dangerous components of our society:

1) We're living in a police state where there is no accountability for law enforcement.

2) We only hold police accountable when the victim is white and the officer is a minority.

There's no good outcome. If he's held accountable, that's awesome. This guy pretty clearly committed an unlawful homicide. However, so have scores of other LEOs recently, and every one of them walked. The victims, of course, were minorities. The reason he'll get held accountable and others didn't will because of the A) the victim's skin color, and B) his own.
http://www.theroot.com/attorney-justine ... 1797113109

so many different levels of unpacking required from this statement from Robert Bennett, the lawyer representing Damond's family:

Calling Damond “the most innocent victim” of a police shooting he has ever seen, he quickly added, “I’m not saying Philando wasn’t innocent, too, or that Frank Baker wasn’t innocent. But here is someone who called the police and was trying to stop someone from being hurt … and ends up being shot in her pajamas.”
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:$20 says he doesn't make it to 2020. I say June 11, 2018 he either resigns or is forced out. Likely the former.
Jerry help us all if he makes it to 2020 :roll:
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:
Iowan wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:If you want to be terrified read this piece from The New Republic but then, as an antidote, read Seth Abramson's extremely well thought out analysis (maybe not directly to the piece but addressing the same concerns).

We’re on the Brink of an Authoritarian Crisis

Professor Abramson's take:

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson

All of it is concerning though. The President of the United States of America has no respect for the rule of law. That trumps (goddamn you orange asshole for making that word a pun) any obstruction charge or even, when you get right down to it, any collusion claims. We are on the edge of an abyss and our systems will be tested. That is certain now.
I'm not going to do it. There's nothing I, or anyone else, can do other than vote and that time will be here soon.

That's where the real test will be. I think it's almost certain that Trump will lose the 2020 election. Will he accept the results? What happens if he doesn't? I've said it before, but I think that tribalism is so fucking ingrained right now that I fear some of our institutions (particularly the military) will side with the President if they (the institution in question) have a conservative majority.
$20 says he doesn't make it to 2020. I say June 11, 2018 he either resigns or is forced out. Likely the former.
You give him that long? I think the train is moving too fast now. He's asking his advisers what the rules are for pardoning himself and his family. He sees that the end is near
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:$20 says he doesn't make it to 2020. I say June 11, 2018 he either resigns or is forced out. Likely the former.
Get the exact dates you have in mind--6/11/18 is a big deal for me, but I don't get its relevance here--and I'll take that bet. Easy money.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Zip City wrote:You give him that long? I think the train is moving too fast now. He's asking his advisers what the rules are for pardoning himself and his family. He sees that the end is near
Well I think he fires Mueller and I think it will take the Senate a month or two to either hire him back as a Special Prosecutor or someone else. I just can't see it going quicker than that.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Iowan »

whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:
Iowan wrote:
The worst part about this shooting is that regardless of the outcome, it confirms one of two dangerous components of our society:

1) We're living in a police state where there is no accountability for law enforcement.

2) We only hold police accountable when the victim is white and the officer is a minority.

There's no good outcome. If he's held accountable, that's awesome. This guy pretty clearly committed an unlawful homicide. However, so have scores of other LEOs recently, and every one of them walked. The victims, of course, were minorities. The reason he'll get held accountable and others didn't will because of the A) the victim's skin color, and B) his own.
http://www.theroot.com/attorney-justine ... 1797113109

so many different levels of unpacking required from this statement from Robert Bennett, the lawyer representing Damond's family:

Calling Damond “the most innocent victim” of a police shooting he has ever seen, he quickly added, “I’m not saying Philando wasn’t innocent, too, or that Frank Baker wasn’t innocent. But here is someone who called the police and was trying to stop someone from being hurt … and ends up being shot in her pajamas.”
She does have a point. This isn't someone who was interdicted for a crime. This was someone calling for help, who was then murdered.

That's a fact that folks who want to act like race had nothing to do with the outcome in police shooting cases will fixate on.


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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

Since Jeffie Sessions is so gung-ho about civil asset forfeiture, here's my fantasy

Image

Image
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Remember when the US Senate was called, without irony or snark and generally with admiration if not awe, "the greatest deliberative body in the world"? I think it's important to take a minute to recognize not only how dysfunctional the Senate has become but how what is now accepted as recently as a few years ago would have been literally inconceivable. Today the Senate is going to vote on whether to debate certain legislation, except that the people doing the voting have no idea (literally and in their own words) what legislation will be debated. If that passes they will then debate legislation of huge impact on individuals, institutions, the economy and the country that none of them has had time to read, consider, understand, analyze or seek advice about. The enormity of this perversion of our system astounds me but at least in today's papers seems barely worthy of comment.

Does anyone else have a sneaking suspicion that John McCain is not making such a determined effort to be present just to follow the party line, that he may surprise people with one or more of his votes as things unfold? I'm not saying it's going to happen, just that it seems more than remotely possible.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

I think it's pretty clear that Pres. Trump wants Jeff Sessions gone, right? Yet the man who rode the catch phrase "you're fired" to national prominence and eventually to the presidency seems somewhere between reluctant and unwilling to fire Sessions. Why? I assume it's because Trump & his advisors (presumably no longer including Jeff Sessions) fear the backlash of firing Sessions while a forced resignation will not bring the same level of outrage. But is that really it? Doesn't this charade of escalating insults and barbs directed at Sessions make Trump look ineffectual and impotent? It's hard to tell from my little cocoon, but aren't people asking each other "why doesn't the President just fire him?"
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

beantownbubba wrote:I think it's pretty clear that Pres. Trump wants Jeff Sessions gone, right? Yet the man who rode the catch phrase "you're fired" to national prominence and eventually to the presidency seems somewhere between reluctant and unwilling to fire Sessions. Why? I assume it's because Trump & his advisors (presumably no longer including Jeff Sessions) fear the backlash of firing Sessions while a forced resignation will not bring the same level of outrage. But is that really it? Doesn't this charade of escalating insults and barbs directed at Sessions make Trump look ineffectual and impotent? It's hard to tell from my little cocoon, but aren't people asking each other "why doesn't the President just fire him?"
Sessions has many friends in the Senate, and Trump's relationship with them is tenuous at best right now
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Zip City wrote:
beantownbubba wrote:I think it's pretty clear that Pres. Trump wants Jeff Sessions gone, right? Yet the man who rode the catch phrase "you're fired" to national prominence and eventually to the presidency seems somewhere between reluctant and unwilling to fire Sessions. Why? I assume it's because Trump & his advisors (presumably no longer including Jeff Sessions) fear the backlash of firing Sessions while a forced resignation will not bring the same level of outrage. But is that really it? Doesn't this charade of escalating insults and barbs directed at Sessions make Trump look ineffectual and impotent? It's hard to tell from my little cocoon, but aren't people asking each other "why doesn't the President just fire him?"
Sessions has many friends in the Senate, and Trump's relationship with them is tenuous at best right now
True.

Maybe it's just me, but if Sessions were my friend, I think I'd be a lot more pissed about this political torture, embarrassment and twisting in the wind than I would be about a straightforward firing. The direct message to all these senators (as opposed to how they feel about what Trump's saying/doing to Sessions) has to be "this could be you." I don't think I'd care for that very much either.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Zip City wrote:
beantownbubba wrote:I think it's pretty clear that Pres. Trump wants Jeff Sessions gone, right? Yet the man who rode the catch phrase "you're fired" to national prominence and eventually to the presidency seems somewhere between reluctant and unwilling to fire Sessions. Why? I assume it's because Trump & his advisors (presumably no longer including Jeff Sessions) fear the backlash of firing Sessions while a forced resignation will not bring the same level of outrage. But is that really it? Doesn't this charade of escalating insults and barbs directed at Sessions make Trump look ineffectual and impotent? It's hard to tell from my little cocoon, but aren't people asking each other "why doesn't the President just fire him?"
Sessions has many friends in the Senate, and Trump's relationship with them is tenuous at best right now
Yep, Zip's got it right. He's already not helping his case with the GOP in the Senate by the continuing attacks on Sessions and firing him would be one toke over the line sweet Jesus.

In other craziness Trump threatened to fire Tom Price, who was standing on the podium with him in front of the Boy Scouts yesterday, if the Health Care bill didn't pass. I feel sorry for these fuckers for about 5 seconds until I realize a) they are assholes and b) they jumped into the shark tank of their own accord and if you swim with the sharks you're likely to lose your pecker in the best case scenario. I think Session's pecker has been chewed off already.
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